Hello all, I\'m currently tying to decide on a new race car project and I\'ve narrowed it down to either RX7 or Supra. At the moment I\'m leaning towards the RX7 as it\'s lighter and the base car to buy is cheaper than a twin turbo supra. But I\'ve a few questions and I\'m hoping someone can point me in the correct direction.
Firstly, I know the championship and regs so I know what I can or can\'t do in terms of modifications. I\'ve also built a succesful racing car before and I\'m a professional motor racing instructor working for companies such as Caterham and driveme.net
I need some information on the cars themselves.
What is the weight of the standard car. I\'d like to get the car down to 1100kg(or less?) - I\'ll be removing door glass,motors, interior, etc. Is this realistic, and is the rear hatch all steel and glass - as the glass in the hatch strikes me as being potentially the heaviest item and as it is compound curvature - difficult to replicate in perspex.
Is there a particular (type R?)that is better to choose as a base car? I\'ll be selecting my own coil overs and brakes so what is on the base car should not matter.
Do all cars have the same LSD?
To make the car competative, at the weight I\'d like to hit, I\'ll need around 320-350bhp (flywheel). What mods do the engines need to get near this figure - is it major internal work? I\'d prefer to keep sequential turbo\'s as in theory this will keep the car more adjustable on the throttle - compared to a laggy single unit.
Also, would there be any companies in the RX7 world that may be interested in this project and may be able to offer support advice or other services, with a view to me providing advertisment space on the completed car?
Thanks all and I\'ll have lots more questions I\'m sure soon!
Tony
Firstly welcome to the club, it sounds an exciting project. The type R has twin oil coolers and so would think a good base for your project. I think the Rex weighs in at around 1300kg standard but depends on exact model. I would have thought you could get it down to 1100kg. Stock twins should see the kind of power you are looking for but will leave it for others to describe best way to get there. It may be worth checking out some of the vendors at the top of this page in terms of some kind of sponsorship arrangement.
Edit - just noticed you are quoting flywheel bhp - relatively minor mods should easily see this figure attainable with good reliability too.
excellent stuff, thanks. Stuff like twin oil coolers is useful to know- that\'s the kind of thing that helps with a project like this. The races are standard 20 minute or so UK club racing affairs, not the 3 hour British GT jobbies.
Just a quick cheeky question as well - I could do with seeing a car in the flesh and a kind owner letting me have a close look (under bonnet, boot, etc). Even take me out for a quick ride as it hels a lot in my understanding of a cars potential (I\'m used to evaluating cars from the passenger seat due to my race instruction work). I\'m in Skipton in N. Yorks and I\'m not a stalker or car napper! Or is their a local meet I could pop over to?
Tony
Hi Tony,
With regards to weight -1100kg is going to be a push as A7NTY has totally transformed his interior and it weighs in at 1150 or so iirc...im sure he will correct me if wrong
The RZ is the best model to start with because it was built with stronger bits and bobs cant remember the particulars but i know it has a stronger Diff 1.5 way LSD and other bits...
Getting 350fly hp isnt going to be costly but if your going to race the car proffesionally then i suggest you get a race built engine...Carl Hayward does these for £5k and with a full race warranty aswell you cant go wrong...i dont know about regs for that sort of stuff but he\'l be more than happy to help out if you give him a buzz...
Mods wise a decent rebuild with porting should easily see you 310-350fwhp with the following mods:
Intake Kit
Full Exhaust System
Front Mount Intercooler
Larger Injectors
& a stand alone fuel management system...
Hope that covers everything & welcome to the forum :)
There are a few cars in the area & im sure somebody would be willing to oblige, if mine was running then you could come roud and take a peek, if it doesnt make a difference then my offer still stands :)
Hi Tony,
Just curious really but what series are you racing a RX in? I\'ve just finished a season in the MR2 Challenge and there was a RX7 racing in the Roadsports but that\'s about it...
But isn\'t a R2 weight in at 1240 kg? So down to 1100 kg should be too hard for an out and out racer, no interior except one seat and runners, no air con, FRP bonnet, I\'ve seen FRP rear hatches about as well, there looks like there\'s plenty to loose really.
Thanks,
Mark
Hi, yep roadsports is now defunct sadly, but the DDMC run a championship with several classes and the RX7 will fit into that. I already have a friend racing a 520bhp MG ZT V8 in this championship. I know the lap times and the circuits and know my curent laps times with my current car - hence my estimates in weight/power to get a car competative within that championship.
Really useful info on the engine - from the sound of it it should be possible to get more grunt that expected. Always good.
Rixio, a non runner would still be useful so I may take you up on the offer if thats ok.
How did you find the MR2 challenge - I had a Mk1 Mr2 for a year and thought it a great little car -it had rusted away in a year though - I always thought it a brilliant little handler, better in many ways that a Mk1 Elise. The only thing I found with it was that you had ot be fast and accurate to catch any oversteer. Keeps you on your toes!
Yeah, the roadsports has been dying a death this year sadly... And without it the MR2 challenge would have never happened!
I\'ll definately keep an eye on that, looks very interesting! 520bhp should be "enough" ;)
No probs...you can give me a call on 07886 208 395 :)
Id be interested to hear about the racing etc because its something iv been thinking of going into but not known anything about :o
Aye, 520 is a lot, but they are stuck on the weight. They have stripped and carbon fibred but the old bus is still over 1400kg ( not suprising given the road car is 1800kg - I\'ve got one!) Varied racing though, just what I like.
Will do rixio, speak to you tomorrow at a more earthly hour. Happy to chat about racing. I\'m a licenced ARDS instructor so I\'m one of the guys that decides if a driver can have a race licence.
What modifications are you allowed and not allowed to do to the car ?
500 - 600 bhp is easy if your allowed to change turbos and fuelling...
Anty is selling his track prepared RX at the moment might be a cheaper route to what you are after.....
I cant link to his ad but I\'ve stolen the text.....
..................
Is with a heavy heart I make this post.
