Mazda Rotary Club

So nearly got all the bits that I need to get this moving now, so this is what\'s happening to old Rixy :
 
Engine:
 

• New Turbo with T04B front end, flowed turbine and ported wastegate
• Forge actuator with spring adjusted to 7 psi
• 800cc Secondary Injectors
• Adjustable Fuel Pressure Rail
• ARC top mount intercooler
• Coolingmist water injection
• Greddy Compression tube (throttle inlet - like the elbow but straight)
• Samco Red hoses for water pipes
• Blue Silicon piping for Induction pipes and Vacuum (Venair)
• Custom inlet ducting to replace the 2x90 bends with a single 45 angle
• Cold air box
• Electric Volvo Radiator Fan
• Thermostat in top water hose
• Remove Air pump
• Possibly remove ACV
• Braided Fuel lines
• Inline in engine Fuel pressure gauge

Electronics:
 

• Greddy eManage Ultimate
• GM 3 Bar Boost Sensor
• Greddy Profec B Spec II boost controller
• Innovate LC-1 Wideband O2 sensor
• dPic Accelerometer/horsepower meter (52mm Gauge - well sexy)
• Custom intelligent gauge for A/F, Water Injection and Inlet temps and Battery Voltage (52mm Gauge 20 LED\'s Blue to Red, with 4 character alphanumeric display)
• Custom warning light cluster replacement (LCD alphanumeric with multicolour backlight)
• GPS/GSM Tracker/Immobiliser/Datalogger

Suspension/Brakes:
 

• Racing Beat Springs
• New Eurethane bushes
• Braided brake lines

Bodywork:
 

• Front Lip
• Ducted headlight cover
• Replace rusty drivers side rear panel
• LED sidelights
• LED side indicator replacement with smoke lens (no more dalek eyes)
• Paintjob - Midnight purple - the really dark almost black one

Plan is to get the eManage wired in but just datalogging, and get some figures for how the car runs now, then get the Turbo and hosing done, with the new Induction pipes, but leave it just on the spring boost for now, as this is within the current mapping of the ECU.
 
Then once the turbo is run in, the bigger secondaries, water injection and boost controller can go on (might wait till after winter for these goodies) :bandit
 
Pics will be added to this thread as things happen !

jesus - thats one hell of an FC you will have matey :D

cant wait to see it at RSIV :D :D

so how much of all that do you own - and how much is left to buy ??

you need to do FULL write ups of everything so !! - make it more interesting for others to dream over :D

Stu

As Grinder says - that is a big list, fair play and please update all the way! :Thumbs-up

i hope you are getting it dyno\'d once its all done ??

thats quite a project prof, good luck:Thumbs-up  and keep us posted:Talking1

Stu - I still have to stump up for the braided fuel lines, and the brake lines, all other parts are now paid for - waiting on the bushes though :(
 
Also have to pay for the paintjob. :(
 
Will be dyno\'d - Turbo spring only, and then on the boost controller and larger injectors.
 
Rough calculations put this at around 330BHP on the flywheel - running around 1-1.1 bar - it\'s going to be pretty nippy :spank :driving :Giggle

I\'d watch the emissions if you dump the airpump....

Quote from: BrettI\'d watch the emissions if you dump the airpump....

But it spends most of its time blowing air under the drivers side headlight now! :)  - I haven\'t had cat\'s for at least 3 years now - and passes emissions with flying colours - 0.4% CO (allowed 3.5%) and 244 ppm (allowed 1200ppm) HydroCarbons. :Thumbs-up
 
I think as long as I watch the mapping and don\'t mix it too rich when the secondaries are changed, I should be ok.
 
If I keep the ACV, I will put a breather filter on the old air pump line and let it suck air in for the deceleration/afterburn system, as that is the only function the air pump now has.

Prof : where have you sourced the bushes from ???

I got that kit from Energy Suspension Parts (dst) the web address is http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/ (http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/)
 
The full kit works out as $177 including the shipping - it doesn\'t have the DTSS eliminators or the hard diff mounts though - so probably still wanting to find the diff mounts. I quite like the passive rear steer system - once you get used to it, you can take the corners a lot more aggressively :spank, and perhaps because the Vert is that much heavier that the hard top it throws itself into the corners nicely. :)
 
I am quite scared to add up the total cost of all the bits that are going on - without the paint job it\'s looking like 2K already :(
 
Still - keep telling myself it will be awesome when done, and eBay has been a source for a lot of bargains !

so whats been your ebay bargains then ??

$177 - ouch - thats more than what i wanted to pay :(

Quote from: grinderso whats been your ebay bargains then ??

Where do you start...
 
Profeb B Spec II was £180 incl p&p
Cooling mist deluxe kit was £200 including shipping (paid only £20 duty on that one)
Turbo was £300 including shipping !! (£35 import nonsense)
Injectors were £85 - no duty ;)
eManage and wire harness - whole lot was £385 including duties - that\'s a saving of about £200 plus :D
Radiator Fan was £15!

BLIMEY - there are some good prices there :D :D

the fan was cheap :D  

is the emanage new ???

Quote from: grinderBLIMEY - there are some good prices there :D :D
 
the fan was cheap :D
 
is the emanage new ???

the eManage - Brand spanking - and I got the idea for the volvo rad from Brett !

i like the elec fan idea to be honest

i take it that you wire it up to a top hose thermostat then ( or summat like that ) ??

i was thinking of doing it to mine and free up some space - but i have heard that the normal fan is very good at keeping things cool

so whats the fan off ( yeah i know a volvo !! ) - and whats the fit like on the rad ?? what will you use for a shroud ??

all these questions eh - bet you wish you never posted this !! LOL

we need lots of pics and write ups matey - we really do :D :D

when are you looking at starting all this work ( just so i know how long to wait for the writeups :D )

Stu
( off to check ebay for elec fans !! LOL )

just found this : http://www.rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/efan/efan.html - sounds interesting and makes soooooooooo much room up front :D

Quote from: grinderi like the elec fan idea to be honest
 
i take it that you wire it up to a top hose thermostat then ( or summat like that ) ??

Yep - thermostat switch sits in the top hose, the switch will drive a relay and this will drive the fan direct from the battery (via a fuse of course ;) ), which should keep the car cool when it\'s sat without air moving through the rad.
 

Quote from: grinderi was thinking of doing it to mine and free up some space - but i have heard that the normal fan is very good at keeping things cool

I did hear that too - but there is bags more room without it, and it saps a few HP all the time, elec fan will only be on when required.
 

Quote from: grinderso whats the fan off ( yeah i know a volvo !! ) - and whats the fit like on the rad ?? what will you use for a shroud ??

Fan is from an 850 / V70 - its 16" diameter and covers about 85% of the rad - sod knows how I will mount it or what kind of shroud I\'ll use :spank
 

Quote from: grinderall these questions eh - bet you wish you never posted this !! LOL
 
we need lots of pics and write ups matey - we really do :D :D
 
when are you looking at starting all this work ( just so i know how long to wait for the writeups :D )
 
Stu
( off to check ebay for elec fans !! LOL )
 
just found this : http://www.rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/efan/efan.html (http://www.rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/efan/efan.html) - sounds interesting and makes soooooooooo much room up front :D

Questions, questions - thing is that\'s how we all learn - if I get something right on here - it may help others, if I balls up I know where to come for help - LOL :Thumbs-up
 
TBH - I don\'t mind the questions - keep em coming...

he he he i have many a question matey !!

to be honest - its nice to see another FC owner getting their hands dirty :D - the write ups are important though - i take it you have seen the ones that i have done ( in the mods sticky ?? )

we need to add to this - as i dont think its been added to in about 12 months

Stu

oh yeah - is the top hose thing off ebay for about £35 - or have you found cheaper ?? - i really like the idea - but i have a top hose temp gauge in mine - and not sure if it would handle having 2 thing in it ( might weaken the pipe too much ?? )

Quote from: ProfStu - I still have to stump up for the braided fuel lines, and the brake lines, all other parts are now paid for - waiting on the bushes though :(
 
Also have to pay for the paintjob. :(
 
Will be dyno\'d - Turbo spring only, and then on the boost controller and larger injectors.
 
Rough calculations put this at around 330BHP on the flywheel - running around 1-1.1 bar - it\'s going to be pretty nippy :spank :driving :Giggle

Hi Prof,

I got my braided fuel lines from Clive at Shy Autos he also modified an S4 Secondary Rail for me.
The FPR is from Ebay USA.

Paul

Quote from: paul3944Hi Prof,
 
I got my braided fuel lines from Clive at Shy Autos he also modified an S4 Secondary Rail for me.
The FPR is from Ebay USA.
 
Paul

Oooh - now them look nice !:Thumbs-up
 
The FPR I have on the fuel rail is just a thumbscrew one, just allows the fixed pressure to be changed.  The thinking behind that was if the fuel flow needed picking up a bit I could tweek it with that.  The one in the piccy - is that a rising rate one ?
 
I already have a walboro\' in the tank - essental for more than 300bhp as the stock pump starts to struggle and will let the pressure drop too much - again that was the thinking behind the fuel pressure gauge - at least I can check what\'s happening to the pressure on a dyno run -  make sure it stays up.:Thumbs-up

Hi,

Yes the FPR is a rising rate model (Aeromotive ) they sell on RE Work for a few quid but i managed to get one from the U.S and did\'nt pay duty :Thumbs-up .

I\'ve basically been following the write up on this page -

 http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/FUEL/fsystem.htm

All the best,
Paul

Excellent link - love the idea of that parallel fuelling setup - might need to take another look at this.

Do you know what the limits are on running the serial setup by the way ?

I also noticed the parallel fuelling arrangement doesn\'t have a pulsation damper - I am guessing this is not required when both primaries and secondaries see the same rail pressure through the regulator.

Hi Prof,

Not sure on the limits to this system but research on RX7 Club has shown to support up to 600 bhp :eek

The FPR takes care of the pulsation but i think this is more to do with the design of the FPR itself :confused:

I\'m in the process of still fitting the system as i\'ve had to slighlty modify the S4 rail to allow the UIM to bolt over :(

Paul

prof .. is this the kit you got : http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=11%2E18101&cat=1234

That\'s the one !

i have just asked for a shipping quote from another site - i cant believe they charged you about $70 just for shipping :(

thought it would be cheaper than that ( about $30 to be honest )

have you actually got them ??

im really tempted to do mine now - been reading all the posts i started about them - and it would seem an ideal time to fit them whilst doing the coilovers ( why do i create these HUGE projects eh !! )

Stu

Got the dPic gauge in last night - will post pics up over the weekend, but here is a link  (http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?ref=search&gid=3284)to look at for now.

It was easy to calibrate, but gives false readings on slopes as you might expect !

oohhh thats nice - just trying to find the price now :D

ahh ahhh : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATM%2D6180&N=700+115&autoview=sku

£80 off eBay, including shipping, but had to pay duty of £10 - said it was second hand, but wires had never been used as far as I could tell, although it did have data in it - the stored terminal was 112Mph with maximum acceleration of 1.02G !

It\'s a lot less hassle to use than the old Gtec meter, which I might be getting rid of now.

how do you manage to find these things ??

ive always fancied a gtec or a AP22 - just to see what they say

why is the Gtec a hassle ??

Quote from: grinderwhy is the Gtec a hassle ??

You have to mount it on the dash so it\'s level, and the single switch takes a bit of getting used to, but the device is suprisingly accurate - it was off by about .1 sec

I\'ll pm some pics to you.

oooohhhhh good man :D

not sure if you can PM pics though ??

what does it measure ?

( can feel new toys coming along here :D )

Was going to take some piccies today of the dPic installed in the car - but a terrible thing happened...
 
Pulsing noise from the exhaust - spelling only one thing...
 
...it\'s rebuild o\'clock again - this engine lasted 27,000 miles and a little over 2 years :eek:
 
And in fairness it hasn\'t quite gone yet, but has very low compression on the front rotor 3.5 / 4 / 6.4 - so it was hard starting and although it idles all be it a little roughly, it won\'t be long for this world.  Luckilly I caught it before it\'s gone too far - otherwise more damage could have been done - hoping that the rotor housings are ok on this one - and it\'s just a cracked seal.
 
Seems I will be spending my repaint fund on an engine build - ho hum :(

your joking matey ?!?!?!

27K thats not a lot - who did the rebuild

Rotechnicks did the last rebuild - to be honest the car has had a history of misbehaving with boot problems, the turbo leaking oil - not sure if any of this has contributed to the early demise.

The car is a daily runner, and whilst I give it time to warm up and cool down, it does get a good running - roads and traffic permitting.

I\'m philisophical about it - at the end of the day the performance mods I want to put on would be better hanging on a newly built engine, so I am adopting that mindset for this one.

The big question is whether I get a street port or not at this stage.  I don\'t think Rotechnicks will do any porting - and I\'m not sure what they are going to say regarding the intended mods - but hoping to have a chat with David today regarding that - maybe go for a more limited warranty on the engine build.  At the end of the day, the mods are all designed to work together to produce more power safely - so who knows.

I think Carl used to do some rebuild work for Rotechnics in the past when they had too much on their plates - might be able to do some porting if you can get Carl involved?

Well spoke to David at Rotechnicks today, and showed him my list of intended mods - with a few items up for a slight tweek he seems to think it\'s a sensible plan.  I even get a 2 year warranty minus tip failure
 
And a mild street port it is then... :Thumbs-up
 
Given the slightly bigger turbo, and running much higher boost at 1 bar+ eventually, a street port will give it the freedom to breeth.  I declined the ceramic seals - at over £1K they are way too pricey for me.:eek :eek
 
So it\'s getting a rebuild and I\'ll be running it in just on spring boost to Christmas.  During that time I\'ll get the eManage in and start datalogging for a base map, then get the boost controller working the boost up to just above the old stock levels - say 9-10 psi, as the ECU has fuelling for that anyway.:)
 
Looks like I brought my Chrismas present to myself early this year !! :(

ok time for an update !
 
So we now know why it let go - it appears that the engine has overheated at some point - suspect it was when the water pump let go, although that was nearly 6 months ago, and the car has covered many miles since then...
 
The damage was there to see - curiosity got the better of me, so I asked Dave at Rotechnicks if I could take a look at the engine internals. The rotors are caked in charcoal, which wasn\'t surpising giving the oil usage.
 
