Yesterday morning myself and my brother drove up to see Pip at WGT for general check ups, set ups, rolling roads, advice n stuff. Now......I new I was loosing water somewhere, did the usual AST tank cap, engine flush etc. Still had warning buzzer in my ear every now and again but carried on thinking positive!! Pip (top bloke by the way) said he would look at my car first, he takes my keys, walks over to my 93 rex, gets in, starts her up, 30 seconds later he turns her off, gets out, walked into reception and says "re-build time!!".....11000 mile old engine.....gutted! But as they say "S**t Happens!" going to save £700 by taking the engine out myself, hopefully next weekend. Looking up though it lasted the summer so now I can create the engine and engine bay of a show car. Also get her up to 400bhp, circa 320 was nice but what the hell! The good news is though my Bro`s car is running superbly (he did do a couple of things wrong when installing his boost controller and needed some plugs but Pip sorted all that out) hes running 315bhp at the fly, 293hp at the wheels, anyway just wanted to say I`m so happy his car is running sweet although mine isn`t!! .........Honest!.......:evillaugh
How did he know just buy starting it up if you were driving it about ok?
The smoke coming out of the exhaust matey, I hadn`t noticed it before, I had a pretty good idea anyway, just had to hear it from an expert to believe it.
Why has it only lasted 11K ???? :xconfused
surely you cant just turn a car on, listen and watch it for 30 seconds and go "rebuild time"......especially as the car is still running!
Freddy imported it with 6000 kilometers on new build (circa 4000 miles), Freddy told me he sold it to a guy who did less than 1000 miles in it before he sold it back to Freddy cuz he had no time to use it, then I bought it and have done around 6000 miles in it, the only thing I can think of is its been standing with no antifreeze in it and one of the edges on a casting has broken/rotted (Pip showed me on a casting he had)
Quote from: DLNsurely you cant just turn a car on, listen and watch it for 30 seconds and go "rebuild time"......especially as the car is still running!
You can when your name is Pip Gardner :Tongue1
Quote from: gsb876You can when your name is Pip Gardner :Tongue1
:eek: :) is he that good with the rotaries then?
From what I have read and heard!.........yes!
Quote from: DLN:eek: :) is he that good with the rotaries then?
When my car kinda died for no reason rang Pip for advice and put it this way by me putting my phone on the engine and turning it over Pip told the RAC dude exactly what to do and exactly what the problem was just from hearing the engine turning over :eek: And yes it started straight away !!!
And he has about 21yrs experience with rotaries, not cheap but deffo the best :Thumbs-up
Quote from: gsb876When my car kinda died for no reason rang Pip for advice and put it this way by me putting my phone on the engine and turning it over Pip told the RAC dude exactly what to do and exactly what the problem was just from hearing the engine turning over :eek: And yes it started straight away !!!
And he has about 21yrs experience with rotaries, not cheap but deffo the best :Thumbs-up
haha, i bet the RAC guy was impressed, and probably a little embarassed:o
Quote from: DLNhaha, i bet the RAC guy was impressed, and probably a little embarassed:o
He was cool as he told me the reason he came to my car particularly was because the call came out to attend a mazda rx7 and he came running to see it :Giggle but once the bonnet went up it was a case of no more smiles but confusion !!!! hence the call to Pip as the chap was stood there scratching his head :2Confused
Sound guy though and was asking who is this Pip character ???? :Giggle
Then again my engine bay was completely full and looked very complicated to the un-trained eye !!!! Sadly now sold :(
Yes, thats good of the RAC guy...... the funny thing is, you cant actually see the rotary engine can you, just all the ancillaries and the bloody big turbo....haha......
Lol @ Gurj\'s story!
I think Pip\'s a top bloke - he found out what was wrong with my 2nd tubbie in virtually no time at all & that included fixing another problem!
Sounds like porting time then R1dude. Hey Ric, you bought a pfc didn\'t you? How did pip react when you asked him to map it? Did he have any issues being as he didn\'t supply it or was he cool about it?
He was totally fine with it - he didn\'t really say anything. Having said that, someone did make a good point of saying see if you can do a deal with your tuners - buy the PFC from them and ask if they can take that into account when they map your car!
Have been very pleased with the man\'s work!
Quote from: RobbieRX-7Sounds like porting time then R1dude. Hey Ric, you bought a pfc didn\'t you? How did pip react when you asked him to map it? Did he have any issues being as he didn\'t supply it or was he cool about it?
