This is still in the R&D stage but it works. So fabrication will be the next stage during the winter months. It is one of the reasons I got the Scoot bonnet so that I could use the air tunnel to give a cold air feed to the Turbo. Anyway comments please. It\'s a simple idea and they are the best!!!
Fair play that looks good and the heat sheild seems like a good idea too.:Thumbs-up
My only concern would be rain water running striagt into my air intake. Would this cause a problem?
Keep it posted though really interesting.
Ref the rain, it will drain out if any collects in the bucket. The bucket is there to cause a vortex as the air is forced into the scoop. We have blocked off the tunnel and diverted the air down.
John, I\'m no pro, but that looks restrictive to me.
Not enough air going to get through that small opening in the bonnet.
It\'s been put together by the lads at the RX-8 team and it\'s a design thats tried and tested on other race cars of different makes and types.The opening is large.
ahhhh somewhere to cool my bottle of Champagne :D
looks good John, will you be replacing the flexiable hose with ali tubing?
Like I said .... not a pro !!
Good luck with it, do they know just how much air that thing sucks at 2Bar :chat
i like the look of that, as you said simple! Nice one
Nice one Hog! Nice use of the bonnet. Remember the problem with metals, some more than others is that they absorb heat, so you may be better off with a plastic heat shield.
Cheers, Ant.
BB-- yes mate, as I said only in the R&D stage at the moment.
Gave her a short run last night and she felt more reponsive as cold air and not heatsoaked engine compartment air. I am going to give it a good blast tonight as I need some more V-Power go go stuff.
I will know a lot more on tuesday as I am down at RE:WORX having the Motec etc fitted and tuned on the rolling road, so GEFF & MAX will be able to pass comments etc. I have plenty of room in the engine bay to make any alterations to the system, but for now I will just have to see how it goes. We are going to put temp pads in the bucket area to see how cold the air is, but after the Motec is done.
Ant-- it\'s all made of plastic at the moment except the air-filter. The bucket is just that a plastic bucket with ali tape on it.
Bobbit-- Over the years I\'ve looked at all kinds of ideas and Ram-Air projects for the RX-7 from all over the Web, but they all involve a lot of complicated work or are a token add on bit that does not get air directly into the turbo. This is simple. The air is rammed in and the turbo can suck as much as it wants. Anyway time will tell.
Right then---Test run done.
Went off to Shell garage with next to no fuel so only had a little play just before I got there to make sure intake tems would heat soak when sat at the garage.
Started her up Water temps 85 intake 50 on the pfc.
Drove 2 miles down the road at 70mph, knowing I was going to hit a traffic jam ( part of the plan ) intake temps dropped 11 degs, then sat in traffic for 20mins until I cleared the roundabout to open road. The temps did not move up or down. Well to say at that point I was happy is an understatement.
Open road, with traffic so doing overtakes, full boost setting so 400 ponies at the rear wheels @ 0.95 bar boost. The intake temps came down even more as the cold air rushed into the turbo, down to 31.
I then tried it by staying in 3rd gear at 5000revs just blasting overtakes by blipping the right foot, only went up 3 degs and back down to 31.
Came off main road onto back roads to my home and played a bit then pottered along in correct gears til I got home. Air temp 29 degs, water 80 degs.
Based on that I\'m over the moon so far. What do you all think????
Comments welcome.:Typing
Yeah very good mate,
Water Injection will bring it down even more !!!
I run that as well, but only after 0.8bar.:Thumbs-up
I think the way to prove the ram air is to try this with the WI turned off that will fudge the results IMO interesting consept Mr Hog:Thumbs-up Would have much prefured a more direct air feed [without the extra bends] Just an observation:Laugh
Yes John, we will be looking to get rid of the bends if poss, this is only the fist fixing. As far as the WI is concerned all the major drops were without any boost so WI was not a factor, so on that note well happy. What I was well pleased with was no heat soak whatsoever in traffic.:wave
John
My intakes are 34-36\'c in traffic and 29\'c at 70mph...mine doesnt run WI or ram air. Iv taken the drivers sidelight out to vent air at speed but other than that its just engine air...these are pfc readings btw
What turbo/ic etc are you running mate.
Ref the traffic jam temp, what I was getting at was there was no heat soak. So if I had ran into the jam at 31 it may well have just sat there at 31.
The T51 is one big turbo and not many people are running one so I\'m in the dark on intake temps using the charge cooler set up.
What I did find very interesting was the drops in degs. How would the Scoot bonnet with this ram air help out someone with a V-Mount, would it drop there temps even more !!!
Twinnies...
john, just for reference what temps were you seeing before your intake mod?
matt
Full boost about 45deg so a vast improvement, but you must take into account the vast size of a T51 and the heat it makes.
i understand that but i was just interested in a comparison.
it means more to me to have a comparison rather than just a temp stated, but that is a massive improvement. well done and :god for trying something new.
also have you run that tub on a fmi and what temps did you see then?
thanks matt
No mate, the only fmic I had was when I first had the FD, then I went on the quest for the British Record for BHP out of the Twins and used the charge cooler system to do it.