1993 December – Mazda RX7 type R2
1100kgs (weight down from 1250kgs)
The car currently runs an HKS TO4Z single turbo and makes 400bhp at the wheels at 1 bar boost on pump fuel, 435 at the wheels at 1.2 bar. 1.4 bar would I suspect be around 470 at the wheels.
The engine has made more power, with a T51R turbo;
527 bhp at the rear wheels using 1.4 bar boost and 120ron race fuel
(equates to approximately 620bhp at the flywheel) But this was at the expense of low down power.
The vehicle still holds a record;
Fastest RX7 over 1.25 miles in Europe with 183.3mph – genuine 200mph capability
I still believe with the T51R it is the most powerful 13B REW engine dynoed in the UK.
This car has also featured in various issues of J-tuner and was the the cover feature on the very first issue. I will give the new owner a copy (never even opened or read) for prosperity.
The car is set up for track and sprint use. We have run it up the strip, but with the suspension set up, stiff sidewall tyres and gearing its never going to be the fastest up the strip. Fastest time set so far was a 12.2 although we reckon it did an 11.9 but never got the slip to prove it.
Here is the vast list of modification;
Engine/Cooling/Exhaust modifications:
RX Motors bridge ported engine,
Trust front mount intercooler,
Trust hard piping,
Trust inlet plenum,
Trust twin oil coolers,
HKS T04Z,
Greddy manifold,
Greddy down pipe,
Trust ‘type R’ wastegate,
Trust pulley kit,
Section engine damper,
RE-Amemiya large capacity radiator.
FEED exhaust mid pipe,
Blitz Nur spec catback exhaust or Fujitsubo quiet catback exhaust.
Electronic/fuelling modifications:
Power FC ECU with commander unit,
550cc primary injectors,
1680cc Bosch secondary injectors,
KGP fuel rail,
Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator and fuel lines,
VDO fuel pressure gauge,
Nismo R33 GTR fuel lift pump,
2x Bosch 044 scavenger pumps,
Custom Tomei swirl pot,
Greddy profec B spec II boost controller,
Greddy water temperature gauge,
Greddy oil temperature gauge,
Greddy oil pressure gauge,
Greddy EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge,
Greddy boost gauge,
SARD attack meter,
Tech Edge wide band air/fuel ratio gauge and kit,
Uprated plug leads,
NGK racing spark plugs (10\'s leading, 11\'s trailing),
HKS twin spark amplifier,
Battery relocated to rear of car,
Start ignition switch in dash,
RE:Worx water injection system .
Aquamist water injection flow gauge.
Brake modifications:
AP Racing 4 pot front callipers,
Projec Mu slotted discs,
Electronic line lock,
Ferodo DS2500 brake pads,
Braided brake hoses,
Master cylinder stopper brace.
Interior and Chassis modifications:
Custom aluminium door panels,
Custom Aluminium dashboard,
Recaro reclineable seats (x2),
Cusco front strut brace,
RE-Amemiya under car chassis brace,
Rear strength bars,
Rear roll cage to comply with sprint regulations,
Autoexe front and rear chassis braces,
Racing beat front and rear uprated anti-roll bars,
Racing Beat front anti-roll bar support bar,
Ohlins Coiloveradjustable suspension,
Fully stripped and lightened interior with no sound proofing,
Momo Steering wheel on a modified steering column,
Mazdaspeed gear nob,
Mazdaspeed quick shift kit,
2x Sparco Racing 4 point harnesses with Trust covers.
Gearbox/drive modifications:
OS Giken Twin plate clutch (needs an overhaul kit to be used again)
Now fitted with an Extreme single plate clutch,
3.9 LS rear diff for top speed,
4.1 LS rear diff for drag/track,
Exterior modifications:
C-West front bumper,
RE-Amemiya side skirts,
GT Atyle rear wing,
RE-Amemiya carbon fibre rear diffuser,
BBS LM 18" Alloys, 265 width rear tyres and 225 width front Dunlop Do1J tyres.
Dare 18" wheels with Pirelli P-Zero 225 width slick tyres.
Also a full set of Avon ZZ3 wet weather tyres.
Scoot vented bonnet (original not a poor fitting copy)
Ganador wing mirrors,
C-west Sleek headlight conversion,
Tinted rear window.
The car has had so many oil changes it would shock most! normally changed with a new Mazda oil filter using 10w40 76 racing mineral oil every few HUNDRED miles at most. It has had all the rear suspension bushes replaced. The clutch is not even fitted yet so is brand new (will be fitted in the next few weeks).
This is an awesome car in every respect, mind blowing acceleration, brakes and handling. It would terrify most including me many times!
Of course we will have the decals removed for the new owner professionally and will carry out any paint repairs as necessary to get the paint to a1 condition. The car will also be fully serviced before sale and will come with a years MOT and 6 months road tax.
I have literally hundreds of photos of the car and will endeavour to get some posted up here as soon as I have selected some good ones.
The price is as you may expect high for a car like this, but considering the huge amount spent on the car its more than fair.
We will continue to use and enjoy the car until its sold, we are in absolutely no rush to sell and will hold out for the right price so please dont even bother with silly offers, the answer will be no.
Offers in the region of £20,000+
Anthony\'s car is a very decent one hence the price, but you can get a rebuild rx with a single turbo conversion for under £10K nowadays and then do what other mods you need to do to make it competitive :cheers
Ants car:
Thanks for the info fellas, but I have quite a clear idea of what it is I need to put together and what it needs to be in drivability terms. It is very easy to get carrired away with power on these kind of cars - but what I need is a balanced packaged. Hence me looking at what I imagine a large number of people feel is modest power.
Thanks also for the offer of already modded cars but I am a bit of a control freak and like to make my own selections in terms of suspension mods, etc - I intend to pick up a cheap plain RX7 direct from Japan (as I do not need it Uk registed - it can arrive at the docs and then it\'s back home on the trailer to be preped), strip it and work from there. (Also, the 20k would not be eligible for many race championships - and certainly not the one I\'m looking at - as the ad says it needs 120RON race fuel. Most UK championships at club level require you to run normal pump fuel. IE: Optimax or similar will be the highest octane you could use (with Millers added)
It may seem an odd way of doing it with so many big power RX7\'s for sale, but I\'m sure you\'ll be excited by what I produce.
