Am I in trouble?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vKZVCdAkcM
second video from fairly cold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW5CvFRK_R4
not working :(
thats it now!
I\'d say so :(
Get it to Pip\'s (as your closest) as I have heard sometimes you can also warp some of your housings which could have been re-used, not sure how true this is?
I have done about 600 miles on a rebuild! Not a rebuild technically, an engine with a guaranteed 20k on it.
The engine came with a 6 month warranty, would that include the o seals?
My brothers are coming over this weekend as well, balls! - no rex to play with!
Not good that mate, Give your Engine builder a cal and get them to have a look.
what should it do when u run it with no cap on?
Just what i thought!!:2eek
The water level should rise - due to heat expansion. But it shouldn\'t bubble like that, that usually means exhaust gasses are getting into the coolant - probably through the coolant seals.
A quite common failure on s4 onwards motors is the outer edge of the coolant seal groove on the end/center plates corrodes away and eventually cracks or bits fall off it causing leekage.
Especially common on motors from Japan as coolant/antifreeze is often not used.
Worst thing mazda ever did putting water seals on the plates, should have left them in the alloy housings which are more corrosive resistant. In fact i think they went back to this way in the rx8 but not sure.
Will it be ok short term? The car is running perfect!!
I will do that check again when the car is cold, first thing in the mornning. If you did them test with a warmish engine then you will see water rising up quicker then when its cold. And with the cold engine you will be able to see if there are any bubbles much better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lTQS9PjAqA
lots of white smoke? Eeeek!!!
From a cold start the engine will pressurise the cooling system - you\'ll see the champers effect with the collent cap off. This will do a few things - force too much coolant out of the system, filling the expansion tank and overflowing it and also over heat the system (it\'s general ability to cool will be compromised).
When you turn it off and it cools down some coolant is drawn into the engine through the weak seal. You\'ll get more and more water smoke on startup and eventually the engine will start on only one rotor as one is flooded too much to get spark. Takes a few seconds of running to sort this out.
You should really rebuild before this point but it\'s only here that you\'ll get really bad reliability risk...
Happened to me 3 years ago :(
deffo the coolant seals bud, mind did the exact same.. cost me 4k :( feel for you m8..
QuoteWill it be ok short term? The car is running perfect!!
So long as it doesnt over heat it wont really do anything. Keep an eye on coolant level.
I found mine difficult to keep cool after a while. Even travelling at 70mph on a motorway, i would find the temps going up! Rather than remaining constant.
UPDATE!
I am really paranoid about this car, and treat it very well.
I have taken it to a Rotary Specialist today (who will remain anon for the time being!!) who is not overly concerned about my symptoms - however he has given me a few things to look out for over the next few days.
WHITE SMOKE
He reckons this isnt too severe for a cold start in this weather
CHAMPAGNE TEST
He did confirm that this is not \'normal\' but that I may have trapped air in the system. Going to have it flushed to check.
COOLANT LEVELS
Got to keep an eye on how much coolant it is using after a run.
I am lucky in a way, I have a warranty with this car that will cover a rebuild, however the engine is a second hand engine with a guaranteed 20k on it that was only put in about 1500kms ago - strange?
If we can diagnose the problem soon, he could have it stripped and rebuilt within 3 weeks, however if we cant diagnose the problem in the next few weeks he is booked up until April!
Quote from: interloper393deffo the coolant seals bud, :( feel for you m8..
I am with you 99.99% !!
Quote from: onelastpostUPDATE!
I am really paranoid about this car, and treat it very well.
I have taken it to a Rotary Specialist today (who will remain anon for the time being!!) who is not overly concerned about my symptoms - however he has given me a few things to look out for over the next few days.
WHITE SMOKE
He reckons this isnt too severe for a cold start in this weather
CHAMPAGNE TEST
He did confirm that this is not \'normal\' but that I may have trapped air in the system. Going to have it flushed to check.
COOLANT LEVELS
Got to keep an eye on how much coolant it is using after a run.