My quest with this RE engine and T51 is as yet for 500bhp @ the wheels, but I was doing a lot of drag racing before and the charge cooler was ideal for it. However, I\'m now doing a lot more track work and I\'m either going to have to perfect the perfect charge cooler system, which with the other mod I\'ve done to it by plumbing in an AST removing all the air from the water, I\'m well on the way to doing( last mod I have worked out on the cc system is a twin fan slimline rad for the cc water cooling) or change to the RE:WORX V-Mount system.
really good idead there hog, should get blasted with plenty of cold air.
On my last fd with a trust std mount ic i cut a piece of ally plate 8mm thick and fitted it between the ic and the rad which stopped heat soak when driving in slow trafic, you could try this with yours to try to stop some of the heat rising from your rad directly up and onto your shroud round your filter if u get heat soak when diving in slow trafic.
when I fitted the plate it drasticly reduced intakes especially when car was left parked up for a while after a run cause the heat couldnt rise directly up and onto my ic, im sure it would be the same principle with your air filter setup and you have the advantage of having more room to fit it cause your charge cooler is well out of the way.
Thanks for the tip Stu.:wave
QuoteWhat I did find very interesting was the drops in degs. How would the Scoot bonnet with this ram air help out someone with a V-Mount, would it drop there temps even more !!!
I\'m about to get a Scoot bonnet, and have a v-mount. BUT - there aint enough room to do that type of thing. My air filter is stuck in the engine bay, but doesn\'t seem to get any heat soak on a good run: got 25-29 degrees on a good nice (not too fast) run. 60-70mph. I\'m interested to know if the scoot bonnet will lower temps any more, by letting the hot air out.
Yes mate I noticed the difference as soon as I fitted it. :Thumbs-up
Look forward to that then! :D
how much did you give for the charge cooler hog? is it the ausy pwr one?
they save so much room and stop all that heat soak, really short pipework from turbo aswell.
I might have to purchase one for the old fc drag car:)
imagine your intake temp with ice water pumping round that thing before you stage.
proper chilled Id say!!
the ausies swear by the barrel charge coolers for drag racing
Yes Stu,PWR from RE:WORX as they import them, can\'t remember how much as I\'ve had it a few years now, check out the link above,:Thumbs-up if you run the water via a dry ice box then intake temps are very very low.:wave
just what the doctor ordered!
http://www.pwr.com.au/pwr/index.asp
check the air to ice with co2 inlet:Thumbs-up
super chilled, these must make heaps more power in the summer on the strip.
Turn your engine into freezer unit with co2!!
The possibilities are endless.:cool
What are the charge coolers like for track work then? See the site states them as designed for drag and street, just wondering if they hold up on the track.
What are they like inside? Is basically a straight tube surrounded by the barrel water jacket?
TBH i\'ve never really considered these but im getting more and more interested :)
BTW bit more on topic, your ram air\'s looking good hog :) glad your getting some good results with it
Quote from: ScuttleRXWhat are the charge coolers like for track work then? See the site states them as designed for drag and street, just wondering if they hold up on the track.
What are they like inside? Is basically a straight tube surrounded by the barrel water jacket?
TBH i\'ve never really considered these but im getting more and more interested :)
BTW bit more on topic, your ram air\'s looking good hog :) glad your getting some good results with it
After a lap of the Ring running 1bar and 400+ ponies + WI you see 25-28 on boost dropping to less than ambiant:eek
The core inside is honeycombed and if well plumbed you get zero heat soak + they are shiney
Sounds very good :) I think that would be attainable on a well set-up FMIC/WI system as well though, or at least close. Im looking for the thing thats going to sway me one way or the other.
I think I asked this somewhere before but cant remember where, whats the pressure drop like, is it a lot less than the stock IC system, or one of the more efficient FMIC
there are less bends, and shorter inlet track so less lag (slighly) better cooling for the rad also.
On my set up my pressure bar drop is 0.1 of a bar.
IC can drop massive figs.
It\'s up to the individual as to which way you go.
I went this way as it was good and a hell of a lot cheaper than an IC.
If I had to change I would only go for a V-Mount.
The problem with them is that you get high engine temps. I understand that RE:WORX have solved that problem and found the balance between the two. It is only when we and tuners do R&D that things move forward. :wiggle
Thats for the info gents, the pressure drop (or lack of) sounds good.
So whats the reason for the high engine temps? Is it extra heat from the rad that cools the water? (You were referring to CC not V mount? :) )
I was watching the guy who won ten of the best this year on the timed circuit with the cossy powered dax rush kit car, this was running a charge cooler with ice water as i saw him keep filling his tank with blocks of ice between each run on the circuit.