Quote from: TonyCThanks for the info fellas, but I have quite a clear idea of what it is I need to put together and what it needs to be in drivability terms. It is very easy to get carrired away with power on these kind of cars - but what I need is a balanced packaged. Hence me looking at what I imagine a large number of people feel is modest power.
Thanks also for the offer of already modded cars but I am a bit of a control freak and like to make my own selections in terms of suspension mods, etc - I intend to pick up a cheap plain RX7 direct from Japan (as I do not need it Uk registed - it can arrive at the docs and then it\'s back home on the trailer to be preped), strip it and work from there. (Also, the 20k would not be eligible for many race championships - and certainly not the one I\'m looking at - as the ad says it needs 120RON race fuel. Most UK championships at club level require you to run normal pump fuel. IE: Optimax or similar will be the highest octane you could use (with Millers added)
It may seem an odd way of doing it with so many big power RX7\'s for sale, but I\'m sure you\'ll be excited by what I produce.
No worries, just a thought (btw Ant\'s car doesn\'t "need" 120 ron fuel, just makes more ponies with it...).
Can you give us a simplified list of the rules and regs regarding this championship, it sounds very very interesting indeed !!
I suspect you could pick up an early stock car for not a lot (especially if you are stripping it so interior condition isn\'t an issue. I\'d say your best bet would be to go for a 60k+ miles car without a rebuild for next to nought then get a race engine built by Carl Hayward.
My Drag car weighs 1080kg with 60kg\'s of cage It takes alot of work to get the weight down this low without compromising the chassis, As for Racing they make excellent circuit cars.
most of the RX\'s we have put on corner weight scales. have almost 50%split and 50% cross weights as well so well suited to racing
Geff
in terms of racing there is someone on here that does race one. he has not stripped it down too much if i am right. but i really cant think of his name. oh yes i can he goes under AtomicRX or something like that. Carl is involved with his car aswell, so as a builder that would be the one to talk to.
P.S a rex will kick a supra everyday of the year, so look no further.
Thanks again. If Weight can be between 1100 and 1200kg than I\'ll be reasonably content - although I\'ve been quite creative in the past in loosing weight in the car. Good useful guide info there though.
regs are pretty simply and it is class based, going on engine capacity (with a trubo multuplier) and tyres used. Beyond that you are pretty much restricted to engines from the same manufacture and pump fuel (plus the usual safety gear). So if you had a blank cheque book you could build somethign ridiculous and smoke everyone. But my blank cheque book must have got lost in the post - so this isn\'t a no-holds bared build - and it doesn\'t need to be. Good power, and good chassis balance is what I\'m after.
I\'ve been chatting to the Supra owners as well, and as you can imagine they are finding reasons why the Supra is better! One guy has raised two points whihc were interesting though - fuel and noise.
For a rotary engine running around 350 flywheel bhp are there reservations on the correct octane level of the fuel. Is optimax/vpower with millers safe and sufficent?
Secondly, I\'ve presumed the rotaries are a quiet engine, but I\'m bien gotld I\'m wrong. For racing their are increasing stricter noise limits and I\'ll need to keep the car ar around the 103db mark (or a little less ideally). I\'ll be sorting out a custom exhaust but are their breathing issues if you silences these cars a lot?
Cheers again.
Tony
Im guessing this may be against the rules, but are you allowed to run Water injection?
You should be able to get to 350 f/bhp on optimax without too much trouble (fair few have done it on here) and still be safe. WI would be a nice safety net though, and if you went for a full on mappable system you could get some bhp gains from running leaner AFR\'s and ignition advances.
For the power you want I dont think you\'ll have a problem exhaust wise, there are a few biggish bhp trackday-ers on here which need to be under noise limits and they have managed it. There is a thread about quiet exhausts at the moment actually http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30907 with some comments on good systems for keeping the noise down.
Great thread! Thanks. Water injection would be possible. Would have to be put on the cost vs benefit scales though.
I run at 330 rwhp at 0.85 Bar on Optimax using a T04S turbo.
I\'d imagine a T04Z to be the best turbo for a track car, early spool up, big power.
You wont need race fuel untill you go over 1.2 bar afaik, but you dont sound like you want to go that far even so no worries at all there (1.2 bar = 400 at the wheels roughly)
Noise wise, if you go single turbo (which you really must do if you wanna race it) dont get a screamer pipe :rollin
If cost was a factor I dont think you could go wrong with a simple boost activated system (around £200-£300 mark), would provide a lot of detonation prevention as well as constant intake temps around ambient or possibly below depending on set-up.
Heres a thread I started quite a while back when I first installed the kit if you fancied a read just showing how if affected my set-up, sdminus has posted some replys on there too, at the time he had just installed a simple system but has developed it into a great set-up now (12.0 1/4 mile on stock turbos, stock engine!)
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16789
Looking forward to seeing your race car, make sure you post up lots of pics when its built :)
Quote from: Red and SingleNoise wise, if you go single turbo (which you really must do if you wanna race it) dont get a screamer pipe :rollin
God no - i experienced mine for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Loud as hell! ASBO on wheels!!! :eek:
That WI stuff is very interesting.
What\'s involved in moving to a single turbo? Presumably you simplify a lot of the plumbing. Are there any threads regarding the change? IE: parts, cost, etc.
I\'ve been told the sequential setup on the car is a bit of a nightmare of parts?
As far as the twin turbo setup goes, it is complicated, but i think that if you\'re mithodical, then you can fix any errors that occur. However, a single setup is by far a LOT simpler.
You need uprated fuel pump, secondary injectors, manifold, wastegate, plumb back in downpipe and turbo. Uprated intercooler too. For the amount of time you\'d be spending racing, possibly a radiator too, although the heat build up might not be too bad. Something to be done for in the future maybe?
Tony, if you are budget conscious, you need to buy a car with a single turbo allready installed, it\'s so much cheaper.
But from stock you\'ll need.....
Turbo
Manifold
Wastegate
Boost Controller
Downpipe
Decat
Exhaust
Intercooler, Stock, Front or Pref V mount.