I am lucky in a way, I have a warranty with this car that will cover a rebuild, however the engine is a second hand engine with a guaranteed 20k on it that was only put in about 1500kms ago - strange?
If we can diagnose the problem soon, he could have it stripped and rebuilt within 3 weeks, however if we cant diagnose the problem in the next few weeks he is booked up until April!
Pip\'s busy then? ;)
What does it mean if the coolant drops but then comes back up again?
Mine drops and the add coolant buzzer goes off... When she warms up abit it stops.... Ive never put any water in her.. topped her up like..
But since the mornings are gettin colder its started to happen at a lower temp... But then again the car never goes over 76 degrees while driving?!?!?!?!
I love rotaries!!! :Thumbs-up
Quote from: AndyGen3What does it mean if the coolant drops but then comes back up again?
Mine drops and the add coolant buzzer goes off... When she warms up abit it stops.... Ive never put any water in her.. topped her up like..
But since the mornings are gettin colder its started to happen at a lower temp... But then again the car never goes over 76 degrees while driving?!?!?!?!
I love rotaries!!! :Thumbs-up
Sounds like you\'re losing coolant slowly. If the coolant buzzer sounds when it\'s relatively cold it\'s because the level has dropped, but then when the buzzer stops when the coolant has warmed up a bit, it\'s because the coolant has expanded due to the heat (Normal). But, you say you\'re needing to top it up a bit - that basically means you\'re losing coolant. You could be lucky in that there\'s an air lock in the system somewhere.
Well ive only topped it up once... Since i bought it last december!!!!
Its got an Ikeya V Mount kit which holds 8.5L more coolant... Might be an air lock... Not too worried anyway... It bin doin it since day1!!
Quote from: nikpSounds like you\'re losing coolant slowly. If the coolant buzzer sounds when it\'s relatively cold it\'s because the level has dropped, but then when the buzzer stops when the coolant has warmed up a bit, it\'s because the coolant has expanded due to the heat (Normal). But, you say you\'re needing to top it up a bit - that basically means you\'re losing coolant. You could be lucky in that there\'s an air lock in the system somewhere.
^^^Never run a rotary short of water, regularly check the coolant level in the filler neck by the alternator (when cold), and top up as necessary.
What level should the water be at though?
Also in my opinion that isnt a terrible ammount of smoke when starting in cold at this time of year, as any car started on a cold morning produces lots of white smoke. (like when you breathe out)
Quote from: CallyWhat level should the water be at though?
Also in my opinion that isnt a terrible ammount of smoke when starting in cold at this time of year, as any car started on a cold morning produces lots of white smoke. (like when you breathe out)
It varies slightly but mine sits right at the top of the filler neck at all times!
Quote from: CallyWhat level should the water be at though?
Also in my opinion that isnt a terrible ammount of smoke when starting in cold at this time of year, as any car started on a cold morning produces lots of white smoke. (like when you breathe out)
It varies slightly from car to car but mine sits right at the top of the filler neck at all times!
Quote from: boyrotorSo long as it doesnt over heat it wont really do anything. Keep an eye on coolant level.
:eek: DO NOT... Run an Fd with a Coolant problem
Overheating the Motor will kill any salvagable Plates/Housings posably also the rad/Heater matrix (you don\'t want to Change one of those) don\'t forget the Engine is Presurizing the system (thats whats Causing the Symptoms)
Mine startes from Cold with the water level 10mm from the top of the Neck then slowly Rises until i turn it off and Put the cap back on. There is no Bubbles.
If you run it with the cap on does it....
Make all the Coolant pipes Hard very quickly after Starting
Loose Coolant so the Buzzer goes off
Fill the Overflow tank (Drivers side Ft Iner wing)
If yes then its a Engine rebuild i\'m Afraid and i would say DON\'t Drive it until its been Checked by some one int the Know and OK\'d
But Check there is No Water marks down the Front of the engine (coming from the Water Pump area (Pump Drain holes) a bad Pump seal canb give the same Symptoms but Don\'t hold your Breath becouse you have alot of Bubbles there and it would have to be a Major Pump Problem, But also saying that if the Caps have failed and its Drawing air into the System that may give those symptoms too so a pair of New caps may not be a bad idea.