The springs had all lost their sprung :( one of the corner seal springs was all but gone - the larger part of it seems to have attempted to exit via one of the intake ports, leaving a knick in the housing. There are also crack fractures in the rotor housing wall around the plug holes (on the inside).
 
They were surpised the engine was running at all given the state of the innards. :eek
 
So it\'s a rebuild with 2 new rotor housings for me - might get it back just in time for Christmas - bugger of a time for it to let go - might have to sell my body to get cash for the street porting. :p
 
Annoyingly as well, it will of course need running in - which is about 1 1/2 months driving to/from work.  I will do this before any performance mods besides the new turbo and hoses of course. :driving

sounds like a lot of damage there matey

i like the idea of porting it though :D

Stu

are you sure you don t want to have a go yourself Prof, there are plenty of people on here who can help

Actually thinking of doing that next year - when I get some of my Garage space back - going to aquire an old engine to do up, and then keep it as a spare. I\'ve rebuilt a piston engine a long time ago, which was a 2 cylinder 850cc Rotorvator - hardly a car engine - but the thing was seized good - had to grind the valve seats - the whole works - but got it running again.
 
I seem to have turned my hands to most things recently - plumbing, wiriing and the like.:D

ok - thought I had better post an update since the car has been off the road since November 1st ! :(:(
 
Rotechniks have rebuilt the engine, and it has new rotors and housings, since both were damaged in the original (seems it had overheated when the water pump failed - and this was with the water topped up straight away and pump replaced day after!
 
Since it was rebuild time it got ported (street) - well you would wouldn\'t you !
 
New turbo is on (hybrid Garrett front end T04B, and HT18 hot side with ported wastegate and hi flowed turbine), but since the engine will need running in no extra boost will be dialled in - it will be running spring only for the first 1000 miles, but there is a Profec B spec II lurking to handle over 1 bar of boost when the new piggy back ecu goes on and the engine\'s run in.
 
Nearly picked it up today, but a little oil drip near the turbo needs sorting first, as we don\'t want any fires !
 
New Racing Beat springs all round (these are purpose made for the vert, and don\'t lower it much - about 0.5 " tops - but they offer a harder and more progressive spring than stock). Also had all the bushes done, and engine mounts and gear box mounts, except dtss eliminators for now - might put them on later - I want to drive it first and see what she feels like. Rotechniks had it out for a spin today and it is apparently excellent in the twisties. Can\'t wait to drive it.
 
So left to do:
 
Fit the Greddy Emanage Ultimate, and get it data logging whilst I run it in - should have done the 1000 miles by the tunnel run - might have to go on some long weekend drives !
 
Once the engine is run in and the ECU and Wideband lambda fitted, it get\'s dyno\'d before putting the other toys on:
 
Water Injection courtesy of Coolingmist
Larger 800 Secondaries
Greddy Compression tube and Arc Intercooler
Water spray system for intercooler (optional - see what it does on the dyno)
Electric Rad Fan
Stepper Motor adjustable suspension - lazy mans option for adjusting the Koni\'s - bit of a DIY project.
 
Body wise - it needs front lip, side skirts and a spray, plus some finishing off on the lights

sounding good dave

looking forward to racing you on the strip :D :D

you will walk all over me with that set up - but i have never raced another FC before !! LOL

what BHP you expecting from it - circa 250 at the wheels ??

ive got the FMIC sat here waiting to be fitted , and the coil overs , and the exhaust etc...
 
Stu

Calculations show it could go as high as 360 at the fly - which is almost 300 at the wheels - 250 would be good to start with - but I might need to swap primaries for that as well, to avoid running the injectors at too high a duty cycle.  360 is achievable on paper with a slight increase in fuel pressure and running both primary and secondary injectors at 85% duty :)
 
This is easy with the Emanage Ultimate, as you just tell it the size of the new injectors and press a button - it calculates the fuel cut required automatically !
 
Not sure how much it will make with the boost controller just running it at 10 psi - as the Jap ecu that\'s in there has fuelling maps for that much boost anyway, and on a ported engine it should get close to Brett\'s 270 ish that he got on his TII.
 
Hence the plan :
 
Run in, datalogging, dyno, up the boost to 10 psi and re dyno, then after some more mapping, change secondaries, remap do another dyno (a few weeks later - build up the power in stages and get out of the cold weather before letting all that horespower out on the road ! )
 
I\'ve only raced skylines and scoobies - and they win all the time.  I think with the car still being heavy, it will still be in the 12-13 second mark on a 1/4 mile - but who knows :)
 
Roll on Monday !!

crickey - thats some nice figures

i think you are one of only a hand few of people doing this in a vert :D :D

sounds like its gonna be a mean machine :D :D

will scare some of the FD boys

keep up the good work matey

85% duty - oohhh safe

might have to get some 720\'s for mine - not sure if i will need them or not though

what fuel pump are you gonna run .. the 044 one ??

Quote from: grindermight have to get some 720\'s for mine - not sure if i will need them or not though

The 720\'s often come up on eBay for under £100 for a pair, I got my 800\'s from TPF Performance on eBay - they were under £100 new including shipping. They are a straight swap for the old 550\'s, and are not bored out units. It\'s easier to change the secondaries only, as you don\'t have to worry about idle and low RPM fueling changes, but it will run rich with bigger secondaries unless you can map it some how. Some of the ECU chips - like the later RTEC chips can be setup for bigger secondaries and allow you to run the stock ECU unit - check out the rx7club\'s ecu section
 

Quote from: grinderwhat fuel pump are you gonna run .. the 044 one ??

No - already running a Walboro\' unit - It flows better than the stock pump, and for less than 400 BHP this one is fine - if you go over 400 or change stock pressure by much, then this pump runs out of puff and you need to go for something like the Bosch or a Skyline pump - or I have seen someone using 2 of these in tandem ! :yes
 
I will be rewiring the pump, so it gets a better 12V flow and does not rely on the old weedy wiring to carry the suppy - just need to connect up the bits and move the fuel pump resisitor and relay to the boot. :)

Ok, time for some piccies as I have the car back from Rotechniks, and am now running it in. Not got the boost controller or wideband fitted yet, although one of the piccies below shows the bung where it will go. Also have to fit the Emanage in.
 
Once the run in is done, then the bigger intercooler and injectors go on, along with water injection and spray - plent of room in there now that the emissions stuff has gone. You can also see the new samco water hoses - still need to cut the top one for the rad thermostat switch. Also visible is the double belt pulley and smaller pully to allow the engine to run higher revs without stressing the water pump so much.

looking good matey

so i take it that the bigger turbo is on ??

Yep - you can just see the front compressor housing in the pics, it\'s a T04B 3" intake (not 2.5" like a stoker)  and stock pipe size out.  Wastegate is also ported to the maximum allowable, allowing significantly higher boost pressures to be controlled without overwhelming the tubby.  However the stock intercooler won\'t like to see more than 12 psi, so the ARC unit will allow much higher boost (~ 20 psi).
 
At the moment the wastegate control is fed directly off the compressor housing, so the turbo can only make spring boost - which is about 5-6 psi, this will be removed and replaced by the lines for the Greddy boost controller solenoid valve - which can sit near the shock tower to keep the pipe runs short :) :)  Without the air pump in the way this is a lot easier to get to now as well.

looking good Prof,  its nice to see a project that goes about things in a different way rather than the usual turbo\'s and Power FC

Quote from: ProfWastegate is also ported to the maximum allowable, allowing significantly higher boost pressures to be controlled without overwhelming the tubby.

the bigger wastegate will allow the turbo to run lower boost and prevent boost spike, the higher the boost you run the smaller the wastegate you can use.  When running low boost more exhaust gases need to go through the wastegate to stop boost spikes

Its all looking good Prof :D
How many miles have you done now?

I used to put in 2 hours every night until the engine was run in ;)

I forgot to check the speedo this morning, but a run to Dartford meet last night to pick up me sideskirts from Tony has helped put some mileage on it.
 
It\'s so frustrating keeping it below 4000 RPM ! :(
 
Towards the end of the run in I will stick the boost controller on and set it for 9 PSI - should be similar to a stock setup then, and then I can see what the new tubby feels like.
 
I suspect the Gearbox mounts are going to get swapped back for rubbers, as the hard polythene ones are just too noisy in the Cabin :eek:
 
Suspension feels nice - it handles lakes of water on the motorway much better now, and round the twisties at the weekend it was looking good, only a shame it couldn\'t have been in a lower gear with more welly, but the feel is much better.
 
Watch this space for some new in dash projects....

ok - prompted by Stu to update the winter project thread !
 
So what\'s happening ?
 
Post rebuild mileage now at 500 ish - the run to Reading twice tomorrow will add another 80 miles onto that - and another 100 miles before the tunnel run so that\'s 700 ish.
 
Seriuosly tempted to fit the boost controller for the tunnel run and run it at 8psi - running the wastegate off the compressor output is just too little even at 4000 rpm :(
 
Must excercise patience  !! :spank
 
I\'ve been measuring up the tubing I need for the ARC intercooler - so this is getting ordered next week when I get paid - ready to go on after the 1000 mile checkup.  I will post pics of this later this evening !
 
Also got fed up tinkering with my special gauge, so I have just put it back together as an A/F gauge - all be it with custom blue to red LEDs for a unique look !  Vid\'s to follow on another thread...
 
Lots of electrical work to do on the car, and all the plumbing for the water systems.
 
Also new to the project :
 
Custom centre dash display and electically adjustable suspension
 
So there we have it - anyone going to the old school meet will see the current state of play - might just have got the Wideband A/F done by then !

good man !!

kepp up the good work ( and the pics and vids :D )

Well the vid turned out to be pants - need to find a better video camera :(
 
Here are some stills showing Greddy compression tube, some silicon hose which is almost the right dimensions, but the diameter on the intercooler side is 3mm to big - so need to make up another hose piece.
 
Also shown is the ARC intercooler - about 50% larger area than stock, deeper, and with higher flow rate (lower pressure drop) than stock unit.

Ok, I was tempted to fit the boost controller for the tunnel run !
 
Bloody thing would not stick under the steering wheel to the left, the supplied double sided sticky pad wasn\'t all that sticky.  Really wanted to mount it here, as it\'s out of the way, and can\'t be tampered with by the passenger whilst driving - that rotary control is too tempting !
 
Finally hit on the idea of screwing through the lid of it and then reassembling the box onto the lid - a bit fiddly :(
 
End result doesn\'t look to bad - piccies tonight / later today -  might use the camera phone !
 
For tunnel run I kept the figures safe, as the car had still not done the 1000 miles run in, and I didn\'t want lot\'s of boost on - set the thing up for 10% duty, 10% gain and start boost of 0 psi - warning / limit set for 9.5 psi.  With these numbers I was getting a good 6.5 psi of boost and it holds flat.
 
Now the tunnel run helped pile on the miles, so I was able to see how this thing behaved over 4000/4500 rpm over the last couple of days - boost holds flat to over 5500 rpm - so time to dial in a little more.  Checked the peak boost - 10.2 was the most it\'s been too (must have been momentary, as the mechanical boost gauge never seems to show anything that high).
 
Changed the duty to 15% this morning, and start boost is now set to 3 - I left the gain alone for now - not messing with that until I know if it\'s spiking.  Now it\'s boosting to about 9 psi - but haven\'t been beyond 5700 rpm to see if it holds.   Also it\'s not noticeably faster to bring on boost and the peak value is still the same, so I haven\'t been over 10.2 with these settings either - which is good news. It does mean the start boost is probably still too low - will experiment with changing that and checking for spikes - see if I can\'t get the boost to come on a little quicker. Need to experiment a bit, but I want to get the car boosting to a level that\'s consistent with the capabilites of the ECU in the car - the piggy back and bigger injectors are not on yet, so the boost sould not be going over 10 psi for safety.
 
It does mean that the car now feels very similar to how it did before the rebuild :)
 
Had a little play with a Celica on the way in - he won, as I wasn\'t prepared to give it full on WOT yet until I know that\'s safe ! :spank
 
Have to order some more hose pieces to get that intercooler on - and some braided fuel lines whilst I\'ve got the intercooler and UIM off the car to replace the secondary injectors.
 
Next jobs
 
[LIST=1]

• Wideband lambda
• Greddy eManage Ultimate
• Dyno time
• Larger secondaries
• Intercooler and throttle inlet
• Water Injection

So it\'s getting there.

Have you considered mounting it where the drivers speaker grill is?

Otherwise, looks like you\'re on target for a few serious ponies :D

Quote from: BrettHave you considered mounting it where the drivers speaker grill is?
 
Otherwise, looks like you\'re on target for a few serious ponies :D

Yeh - I did consider that, but that place might be reserved for adjustable suspension - depends on how easy that will be to implement in terms of stepper motors fitting on top of the front shock towers.

How clearance is there from the strut top to the bonnet?

Quote from: BrettHow clearance is there from the strut top to the bonnet?

Good question - something similar to what I want to do was actually done on the American model  - can\'t remember if that was GXL or GTU, but they used 4 small stepper motors to adjust the shock stiffness from a switch in the cab.  I want to take that a stage further and allow independant adjustment of front / rear shock pairs from a rotary encoder - similar to the tein unit that retails for around £200-300.
 
From memory - their units sat \'in\' the top of the shock seat - on a small ali bracket.  I believe I even have some of the wiring loom still in place on my TII - the control box was in the back of the car.  There might be as much as an inch of space available, the top of the shock adjuster would be attached by a brass coupler to the stepper shaft.

must admit - it does sounds a cool toy dave :D

How is the adjustment made?  Is it free rotating switch on top of the strut thats simply moving a roary valve inside? (ie can you spin the selecter without needing to reverse it?)

 Are you going to have a closed loop system so that you know what each pairing is set to?

Quote from: BrettHow is the adjustment made? Is it free rotating switch on top of the strut thats simply moving a roary valve inside? (ie can you spin the selecter without needing to reverse it?)
 
Are you going to have a closed loop system so that you know what each pairing is set to?

Arh - these things might be secret...
 