With a co2 feed pumped around a charge cooler, this would work like a fridge because of the cooling propertys of co2 pumped through the viens of the charge cooler, look at how a fridge works or air conditioning works.
so in theory the co2 should keep the charge cooler ice cold as long as the gas is being pumped through it.
Yeah the co2 feed sounds great, especially for drag days and the like.
Where was the bloke keeping the ice? :)
the guy was keeping the ice in a cool box.
My mate who races altered drags takes his caravan with a small freezer powered by a geny for the weekend meetings, for keeping is inlet manifold cool.
I bet u could use the std ac pump to feed the charge cooler, nick the inlet and outlet of the chiller and conect to the charge cooler.
only problem with that is the small amount of bhp you get with colder charge you loose with the air con system on. Unless you keep chucking cold water in it you have to keep any cold substance cold, which means another kind of rad.
thats true mate, u wouldnt need co2 for drag racing anyway, im thinking of blasting round a circuit for half an hour, surely 5minutes or more and the ice would melt without the co2.
it must work well on the track though
on the fd the ac rad is in front of the main rad so u could use it, its got to be worth a try for the circuit boys out there.
My fd was awfull on track with std mount trust ic. every 5 laps round ty croes i had to slow down to cool intakes and water temps! using std twins at 11psi though.
Im definatly looking into that ice cooler for my fc:Thumbs-up
Stu -- ref engine temps with a charge cooler-- I see engine temps in the summer heat at mid 70\'s I never see temps in the upper 80\'s even when I use sustained boost on the strip.
You do see massive engine temps with large intercoolers and V-Mounts, ask anyone who does any track work, that is there main problem.
I made up my mind very early in my modding that the uprated PWR engine rad I fitted was only going in one place and that was where Mazda put it, also the under tray was designed to assist cooling the engine so that has always stayed-- no compromise on those two points. I did bin the water pump set up and it has all been changed to a big electric water pump system, it\'s the dogs bits. On the Ring in the summer I came off and my water temps were low 80\'s, others were up in the 100\'s.
The only problem you do get with a Charge cooler is air bubbles in the system, which puts your temps up. I am the only one who has done it to my knowledge, but I solved the problem completely by plumbing in a Mazda AST ( Air Separation Tank ). Just so there is no cofusion the Charge Cooler water system is a totally separate system stand alone from the engine cooling system. HTH. :yes
Quote from: WarthogStu -- ref engine temps with a charge cooler-- I see engine temps in the summer heat at mid 70\'s I never see temps in the upper 80\'s even when I use sustained boost on the strip.
You do see massive engine temps with large intercoolers and V-Mounts, ask anyone who does any track work, that is there main problem.
I made up my mind very early in my modding that the uprated PWR engine rad I fitted was only going in one place and that was where Mazda put it, also the under tray was designed to assist cooling the engine so that has always stayed-- no compromise on those two points. I did bin the water pump set up and it has all been changed to a big electric water pump system, it\'s the dogs bits. On the Ring in the summer I came off and my water temps were low 80\'s, others were up in the 100\'s.
The only problem you do get with a Charge cooler is air bubbles in the system, which puts your temps up. I am the only one who has done it to my knowledge, but I solved the problem completely by plumbing in a Mazda AST ( Air Separation Tank ). Just so there is no cofusion the Charge Cooler water system is a totally separate system stand alone from the engine cooling system. HTH. :yes
Funny enough was eyeing up the PWR rad aswell, this all looks rather tempting.
One question, how big is the rad for the charge cooler and where did you mount it? Also is there any sort of tank for the water or is it all held in the system.
Aussie dollars work out about 40p to $1, could work out a very cost effective set-up :)
Good idea with the AST :)
The rad for the cc is only small half the size of an fd rad with a electric fan as well. I had mine mounted on a slant where the air-con rad was. However, it is now upright as I\'ve changed my front end. The water storage is what is in the rad,pipes and cc thats it.
I am considering changing that rad to a far bigger one with twin fans, low and squat across the front for extra water and extra cooling.
Ram Air Feed now in Ally--------- Link to Bends etc http://www.viper-performance.co.uk/index.php very good prices. Click on Kits for Oil Catch Tank £49+
Cor, that looks nice
Thanks mate, the bends for the 4" air intake to the T51 turbo, were only £22.70 each, bargin.:D :cool
Looks really smart. I ordered an alloy pipe and joining hose for my Turbo from Viper Performance yesterday and it arrived in the post this morning. Top service and very good prices. Thanks for putting up the link :Thumbs-up
Is that T51 as in HKS T51R KAI?
Kermit--no probs mate. I can\'t claim the link find as it was Richard CASH on here that pointed me in the right direction.
Yes HKS T51--------big.:eek
You big pimp you! That is one serious turbo!
Only just playing with the power at the moment, as only using 0.95 bar just under 400 at the wheels. Motec ECU going on and a 4" exhaust in Jan 2007.
Will still play safe on the boost as I only want 500 bhp at the wheels.:yes :eek