Also With the cap off (cold oviously) start the car and smell the Bubbles, does it smell of Fuel or Exhaust gasses?
Quote from: GrizzlyFill the Overflow tank (Drivers side Ft Iner wing)
If yes then its a Engine rebuild
Shouldnt this have water in it? I was always under the impression that it should be half way to full on the dip-stick indicator?!?!?:xconfused
Quote from: CallyShouldnt this have water in it? I was always under the impression that it should be half way to full on the dip-stick indicator?!?!?:xconfused
yes, but it should only be Half Full, so if it Fills it up you have a problem. (Hope Rixio don\'t mind me putting his Vid as an Example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43bdGs4ePlI)
Mine is sitting at full at the moment...:xconfused Doesnt pee out water like tha thought?
Yeh, Does your\'s have a Dipper in the Lid? They should have Coolant in but not Full. TBH it don\'t make alot of Diffrence if your cars running sweet but i like to make sure levels don\'t move about so i keep mine spot on.
yeah it has a dipper in the lid and its at the full marker. I recently topped up the middle bit a couple of times as it was down like and inch and i put a little water in, maybe just over filled?
No, just top it up to the Max Line and just keep an eye on it, Mine must be a bit Diffrent Bottle or some thing (my level is about 3/4 full)
My level would drop to this a couple of times -
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/koolance/coolant.jpg)
so I added water to bring it upto near the top, could this cause the bottle on the left to move up as it was only at half full maybe a bit above a few weeks ago.
sorry for hi-jacking this post and thanks for all you help Grizzly, appreciated.
Yep, you are suposed to top the levels up then leave it, the only reason you should remove thet Cap is if the Buzzer goes off, also its a good idea to replace the Caps every so often the caps do tend to leak after a while.
last thing, you may want to get a bit of Anti freeze and mix it 50/50 with water and keep it just for topping up, Now winter is near it worries me that my anti freeze may be low or out of wack so i also change it one a year (Peace of mind is worth every penny) :)
Might get a wee change done before it starts getting really cold then!
Quote from: GrizzlyYep, you are suposed to top the levels up then leave it, the only reason you should remove thet Cap is if the Buzzer goes off......
Thought you should regularly check fluid level (say once a week) irrespective of buzzer...Isn\'t waiting for a buzzer a bit like waiting for your oil warning light to come on????? Seems a bit late in the day to me.
Quote from: AdriansturgessThought you should regularly check fluid level (say once a week) irrespective of buzzer...Isn\'t waiting for a buzzer a bit like waiting for your oil warning light to come on????? Seems a bit late in the day to me.
You should check you levels yeh, but i was always told that cap should not be removed becouse of how the Level system works (if you notice when you take the top off the level always drops and you can change that by raising the AST but if you keep the top on the AST level does\'nt effect it as there should be no air in there) All you do by toping the last bit up all the time is fill the Overflow tank up. if the buzzer sounds its at the base of the Filler so nothings going to be harmed )unless you have a BIG!! water leak), Also if it sounds you have a problem becouse An Fd does\'nt loose water!!
Quote from: onelastposthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lTQS9PjAqA
lots of white smoke? Eeeek!!!
Smoke doesn\'t seem too bad but would be easier to see if it wasn\'t such a close up shot. From what I could make out, I reckon mines worse than that..:eek: What was the air temperature at the time????
Quote from: AdriansturgessSmoke doesn\'t seem too bad but would be easier to see if it wasn\'t such a close up shot. From what I could make out, I reckon mines worse than that..:eek: What was the air temperature at the time????
I have to agree all Turbo cars will White smoke this time of year.