 
.... no serioulsy the rotary switch is just a quadrature encoder - so in simple english it\'s just a pair of switches that turn on and off 90 degrees out of phase depending on which direction you turn it in.  Push it and a 3rd switch operates.  For those with a Greddy boost controller you will be familiar with the control.  This will be read by a little microcontroller (I am going to cheat and use someone elses code - as there is no point reinventing the wheel), which will use the number of pulses to rotate the stepper motors - and hence stiffen / loosen the shocks.  In order to first calibrate it, I will probably have to back the shocks right off to one end or the other, and then the number of turns available can be entered as a one time parameter to set the thing up.  Then the control is simple operated to adjust the suspension as required.  For Koni\'s I believe it\'s 15 turns for full adjustment.  The stepper motors usually work in increments of 0.9, 1.8 or 7.5 degrees, so (shock turns) x 360 / (step angle) is the number of steps lock to lock as it were.  Once you reach either limit the control will not adjust any more in that direction.  The values can be displayed on an LCD as \'stiffness\' or as a bargraph or something.  Unit will remember the settings when it\'s off, so there is no need for a feedback sensor.
 
So that\'s the plan really.

Cool :D

Whens it going to be ready?

Are you going o have the car at the old skool meet?

Yep - coming to the old school meet - won\'t have the suspension gizmo on - that might be ready for Rotorstock, but there\'s a lot to do on the car before I put that on.
 
I am hoping to get the wideband on - but looking at the weather - that\'s a bit hopeful.  It isn\'t too many wires, so should not be an overly long job to do.  I need to get that and the eManage on (long job !!) so I can start data logging it and see if/where it\'s lean and so on, plus intake temps etc.
 
See you guys at Era\'s !

Well, I know it\'s not winter anymore, but I fancied working on the car after helping the missus with her BOV\'s Friday/Saturday.
 
So checked my BOV - it doesn\'t seem to be making the noises it should - but the piston is ok, and the vac lines too - otherwise the boost gauge and controller would be all over the shop.
 
That done, I decided to tidy up the air intake a bit, as I still have some pipes that belong to Rotechnicks, and I figured I could get my stuff to fit in there. I have also been having some lumpy idle from time to time, and a suspect area for an air leak was where the crank case return pipe was fed through a hole in the silicon sleeving attached to the turbo.
 
Off came all the intake, and installed a straight through 3" section, 1 45 degree bend attaching the system to the turbo and the then the hose coupler to the MAF and HKS mushroom. The mushroom now sits quite a bit higher, and is much closer to the intake feed across the top of the rad - hopefully bringing cooler air in.
 
I have attached some piccies - 2nd shot shows the old dog leg arrangment - compare with piccy 1 a single gentle bend :

Also a few shots of other bits happening in the car - there is the LC-1 and it\'s lambda - downpipe now looking like a porcupine, as it has the original lambda still in and working too !
 
The wiring is ready for the eManage, but I have used the second analog feed to drive the original A/F meter - which now shows a much more meaningful reading of A/F - none of that bouncing back and forward lark.
 
2 Meter shots showing the Lambda sensor reading at warm up, and then the reading with the motor off (suprise suprise - it\'s very lean and so it should be)  Gauge runs from Blue (lean like air) to Red (for rich), going through cyan, green yellowish green, yellow, orange and then finally red.
 
Finally a shot of the Profec boost controller, showing under dash mounting - excuse the untidy wires - I haven\'t cable tidied them yet.

Hi Prof, your positioning of the Lambda probe is too close to the turbo. The bosch sensor last longer about 3 foot further down. Coming along nicely though!

John

Quote from: 88GT-RHi Prof, your positioning of the Lambda probe is too close to the turbo. The bosch sensor last longer about 3 foot further down. Coming along nicely though!
 
John

I was worried about that a bit, but the temps at that point in the exhaust are within spec, and a few other folks running these have them about a foot from the Turbo - the picture is a little deceptive - the sensor is quite a way down the header - about 16" I think.  It\'s not thrown up any error codes yet on the LC-1 so let\'s see how long it lasts there.
 
Next job is wiring the eManage in :(

wow looks like things are going rather well,good luck with mapping and more boost.

chris

Prof when are you gonnna have power figures ?

Congrats on all the work sure it will pay off well for you..

Quote from: strange_days_ukProf when are you gonnna have power figures ?
 
Congrats on all the work sure it will pay off well for you..

Hopefully getting a dyno run at Surrey Rolling road in the next 2 weeks before the bigger injectors and tuning of eManage are done, so I can get power curves for 2 runs - without boost controller and then one with \'lo\' boost.  This will give me some idea of what the street ported engine and larger turbo are doing for the car - sort of a base benchmark.

ok - been doing a bit of ally sheet fabbing - cheap and cheerful I\'m afraid.  Made a bracket carrier for the ultimate, which is going to live next door to the old ECU - 2 pics one shows approximate location of the eManage unit, the other shows the bracket on it\'s own.
 
Then one last bit of ally work was a small bracket to carry the GM 3 BAR MAP sensor and a fuse box and relay box for the electric rad fan and water injection.
 
Soon will come the daunting task of splicing the loom - which from the looks of it has been done a few times already (and not all by me neither :Nono! )

Prof,
just found this thread i know we had a chat at Ace but wow you have been busy, nice to see the project coming along, i\'m still waiting for Tokcio shock mounts for Mine (another 3 weeks!) it been a knighmare having it sat in the garage with the nice weather, had to move it yesterday to do a garage tidy, after charging the battery the night before (shes been sat for about 4 weeks already) started first time which was nice drove it 15 foot out of the garage let her warm up ok sorted the garage and moved her back!!
im rebooked at WGT for the 11th May which should give me enough time to fit the mounts
keep up the good work im sure you will reach that 300BHP fiquire

Mark

I have the electronic adjustable shocks on mine if you need pics etc.

Quote from: colin5524I have the electronic adjustable shocks on mine if you need pics etc.

That would be most appreciated - I have the diagrams from the PDF service manual - but piccies are so much better !   I did manage to find some quite small stepper motors - but the Koni Shocks are quite stiff, and I am not sure if they will have enough torque when used as direct drive - which would mean some sort of gearing required.  This part of the project has taken a back burner whilst I get the eManage plumbed in - ready for the MOT and emissions test :(

So it was bite the bullet time today - time to splice the old loom ready for the eManage to go in.
 
This was a job of 3 parts :
 
Part1) Modify the existing loom so that the injectors and ingition, airflow meter, pressure gauge and so on can be rerouted through to the eManage - this meant cutting each of these lines and then inserting a plug and socket between the cut ends - these are grouped by function (Igniton, Air Metering, Injectors) and there were also 7 other signals that the eManage will share with the existign ECU - these wires were not cut, but a socket connected by bearing the wire and looping it / soldering into a spade.
 
Part2) Modify the eManage loom so that it\'s connectors mate with those prepared in Part1).
 
Part3) Additonal wiring and circuits for Water Injection / Spray and electric Radiator.
 
Well Part1) is done, and the car was road tested afterwards to make sure I didn\'t screw up any of the wiring ! :driving :Giggle
 
Here is a piccy of the finished loom hack - the White Connector blocks (Farnell) are ideal for the job, as they make a good locking connection, are heat, chemical and weather resistant and use a spade type connector.  All joins are crimped then soldered.

so you already have a tuned ECU in there - and then gonna run the emanage ontop of that

could be interesting to tune as you will have 2 things changing the readings

to be honest , if i was you , i would be tempted to find a stock ECU ?? ( just a thought )

Quote from: grinderso you already have a tuned ECU in there - and then gonna run the emanage ontop of that
 
could be interesting to tune as you will have 2 things changing the readings
 
to be honest , if i was you , i would be tempted to find a stock ECU ?? ( just a thought )

I did wonder about that - but the good thing is, the eManage Ultimate comes preset to do nothing - just allows the signals to pass through unmolested.  So the first job once it\'s fitted will be to do some logging runs - watching things like injector duty versus RPM and boost, and A/F ratio\'s.  I can then see where the existing ECU is letting the side down (if it is), and map the upper portions of the tables that the \'stock\' ecu can\'t handle.  From the A/F reading\'s I have, the chipped ECU runs pretty rich and seems to be able to fuel upto 13-14 psi no problems, but the boost sensor doesn\'t go much beyond that, so I will use the eManage to produce an \'FCD\' for the orignal ECU, then do all the higher end mapping on a 3 BAR MAP sensor from GM - this area of the map will only be seen by the eManage - the stock ECU will assume the signals it\'s being fed relate to lower boost readings.
 
Also, the change of seconday injectors to 800 cc ones is just a couple of clicks for the eManage - it automatically trims fuel by the correct percentage for the larger injector.
 
I still have my old stock ECU if this one presents a problem, but I am fairly convinced that the eManage will effectively \'contain\' the parameters for the existing ECU within the areas that would still be stock.

yeah makes sense :D

i like the idea that you can run the emanage to do nothing - its a nice set up that way - and just watch the logging to see what the chipped ECU is doing - then just fine tune what it cant ( as you say the higher end of the boost / rev range )

will be a serious toy once you have finished :D

Quote from: grinderyeah makes sense :D
 
i like the idea that you can run the emanage to do nothing - its a nice set up that way - and just watch the logging to see what the chipped ECU is doing - then just fine tune what it cant ( as you say the higher end of the boost / rev range )
 
will be a serious toy once you have finished :D

It\'s already not slow with that bigger turbo and the street porting - first time I let it go round the clock on the rev gauge I nearly needed new undies - the car has never been slow, but it was a little like having a second turbo.  It really belts along now, and I find myself rarely planting the right foot all the way down anymore - just no need ;)
 
I really do need to get a dyno trip done before I tune the eManage or put the larger injectors / intercooler on.  Also the WI must go on before the hotter summer days come to raise intake temps.  At least with the eManage I can see what these actually are now.
 
I expect to get about 270-290 with the car as it is now, and 340-360 once all the mods are made.
 
Also going to order another set of 800cc injectors to go in the primaries once I am happy that all is working as it should be, and that cooling is able to cope - that should see the figure closer to 380-400 - it will be time to stop then I think - except for perhaps fitting a charge cooler in place of the TMIC. :yes
 
One interesting thing I noted whilst wiring the new connectors in, a previous owner has definitely had some performance mods done in the past - all 4 injector wires were spliced, the Intake and Boost wires, the O2 and knock sensors and the old boost solenoid. :rolleyes: :3Confused

hummm i wonder what the car was running then ???

sounds like some serious figures though

i know single turbo FD\'s running a touch over 400 - so you will be hot on their heels :D :D :D

Quote from: grinderhummm i wonder what the car was running then ???
 
sounds like some serious figures though
 
i know single turbo FD\'s running a touch over 400 - so you will be hot on their heels :D :D :D

I think both me and the car will need to diet though - LOL :rollin

ha ha ha - not sure what you can strip out of the cab to make it lighter

as the added lots of strenghening to keep it rigid

Spent a lot of today getting the harness for the eManage wired up - basically it will mate with the harness on the old ECU, which I have already wired the connectors to/into.
 
Here are some pics - first one shows the harness in the raw state - I stripped about 2 foot of the black sleeving off it, as it\'s miles too long.
 
Second pic shows the connectors that will mate with those on the old loom.
 
For those interested in what signals are used:
 
Injectors in/out (4 Way)- allows the eManage to cut fuel as well as add
 
Ignition in/out (2 Way) - Leading/Trailing
 
Airflow in/out and MAP in/out - (2 Way) - allows mapping out the airflow meter, and creating an FCD for the stock pressure sensor - a GM 3 bar sensor will provide the new boost readings
 
Vehicle Speed (1 Way) for the launch control, Clutch (1 Way) for flat changing
 
TPS, Engine Air Temp, Water Temp, (4 Way)
 
Crank (G, NE) and BAC Duty (4 Way)  These signals will be used to control autotune, ignition timing, electric rad, water injection and the BAC duty is to adjust emissions on low idle and adjust the idle itself
 
There are other outputs that will feed Intake temp warning, Water Pump and Water Pump Duty cycle, Water spray for the intercooler, and electric Rad - these are brought out on a 6 Way connector

Looks like you\'re going to be doing some serious playing in the near future.. :yes

Yep - just need to be brave enough to plumb it in and stick the laptop on it - you\'re never quite sure what happens first time you turn it on :Giggle :Hammer

lol! Know what you mean!

Whats the software side of things like?  Can you have a play around with the software without it being connected to the ECU?
Does the unit come with a base setting thats deemed \'safe\'?

I think that is a yes to both of those questions - the default mapping is for it to do nothing - it can monitor the signals, but does not alter them in any way - inputs map directly to outputs.
 
I will most likey wire 12 volts up to it and see if I can\'t set most of the settings up before I wire it into the car - at least this way I will only have to setup the TPS and then I can get cracking. :yes

Sounds like a plan :D

Well due to my mishap this has taken a back seat whilst the car was repaired.  It\'s all running well again now, and it\'s MOT time Friday - just getting the car sorted for that.
 
Work that I did manage to do:
 

• Painted front calipers blue, still got rears to do.
• Removed old rubber lip - ready for the aftermarket one to go on.
• Thermo switch for the upper rad hose is now in.

Emanage still not fitted, but it\'s almost ready to go.  Need to build water injection controller now.
 
 
Car will be getting a new paint job straight after Jap Show - so all the dinks, knocks, rust and other horrors are going to be gone :cheers :driving

Project is back on again :)
 
Painted rear calipers - rear drivers side had siezed so was replaced - many thanks to Tony for the spare :)
 
Front lip is bolted on. Paint job is delayed - pending funds and I wanted to keep the car going over the summer - wrong time to paint it really.
 
Prompted by Brett, I have included some pictures of the ARC intercooler - which I\'ve repaired - for size comparison with the stock one. It holds pressure well, but not tested in anger (only tested to 1 Bar, off the car)
 
I will also be posting some pics of the little gizmo I\'ve had to build to go between the stock ECU and the eManage, so that they play nicely ;) - I\'ve still got a bit of work to do on it first.
 
So here are the pics of the intercoolers...

Thanks Prof! :wave

 And your sure you want to keep it? ;) :Giggle

 How long do you think before your mapped and running in anger?

Can you give me some more details on what wires you are using coming from the emanage to control the elec fan/water spray and monitor the water pump + duty?
 I\'ve just finished soldering my ultimate up to my mini loom (made from old ecu connectors), but I didnt see anything in the manual about controlling/monitoring the stuff mentioned above, or the BAC for that matter..!
Any extra details about how you\'re setting up the elec fan relays etc would be goooood.
Ta

Ok - here is a word doc with table of connectors in it.
 