Ive already got a street port, in a way I can`t wait till its stripped so I know how much work was done to it.
i would vouch for pips work any day, i have just spent a silly amount of money on my engine with him. over the past 3 months, and i have traveled for it(220miles), i picked WGT over all the other more local specialists. they might be more expensive than some of the others but i will stay with them thats for sure, and put it this way if you ever visit them and see the rows of rex\'s they have outside the workshop (which they incidently have to push out every morning from inside and then back in every evening) then i think other people are happy to wait for pips time aswell.
if he builds your engine he maps it in the price (so free) (well saying that, that is what he did for me, and i supplied the pfc. so i would assume that is the norm) where as i know other engine builders etc then charge for the mapping session on top of the £4500 you have just spent, once the car is run in.
Oooh... I\'ll have to check that with Pip :O
Thought I was going to have to wait til after x-mas to get it done! Will certainly phone him later :)
Oooh sorry to hear that, but it\'s an excuse for spending more money ;)
Sorry to butt in as well but what\'s the best time to call Pip...says on the website after 4 but never sure about actually asking for Pip? Need to ask a few questions about rebuilds :)
pip is generally there until about 6.30pm which is when he call people etc so the later the better normally or leave a message with the secutary and get pip to call you back when a time is convinent for him
Quote from: D1 WTFpip is generally there until about 6.30pm which is when he call people etc so the later the better normally or leave a message with the secutary and get pip to call you back when a time is convinent for him
Ta very much :Thumbs-up
Just had my call returned - remap wasnt included in the cost of the rebuild. £300+VAT if its straight forward.
Chris
Quote from: R1DudeThe good news is though my Bro`s car is running superbly (he did do a couple of things wrong when installing his boost controller and needed some plugs but Pip sorted all that out) hes running 315bhp at the fly, 293hp at the wheels, anyway just wanted to say I`m so happy his car is running sweet although mine isn`t!! .........Honest!.......:evillaugh
293 bhp at the wheels is much more than 315bhp at the fly, probably looking at 350 more like:Thumbs-up
Quote from: JP825293 bhp at the wheels is much more than 315bhp at the fly, probably looking at 350 more like:Thumbs-up
Hmmm really! Ile ave to ave another look at his printout, probably me looking at the wrong figures!! if u r right I`m not telling him! he won`t stop smiling for a week:)
i believe this is what you are after, originally posted by rotaryimports.com
"Formula for calculating Flywheel Horsepower:
Drivetrain loss on an FD RX-7 is about 18%. Therefore take 18 from 100, and you get 82. Then take the rear wheel horsepower figure and divide it by 0.82.
e.g. 217rwhp / 0.82 = 265fwhp"
so 293rwhp / 0.82 = 357fwhp
If my calculations are correct 293 wheels is 342.8 @ 17% loss.
So you can quote your car as 343bhp matey :Thumbs-up
Quote from: D1 WTFi believe this is what you are after, originally posted by rotaryimports.com
"Formula for calculating Flywheel Horsepower:
Drivetrain loss on an FD RX-7 is about 18%. Therefore take 18 from 100, and you get 82. Then take the rear wheel horsepower figure and divide it by 0.82.
e.g. 217rwhp / 0.82 = 265fwhp"
so 293rwhp / 0.82 = 357fwhp
saying this, it doesnt seem right though. i think this is incorrect
Quote from: D1 WTFsaying this, it doesnt seem right though. i think this is incorrect
My figure of 342.8 @ flywheel comes from info gathered from Thor Racing, had a good chat with the chap in charge and we worked out for a rotary we make it about 17%.
So if you do 293 x 1.17 = 342.8hp @ fly.
Hope thats clearer ? :Thumbs-up
i copied that out of the dyno results thread, but in looking at it i dont under stand where and why you take the 18%/17% from 100 giving you the 0.82 figure
293/0.82=357
this just dont seem correct in anway, below would be the true figure surely (all be it with 17%)
293/100=2.93 2.93x18=52.7 293+52.7=345.7
Fly Power - Fly Power x 18/100 = Rear Wheel Power
Fly Power x (1 - 18/100) = Rear Wheel Power
Fly Power x (100/100 -18/100) = Rear Wheel Power
Fly Power x (82/100) = Rear Wheel Power
Fly Power x 0.82 = Rear Wheel Power
So Fly Power = Rear Wheel Power / 0.82
Quote from: DLN:eek: :) is he that good with the rotaries then?
I will tell you without any bull ****, Pip G, at WGT is about as good as it gets! He is mustard Bloody hot mustart to, when it comes rotor engines. Pip always plays safe, WIll will not cut corners as his rep is second to none, He may not be the cheapest out but he is by far the best. 99.9999% of the time if recons anything on a rotory he is right! :Thumbsup!
Drivetrain loss is an absolute and not a percentage. For example a car said to have 20% loss :
200 bhp = 40Bhp loss
1000 Bhp = 200Bhp loss
Hope this is confusing! :spank :Thumbsup!