Quote from: GrizzlyYou should check you levels yeh, but i was always told that cap should not be removed becouse of how the Level system works (if you notice when you take the top off the level always drops and you can change that by raising the AST but if you keep the top on the AST level does\'nt effect it as there should be no air in there) All you do by toping the last bit up all the time is fill the Overflow tank up. if the buzzer sounds its at the base of the Filler so nothings going to be harmed )unless you have a BIG!! water leak), Also if it sounds you have a problem becouse An Fd does\'nt loose water!!
I understand that you shouldn\'t normally remove the cap off the AST (it even says that on the cap) but didn\'t think there was a problem with removing the filler cap to check levels????
Ok if you want to test how Directly the Engine level is effects the AST lift the AST above the engine then remove the cap. What i\'m saying if there is no problem (ie engine seal,Water pump etc) the Level won\'t change and all you are doing by checking it every week is filling the overflow bottle up. if you remove the top the level drops to the same level as the AST then you top it back up to the top so the AST is now over filled that then self levels and the excess if put in the overflow tank, Can you see what i\'m saying?
Once a month is good enough for me, Plus the amount of water drop to set the Buzzer off is stupid low if you put into perspective (how much does the system hold)
So when topping up you remove the ast? Ive never removed it, does it just screw of like the central filling point next to the alternator? I reckon ive just topped it up and filled the overflow bottle like you have mentioned!!
Quote from: GrizzlyOk if you want to test how Directly the Engine level is effects the AST lift the AST above the engine then remove the cap. What i\'m saying if there is no problem (ie engine seal,Water pump etc) the Level won\'t change and all you are doing by checking it every week is filling the overflow bottle up. if you remove the top the level drops to the same level as the AST then you top it back up to the top so the AST is now over filled that then self levels and the excess if put in the overflow tank, Can you see what i\'m saying?
Once a month is good enough for me, Plus the amount of water drop to set the Buzzer off is stupid low if you put into perspective (how much does the system hold)
OK, think I get what you are saying, kind of makes sense, I think.
Thanks Grizzly, that info is excellent. It seems I have been doing it wrong, too. So do you think we should just fill up the at the engine cap just once. Then check the level at the bottle only, and get the right level in the bottle?
I have been filling mine up at the engine all the time. When I remove the cap, the level drops, so I have been topping it up to full there. Sometimes it pushes water out the bottle, after I switch off.
I am going to try this:
Fill up at the engine cap.
Now get level correct in bottle.
Periodically check and adjust level at bottle.
Only top up engine if coolant buzzer sounds.
Does this seem correct?
Quote from: MartinyI am going to try this:
Fill up at the engine cap.
Now get level correct in bottle.
Periodically check and adjust level at bottle.
Only top up engine if coolant buzzer sounds.
Does this seem correct?
Yeah, that sounds good. The coolant system will draw what it requires from the overflow tank back into the system when it cools down.
If I have topped up the middle too much and now have the marker in the overflow at full will this go out a wee hole or anything when hot to get back to a normal level?
Grizzly\'s advice seems pretty sound when you think about it - but the only thing that still troubles me is, how do I find out if my coolant level buzzer actually works? Because I did have a big coolant leak a few months back and lost a lot of coolant and I don\'t remember hearing any buzzer go off.
Questions:
Do all FD\'s have a buzzer?
How can you check it works?
If it doesn\'t work is it easy to fix/replace?
Its easy,
You can test it when you flush your coolant out, when the system is dry, turn the ignition on (obv don\'t start the car)
Wait a few seconds and that god awful, ear bleeding noise is the buzzer :)
Quote from: GrizzlyMine startes from Cold with the water level 10mm from the top of the Neck then slowly Rises until i turn it off and Put the cap back on. There is no Bubbles.
If you run it with the cap on does it....
Make all the Coolant pipes Hard very quickly after Starting No!
Loose Coolant so the Buzzer goes off buzzer has never gone off!
Fill the Overflow tank (Drivers side Ft Iner wing) i have been filling this and the other two, so I am loosing water here, but that is normal as its full.