The water injection pump will be controlled by PWM circuit that\'s not part of the eManage, but is fed with 2 signals that originate from there.  One signal turns on the Water pump, and the other was designed to operate a high speed valve or fuel injector.  The PWM circuit combines these and controls the pump speed/pressure using those signals.  That controller will also monitor water level in the tank, and Intake temp and shut off the Water injection and kill the boost controller if it detects failure (fail safe mode)
 
When using the eManage with a rotary, you have 4 injector/relay outputs that can drive additional injectors or relays.  I use 2 of the outputs wired as warning relays (water to control the radiator fan, and intake to control water spray and shut off boost if on for prolonged periods).  One output was desinged to feed a fuel injector or high speed valve to control water injection, but is now being used to feed a PWM controller instead.  Finally, the NVCS map on the eManage is used to control a relay to operate water sprayer so it can also be mapped (so there are 2 outputs controlling water spray and a manual overide button as well).  The Water injection pump output comes from the VTEC output map, as that allows fuel trimming.
 
Finally, I intend on using the Idle Adjustment Map to monitor the BAC duty and adjust fuelling for the idle (to help get it through MOT ;) ) - this is covered on page 43 of the Operation Manual, and page 14 of the Install Guide.  The BAC valve output is on pin 3Q of the ECU.

Legend. Just give me a week to understand it all :)

Does that mean by using both the water and intake temps as relays you dont have the knock sensor wired up?

Yep - not using knock on the eManage - I have got it wired into the stock ECU still.
 
The other 2 inputs are more useful.  It\'s a shame I can\'t have all three though :rolleyes:
 
Actually one of the reasons behind that decision was that the knock sensing wasn\'t working till later firmware versions, and that you need the water temp wired up to use the autotune feature.
 
Since Intake temps are more likely to give an early warning of possible knock, rather than knock sensor itself, which is detecting that knock is happening you can do more with it.

Nice to see it coming along again Dave, stupid question knock and knock sensor?

learning as we go!!

Mark

Knocking - as described by the Wikipaedia site:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking)
 
And the knock sensor is basically just a sensitive microphone that\'s tuned to pickup frequencies around 5-6Khz, which are the most prominent when knocking occurs.  It usually bolts directly into the engine block.
 
In the FC, the knock sensor signals are fed back to the ECU, amplified and used to retard ignition, so it\'s questionable how effective that is if overboosting or too high an intake temp is the cause of it.

How did you learn how to tune the car anyway Dave, I was wondering if theres a step by step type guide to fuel and ignition timing??
 
As far as I can tell;
Fuel; Lean back the mixture to around 14 using a wideband, whilst keeping an eye on the EGT, and progressing from map to map for each scenario (i.e. temp compensation, lift off etc)
Timing; Advance the timing until knock is detected, whilst keeping an eye on the EGT\'s.
Other than that I\'m not really sure about the specifics.

Quote from: ProfKnocking - as described by the Wikipaedia site:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking)
 
And the knock sensor is basically just a sensitive microphone that\'s tuned to pickup frequencies around 5-6Khz, which are the most prominent when knocking occurs.  It usually bolts directly into the engine block.
 
In the FC, the knock sensor signals are fed back to the ECU, amplified and used to retard ignition, so it\'s questionable how effective that is if overboosting or too high an intake temp is the cause of it.

thanks Dave i didn\'t think it would be a good thing!!!

Mark

Quote from: BenLewisMavHow did you learn how to tune the car anyway Dave, I was wondering if theres a step by step type guide to fuel and ignition timing??
 
As far as I can tell;
Fuel; Lean back the mixture to around 14 using a wideband, whilst keeping an eye on the EGT, and progressing from map to map for each scenario (i.e. temp compensation, lift off etc)
Timing; Advance the timing until knock is detected, whilst keeping an eye on the EGT\'s.
Other than that I\'m not really sure about the specifics.

I think learning is more the way it is :)
 
I\'ve been following some threads on rx7club and Fc3spro over in the states, and also the innovate motorsports and emanage forums.  From what I\'ve read, most people don\'t lean out beyond about mid 12\'s on the AFR - you can go higher nearer the bottom, but you want to watch leaning it out too much at the top end, unless your damn sure of your ignition timing and charge temps.  You don\'t get a 2nd chance with a rotary engine :(
 
I was working on the basis that I only have to tune in 3 areas with the emanage, as the stock ECU is going to do the rest for me.
 
1)  MOT \'map\' - basically set aside a dip switch with selectable maps to allow the car to pass the emissions test (idle adjust, AFM, Injector and Ignition maps).  Going to use the wideband to tune these, with a bit of time on a gas analyser.
 
2)  WOT \'map\' - tuning for the upper part of the RPM/BOOST curves - again switch selectable - these will use the GM 3 BAR map sensor which will track boost levels beyond the stock sensor.  I plan to use the Analog in/analog out to provide an \'FCD\', and the emanage will look after all the upper part of the map beyond that, since the stock ECU will no longer be changing the map.  I plan on using the autotune feature to populate this map on the dyno and drving the car.
 
3) WI \'map\' - this will use the last dip switch - fine tuning of the Injector and Ignition maps for the water injection, and water temp and intake temp compensation.  These will be tweaked by hand using the wideband gauge.

Hey Prof,
 
Any updates? Interested in your final power figure. Also wanted to know how you went fitted the ARC intercooler and how it performs. Anyways, interesting thread.

Been a bit lazy of late - not done much on the car since firing it up on the eManage and then taking it straight off again due to overfuelling.
 
I\'ve pretty much finished the little mod I was working on - but too much working on the house has meant that\'s been delayed :(
 
I\'ve 2 days off coming soon - so hope to get quite a bit further with this.  Not tested the ARC intercooler yet, aside from a static pressure test to sound out my repair on it.
 
Keep watching... :cheers

Better update this thread then !
 
So it rolling roaded without the eManage and made 317BHP at the Fly.
 
I am waiting on the intercooler from Pace - it\'s getting recored so that should be back with me any day now.
 
I have also built and tested the little gizmo box that will interface between the eManage and the stock ECU - but a byproduct of doing that is that I\'m going to use that device to feed an LCD screen with Air/Water temp values.  It\'s workng on the \'bench\', but hasn\'t been tested in the car - I shall be finishing the display portion this week, and it will go on at the weekend.  Pics will follow...
 
Once that\'s done, the eManage can go back on, along with:
 
Electric Rad Fan from a Volvo T70
800cc Secondary Injectors
Greddy Compression Tube
ARC Intercooler
 
Then there is the water injector/sprayer to start putting together.  It\'s a hybrid kit made from CoolingMist/Devilsown and some other eBay parts - along with a custom made progressive controller with it\'s own gauge and some hozelock irrigation bits for the sprayer - don\'t laugh - this stuff was awsome when used at 50-60psi on the coolingmist pump.  More Details and pics and a diagram will follow to explain this heath robinson setup.

As Promised, pitcure of the gizmo that will allow the eManage to play nice with the ECU.
 
There is also a vid of the test setup in action.
 
The final version will be a 2 line display, with an inverse LCD that will be blue but turns red if either air or water temps go over a set limit (set in the firmware).
 
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/th_lcd_temp_vid.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/?action=view¤t=lcd_temp_vid.flv)

good custom work I like it

Very nice your a cleaver chap Dave (PS love the Xmas tree and model cars!)

Mark

loving the temp display - do you NEED the emanage for this to work ?

Quote from: grinder;495583loving the temp display - do you NEED the emanage for this to work ?

Nope - the circuit has a quad op amp - I\'m only using 3 of them, all they do is amplify the signals by 1 (no amplification), but the output can deliver more current and does not alter the input signal.  This means when I do connect up the eManage again it won\'t screw up my temp signals.
 
Since I had the water and air temp signals available I used them. The little 8 pin chip is a PIC microcontroller - it takes the voltages and converts them into a digital value, but as thermistors are logarithmic devices, you either have to do some math on the value to get a temp display or cheat like I did and pass the values to a big lookup table - the results are then turned into serial signal for the display device to read (they could go to a datalogger or PC as well).
 
The biggest headache is finding a decent looking case to put the display into - I yobbed an old Meridian phone in the end - as they have a 2x24 line display, although I\'m using my own lcd and a customised driver board.

i bow down to your genuis !!

so whats the odds of you knocking a few more of these out :D

so i would assume that it uses the stock sensors for the temps ?

This one was built on veroboard, so a bit of a custom job.
 
Circuit could easily be modded just to output temp signals and not buffer them for eManage, so a dual opamp could be used (8 pin chip).  That would make the board a lot smaller and simpler - plus it could use the 5v ref signal that feeds the other sensors on the car, saving on the voltage regulators.
 
The hardest part was the coding in the chip - but I\'ve done that now, so I could knock up a pcb board design and see how small it could be made.
 
Connections would be :
 
Ground
+5V REF
IAT
Water Thermo
Serial Out
Serial Ground
 
Then you just need to find a nice cheap serial LCD - such as the Matrix Orbital series.
 
If there\'s interest in it I could make up a run of boards, and get someone to market them.
 
Parts aren\'t expensive as it happens - the \'sender\' unit was about £10-15 worth of parts, and the LCD display was about £30 for display, case and parts.  Cheap compared to 2 gauges :)

and would look cool as hell in the FC :D

would just need somewhere to mount it so that it looks neat !!

as you say - cheap compared to 2 gauges

could you do a 3 line one with oil temp ( although i dont think there is an oil temp sensor in the car anywhere )

Should be possible to do more sensors - the pic code can be moved to a larger pic device, as the one I\'m using is crammed full ! :)
 
I managed to get a cheap phone to house the lcd display, but it would be nice to get a custom display case / guage sorted out - The Matrix Orbital ones fit in a 5 1/4" drive bay - so they are quite large - but would go in the DIN mounting I think. I did toy with the idea of taking out the centre vents - but I kind of like them and there useful for keeping the hands warm when driving with the roof down on occasions - so they are not getting touched :D
 
As for temp sensors - I would need to know the resistance at 2 temp points - ideally 25C and say 80C, then I can match up the thermistor that was used as the sender. I have an Excel spreadsheet with the formula plumbed in, which calculates all the other points to make the lookup tables.

did you eat engineering and electronics books as a baby Dave ?? We are just mere puppets to your wisdom and fountain of knowledge.  Apexi does a similar sort of thing in their new turbo timer which does the old lean and rich bit as well as the timer function.. Not sure where they tapped into the sytem though but imagine at the ECU end. You could incorporate so many imputs in just one gauge.

Wow, thats rather good :yes

Although I got ever so slightly confused how you did it! :Giggle

Quick update on this - the custom temp gauge thing is in the car and was tested on a warmup yesterday, and on the run in to work this morning.  The display bit still needs a bit of finishing - but it\'s working a treat.
 
On the warmup it started at 15 degrees water temp and steadily rose to 81/82 degrees.  If I revved it a bit I could get it up to 86.
 
Air temps started at 20 and rose to 42 by the end of my testing - not suprised as the car was stationary.
 
On this mornings run I got water temps up to 92/93 for a brief period, after a bit of WOT action up a hill, as I then got stuck in some slower traffic - but the stock rad works really well in the current air temps and had the water temp back down to 84 in a few seconds.  It does show how damped the temp gauge is in the car - as that never moves off the half way mark.   Air temps were a suprise - got up to 44 at one point, but after a section of spirited running, the intercooler was knocking 10 degrees C off that - and I\'ve still got the stock one plumbed in.
 
Pic\'s will follow once I\'ve smartend up the case a bit and decided where to mount the thing.  :driving

That little gauge / readout looks very tasty!

How easy would it be to adapt to the FD? :D

Quote from: logicalChimp;502695That little gauge / readout looks very tasty!
 
How easy would it be to adapt to the FD? :D

In theory this should be easily adaptable to any engine - the main issue is getting the values for the thermistor\'s which are what\'s used in the temperature sensors on the car.  The service manual gives the resistance of these at 2 temperatures - 25 and 80 and from that it\'s possible to put these values into a spreadsheet and get the intermediate resistances - and hence voltages - as all thermistors tend to follow a set logarithmic curve.
 
The biggest problem for me was the display case - as no one makes a nice looking case for an LCD display that isn\'t an ugly square box.  Possibly if I change the display I would go for a 52mm gauge with an LED/LCD readout.

Here is a pic and some vids of the device in action :cheers
 
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/temp_display/DSC00312.jpg)
 
This one was first thing - warming up:
 
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/temp_display/th_MOV00315.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/temp_display/?action=view¤t=MOV00315.flv)
 
and this one is taken at work - after a 25 minute run - intake temps had been below 40 the whole journey - but they start going up once the car is sat still.
 
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/temp_display/th_MOV00316.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/temp_display/?action=view¤t=MOV00316.flv)
 
 
The Intake Air temp has been as high as 60 after getting back in the car when it\'s been sat with the engine off for 20 minutes - this is all heat from the engine getting in and around the sensor. Time to lag the inlet pipe from the intercooler ?
 
Just for the record, the water temp goes up in 5 degree increments from 0 to 50, then increments normally after that.  The display will go red if the water temp goes over 91 degrees, or if the intake air goes over 90 (I might lower that alarm value)

now thats IMPRESSIVE dave

im liking that A LOT !!!!!!!!!!

shame you cant do a 2 line 2 colomn one that shows

Air      == xx               Oil = xx
Water == xx               Oil P = xx

now that would be very very very cool

dave ...

i have read you thread about 3 times now .. and im loving the gauge !

could you make the display act as a wide band ??

surely that works on a static range of values ??

or would the LCD not react quick enough

can you recommend any books to read to learn this stuff - or is it just down to the fact that you know what you are doing :D

Have you tried putting the air con on to blow hot air? Would be interesting to se how much of an effect it has

I\'ve got some books knocking around on basic PIC programing - maplin used to do ao good beginners range too. :)

Quote from: grinder;503327now thats IMPRESSIVE dave
 
im liking that A LOT !!!!!!!!!!
 
shame you cant do a 2 line 2 colomn one that shows
 
Air == xx Oil = xx
Water == xx Oil P = xx
 
now that would be very very very cool

 
As the display part is just a serial display with a programmable backlight - that should be possible - the sensor reader only reads the 2 inputs, but the chip I used could handle 4 inputs - so as long as there are senders that feed the stock ECU, or alternatively adding your own, then it can be done.
 