Quote from: D1 WTF293/0.82=357
this just dont seem correct in anway, below would be the true figure surely (all be it with 17%)
293/100=2.93 2.93x18=52.7 293+52.7=345.7
i am confused, so which one of these is correct or is neither
Its looking good whatever the correct calculation is ppl:Thumbs-up P.s I`m taking my engine out on sunday, not taken a rotary out before so any advice will be greatly appreciated:Thumbsup!
Quote from: Ricco_04Drivetrain loss is an absolute and not a percentage. For example a car said to have 20% loss :
200 bhp = 40Bhp loss
1000 Bhp = 200Bhp loss
Hope this is confusing! :spank :Thumbsup!
If your saying that there is a reducing percentage of loss as power increases then I agree. I cant believe a 400 hub rx loses 72hp through the transmission when a 200 hub loses only 36. There is surely a point at which the loss becomes static to rising forces. What are transmission losses? If we can state the components and ways power is absorbed by the the transmission then maybe we can work out if these losses would increase infinately. I doubt very much that they do. I would need a lot of convincing.
i am seeing pip tomorrow so i will ask him.
Quote from: R1DudeIts looking good whatever the correct calculation is ppl:Thumbs-up P.s I`m taking my engine out on sunday, not taken a rotary out before so any advice will be greatly appreciated:Thumbsup!
its easy! just try and keep the loom attached to the engine as much as possible...make sure you get the car high enough in the air so you can undo the pressure plate
Another example : you loose energy when your power goes through the gearbox. This is the same gearbox that you use when you have say 100bhp more so why would the loss be greater - it\'s not (or so I believe?)
There are many things that affect transmission loss from tyre pressures to different oils etc etc.
Quote from: D1 WTFi am confused, so which one of these is correct or is neither
It\'s all about whether you take the 18% off or add it on.
18% of the Fly power will be more than 18% of the wheel power - that\'s where the difference is coming from in your example.
Hope that clears it up.
Quote from: ProfIt\'s all about whether you take the 18% off or add it on.
18% of the Fly power will be more than 18% of the wheel power - that\'s where the difference is coming from in your example.
Hope that clears it up.
so which is correct/ surely there must be a correct way of doing it.
It\'s all about where you take 18% from.
The 18% is a loss, so it\'s 18% of the larger flywheel figure that you subtract.
By doing the calculation the other way, you are working out what 18% of the wheel power is, and then adding that on - that 18% is not as big as the 18% that would have come off if you follow me !
For example :
25% loss from 100 would be 75
If you did that calculation the other way round and said 25% increase on 75 - then you\'d be saying add 1/4 of 75 onto 75 - that will never be 100 - it\'s 18.75+75 = 93.75
By dividing by 0.82 you are doing the reverse of subtracting 18% from the larger figure - so it works backwards.
take the 100 example above :
100 - 25 = 75
Reversing this you would divide by 0.75 so 75/0.75 = 100 !
It will not always be a set %. Weight of rolling parts plays a big part in what power is seen at the wheels. Lighter hubs, brakes and wheels/tryes will show a \'higher\' figure at the wheels, where in fact the power made at the engine has not changed.
J
i want to convert my figure which was done on dynopac, so therefore RWHP (as it is done at the hubs) figure to fly wheel hp.
how do i do that.
ah hold on i finished reading your post, i kind of get it.
When I had my car mapped at Pip\'s I got a FWBHP figure - or I assume so as its too high to be RWBHP! :D
i got mine mapped a few hours ago and pip gave me both figures.
Ah that explain\'s it then! thanks chap! :)
Happy with the result? (more revs n all!)
Quote from: D1 WTFi got mine mapped a few hours ago and pip gave me both figures.
Do you mind sharing both figures with us?
yes i am happy with results.:Thumbs-up
it must have been remapped aswell as just having the limiter raised as, even the low boost setting feels so much different, even thought the boost level is the same.
the revs do make such a difference, when changing gear it doesnt drop half as much out of boost (if that makes sence). i am so used to changing gear at 6500rpm(what the limiter was set to) that i keep short shifting it now. lol, wont take long to get used to it.
although the real bummer is my exhaust has started blowing on the way back grr. from were the cat back pipe meets the rear silencer, where it is welded on (also if that make sense) so unless it can be repaired which i doubt it i am now going to have to get a new cat back section, grrrrrrrrrr :( :( this is really not good.
of course it is not over 285 bhp as that is all my insurance is for.
Lol.
Not an expert by any means but I would have thought a good bead of weld should have her all fixed up?
yer i can patch up the exhaust but now that i have found out that it is also blowing between the turbo and downpipe, i am a bit worried. as on any drive over fifteen mins the hotside is glowing red. and that is off boost. even had the manifold glowing earlier. not very happy, fingers crossed i can sort it out tomorrow.