Bigger Injectors
FPR
Bigger Fuel Pump
That adds up to well over £5K and then you\'ve gotta get an ECU and get it mapped.
Seriously, get one with it all done already !!
^^^^
ecu as well :)
Zoinks! Quite a lot of stuff then. I\'ll probably use the sequential and only make a switch if either the power isn\'t sufficent (not likley), or the power delivery is unsuitable for racing (no idea!).
Also, I\'ve read the \'rats nest\' mentioned a few times in threads - what is it?
Just a nick name for all the vacuum pipes as theres rather a lot of \'em :)
Any pictures to scare me!?
just out of interest - did you find anyone local so that you could have a nosey round their car ??
there is a monthly meet at warrington - could be too far away from you
might mate has an FD in preston - thats pretty close to you
Stu
There is an argument which says a big power single is the best setup for the quarter mile but a well set up sequential is best for track work.
Quote from: TonyCAny pictures to scare me!?
Here\'s a link to a site going through the replacement process: http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/vachose/vacpics/indexjs.html
Blimey, looks like Medusa. I suppose as long as you have a map it should be straightforward - just fiddly and time consuming.
Preston is close, 30 minnutes or so.
Quote from: grinderjust out of interest - did you find anyone local so that you could have a nosey round their car ??
there is a monthly meet at warrington - could be too far away from you
might mate has an FD in preston - thats pretty close to you
Stu
Preston is nowhere near Skipton LOL...
Like i said by all means you can come round and have a gander at mine + its partly in bits so you can see alot of the plumbing etc :)
Will give you a buzz later on - at work, not working (!) at the mo.
Another question on power: as it\'ll never go near a road or MOT station I\'ll be able to dump any acts - what effect does this have on the potential power on the standard turbos? IE: if this is done even in standard spec does it release another 10? 20? 5? none?
not sure exact bhp as I havent been on dynos much to compare, but on 1/4 mile my best terminals were about 108-109mph before straight thru de-cat, and I got up to 114mph after with a few 11x\'s. Thats on standard tubs and lump.
So definately a fair bit of umph released
Best mods for a standard car have gotta be ...
Apexi PFC ECU
Cold air Intake
Decat
Exhaust
SMIC
That should see you well into 300\'s at the wheels on a good engine.
Possibly moderate fuel upgrade too, im at 0.9bar with them mods minus the SMIC im hitting over 90% injector duty at times. Depends how much you want to up boost by.
Quote from: Red and SingleBest mods for a standard car have gotta be ...
Apexi PFC ECU
Cold air Intake
Decat
Exhaust
SMIC
That should see you well into 300\'s at the wheels on a good engine.
Im 300+ atw with those mods but a FMIC & ported engine my injector cycle is maxd @ 100% in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear after 6k rpm:eek:
Hi Tony
Nice to see RX7 being taken as a serious track car.
Have a couple that may interest you and at good prices.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_RX7_shell.html
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Rd_legal_Track_car.html
Bell me anythime 07973 111333 Gary
There is no reason why the twins would not supply enough power for what you need, even if they do prove to be well set up but slightly underpowered you could use late-spec model turbos which can handle slightly more power. Ross from dragon has late spec twins pushing out 400hp (not sure about fly or rear wheel hp) so it\'s definately attainable.
The only thing that would worry me from a racing point of view is the tiny waver in power and torque at the changeover (around 4500rpm) as i\'m pretty sure this little spurt is what put out the back end of my first car and put it in a wall. I wouldn\'t want that to catch me unawares halfway through a commited maneuver!
Make sure you keep us posted on this project though, it sounds very interesting :)
Hey Tony,
I\'ve built a car that still uses the stock twin turbos, all be it in non-sequential mode, it makes an easy 325atw\'s at 1bar of boost and can get on any circuit in the uk no problems. This year it was entered in the time attack series, and has done more than 8 track days and 1 trip to the ring with only oil, filter and spark plug changes required. We run the car on any old super petrol and with someone decent behind the wheel it would be very quick indeed round a circuit. And I think in total the car stands us at 8k and that includes all the running costs (excluding petrol, insurance and tax) for 1 1/2 years.
So yes, it is very possible to build a car of the type you\'re after within a reasonable budget.
Hope that helps,
Paul
P.S. I\'m originally from Bingley and my family now lives in Steeton. I intednd on coming back for a weekend within the next few weeks... so yeah I can happily show you the car then. Just let me know.
Quote from: TonyCAny pictures to scare me!?
.....................
Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comHi Tony
Nice to see RX7 being taken as a serious track car.
Have a couple that may interest you and at good prices.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_RX7_shell.html
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Rd_legal_Track_car.html
Bell me anythime 07973 111333 Gary
Gary, the green car is interesting - does it still have the dent?
Exactly as shown in photos. Wing just wants pulling out according to a friend who looked at it, especially if racing :-)
Cheers, so it needs the dent sorting, a rear light? and rear bumper?
1 rats nest, as requested:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/delarado/Rex%20Rebuild/day15/DSC00066.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/delarado/Rex%20Rebuild/day15/DSC00067.jpg)
Dent nees pulling out, Light has crack in it but works, cant see that you would have to change that for a track car, and the rear bumper is complete just wants putting back on when dent is pulled out.
That green car looks like a good starting point.
On stock twins - you could run around 320hp reliably at stock boost with bolt-on mods in my signature (I have had my dynoed) on stock engine. However, I would advise against FMIC. If you have money, V-mount setup is the best as its a compromise between engine cooling (radiator) and air cooling (intercooler). If you go with FMIC, you will have hard time keepin the temperature down for 20min sessions.
And I\'ve read about RX7\'s down to 1000kg, but it gets expensive under 1150kg.
You will also want to uprate the front swaybar mounts as stock ones are prone to crack.
Definately some Koyo or Fluidyne race radiator.
About stock twins vs. single turbo - I like my stock twins on the track, but top speed on the track I go to is around 110mph, which doesnt call for massive power. What I need is good response and power increase at 4500RPM can catch you out if you arent used to it. But you\'re driving the car and not the other way around. Its not as bad a some may think.