As to displaying AFR\'s - the stock lambda sensor is a narrowband so it\'s not suitable for the job - and aftermarket wideband controller could be used - they usually have analogue outputs you can hook into - with the advantage they are linear so don\'t need big lookup tables.  I have another project on the boil for that one though - watch this space for an even cooler gauge...

Quote from: Brett;503334I\'ve got some books knocking around on basic PIC programing - maplin used to do ao good beginners range too. :)

If anyone wants the code for either or both parts of the project I am happy to provide it - it\'s in PIC assembler - but the chips used are common and easily available.
 
I had to make the buffer device for the air and water signals as the eManage wasn\'t working well with the stock ECU - and since I had the signals there - it became another project to display them - it will actually help in setting up the eManage as well - so it was worth my while :)

could you not just add a wide band 02 sensor and use the native out put from that ( surely its just a voltage ) rather than having to use the controller ??

so you can have 4 out puts ... not sure what the 4 most important things are to check , and thats down to personal choice at the end of the day

i assume that you can monitor oil pressure as the incar gauge has that ?

The wideband O2 sensors are just a sensor element and heater - you\'d need to run the heater for starters - but that can be done, but the sensor element is very non linear - and not in a good way either.  Much like the narrow band lambda\'s, they have a large change in signal just around the stoich point - what the controllers do is linearize the output for you, along with controlling the heater, so that the validity of the reading can be given.  It\'s a shame as the sensors are much cheaper than a wideband controller - although the LC-1 can be had for £130 with a 4 wire bosch sensor.
 
The massive advantage with these is that you can program the analog outputs to any value within the 0-5 v range - which means you could set the output so that an AFR of 14.7 came out as 1.47 volts - very useful for displaying AFR\'s on a multimeter.

Dave, for my tank for the 2 stroke oil I am going to use a spare water overflow tank and put it at the front of the car with the other. Going to take out the plastic intake bit and out it there.  My cold air feed will come elsewhere. Its plenty high enough and will not even be noticed.  Its got no level sensor but i might use one from an old brake reservoir I have, going to tap into the squirter low water level system for the warning light. I will more than likey swop the tanks so that the water overflow is on the right hand side as you look from the front, this will keep the feed hose to a minimum and more direct.

Quote from: pdtaylor18;503837Dave, for my tank for the 2 stroke oil I am going to use a spare water overflow tank and put it at the front of the car with the other. Going to take out the plastic intake bit and out it there. My cold air feed will come elsewhere. Its plenty high enough and will not even be noticed. Its got no level sensor but i might use one from an old brake reservoir I have, going to tap into the squirter low water level system for the warning light. I will more than likey swop the tanks so that the water overflow is on the right hand side as you look from the front, this will keep the feed hose to a minimum and more direct.

I\'m using a catch can with the clear plastic pipe on the side.  Going to drill and tap a 1/8 npt hole at the bottom so I can fit a hose barb, and that will then feed the adapter via a braided fuel/oil line.  It holds about 1/2 L, so I reckon that would last a good few fills of the petrol tank - so may not bother with a level sensor, although I\'m experimenting with capacitive liquid level monitoring - which I will use for the water injection tank - that\'s something that\'s likely to empty much quicker ;)

I was going to go the catch can way but then thoght of the overfill bottle, that must hold a litre easily and then it will almost be un-noticeable, i\'m going to replace the charcoal cannister with a catch can. Trying to get the engine bay as uncluttered as I can.  Big delema is to keep air con or not.  The positives are plainly to see and especially more room for the intercooler pipework but something in my head says keep it.  But because its the old style gas it will cost £200 to get it converted to later spec unless anyone knows of a cheap DIY way of doing it. The above cost was a quote from a specialist.

Pete - there is an equivalent you can use - R34 iirc, used it in my old TII with no probs :wave

Hmm sounds a good setup for my WI...
A coolant overflow bottle rigged up with a brake fluid level sender, routed to an LED and buzzer on the dash, also going to the Microtech 12v in to retard the ign. timing and add more fuel when the WI runs out...

Have you considered a Windscreen/ pop up headlight washer Res. instead of the coolant overflow? (i dont actually have a spare coolant overflow res. hanging around). I guess the coolant overflow bottle actually has the right clips etc on it for mounting.

well i do have the pop up wash bottle but it will be mounted too low unless i get a pump on it.  Also its hard to tell the contents if its mounted in the original position. I will never need this so its yours if you want.  Think it comes with low level sensor built in. i will check.  The overflow is about the right height and will mount with no probs. it also stops the clutter within the bay to a minimum.
I think i only have one spare overflow bottle but i will check, think it will only hold 1-2 litres max.

Quote from: Brett;504140Pete - there is an equivalent you can use - R34 iirc, used it in my old TII with no probs :wave

Is the R34 freely available? be nice to have the option of aircon.  I know it may sound silly when you have a cab but believe it or not, its nice to have the roof up on some hot days so aircon would be rather nice and especially with leather seats.

Quote from: BenLewisMav;504163Hmm sounds a good setup for my WI...
A coolant overflow bottle rigged up with a brake fluid level sender, routed to an LED and buzzer on the dash, also going to the Microtech 12v in to retard the ign. timing and add more fuel when the WI runs out...
 
Have you considered a Windscreen/ pop up headlight washer Res. instead of the coolant overflow? (i dont actually have a spare coolant overflow res. hanging around). I guess the coolant overflow bottle actually has the right clips etc on it for mounting.

 
You could just put a relay in circuit with the boost controller solenoid - if you\'ve an aftermarket one.  That way you can cut the extra boost when you run out of water - as it won\'t be needed on just spring boost - save you bothering with all that extra tuning for the Microtech

R34 is commercially available ASFAIK, so any outfit should be able to sort you out :)

(Assuming the system is intact with no leaks?)

Well - time for an update again :(
 
Tried connecting the eManage back in yesterday - with similar results - runs rich - but actually not as bad as last time so there is some progress.
 
I ran a few checks with the engine running - rpm and throttle reading ok, but the eManage has no clue about water temp and intake temp - the readings are well off - need to investigate that further.
 
I also checked the error codes with the eManage plumbed in, as I had some idea why it was still overfuelling...
 
I got errors :
 
8,42,71 and 73 of the stock ECU - these are AFM, Boost Solenoid, and Front and Rear Secondary injectors - there is no code or check made for primaries - as your car wouldn\'t even start if these were out.  So that explains the overfuelling now.
 
The injector problem is easy to solve, - the stock ECU is looking for a load of around 12-12 ohms on the outputs, and the eManage ultimate isn\'t providing it - so looks like I have to make another gizmo box with 4 12-15 ohm resistors in it and provide the necessary load on the stock injector outputs.  The other end of the resistors would connect to the injector positive rail.
 
Not worried about the Bost Solenoid fault code - I don\'t have the stock one - although I may wire in a resistor just to get clean readings in future.
 
That just leaves the AFM code - really not sure why this is being thrown by the stock ECU - I\'m using the Ultimates airflow adjustment map, but with all values set to 0 (no change) at the moment - and the voltage in / voltage out are exactly the same - so again I\'m guessing the stock ECU needs to see a certain loading on the pin, and the eManage isn\'t providing it.
 
On a plus note, I\'ve made some adjustments to the boost controller and have a much improved power band as a result.  The lag on the turbo is reduced and the car feels much more responsive in the lower revs.  We\'ll see it Japshow if the changes so far have paid off ;)

What Boost controller do you have?

Quote from: pdtaylor18;509739What Boost controller do you have?

It\'s a Profec B spec II - the digital one.  It\'s not too bad once you get the hang of some of the settings - which appear a bit weird to start with.
 
You can adjust the boost value - which is the duty cycle, but then you have gain, set gain - which is actually the point at which the wastegate will be allowed to start opening, then the warning limit and a percentage the boost is dialled back when it hits the warning limit.
 
I noticed from the dyno readings that boost was coming on quite late, and tailing off evenly after hitting max boost.  I changed the start boost to 6.5 psi, upped the gain to about 45%, and reduced the limit cut to 10% rather than the more agressive 20% I had set before.  The result is boost builds more quickly, and stabilizes very quickly at maximum, and holds till past red line - which makes for a massive change in the drive :)  There is still more adjustment in it, but at the moment I\'m not getting boost spikes - so quite happy with the change.

Not done an update in a while - been at the soldering iron again - made a little box with 4 resistors in it - pretending to be injectors ;)
 
So test fitted the eManage yet again - checked the voltages - and being a numpty I\'ve got my air and water temps switch round - might explain some of the odd readings from last time.  Anyways - reset the stock ECU\'s error codes and switched on the eManage - checked me voltages - all seemed ok - and then started the car - seemed to be behaving this time - let it warm up - checked the water temp was going up with my displayed reading - it is :) - but there is a few degrees difference - I can live with that - coz I\'m not sure which is inaccurate - my display or the eManage or both - but 4 degrees I can live with.  Air temp seems to be non linear with the eManage, but they seem to converge around the high 40\'s and into the 50\'s - most of that heat is the transmitted heat from the engne - not the actual air temp - wil try and lag that bit of intake piping and see if it gives more meaningful readings.
 
Anyway - here is a vid of the car after a run - seemed to drive normal enough, but the injectors and ingition timing are untouched but routed through the emanage...
 
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/th_MOV00334.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/dcr1tch/?action=view¤t=MOV00334.flv)
 
As you can see from the vid - the wiring is a mess and needs tidying :Giggle:spank
 
Next steps will be to fit the larger secondary injectors, the Volvo electric rad fan, bigger intercooler and compression tube and then the OMP adaptor and finally water injection.  Not sure how much will be done for Rotorstock.
 
Also got a roof to be fitted Tuesday :)

loving the wiring :D :D thats great work

i still like the little LCD with the water/air temp - very very very coooool :D :D

Tidied it up a bit - got the cover back on it all - and it still runs :Thumbs-up
 
So today is a bummer - getting rained off :(  I got the wiring down the side of the car for the WI, and the water hose, so both ends of the WI system still need to be done.  Still have to make the WI controller, but it shouldn\'t take too long to do that.  It\'s going to be a Basic Stamp, with some MOSFETS for the pump control.  Idea is to have some failsafe stuff built into it to shutdown the WI pump, solenoid and cut boost when there is either a fault or no water left.

Oops - having laptop issues today - double post

nice Dave glad you got most of it sorted, were is your water temp gauge for your custom display or are you just using the stock one for the ECU?

Mark

I\'ve still got the stock water temp gauge, but the little gizmo I built displays both water temp and Engine Air temp in digital form.
 
Been driving it for a couple of days, and it seems that the eManage has thrown the timing out a little - although fuelling is much closer to what it was without the eManage....  ...little steps...
 
I\'m still getting an AFM code 08 - which means the signal from the eManage is going outside the expected norms at some point - although the table is all set with 0\'s (no change to signal), yet when I measure in/out signals at the connectors they seem to track exactly.  The problem is it could be some dynamic state thing - or during startup/shutdown when the voltages are settling - although both the stock ECU and eManage are fed from the same 12v feed.  It seems the 08 code is memorized - so could just be a momentary occurrence - it says basic fuelling and timing used - but the car seems to be behaving as if only the timing is out - lacking some acceleration and go - but idling is spot on and AFR\'s look good if a little rich at idle (walbro pump :) ).  Hunting around for info on rx7club, but not really getting anywhere.  I also got a 13 code - which is the stock MAP sensor - that is also routed through the eManage - so my theory about startup (or shutdown) voltages may well be correct - not so worried about that code, as it has no lasting effect on the car, and that sensor is only used upto stock boost limit (which is fine).  A 3 BAR sensor will look after boost reading beyond that, as I will build an FCD table to \'contain\' the stock ECU into a known area for which it has tables and control.
 
I may end up just routing the AFM signal back to the stock ECU, and piggy back off it for the eManage - I was going to eliminate or replace the AFM, but I\'ve no need to do that at the moment, and therefore that adjustment map isn\'t needed, as I can alter timing and injectors from their own maps and leave the stock AFM signal well alone.  It\'s a simple mod to the loom - about 30 mins work, so going to have to try it.
 
Also need to get myself a timing gun, and make sure timing and TPS are adjusted correctly (although idle seems ok).

i have a timing gun your welcome to borrow Dave (can bring it to RS)
i ment have you put any additional sensors in for your water temp or are you using the stock sensor (sorry it didn\'t make much sense!)

Mark

Quote from: mpk490p;521558i have a timing gun your welcome to borrow Dave (can bring it to RS)
i ment have you put any additional sensors in for your water temp or are you using the stock sensor (sorry it didn\'t make much sense!)
 
Mark

No worries - I really need a timing gun anyhoo ;).
 
I\'m still using the stock sensor - just behind the water pump - it\'s not a bad place to take off a reading, and the eManage will be running the electric rad fan off that as well - relay works - I\'ve tested that, and there is also a failsafe switch on the top rad pipe - that operates another relay in parallel to the eManage controlled one, and will turn on the fan if it gets too hot.  It does mean that I can tune the on and off temps for the electric fan and thus keep the temps within quite a narrow band.  I have to say that since making the temp display, the stock rad and fan do a pretty good job of things - if it wasn\'t for the asthetic aspects and increased room I probably wouldn\'t be so tempted to switch :)

ive found switching the fan on around 90 - 92 is best, has does the stock set up compare to that?

Mark

Quote from: mpk490p;521574ive found switching the fan on around 90 - 92 is best, has does the stock set up compare to that?
 
Mark

It\'s close to that - seems to be around mid to high 80\'s on idle / light load, and raises to 91/92 under some load.  On really long power runs it\'s got into the mid 90\'s :spank:Giggle

Another update :guinness
 
Found a wierd bug or funny with the eManage.  It seems that the stock timing is sent out when the Stock ECU takes it\'s Airflow signal from the eManage.  I had all the maps set to \'0\' so no timing inputs should have been made.  After routing the AFM signal back to the stock ECU, the timing went back to normal :yes.
 
I wasn\'t planning to use the Airflow Adjustment map in any case, as I prefer to edit the injector adjustment and Ignition maps directly, so I\'ve lost nothing in reverting this signal back to the stock ECU.
 
I even had a friend watch the readings on a pair of multimeters attached to the AFM output and the eManage output respectively as I gently pushed the cone in and out - both meters reacted as expected - with about 0.04 volts between them - so the signal would seem to be correctly being processed - just can\'t get my head round the ignition timing being thrown so much.