If yes then its a Engine rebuild i\'m Afraid and i would say DON\'t Drive it until its been Checked by some one int the Know and OK\'d
But Check there is No Water marks down the Front of the engine (coming from the Water Pump area (Pump Drain holes) a bad Pump seal canb give the same Symptoms but Don\'t hold your Breath becouse you have alot of Bubbles there and it would have to be a Major Pump Problem, But also saying that if the Caps have failed and its Drawing air into the System that may give those symptoms too so a pair of New caps may not be a bad idea.
Also With the cap off (cold oviously) start the car and smell the Bubbles, does it smell of Fuel or Exhaust gasses?
All a bit weird? I will keep an eye on your much coolant she is using over the next few days. Although I have none of the above symptoms that chanpagne test is not normal.
Thanks to everyone for all your help, will keep you all updated.
Quote from: AdriansturgessGrizzly\'s advice seems pretty sound when you think about it - but the only thing that still troubles me is, how do I find out if my coolant level buzzer actually works?
Questions:
Do all FD\'s have a buzzer?
How can you check it works?
If it doesn\'t work is it easy to fix/replace?
Yep, There is a Buzzer.
You check it once a Year when you replace the Antifreeze ;) (It will go off a cupple of time until you get all the air out of the System)
TBH they are very Relible (i\'ve never seen one fail) but a guess like every thing there is a Chance possably not Plug\'d back in or damaged during a rebuild maybe?? but you would be very Unlucky if you keep on top of stuff like the Anti freeze and have a Pipe go on you and the Buzzer does\'nt sound (but don\'t forget not all cars have Buzzers becouse its Deamed Ovious when the Engine drops all its water, you will see lots of Steam)
Quote from: onelastpostAll a bit weird? I will keep an eye on your much coolant she is using over the next few days. Although I have none of the above symptoms that chanpagne test is not normal.
Thanks to everyone for all your help, will keep you all updated.
Yes it does sound odd.
I\'d have a really Good look at the Water pump (make sure there are no Water marks) or Ovious leaks
It says in your Vid the water is Brown? is it a Rusty colour? if so it tends to mean there is No Antifreeze in it (It has Anti corrosion additive) this means some thing Steel is Rusting (A plate or Water pump) as i say have a real good look at the Water pump area if the Bearing/seal has failed depending on where its gone it could be drawing air in.
The thing that makes Water seal Faliurs such a Pain is the seal its self does\'nt usaly Go, its the Groove it sits in (so the seal can dislocate making it Bad Symptoms then relocate making it Mild). Depending on Where it goes it can make realy Violent Symptoms or realy Mild, TBH your Symptoms remind me of an Engine i put together that i had problems with the New water seals (they did\'nt seal propperly RA\'s) i have done a Few since and its common to get a bit of a leak when its tested at std Torque but if you Over Torque it a bit it goes, but then if this is a Pro Builder i can\'t imagen this would be the Case, they would test these things before it went in the car.
Took the car for a drive this morning about 40 miles, left it all day to cool down. Just got home and checked the coolant, it took about a litre of me!!! Something is up!!
Whats strange is that the over flow tanl has water in it, why didnt this get drawn back into the main water tank?
Its going in on Monday- its a shame cos the weather the last few weeks has been perfect for driving her.
^^^^That doesn\'t seem to add up does it??....:confused:
If the low level coolant sensor is not plugged into the loom, the buzzer will sound. So, if you\'re not getting that - is the F100 box plugged in?
Yeh your Buzzer int Working for a Start, So am i right in saying your engine level is going down and the overflow is going up? or is the water just vanishing?
I know its proberly already been said but you have the caps on the correct way round don\'t you?
Why does it not pull the water back from the Overflow tank? i think that part only works when every thing cools down i belive it uses the vacumm from the water cooling to draw more water in so if there is a leak there is nothing to create the vacumm (But to be Honist i don\'t know alot about that part).
Loosing a Litre of water is quite alot but having seen some bad water seals this is a Mild one if it Turns out to be a Seal. Usaly you can\'t drive at all without it Pushing water out or Blowing hoses/Rad\'s apart.
As i say its not a Good idea to drive it until its been looked at.
moved.......
^^^^^to here......
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29170