Here is my dyno graph (the RPMs are a bit off at the top of rev-range) on stock boost. At that time I didnt yet have the ignition amp installed (HKS Twin Power)
(http://cruiser.moj-album.com/slike/365399/561WSEWByA7f_4SQ.jpg)
Hiya Tony,
I currently race an RX in the Castle Combe Special GT class. Firstly Id like to say good choice of car! But dont think about doing this on a budget!
My car is doing rather well. We started off with a bad trip to the Ring, in which I ended up crashing due to the rain. Then to top it off due to tiredness (2 1/2 hours sleep prior to a race = lots of expense!!!) we crashed again. Our next race the engine blew up...but then having spent time down with Carl the engine was rebuilt and its been pretty damn good ever since! Weve since had 2 second place finishes, then 2 first place finishes at Combe. We rocked up to Pembrey last weekend and took 2 pole positions in qualifying, we converted the first, but due to an oil leak had to settle for second place in the second race!
Ive uploaded the race
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6788872497926333604
The start is amusing as this is where I realise I have oil going onto the front tyre and brakes :eek:
So the car is a proven thing!!!
My recommendations are as follows:
If you are intending to do circuit racing then dont go for big power. Carl rebuilt the engine, ported and using ceramic tips but otherwise standard.
Using stock twins is unnecessary, I run a GT35 and that spools up in plenty of time with no lag what-so-ever! Plus we only run 0.85 bar, so the engine will last!
There is no need to worry about WI.
Make sure you go and get a good V Mount I never see temps that would worry in either water or oil
You will need the following:
Strip the whole car down to bare metal (inside) remove all of the wiring, and aircon, abs, and all of the sound proofing. (Make sure you have a large bin handy and an EBay account!)
If you want to get the car seem welded (I didnt as Id already had a paint job, all be it crap, and you need to get the shell dipped) it adds to improving the chassis strength
Next get a roll cage fitted. Dont compromise here, there really isnt any point, I went to custom cages. They will only do it if the car is stripped out...no glass or petrol tank either! Cost £2000, but then its your life and I value mine at more than that!!! The last thing you want to be saying when you’ve just gone into the tyre wall is why did I not get a proper cage fitted! Plus it needs to be FIA compliant and the scrutiner’s will check it!
I then had a custom loom made up. This saves a fortune in weight.
You will need to get electrical cut outs, and a fire extinguisher set up (I went electrical, so you can isolate it and not have to worry about someone pulling the lever in the pits or in a car park!!!)
You need to fit a heater, to stop the windscreen misting up, there are a couple of routes you can use here, one guy uses a 12V hairdryer!!!
You need to get a race battery, and get it all moved…mines in the front passenger footwell
You need decent seats, and runners. I don’t know how tall you are, but you need to lower the seats down to the floor!!!! I use Corbeau Pro Series Carbon/Kevlar seats, and Sabelt 6 point 3†belts.
Next you need to look at suspension, I bought double adjustable shocks from Penske. They are roughly £600 a corner, but worth every penny. There are other bits that need to be done, and over the winter Im having a back to shell refresh, and one thing Im doing is redoing the wiring loom and also inboard and outboard rose jointing.
Next we did the Diff. A new and stronger LSD, and the final drive is changed, same as the Rz….kills the top end, but where the hell do you intend to hit 180? We also fitted a diff pump and cooler.
You need to look at the exhaust, so of the racing is ok…Combe is 108db on race day, but testing is difficult and you pay one mother of a premium if you want to test on race only days.
You will need wheels and tyres. I have bought 12 wheels, 1 set of inters, 1 set of wets (these second hand are rare as rocking horse poo!), 1 set of slicks.
Don’t run a body kit! It is a total waste of time and money!!!!
Although Im having a new front splitter, and rear diffuser made for the car out of Carbon.
Do get an aftermarket bonnet though, and use 2 sets of bonnet pins so it can come off whilst in the pits.
If you contact me I will give you info on where you can get a lot of this stuff, so you can speed up the process.
Im running at the Strokes Association Day at Castle Combe on sat 28/10, if you want to come down and have a look..
Excellent stuff, thanks fella. A lot of the setup/prep stuff I\'ve already considered as this isn\'t the first race car I\'ve built but still useful to know about your expeirence and costs.
The car will be totally taken apart - that is why I\'m looking at a cheap jap import, rather than a cherished UK car - becuase no onwner will want to see what happens to their pride and joy once I get my hands on it.
I\'ve already decided the bonnet will be a lightweight item and I will junk the hinges. I prefer to run 4 pins (one in each corner) and have the bonnet come right off - makes working ont he car a lot easier although you have to be careful when it is windy! Likewise for the tailgate - although it depends on total weight as the thing looks huge!
Interesting comment on the heater, I run a closed car at the moment but with the heater removed and I\'ve avoided misting up - even in very wet races. I run quie a lot of ventilation but I also found the Mist-X window treatment is fecking superb.
I like the video at the start, I can almost hear your eyes popping out of the helmet looking for the escape road when you realise you aren\'t quite stopping a expected. We\'ve all been there at some time :D
I\'d love to speak in more detail but my forum membership doesn\'t seem to allow me to send PM\'s or see e-mails - so if you can whizz me a contact e-mail or somethign that would be great. I\'d love to try and get down to CC next weekend - bit of a trek but woudl be worthwhile - I\'ll have to see if I can make it. If I bring a helmet can I blag a ride? (if it has a scond seat)
Your driving in that race is very amusing !!
Nice one !!
Yeah its a shame I didnt press record on the first race!!!
The oil made it near impossible to brake!!!! But I didnt know what the problem was so just carried on as my mechanics werent pulling me in! Need the signitures to get an international to race the car at the ring next year!!!
Quote from: TonyCExcellent stuff, thanks fella. A lot of the setup/prep stuff I\'ve already considered as this isn\'t the first race car I\'ve built but still useful to know about your expeirence and costs.
The car will be totally taken apart - that is why I\'m looking at a cheap jap import, rather than a cherished UK car - becuase no onwner will want to see what happens to their pride and joy once I get my hands on it.