Quote from: Prof;521959Another update :guinness
 
Found a wierd bug or funny with the eManage.  It seems that the stock timing is sent out when the Stock ECU takes it\'s Airflow signal from the eManage.  I had all the maps set to \'0\' so no timing inputs should have been made.  After routing the AFM signal back to the stock ECU, the timing went back to normal :yes.
 
I wasn\'t planning to use the Airflow Adjustment map in any case, as I prefer to edit the injector adjustment and Ignition maps directly, so I\'ve lost nothing in reverting this signal back to the stock ECU.
 
I even had a friend watch the readings on a pair of multimeters attached to the AFM output and the eManage output respectively as I gently pushed the cone in and out - both meters reacted as expected - with about 0.04 volts between them - so the signal would seem to be correctly being processed - just can\'t get my head round the ignition timing being thrown so much.

Dave you lost me when you said ECU:Thumbsup!:rollin:Thumbs-up

Mark

After some backside dyno action on the strip, the untuned eManage seems to have sapped a little power in the midrange.
 
I\'ve got a spreadsheet of the first logging from the eManage - this was after the AFM was wired back to the stock ECU.  In theory the eManage isn\'t altering injector or igntion timing - so these readings show what the chipped ECU is doing with the fuel.  Interstingly - the primaries are being used to add fuel at higher pressures - that\'s one of the differences from a stock ECU, where the duty would be held around 40% on the primary, and the secondaries would be run up to a maximum.
 
EDIT - Seem\'s it won\'t let me attach the spreadsheet :(

Saved the graph as an htm page :)

3rd time lucky

Are you sure thats not your heart beat when doing the Strip ?  lol

So having looked at the graph I am still none the wiser but are your injectors opening enough at full throttle? is this where you lost loads of power? How do you interpret that graph?
Wish I had gone up the strip now, might have been the last time in this FC, would have been interesting to see what it would have got.  Mind you if you compare yours against Adrians then he got fairly good results for the mods done.  Yours has got about 100 BHp more as well!! He only got 120 something on the dyno but he did shoot a big fire ball out the back on his dyno run so probably over fuelling and needs that FMIC.

Needs a quick explanation I suppose - the yellow line at the top of the graph was water temps - you can see that after a run on boost - where the dark blue line spikes - the water temp spikes just after it.  The brown line shows AFR\'s - most of the time it sits below 14, but on lifting off, the boost drops to vacuum (purple line at the botton), the brown line flattens at 22 (fuel cut) and the revs start to drop as it coasts down.  The interesting part is that at the end of the graph, the ECU sends the primary injectors to 100% during the same cycle, in an attempt to bring water temps down.
 
Basically from that graph - the radiator was struggling to cool things after a hard push, and the chipped ECU responds to that by pushing the primaries full on during a fuel cut cycle - hence unburnt fuel in the exhaust and flames - lol
 
The good thing is that the injectors never go much above 80% even at 12 psi boost - so the chipped ECU is handling the fueling well.  This was a Blitz Access ECU - I suspect Knightsports and Panspeed chips will behave in a similar fashion.

is the afr recorded  by a wideband or narrowband sensor

Quote from: BlitzBoy;523586is the afr recorded by a wideband or narrowband sensor

Wideband - it\'s an Innovate LC-1 - the AFR\'s actually dip right down into 10\'s at some points - but it reaches a good ratio on closed loop - as the stock lambda is still also running in the down pipe

A few pics of the progress on getting the engine ready for being hoisted out - thanks to Aceman and Mitch for assistance rendered.
 
As it stands all electrics are off the engine, all water pipes, oil cooler detached, vac lines off, fuel lines, alternator, radiator, starter motor and down pipe are off.  Loosened engine mounts, bell housing to engine and rear gearbox mount (it\'s all coming out).  All fluids drained.
 
As you can see from the pics, there is some damage to the top radiator pipe neck, and also the thermostat housing outlet pipe - I found most of the missing bits in the top rad hose :(  Also, does anyone know how to get the oil line off the front of the engine - there are 2 nuts, and the smaller one nearest the engine is lose against the engine, but just moves with the rest of the line - do I need to split these 2 nuts ?

never seen a rad pipe like that .. impressive :D

Alright mate,
swift progress!
Please PM me your mobile number as I wanted to call you the other day (nothing important) and realised I didn\'t have it, neither did anyone else I asked! Cheers

Also with that oil line, the easiest way I find is just disconnect them from the oil cooler end.

I\'ve also made a little box for you, called, \'the bits grinder broke whilst taking the engine out\', so if you\'d like to add any more bit to the list just let me know.
Right now we have;

-Radiator neck
-Thermostat housing/Water pump neck (piece of fragile plastic seems to break all the time!)

Also are you going to de-solenoid it all and simplify the rats nest?
I still have my simplified rats nest if you want to save the head scratching and messing around! Just bolt it on.
Not sure how it would effect the standard ecu tho?

Quote from: BenLewisMav;525169Also are you going to de-solenoid it all and simplify the rats nest?
I still have my simplified rats nest if you want to save the head scratching and messing around! Just bolt it on.
Not sure how it would effect the standard ecu tho?

I was looking at that lot and thinking - yes - not all of these need to go back on.  I am going to order some resistors to fudge the ecu so that it thinks the solenoids are still on.
 
Looking at the manual - the blue and grey ones now do nothing on my car, as I\'ve taken off the ACV and air pump so they are surplus - they are Split air and Relief Air.  The Orange one I think is the PCV - which holds fuel pressure up on idle when warm starting - since I have a walbro pump and higher idle fuel pressure anyway - that one is also not needed.  I\'ve already elimintated the boost solenoid, so that just leaves the green one - not to sure what that one does - as in the Haynes Guide, the series 5 cars don\'t have it.  On the Series 4 cars it\'s EGR - and as I don\'t have that - I\'m guessing that one is also surplus.  I\'m also not putting the AWS solenoid back on either :)
 
Looks like I am going to have to move the purge valve - round black plastic thing that used to sit just under the intercooler - it\'s right in the way of where the compression tube outlet will go - does anyone know if that can be mounted at other angles - or does it have to sit with the disc horizontal ?  I suppose I could just route it to a catch tank - but wanted to avoid doing that if possible.
 
As to the thermostat housing neck - do you have a good one or did I understand from your post that your\'s was also toast ?
 
I\'ll PM phone number as well.

dave,   its a b1tch to do the front oil pipe and is always tight,   you need a smaller spanner on the union closest to the engine,  then the bigger spanner on the oil line and you need to undo it anticlockwise. Make sure the spanners are the exact size or they will slip, It will be tight,  I loosened mine tonoght and it was tight and its only been on there 2 weeks!

Quote from: antnicuk;525387dave, its a b1tch to do the front oil pipe and is always tight, you need a smaller spanner on the union closest to the engine, then the bigger spanner on the oil line and you need to undo it anticlockwise. Make sure the spanners are the exact size or they will slip, It will be tight, I loosened mine tonoght and it was tight and its only been on there 2 weeks!

It IS tight ! - I\'ve removed the lines at the oil cooler for now ;).  stupid question - but do I try and hold the smaller nut still whilst rotating the bigger one anticlockwise - seemed to make sense when I visualised it undoing in my mind ?
 
I\'ve also taken a look at all those vac lines and stuff that hide under the intercooler - would be really nice if most of that didn\'t go back on.  I reckon I only need the Purge Control Valve, the other vent line/tee from the charcoal canister, the water or oil line for the turbo - can\'t remember which it was - oil I think, and the fuel lines - for those I might just go with braided lines direct to the 2 rails - unless the fuel needs pre heating by the top of the engine first ?
 
Thinking of doing Viton lines on the undeside of the UIM, and for the oil line off the oil neck - as hot oil kills silicon, then use silicon for the rest of the remaining vac lines (not many).

if you are standing on the passenger side looking at the plugs side of the engine,  you need to undo the bigger union anticlockwise,  while holding the small one to stop it undoing.

not sure about your engine management but i dont run any of the extra stuff.  The only lines under my plenum are the fuel lines and turbo.  (the water lines are by the lower inlet manifold)  I have a vacume line to the 2ndary injectors and one to the FPR and thats it.


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Antnicuk/2ndAugust2008-StylusWakesUp011.jpg)

Dave, I thougt that the purge valve can go, done that on mine after we discussed this in my thread. Sure we said that can go to the catch tank.  Its job is to regulate the evaporative fumes from gas tank and canister to intake manifold. So in my book going to catch tank is just as good.  I too when i first came across this had difficulty in where to place this with my new inlet compression tube, first I just lengthened all the tubing and then I just got rid of it and will use the catch tank, making sure its got a filter of some sort to atmosphere.
In my Mazda workshop manual the green connector is the Twin Scroll turbo solonoid valve.

Bit of an update on this one.  Went to pickup Ben\'s engine on Thursday - nice day for a van ride in the Cotswolds :)
 
Got the engine, gearbox and some stuff for Mitch who\'s coming on Sunday to help put the new engine in (hopefully).
 
So I\'ve spent today putting it back together ready to go in the car.
 
Morning started with getting the gearbox out - that was fun - needed Eileen\'s help to move the engine crane, whilst I man handled it out of the engine bay - they are just about liftable those gearboxes. :Nono!
 
Stripped all the stuff off the old block that I needed, and detached the turbo oil feed line from the rats nest - as none of that is going back on the car :)
 
Also fitted my OMP adaptor - and there lies the rub :(  Seems my turbo oil return line isn\'t long enough :(  If I can\'t fathom out how to mod something up to get it to fit, then I\'m taking the OMP adapator off for the time being whilst I get a pipe piece made up.  Any ideas greatly appreciated.  The last pic shows the problem !

Simple Dave, cut the end of the engine end flange of the pipe and weld an extended pipe portion in and then reweld the flange on. I will have to do this anyway cos my turbo is on a stainless manifold let alone with my OMP adapter as well. I will see if i have the right sized pipe, in stainless of course.  If you want you can use a rubber sleeve to bridge it but welded pipe would be better if you can.

After the trouible to go and get the OMP adapter at least fit it and worry about the rest later, thats unless you are in a rush with the car.

Quote from: pdtaylor18;526518Simple Dave, cut the end of the engine end flange of the pipe and weld an extended pipe portion in and then reweld the flange on. I will have to do this anyway cos my turbo is on a stainless manifold let alone with my OMP adapter as well. I will see if i have the right sized pipe, in stainless of course. If you want you can use a rubber sleeve to bridge it but welded pipe would be better if you can.
 
After the trouible to go and get the OMP adapter at least fit it and worry about the rest later, thats unless you are in a rush with the car.

Yeh - bit of a rush - really want to have it ready for JAE next weekend - we are out tomorrow, and I\'m working on putting the engine back in tomorrow - and re hosing / wiring up on the Bank Holiday - I\'ve also got Wednesday off work in case it\'s not ready - and we go on Thursday.
 
so close I can almost smell it running :) :rollin

ok - got the engine and gearbox in - we had to dismantle the exhaust system and remove the prop shaft to get the geabox in - but problem now is getting the prop shaft back on - haynes guide is a pile of poo - no help at all !
 
One question - is there any difference in the drive train for a coupe verses a convertible ?
 
Can\'t figure out how to get the prop shaft back on :(

prop shaft is the same , im sure

slide it into the back of the box - do up the 4 nuts on the diff :D

They should be the same - did you mark up the prop shaft before you removed it?

Yeah - discovered the problem - the sleeve on the end of the prop shaft was flatted on one side - so it wasn\'t going the whole way over the prop shaft - once we\'d figured that out - and after having lifted the engine unecessarily and struggling to get that back in again - we finally managed it.

So drive train is all in - save for the gear selector and topping up the gearbox oil - engine is in but needs nuts on the engine mounts - now we\'ve got to put the heat shielding back on, and the exhaust system.

Then it\'s all pipes and wires (http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/original.gif)

Ah - just the awkward bits to go then! ;)

A pry bar and some wiggling! That\'s it short of loosening the diff mounts... It\'s a lot of effort, maybe more than its worth. Helps if you dont have the gearbox and engine mounts done up.
 
edit. Oh you\'ve done it.

speedy work prof - i like it :D

What are you planning to do with the old block? im looking for one to do up and use as a spare ;)

Thats some good work Dave, the props are all the same but I always undo the 4 nuts from the diff, 14mm and are easy to get onto, saves a lot of bother.  I forgot about JAE, I think I might need to revisit my plans for this coming few weeks.  Hopefully I will see you there in the Rex.

Quote from: G@NDY;526991What are you planning to do with the old block? im looking for one to do up and use as a spare ;)

That\'s exactly what I want to do with my old one - just in case this happens again !!  That way I\'d have a spare engine to drop straight in (all be it with a 3-4 day turn around time :rolleyes: )

Well cracked on a bit more today - but old father time prevented me finishing today.
 
Still got to fit rad, tighen belts, make intercooler fit under bonnet, fit battery, fit 2 stroke can and feed line, and fill with fluids.
 
Then got to map the 800cc injectors on the emanage - just a quick entry in a table for the secondaries - and it will be time to crank it :yes
 
Some more pics of the progress - although there are more to take as I ran out of light for the last few things done.

Looks good (lots of silicon!), fast progress too..
Forgot to mention, it might be an idea to change the plugs, or at least clean them up, as they are probably pretty fouled with all that premix sitting on them for this length of time. (they are pretty much brand new, so should be ok with a clean??)

Also don\'t forget to take a bit of timing out the whole range from 0 Psi-onwards [overriding the stock ecu] because, a) bit of safety margin never hurt anyone b) a big street port won\'t want as much advance anyway. Sorry if i\'m \'teaching my grandmother to suck eggs\'..
I am curious to see what power you make from the T4 .70 trim!

Well I sorted out my intercooler to bonnet clearance issue - cutting a rubber grommet and some minor adjustments made that another tick (http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/original.gif)

Drilled my catch tank for the oil feed to the oil metering pump for my 2 stroke and then started to fit the radiator - got it all done and started filling fluids before connecting the batter - and just as I\'d topped up the coolant system my new radiator arrived - bugger - such timing (http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Connected up the battery and then prayed - then turned the key - it actually caught within a few cranks - followed by clouds of blue smoke - Ben who I got the engine off did say it would smoke like a gooden when I started it - as he\'d put some premix in the rotor housins to protect it whilst it sat.