Yeah, I was reading that thread, I wish I knew what to tell you but I aint that good! :(
You will sort it for sure! :Thumbs-up
This post makes me feel sick. I am about to buy an engine. but posts like this make me want to jib the rotary thing off altogether (been in it 3 years). just come out of a job have a bit of time and cash to fix my fd. 11,000 miles on an engine. makes me think just get out of it before you get any deeper or word of mouth how many miles an engine has done should just not be trusted. jesus. this is ********. Sorry but its not a good day
lol, and its almost 2yrs Old Thread :Giggle
Shaun
Pip who...... lol
Is he still alive? lol 2 years old too didnt get onto that
Well what follows is my opinion so far of rotary engine ownership, I am about to pick my car up from Re-Worx tomorrow after having it fail after a 5000 mile rebuild (not by Re-Worx I can assure you), now I am going to collect my car with what is going to be my last large cheque ever for a re-build of a rotary engine. I won\'t repeat myself again but I am sure the work done by these guys will probably, no correction will be as good as it gets. Where is my money going after my bathroom is completed (the money for this work was supposed to be for this but I won\'t bore you with the details) on a V8 conversion.
If you want the opinion of a new owner who perhaps may have a clear and unclouded opinion that could be potentially as wrong as a blinkered pro rotary fanatic I would suggest like me you start to save some money towards an LS1 or whatever engine.
This rotary is now on probation!
Now where did I see that carbon fibre prop from the HSC site and how much was it?
Rotary Art sells the Carbon props now !
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwil;526525Rotary Art sells the Carbon props now !
Shaun
Thanks Shaun,
Are they serious about that price? I was thinking more about the package HSC do for the conversion it only adds $400 for the carbon fibre one.
Haven\'t seen the HSC one but the ones gary sells are the real deal. There was a 2 page article in J-tuner about them and the process is quite heavy in producing them !
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwil;526458lol, and its almost 2yrs Old Thread :Giggle
Shaun
And believe it or not my car is still not on the road yet, hopefully not long now though, should have done a rebuild thread I suppose but been too busy with work, but just under 2 years I think everyone would be bored!! lol. Here`s a quick rundown of whats been done though thats took me so long....
New engine street ported by Carl Hayward
(Built by me and my brother in my dining room)
Apexi power Fc and Commander
Battery moved to boot
Engine bay completley stripped and Re Sprayed (twice!!)
Massive front mount intercooler
Turbos converted to non sequential (Advice, welding etc by John Hudson)
HKS downpipe
550cc primaries
1600cc secondaries
Fuel pressure regulator
Custom braided fuel lines
255 litre an hour fuel pump
Custom made power steering cooler
Re Amemia intake
Air con removed
Air pump removed
Full blanking plate kit fitted (Purchased through group buy MRC)
Lightweight pully kit
Re Amemiya twin hard plate clutch and lightened flywheel (was on other engine had clutch rebuilt as similar clutch kit was quoted at over £1200)
Hks clutch release bearing
Full stainless exhaust (purchased from John Hudson)
Re Amemiya vented bonnet (will be fitted when car is resprayed and Re Amemiya kit re fitted properly)
Greddy elbow
Re Amemiya wheels fully refurbed
Complete poly bush kit
Magnetic sump plug
HKS Semi Sequential blow off valve
HKS Platinum Plugs
Magnicore leads
Lots of powder coating, painting, polishing and cleaning, hopefully she fires up, just waiting for new injector seals as I lost some during the process of building everything and moving the car between units and driveways! If I get one day of sun while driving her this year I will be happy :yes
Sounds like a monster job. Make sure you post some images once done :D
Shaun
Quote from: R1Dude;526744And believe it or not my car is still not on the road yet, hopefully not long now though, should have done a rebuild thread I suppose but been too busy with work, but just under 2 years I think everyone would be bored!! lol.
Bl00dy hell! Now
thats\' a rebuild! Admire your persistance there, dude. I don\'t think I \'ve ever done anything in my life that lasted two years! Should make it all the sweeter when you turn the key.
I need two more days to get her running, its on my mates drive under a car port so the rain won`t stop me finishin it now, just need to find the 2 days once my seals have arrived, will post all my pics up once its done, outside is a bit of a mess but the bay is awesome. One of the reasons its took me nearlly 2 years is because the last engine didn`t last very long at all I decided to more or less replace everything with new or uprated parts and after reading and learning off vendors and ppl off here what the best set up would be for the power and look that I want time shot past. Plus I needed to earn the money to pay for it all, think i`m up to 10k right now and I have done most of the work myself, ahh well I`m keeping her forever, just hope she does fire!
Quote from: DLN;306443:eek: :) is he that good with the rotaries then?
I have been there twice now and he is spot on went last friday with a boost problem second turbo not coming in till 6500 rpm leaking vac pipe or intercooler pipe i was thinking???? no it turned out to be a broken wire in the loom thats how good he is a true rotary god. :god