I\'ve already decided the bonnet will be a lightweight item and I will junk the hinges. I prefer to run 4 pins (one in each corner) and have the bonnet come right off - makes working ont he car a lot easier although you have to be careful when it is windy! Likewise for the tailgate - although it depends on total weight as the thing looks huge!
Interesting comment on the heater, I run a closed car at the moment but with the heater removed and I\'ve avoided misting up - even in very wet races. I run quie a lot of ventilation but I also found the Mist-X window treatment is fecking superb.
I like the video at the start, I can almost hear your eyes popping out of the helmet looking for the escape road when you realise you aren\'t quite stopping a expected. We\'ve all been there at some time :D
I\'d love to speak in more detail but my forum membership doesn\'t seem to allow me to send PM\'s or see e-mails - so if you can whizz me a contact e-mail or somethign that would be great. I\'d love to try and get down to CC next weekend - bit of a trek but woudl be worthwhile - I\'ll have to see if I can make it. If I bring a helmet can I blag a ride? (if it has a scond seat)
Its a charity day, so yes you can blagg a ride, but you have to pay for it :D
contact me through Racing@atom290.co.uk
Cheers
Jon
Ooooh, what series can you race at the \'ring in. I was planning on doing an historic event next year in my curent car and missing that was the one thing I\'d felt I\'d regret once I move onto the Mazda.
If I can race at the \'ring in that car - even better. It\'s a cracking track -I presume you\'ve been to it before?
Pay! Normally people pay me to sit in the passenger seat :D Although they usually expect me to shout stuff at them about their driving as well, usually it is to tell them to accelerate harder and brake later, and to stop being a big girl.
I\'ll be in touch once I know if I can get down there or not. Mayeb bring my brotehr down as well - He is currently just starting a GT40 replica build - with a view to a few races as well. Car mad eh!
yeah once or twice.....ive done a good couple of thousand laps :D
Were these Electronic laps:spank :D
Oh no!
Ive been going there for the past 7 1/2 years now.
I used to teach on a bike...used to do upwards of 30 laps a day for 4/5 days non stop!
aha, that makes a really nice change. I\'ve spoken to so many people who have done loads of laps - in GT4 :confused:
You taught on a bike - crikey. That is not a task I\'d like to do. You must be a very brave man. Just reminded me, I was there 3 weeks ago and there was a sidecar outfit going around! Mental - even getting the sidecar off it\'s wheel on some corners.
So what race is the RX7 going to be in. You\'re not doing the VLN are you?
no i want to do the 24hr race!
That would be pretty damn good, but don\'t forget your spare bulbs! and pants!
Do you have a fuel sponsor? That is going to be expensive. My friends who race the V8 engined MGZT (Dreadnought garage in Scotland) did the Britcar 24hrs in the ZT last year, and Brian told me the fuel bill (IIRC) was about £1400!
Im gonna sell the rides for it, so that will be a major factor!!!
Well last night Freddy from Transcars was kind enough to let me look at some of the cars he has and let me see a single and sequential turbo setup. A big thanks to the fella for giving up his time for me last night, it was very useful.
Really it just confirmed what I was thinking and I was already about 99% certain of building up an RX7 as my next race. So looks like the project is on, jst waiting for the current race car to sell off e-bay - then I can source my base car and begin work.
I\'ll keep an update on here/or build up a web site as the project moves along. I\'m sure as I work to lighten the car some people may be shocked by my level of controlled butchery!
Still undecided on sequential or single - the sequential was pretty linear in it\'s power delivery to be fair. I\'ll address that as I go through the engine build and make a choice a little further down in the process.
One thing I did realise is that I\'m going to have to fit a removable wheel - it was very difficult getting into the car with a fixed bucket seat - and it\'ll be harder still with a cage with door bars!
Hopefully in a week or two I\'ll be able to update this saying I\'ve got the base car.
One thing I need to soruce is a workshop manual of some kind of the car - are these available on the web,or from mazda?
Tony
Excellent news! So you\'ve been won over the Supra then. I think that\'s a good decision.
Hiya Tony,
Shame you cant come down to Combe tomorrow....We are at Bedford in a couple of weeks if you fancy coming down to that?
We have a removeable steering wheel too.....actually very useful because you can use a smaller wheel and not have your hands fowl against the stalks and also as you say allows ease of access into the car over the tubes
We are going to be developing a number of items for next year....if you want to chat further about them you can use some on yours if you like!
We might meet on a circuit soon ;)
Yes, shame about CC, but my wife is running her craft stall at the local fair tomorrow so I\'m on kids duty. When are you at Bedford (and if you are able to run at Bedford with their noise regs then we REALY need to chat about your exhaust - must be fabulous!) as I would very much like to come down.
Handily Freddy did have a Supra as well - and it just looked a big bloated thing -It would be at least 200kg heavier than the RX7 in race form and that adds up to a lot over a lap time.
It\'ll be interesting to hear about what items you are developing, and it would be nice to see two RX7\'s on track fighting it out :Thumbs-up
Ohhh a seam welded FD! I\'d love to get mine done but it\'d have to be completly stripped!!
AtomicRex, do you run on standard Mazda bushes? Oh and if you don\'t mind telling me what spring rates do you run and have you changed the roll bars or mounts?
At the moment the springs are way too hard!
We are running 1200 on the front and 1050 on the rear 6" springs plus helpers. We are planning to move up to 9" and then Im gonna buy a range of springs from 800 to 1000 for the front and similar for the rear....see what the difference is. Ive had to wind down the bump on the shocks to 1 for Combe which doesnt leave me much to go on for the wet!
Some of the changes for the winter are full inboard outboard rose joints. Im also going to get the uprights machined so as to lower the roll centres.
The other major thing is weight! It is still has loads of weight to be removed...so its all coming out For a start Im getting a carbon fibre dash made :D
1200! Blimey. Are you using 2.5ID springs on coil overs? I was going to speak to Leda about coilover/dampers/springs, I know other racers/rally drivers who speak highly of their products.