Smoke coming off all sorts of areas - as gaskets bedded in and so forth, steam off the radiator - worrying - but it did get drizzled on this morning. Engine seems happy - but cooland buzzer going off - I may have not grounded the radiator properly - need to sort that out as the buzzer is driving me nuts.

Still to do:

do quick update on the emanage to tell it is has the larger secondary injectors. Adjust electric fan to come on at lower temp - it\'s set a little to high. Fill petrol tank and put premix in it this time, as the 2 stroke from the tank is going to take a while to work it\'s way down the pipes - and at the moment there are air bubbles in the metering lines - although they are moving towards the engine which is good as it means the pump is working (http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/original.gif)

More pics later - having a quick rest now (http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif)(http://www.japgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif)

Wow you\'ve been a busy boy haven\'t you. Well done on the quick turn around. I don\'t think I could do it that quick.

Quote from: adereed;528390Wow you\'ve been a busy boy haven\'t you. Well done on the quick turn around. I don\'t think I could do it that quick.

I had help - Aceman and Mitch - Aceman on stripping the old engine out, and Mitch helped a lot with getting the engine and gearbox etc. back in the car.  But there were a lot of untried ideas in this build - which all though I\'d worked them out on paper - it\'s a different matter when it comes to reality ;)
 
Still, happy with the look of it - will be better when the ally rad is on, but have to wait till after the weekend to fit that.

Well done Dave, quick turn around (it what a club is all about helping each other out when needed :Giggle) hopefully there will be nothing more than a few little probs and the motor will be stronger than ever:driving

my 51IDA should be here next week but im already dreaming of a nice BP during the coolder months, this is real inspiration for it and mine would be 10 times easier than what you have achived!

Mark

Quote from: Prof;528440I had help - Aceman and Mitch - Aceman on stripping the old engine out, and Mitch helped a lot with getting the engine and gearbox etc. back in the car.  But there were a lot of untried ideas in this build - which all though I\'d worked them out on paper - it\'s a different matter when it comes to reality ;)
 
Still, happy with the look of it - will be better when the ally rad is on, but have to wait till after the weekend to fit that.

Fingers crossed it gets you safely to Mersea Island now for JAE!!

Thankfully it\'s not a drag strip event so you don\'t have to get envious sat on the sidelines..

Although, sitting on the sidelines can\'t be much worse than permanently viewing the rear end of my car over and over again...  :D


Only kidding!! You should be making some good power in all seriousness with your new setup. Can find out in Nov at the Rolling Road!

Be nice Dave if you can list what has stayed and what has gone and for what reasons.  It would be an excellent thread for those that either want to go the emanage route or even for when you simply want to get rid as much as possible any crap that really has little purpose if you decide to get rid of emissions, airpump etc. I will list mine on my car later in its progress as although similar will not go down the emanage route.

Glad to hear its up and running again!
Didn\'t sound like you had 1/10th of fiddling I had to do, I guess thats the advantage of the stock ecu being there. Did you get any videos?

I bet there was a lot of smoke lol! When I first got the engine started it filled the workshop in about 10 seconds, it looked like something from loch ness, when I opened the door it was rolling out along the floor like a B-Movie

Ok, probably almost the last update - although I will post pics of the rad when I get it on, and also the turbo oil return line - as they are part of this engine swap  story.
 
So I got the car running well enough to drive to JAE - or so I thought - electric fan keeps blowing fuses - so water temps are getting silly in traffic - had the heating full on in the car to aid with cooling :(  Have jumpered the fuse for now (bad), but will investigate some sort of thermal cut out device, as it\'s only the very high start current that\'s causing the issue.
 
Also, my bit of rubber hose for the oil return line split on one end - so I had a little oil seapage - managed to get someone to bring some blue silicon hose with them, and I jerry rigged the return line - seems to be holding up - but it\'s not permanant - will change it for a braided oil return once I\'ve got one made up.
 
Final problem - air intake sensor was grounded on one side by the bracket - the plug that fits on this has 2 wires - one is grounded one isn\'t - lucky old me connected it so that both sides of the sensor were grounded and the ecu assumed the intake temps were really high so consequently retarded the engine and over fuelled it slighly - contributed to over heating issue and total lack of any power in the engine.
 
Pics - some close up\'s of the bits I did leave on - PRC - purge control valve, close up of my oil return bodge, and the 2 stroke can with it\'s breather pipe (will also revisit that idea - if I over fill the tank and go over bumps it dribbles out of the end).
 
On the way back from JAE engine temps were at a more respectable 80-95, and electric fan really seems to be working well now.

Quote from: BenLewisMav;528709Glad to hear its up and running again!
Didn\'t sound like you had 1/10th of fiddling I had to do, I guess thats the advantage of the stock ecu being there. Did you get any videos?
 
I bet there was a lot of smoke lol! When I first got the engine started it filled the workshop in about 10 seconds, it looked like something from loch ness, when I opened the door it was rolling out along the floor like a B-Movie

Was going to do a vid of the startup - but it in my rush to get it going - I forgot.  I did have to run and close the front door - as the blue cloud from the exhausts was quickly making it\'s way into my house :Laugh :Hammer

Superb dave, top job and in a relatively short time as well. Hopefully all should be spot on for the JAE Finale.  You may even see a glimpse of my orang car by then as well.
Is the oil going through the OMP adapter yet? you could give it some pressure to aid it along? I am now double thinking on my hoses I made as Furb had issues with his ging to soft so I will pre-mix for a while until I am happy with the hoses and oil supply. Nice pics by the way and looks so much different.......almost like a new engine !!!  lol

nice job.. looks good also.. fancy sorting out my engine bay also..? lol

Quote from: pdtaylor18;530516Superb dave, top job and in a relatively short time as well. Hopefully all should be spot on for the JAE Finale. You may even see a glimpse of my orang car by then as well.
Is the oil going through the OMP adapter yet? you could give it some pressure to aid it along? I am now double thinking on my hoses I made as Furb had issues with his ging to soft so I will pre-mix for a while until I am happy with the hoses and oil supply. Nice pics by the way and looks so much different.......almost like a new engine !!! lol

I put some premix in with the first fill of petrol - as I could see the old oil in the metering lines with plenty of air bubbles in between them - it\'s now all been replaced by 2 stroke - and the catch tank I\'m using is now down to 1/3 full after a round trip to Bedford (85 miles) then to Mersea island via Bury St Edmunds (don\'t ask) which was about another 100 - so about 370 miles and at least 2 tanks of petrol.  1 can of 2 stroke will fill the catch tank twice easily.  Rough calculations - guess what - it\'s about 1L every 1000 miles - now what does that figure remind you of :)

well done dave, good work.   I had exactly the same, in my keeness to viddeo the starting of the new engine in the kit car i forgot to shut my front door, there was so much smoke i set my smoke alarm upstairs off.  But its on Youtube tube now! along with the first drive!  just got to run it in now, at least you dont have to do that!

I am going Microtech now so my bay should be pretty clean........ now wheres that manual ?

Are you not getting rid of the AWS, took mine off and dont miss it one bit. It still gets a good high idle at start until its warm.

Quote from: pdtaylor18;530717Are you not getting rid of the AWS, took mine off and dont miss it one bit. It still gets a good high idle at start until its warm.

Maybe ;)
 
I have a drop in idle revs when the electric fan kicks in - if I can get the BAC to correct for it, and the power steering, then the AWS solenoid can go.  It\'s sister solenoid - the Air Supply Valve (the one on the back of the UIM near the throttle body) is blanked off, but I retained this one as the stock ECU feeds both the ASV and it with current to both correct for PS load and perform the Accelerated warm up.  My chipped ECU defeats the AWS in any case, so I don\'t have that crazy revving when I start the car.  I may drop it - need to see how much it effects revs when the power steering is operated.

thats a nice IC you have there :D

Heads up on what I did remove from the \'vac\' rack that sits on top of the engine and under the UIM / throttle body / intercooler:
 
In actual fact, because I used braided lines direct to the primary and secondary fuel rails, the only hard line I retained from the original rack was the oil feed to the turbo !
 
All 4 solenoids that sit under the oil filler pipe are gone - the twin scroll wasn\'t used and it\'s lines were already blanked off.  The 2 solenoids that operate the vacuum feeds to the Air Control Valve were redundant, as I\'d got rid of the ACV on the last rebuild - so they are gone.  Final solenoid was the PRC valve - it\'s function is to hold fuel pressure higher during a warm start - to prevent fuel percolation.  Since I run higher than stock fuel pressure courtesy of the walbro pump, this solenoid isn\'t really doing anything anymore - so it\'s gone.
 
On a stock Series 5 there is also a 5th solenoid on the oil filler pipe itself - this is the Boost Control Solenoid - that was eliminated at the last rebuild, as I have an aftermarket boost controller.
 
I plan to install 5 27 ohm resistors (ally clad power types) to prevent the stock ECU from reporting error codes for them - although strictly there absence does not cause any change in operation of the ECU.
 
I retained the Crank Case Emissions stuff - but replaced the hard lines in the vac rack with silicon/rubber pipes.
 
I used silicon pipe from the charcoal can and top of the oil neck - tee\'d together and then fed to the one way valve and into the turbo inlet duct.
 
I used a rubber line from the lower oil neck line, fed into the Purge Control Valve (PCV), and fed the other 2 ports of the PCV with silicon pipes taken from the lower 2 vac nipples on the throttle body.  The top most one on the front of the engine is capped off.
 
On the back of the throttle body, I retained all the original rubber lines - they feed the 2 injector breathers, and the vac spider for the oil injectors.  The lowest line is for the wax thermo valve - that was retained.
 
The final change under the UIM was to take a vac feed off the nipple that comes out sideways on the LIM and it was fed directly to the Fuel Pressure Regulator - instead of routing through the hard lines to the PRC valve.
 
All in all, the plumbing is greatly simplified, and access to the pipe ends is now possible.

That intercooler fits rather well, what make is that?

Quote from: pdtaylor18;530803That intercooler fits rather well, what make is that?

It\'s an ARC intercooler - although the old core was breached (that sounded a bit star trek), and although I repaired it with ally solder, I was never happy with the repair and got it recored by Pace.  It\'s supposed to be a stock fit, but you need either a greddy tube or ARC\'s own throttle inlet tube as the outlet of the intercooler is in the centre.
 
The intercooler is supposed to be good for over 1 Bar, whereas the old one wouldn\'t work beyond 12 psi (0.7 Bar), and capable of high 300\'s in terms of horse power.  Should see me to 300 RWHP with the addition of water cooling/injection.

Well I found the problem - chuffing secondary injector is pi$$ing fuel like mad !
 
It means the rear rotor just floods straight away, and the front rotor isn\'t getting any fuel pressure because of the leak.
 
Need to source a pair of decent secondary\'s - either 800\'s (ideally) or 1000cc jobbies - High impedance top feed.  Either that or chuck my old 550 secondaries back in - although one of those is suspect and may have been the reason the other engine died.
 
My radiator finally failed - it had no less than 8 holes - covered up by crap which I very gently removed (trying to be tidy) - that then exposed the weaker surface to the air - and it didn\'t take the hot coolant long to breach - all the leaks are small - but the net effect means the old rad is getting junked.  New rad is in - but the hoses don\'t fit - top one I can cut to length, but the bottom hose is 2" too short - I\'ve ordered some superflex 38mm hose to sort that problem out.
 
Also managed to break the UIM/LIM gasket trying to get a water hose off the back of the throttle body - it\'s no wonder people eliminate the warmup stuff off the throttle body.
 
Electric fan is going to be rewired to run from the battery via a heavy duty relay - the inrush current is too much for blade fuses and I think circuit breakers - so going to consider a soft start circuit - ramp up the fan speed using pwm pulses - sounds like a job for either a switch mode IC or a 555 timer chip and a big gnarly mosfet.
 
Be a few more days off the road, but hopefully the teething problems are getting sorted now.

how much bhp is ur fc giving u now..?

Quote from: BBCFC;533685how much bhp is ur fc giving u now..?

0 at the mo :2Rolleyes
 
But soon....

are you still running the stock turbo?

Well done Dave and all involved with this thread it\'s been great to see all this interaction between you all :cheers

Quote from: antnicuk;533774are you still running the stock turbo?

No - tis a Hybrid - stock back end with ported wastegates, spacer to allow wastegate flap to open fully and modified actuator bracket.  CHRA has been rebuilt with 360 thrust bearings and new seals, and the front end is a Garret T04B compressor with 0.7 A/R.  The whole shabang was balanced and tested professionally.
 
Clive - tis great to get help and advice on the forum - I think it\'s the only thing that\'s stopped me going bezerk and taking a big hammer to the car :Hammer

is that the same as Ben\'s turbo?

Quote from: antnicuk;533891is that the same as Ben\'s turbo?

It\'s similar - his looks larger but has a smaller looking inlet on the compressor.  I think the turbo\'s are similar in performance as regards top power you can hope for - which would be around 400 at 1 Bar - fuelling and cooling not withstanding.  The main difference is probably where in the rev range that power comes in and over what spread.
 
Hybrids are a good solution for a medium power where you don\'t want to make 400+, as you can run with stock water/oil lines and manifold.

Well the replacement secondaries arrived yesterday - a pair of SARD 800cc injectors from RHDJapan - so will be fitting them tonight and retesting the fuel system for leaks.
 
Then tomorrow it\'s putting back the upper inlet manifold, filling the cooling system and cranking the engine to get rid of any remaining flooding.
 
The plan is then to fit new plugs and get it started.  I will post pics of the new rad, and I\'m also eliminating the AWS solenoid and replacing all the missing solenoids with power resistors so the stock ECU doesn\'t throw error codes for them.  WI nozzle is on the intercooler, I\'ll probably plumb the piping up in the engine bay - still need to make the WI controller, but the rest is then done.
 
Should be running again by Sunday :)
 
Many thanks to Gary at RotaryArt for getting the manifold gasket to me - I manage to break the one I\'d only just fitted getting the little water pipe of the manifold.

how much were the injectors dave?

Quote from: antnicuk;538535how much were the injectors dave?

£109 delivered for the pair - and they come with new connector plugs just in case your old ones are fu bar. They came with top O ring and spacer, but not the bottom grommet/spacer - but I got a set from Atkins Rotary so that\'s covered anyways. The end of the injector has a spray pattern mixer cap built in, so they could be used as tertiary injectors - I might have to take that off - although it should be ok.
 
http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm/SARD-800cc-X2-Injectors-RX-7-FC3S-13B-T-Series-5-12679
 
(http://www.rhdjapan.com/images/product/12679/Image/Normal/Image3.jpg)

thanks for that,

Well - ever closer to getting it running again (well it is actually running - but idle isn\'t stable).
 
Got the new SARD injectors in - and checked fuel system for leaks - had one dribble from the small bit of braided hoses between the rails - to be expected as it\'s been moved around a bit of late.  Fixed that and then popped the upper manifold back on - what a chore that is - fiddly little vac hoses :(
 
With it all up and after a once round to check for anything missing - electrical or plumbing - I removed the EGI fuse and cranked it a bit for one last clear out - no petrol vapours.  Stuffed the EGI fuse back in and cranked it - :) Started within a couple of turns - but smoked like a wet bonfire.  Had a strange whistling noise and idle dropping - so shut the car off after the warmup - noise seemed to be coming from the turbo - and there is a lot of smoke from down there - not good.
 
Sunday - took the intake duct off, and the intercooler inlet hose - checked for oil - none in there.  Turned the compressor blades - seem ok - so not running dry on the bearings.  Decided to check the oil feed and drain pipes - oil drain is wet with oil residue - noticed my oil return was sitting a bit high - could it be pooling oil - need to get the drain off to have a look - this isn\'t easy to get to with the engine in the car - but possible if you have a helper (thanks Aceman - poor bloke only came round to borrow axle stands).  Replaced the gasket on that, and plumbed another bit of silicon for the oil drain - it\'s defo running down hill all the way now.
 
Started again - idle keeps dying - and that unhealthy screech is still there - go and search on the net for animal dying in engine bay and faltering idle.  Vac leak - that\'s what the man said - so sprayed some brake cleaner near the gaskets - as peeps said they can leak - nothing there - all hoses \'appear\' to be on - checked jubilee\'s were holding the intercooler pipes nice and tight - yep.  After much head scratching and cursing - I finally listened in on the offending whistle / screech - it was the small vac nipple that hides under tha BAC - I\'d fogotten to put it back on - but the vac line was sat right on top of it so from a quick look over it appeared to be on - \'kin numpty :Hammer.  Fixed that and started it again - now it\'s not screeching and it\'s holding an erratic idle.
 
So have to adjust TPS - check BAC is working properley - as it doesn\'t seem to stabilize the idle at all, and then reset the timing again - once that\'s done - reset idle and go check timing again - little job for tonight then.
 
Worryingly - the AFR gauge was reading low - but comparing injector duties on the primaries during idle and warm up, and checking these with RPM and fuel pressure - the gauge seemed to be off somewhat - after a little test run it\'s gone back round to the expected values - seems the sensor was fouled up by all that crap after the flooding - it certainly smelled plenty rich so I wasn\'t overly worried.
 
Pics of new rad install, my little resistor ladder that replaces the solenoids and a home brew earthing kit and new rad wiring will follow tonight...

Is there a formula to work out the size of the injectors. I will need some for mine eventually but not sure on the size required. I was pretty much going to go for 750\'s or there abouts anyway but those do seem a good buy. Did they add much on for shipping?

Quote from: pdtaylor18;539434Is there a formula to work out the size of the injectors. I will need some for mine eventually but not sure on the size required. I was pretty much going to go for 750\'s or there abouts anyway but those do seem a good buy. Did they add much on for shipping?

Can\'t remember how much the shipping was - there was no duty or anything this end - so £109 all in for the pair :)  They do 720 or 750\'s as well I think.
 
As for working out what size you need - the fuel calculators on the net are pretty good for starters - you pop your sizes in and what duty cycle and it will tell you what HP that will make.  You can then work out what amount of air is required using the 14:1 calculation and doing the calculation for pounds (injector rates in pounds can be found on a lot of US sites) then you know what air flow your turbo needs.  I decided on 800\'s as that\'s the biggest size the emanage will automap when you do a swap (upto 50% bigger), but both primaries and secondaries are at slightly higher fuel pressure - so run more like 600\'s and 870\'s or there abouts.  Should be good for 300 at the rear\'s.
 
Anyway - here\'s the last crop of pics (getting dark - so flash shots).
 
As you can see - I\'ve got rid of the AWS solenoid as well now, the other solenoids are replaced with resistors to fool the ECU into thinking they are still there.  You can also see the new battery post wiring and the fan wiring - needed a dirty great big Maxi Blade to stop the fan taking the fuse out, and it has it\'s own relay now too.  There is also some additional earthing - which I may take further - I\'ve been measuring ground currents near sensors - shocking !
 
Still to do:
 
Water spray and injection
Water  Injection controller
Mapping
Some more Gauge work
Electronic suspension adjusters

Its all so yummy :D

hows rixy getting on these days..?

Tis running :)
 
I\'ve finally got that TPS adjusted right - wasn\'t easy to do - took several goes - as it seems to be quite fussy - but it holds really steady idle, and doesn\'t hunt during warm up now.
 
I\'ve adjusted the idle to around 800-900 RPM, and set the timing - which always seems to be well off if the TPS isn\'t right.  But it is running very rich indeed.  I\'ve been out for a run in it with Mitch and datalogged it, but the readings were off as there was a boost leak on a split vac line.
 
I\'ve fixed that, and also replaced some of the jubilee clips with decent Intercooler hose clamps - and it was running quite a bit better - but still rich on the way home tonight.  Timing needs some work, and at the moment I\'m keeping it to stock boost levels (Max 8.8 psi), until I can get it properly mapped on the eManage.
 
I\'m just beginning to find out how to get all this done, as the forums don\'t have many rotary owners using the emanage - most of the experience with it is RX8 based - but there is some great info there.
 
I\'ve realised I need to split the primaries and secondaries onto 2 seperate maps on the emanage, and also do the same for leading and trailing ignition - which will let me control fuelling and timing with a great deal of accuracy.  Doing it this way, means that 1 adjustment map will do idle / and all the vacuum side of 0 psi, and 1 map will control all the boost side of 0 psi - where the secondaries come in.  For the ignition, 1 adjustment map is for the leading coils, and the having the secondaries on the other map allows split timing to be adjusted.
 
So there we go - I\'ve got a backfiring FC at the mo - which is keeping people off my back end :flamed and drinking more fuel that it should, but temps are nice and low with that big rad in there :)

Glad to hear that all things are finally coming together, I bought Bens turbo in the end and that coupled with the microtech should give some similar problems with the setup of the engine but it should be more plug and play..... hopefully.  What else do you have to do now apart from fine tuning ?

Quote from: pdtaylor18;541923Glad to hear that all things are finally coming together, I bought Bens turbo in the end and that coupled with the microtech should give some similar problems with the setup of the engine but it should be more plug and play..... hopefully. What else do you have to do now apart from fine tuning ?

Water Injection and sprayer - I need to make an electronic controller for that, and put the pump in the spare tyre well at the back - the piping is already in, and the nozzle is in the intercooler, but not plumbed to anywhere (just got a bolt in it to stop boost leak).  I\'m going to use some hozelock stuff for the intercooler spray ;)
 
I\'ve also got my braided brake lines still to fit and I\'ve got rebuild kits for the front calipers as well.
 
Then it\'s time to do the bodywork. :yes

thats great news dave !! - keep up the good work

Ok - time for a progress update on this !
 
I was never happy with the way the turbo spooled after the wastegate was ported - it stopped the turbo overspooling - but it also robbed the car of a lot of acceleration and mid range power.
 
I also had that oil drain to sort out, as the OMP adaptor that lets me run 2 stroke in the oil injectors meant the stock oil drain could not be used any more. I\'d jerry rigged that with a bit of silicon pipe, but it needed a proper job doing on it.
 
So Oil drain was swapped for a bit of thick (1/2") braided line and some nice ally t04 flanges.
 
Also got an HKS actuator to replace the stock one, who\'s spring was weak and being pushed open by the exhaust gases on acting on the flapper. I had to cut the old actuator off the bracket, as the supplied one wasn\'t going to locate the actuator arm and turnbuckle in the right place. So after some drilling, cutting my arms to shreds getting up under the car, the turbo was out - actuator changed and back in again.
 
Results are looking good - new turbo setup makes 8.8psi just on spring (boost controller off) and holds it rock solid. With a bit of boost controller (15% gain) it makes 11 psi and again it\'s solid - so that\'s my low setting done - just needs tweaking on the gain a bit and the start gain. Then I need to revisit the fuelling maps in the Emanage before I go set the high setting (14 psi) - at the moment the are set to just bog out so that I don\'t push the car too hard.
 
The observant among you will notice the extra metal at the back of the turbo - a modifcation that Rotechniks made to allow more room for the wastegate flapper to open - and it works really well :)
 
Here\'s a few pics ...

looking good dave

Yep, what Stu said. Keep up the good work mate.

did Rotechnics make the plate or get it made or is it an after market bit.  I machined a well in the back of my stock plate to allow it to open more.  I dont get boost spike but the poor little compressor cant create enough boost past 5k rpm :(

I know you have probably posted this somewhere but what is the spec of your turbo?  does it have enough flow ? or does it tail off?

Quote from: antnicuk;588574did Rotechnics make the plate or get it made or is it an after market bit. I machined a well in the back of my stock plate to allow it to open more. I dont get boost spike but the poor little compressor cant create enough boost past 5k rpm :(
 
I know you have probably posted this somewhere but what is the spec of your turbo? does it have enough flow ? or does it tail off?

It\'s the back off an old turbo - it spaces the real back plate another 10mm or so off the exhaust housing - so the flapper can open as far as the wastegate can push it - there is also a nobble on the outside that might need filing down, but when I checked clearance, the wastegate can\'t move the flapper arm that far anyway. It means that a lot more gas can clear through the wastegate.
 
The turbo starts to spool up from about 3800 now (was more like 4000 before) and is on full boost by 4500 RPM - it hold this to past 7000 when on spring only - and from initial testing it seems to hold on the low setting on my boost controller - which takes it to about 11.5 psi.
 
The old wastegate couldn\'t hold the flapper shut, so it was just bleeding off the boost - if I gunned it really hard it would make maybe 13 psi but would drop off really quickly. It would hold 7-8 psi ok. This new wastegate has an adjustable spring rate from 7.5-15 psi, (adjusted by rotating the turnbuckle on the shaft) so I\'ve set it on the low end as I\'m using a boost controller. It seems to be set around 8.8 psi.
 
The rear section of the turbo is a standard HT18, but with the back plate modification and ported wastegates (pretty much taken to the max they can be).  The centre section has 360 journal bearings and was balanced. The front section is a T04B with an a/r .70 compressor housing with 3" inlet and outlet the same as the standard HT18 compressor. It flows a lot more air, but is maybe 500-1000 rpm later in the rev range and holds to redline easily. It\'s easily twice the size of the standard turbo on the front :Giggle.
 
I am still using the stock manifold - but I\'ve got a spare and may experiment with trying to port that out a little - at the very least just to tidy up the sharper edges and make it flow more smoothly. There isn\'t a great deal of metal spare in these anyway and they can be prone to cracking.
 
I wasn\'t looking to make a 500 bhp car, so the turbo seems ideal for my target of 300 at the wheels.

I am wondering if my boost is dropping off due to the actuator rather than the compressor not keeping up. I\'m still using the original.  Is your engine ported? if so is it inlet and exhaust ports?

I am using a boost controller which should keeping the wastegate shut if the boost isnt what its set to but if the spring is weak i suppose the exhaust gasses could be pusing it open still.

By 6k rpm i\'m down to 4 - 5 psi. I thought this was down to the comp housing being too small. I have no lag, i\'m on full boost by 3k which peaks at 9 psi but soon drops off.

Who built your turbo and where did you get your actuator?

Could be a week actuator - that bleed off was the exact same symptoms I had. Since I knew the turbo delivered a lot more with a more restrictive wastegate, I knew the compressor wasn\'t giving out.  I suspect that when you port the wastegates, you are allowing a much larger area of flap to be acted on by your exhaust gases, so the spring in the actuator is having to keep the flap shut against more force.  The boost controller works by not allowing the boost to go to the actuator, but can\'t help to keep it shut - that\'s all down to the spring.
 
The only way around that problem other than use a stiffer spring would be to use a 4 port solenoid and a dual port actuator.  That way you could direct boost pressure against the diaphragm in the actuator and assist the spring until you wanted to open it - then you switch over the boost to the other port and it will open very quickly.
 
I was considering that as the next option, but the HKS actuator appears to be man enough for the job.  I got mine from the US - as RHD Japan prices have gone up big time !  Was about £70 and £12 through customs.  Just google for HKS actuator upgrade kit (FC3S).
 
I got the turbo off an outfit in the US - was about £300 delivered - but they didn\'t port the wastegates and there was play on the shaft, so it went off to be rebuilt by Turbo Technics I believe - they did the thrust bearings, seals, porting and used my old turbine wheel and shaft which were fine and then re balanced the whole assembly.

Good work Dave,interesting stuff as I have yet to see what my hybrid will deliver, same for the exhaust side but mine has a TO4E compressor and upgraded actuator but no idea on the spring rate. Seems a lot of money went into your turbo from start to finish.
I have two spare manifolds that i might play with but as you say they crack really bad,might even get mine repaired but to be honest I am waiting for a aftermarket one to appear at a good price. They do the stainless ones but for the T4 turbo and i have yet to see an adapter that converts from T4 to the bolt pattern on our turbos. I do have an adpater but it does not fit the 7\'s exhaust pattern although I thought it was based on the T3?. Sometimes they do come up in Japan but its just another expence and not really sure how much to gain.
I have taken the turbo on and off at least 6 times so i am quite versed to the knack now, Where did you buy the oil flanges from? just what i need for not only the drain but the feed as well.

The flanges came from Level Zero Motorsports:
 
http://www.levelzeromotorsports.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=48&osCsid=c10c06465e874a0e41e821a6af70f82f
 
I got the brass fittings from a generic plumbing outlet - but one thing I would say - the ally and brass expand at different rates, and the oil will track round the threads - even though they are supposed to be tapered fit.  A little bit of gasket seal or something will be fine - that particular spot on the turbo doesn\'t get as hot as the exhaust housing - so anything that will resist 150 degress C should be ok.