Why not use the Penske ones im running???
All of the valving has been worked out, and they werent that expensive but make one hell of a difference
I like to research options. Bit of a control freak: even though somone may well tell me the perfect answer I have to go around and then find out that was the case anyway! Drives my wife mad :Thumbsup!
I\'ll certainly be looking at them as well.
Something I did mean to ask, do you still run the brake servo. I\'m not a terrific fan of servo brakes - do you run with, or without - pedal feel and modulation ok if you do? Or have you swapped the whole pedal box, master cylinder, etc anway?
Also, I was looking at a car Freddy had brought in from Japan as an ex-race acr (Jap style) and it had the power steering removed. This struck me as a tad unusual and not something I\'d considered as useful or needed - any comment from your expriences?
I suppose an option would be, if you don\'t want the engine powering the power steering pump would be too fit an electric power steering pump? Would that be a possible option?
It\'s not something I\'m considering, I\'m wondering why the Japanese car I was looking at, had it removed.
Having fitted the KAD brakes to the car the stopping power was incredible....but very dangerous! Especially in the wet. Because the original installers left the Servo on, the brakes are just way too powerful with no feel, and all at the top of the action! I have a bias Valve fitted but all that does is just cause the rear pads to fade.
To get round this we took the vacum pipe off to the servo and although the feel isnt as good as it could be its giving me more pedal travel, without the monumental lock ups!!
One of the other winter projects is to remove the pedal box and replace with a Tilton one.
Im also thinking of swapping the rack for a quicker rack without the power steering...why do you need it? I cant think of anytime I will be driving down to Sainsbury\'s ;)
Id beware of bringing anything over from Japan already converted...some of their fabrication isnt the best ive seen, although better than some I have!
And also their rollcages are horrid! I ended up paying a lot of money to get a good cage put in....Round the ring it feels very secure!!!
Oh, I\'ve no intention of bringing in a pre-modded car - I\'m doing the prep here then I know exactly what is fitted and how old it is, how it\'s been built/fitted and so on. I\'ve got to have a lot of faith in the car if I\'m racing it at high speed and I\'d prefer to know exactly how well it has been put together.
I\'ve no real need for the power steering (although I\'ve not got arms like popeye!), although getting rid isn\'t high on my list of jobs - Save that for season 2!
A pic from the strokes day.....We had a slight oil problem!!!
At least I managed to have the fire car chase me down!!
And no it wasnt a neon...the car was actually on fire!:flamed
Eek! Any lasting damage?
Atomic, what class do you race in Castle Combe GTs? I\'m looking at the regs and I\'m a little confused where you have fitted in.
Thanks.
Tony
Only just read this thread, looks awesome, Are there any more events at castle combe anytime soon? i dont live far from castle combe and would love to come up and watch.
Tony,
Im in Class D of the Special GT\'s
You worried the hell out of me! But I have checked the regs over, and providing they dont change anything for this forthcoming year.....we should be fine :)
Sweetie, you are more than welcome to come along.....I get a discount of the tickets inc paddock passes, so drop me a mail if you want to come and watch!
heh Sorry fella! Thanks for letting me know.
Just waiting for the other car to sell now. Frustrating business this. I\'ve no room in the workshop to even bring in the base car and start striping it down until this one goes.
Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comHi Tony
Nice to see RX7 being taken as a serious track car.
Have a couple that may interest you and at good prices.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_RX7_shell.html
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Rd_legal_Track_car.html
Bell me anythime 07973 111333 Gary
Gary, I\'ve tried to call you a couple of times regarding the green car. I\'ve just whizzed you an e-mail with my number in it now- could you give me a call when you are free, to discuss the car and to arrange a time to take a look at the car (if it is still for sale).
Thanks
Tony
Gary seems to have dissappeared off the face of the planet for the time being. I\'m still waiting for my bonnet :(
Tony
Are you just looking at buying the shell?
I know that one of carl\'s engines is for sale in the "For Sale" section If the engine is half as good as the one he built for me then you wont go wrong getting it!
Weve just bought carbon fibre wings ;) Although Im planning on getting a mould made and a few changes made to them!!
Do ya want some?
I was planning on buying a complete car and upgrading - that way I have everything. If I buy an empty shell there will be hundred of daft components I\'ll need to source. Ideally a complete (but knackered) car would do me as so much will be replaced, upgraded anyway. What is interesting about the green one is that it already has what appears to be a proper cage in it, and it has been converted to single turbo - that\'s a good few steps along the preparation process. I\'d not seen the motor for sale - I\'ll take a look. Who is Carl? Sounds like someone I need to start talking to.
I\'d love some Carbon wings - But - the DDMC championship regs don\'t allow alternative materials except for bonnet/bootlid/tailgate - so I\'d be breaking the regs if I went for them. :(
If I can\'t get hold of Gary, or I don\'t like something about the green car when I\'ve looked at it, then I\'ll go back to my original plan which was to directly import a worn out RX7 from Japan and prepare that - they are very cheap these days, and ok they will be very worn out - but I\'m not intending on just registering and driving it - it\'ll be stripped back and re-built. I don;t see the point in buying a 7-8k car that has been lovingly looked after and had a motor rebuilt, when I then take it all apart and re-do it anyway.
The downside to the import route is that I\'ll be lucky to get a car here before the new year and I could have done a lot of prep work to a car in those weeks.
Although, I\'ve been watching a couple of cheaper RX7\'s on ebay and they may or may not be considered as well.
Step 1 is to check out the green one, I have a firm, genuine offer for my current race car so that should be sold in a few more days - I then want to get my base car ASAP to start preparing. If the green car checks out ok then potentially I\'d buy it there and then. You know what racing drivers are like - once we get a plan we are pretty focused and like to get on with it, with no messing about! I do need to check it over though.
Quote from: TonyCYou know what racing drivers are like - once we get a plan we are pretty focused and like to get on with it, with no messing about! I do need to check it over though.
Aye! ;)
I know this to my cost!
Update: 22.11.2006
I\'ve now put down a deposit on Gary\'s green single turbo RX7, will pick up in a week or two - Needs a cross brace in the cage to be MSA/FIA compliant but that is all (confirmed by Andy Robinson who built the cage).
Will update regularly now as the project moves along. I\'ll be writing the build plan up later this week so I know what I need to do. it\'ll be along the lines: Safety essentials first, so cage sorting, then sorting the electrics/loose wires and installing a battery isolator. Then repair dent, etc in the side. Then move onto the interior whihc will be cleaned up, dash sorted and the entire interior and cage repainted in white and fit removable wheel, new instruments, seat, harnesses etc. Then install extinguisher and move onto work on the body/suspension/brakes. Once that is all done then tidy up the paint work,bumpers, etc. sort out the weight by removing glass, lightening doors, etc. Then move onto the motor and installing a new ECR and sorting out mapping, etc.
Oh, also need to sort out the exhaust! Loud? It\'s like a canon. I reckon it could propel a medium sized dog at least a hundred meters just by starting up!
Cheers to Gary for his hospitality and putting up with me being a bit late!
Hey, nice one!
Good luck with it, and make sure you keep us informed!
I should have a price on the rear windscreens tonight and the side windows!!! :D
Loads of weight saving
You are going to have to come down and do a race at Combe....just dont take the lap record off me....its mine :D
:D Be really interested in the window price. As I was looking at the tailgate I was already mentally drilling holes in the inner frame. I love my hole cutter.
Dont loose stiffness....pha nah pha nah!
:evillaugh It wouldn\'t be one of my race cars if body panels didn\'t wobble in the airstream!
This is shaping up to be a fascinating project, will continue to watch this thread with interest.
I have only just noticed this thread. We compete with our car in a Hillclimb championship. Its a learning experience for us and we have only done 1 full year but we are getting far more competitive. If you want any advice feel free to send me an email ajf@stertegarage.com
PS we rarely run 120ron fuel, thats only for special occasions ;) We dont use it when we race as thats banned I believe.
Ant.
Aha, another one appears - We should start a team!
120 ron! have to use pump fuel I\'m afraid.
What spec is your car then?
Quote from: RemarkLimaYeah, the roadsports has been dying a death this year sadly... And without it the MR2 challenge would have never happened!
I\'ll definately keep an eye on that, looks very interesting! 520bhp should be "enough" ;)
I didn\'t know roadsports had packed up. I used to deal a lot with Doug Elwood from David Gerald TVR when I owned Tivs but haven\'t seen him for about 6 months now. I had noticed his Tuscan for sale through the garage and wondered why...
Cheers
DC
Quote from: TonyCWho is Carl? Sounds like someone I need to start talking to
Carl built my engine and did a fantastic job. The engine is as sweet as anything ive ever driven before..
I need to do a rolling road session with him first, then get him in the car out on track...but this is only to eek out the final stages of the map.
I think there is an engine of Carls for sale on the forum, if I was you get it!!!
Hi Tony,
You can contact me if you like.
07776 304174
Regards
Carl
Many thanks Carl, I\'ll be in touch once I get to the engine side of the car - There are other preparation stuff to sort first though.
Update 6.12.2006
After a mamoth journey that started at 5:00am and finished at 12:05am I now have a RX7 in the garage and I can start the preparation.
As you can see it already has a pretty substantial cage! But this cheeky chappie will have to wait a few years before he gets a go!
(http://www.justgofaster.com/gallery/gallery/tonys_mg/dsci0148.jpg)
Tony you seemed older when I chatted to you on the phone ;)
Well done!!!
Ive bought a few nice things!!
Got lots of carbon stuff now
Bonnett
Wings
Spliter
Wing
Doors
Tailgate
and the lexan is all on order!!
Anyone wanting any of the above especially the weight saving of the windows (drivers and passenger and boot window) getting in touch with Gary at Rotaryarts.
We are going to be sub 1000kgs
Isn\'t that Gary\'s old car? You got a good one there :Thumbsup!
Very interesting project! Lookingforward to seeing it in the future. Have you checked out FDUK.ORG? More of an FD thing, few track day heros on there to chat too :god
How much is the rear lexan window? PM me if you like.
Hiya Ben,
Although I have instigated the windows I\'m afraid it is Gary (rotaryarts) who is sponsoring this one for me, so you will need to chat to him.
They are rather special though....as they are a direct replacement for the originals...except obviously there is no rear heater ;)
The side windows are a direct replacement as well....these were a little more complicated than originally thought as there is a slight curve to the window, so unlike a Mk1 Escort you cant just get a bit of plexi glass from B&Q and rivet it into place.
Ideally they will come as a set, but as said chat to Gary and he will help.
Cheers
Jon
I\'m also in the process of ordering a carbon Fibre Tailgate for the rear window to go in...should save at least 30kgs :D
Good stuff there Atomix! I\'ve some catching up to do - I suspect season 1 will be a learning season for me and then more mods will come during next years off season. Car does seem lighter than expected though - it barely felt different when towed to my previous car and that only weighed 876kg - and pushing the car around by hand it really doesn\'t feel 1200kg. Feels a hundred or more less. Lots of stuff to take off as well. I\'ll be building a web page up on my site with updates, rather than using the club site - need to join now as well!
I\'ve already got the Bomex kit off the car (as I don\'t like it), so that will be coming up for sale soon. As will all the window electrics and so on. I think there was aguy after window glass as well on here....?
Gary has a lot of good stuff and I\'m sure he will be getting quite a bit of custom from us two over the next few months!
Will take a look at FDuk.org as well.
PS: Yep, it is Gary\'s old car.
Cool, very interested in both your cars, I know Initial-D is building something very special himself and I have my own project going (on a very limited budget)
When you guys know dates and venues for the races I\'d love to come along! Post details up here or drop me a line (if you dont mind)
Sorry, non members not allowed to put up email address unless in For Sale section
PM Initial-D details and he can pass it onto me :)
Yeah like Kieron said, we have some plans to put into action over the chilly period! Keeps us from eating mince pies all day I guess lol! ;)
I\'d like to watch you compete also! Plus have a good chat about settings etc.. since you guys have experience in the field compared to myself!