I\'m not going to do a main rebuild thread as so many people have done them before, however I\'m hoping to change a few other things as well as the rebuild so may do a "how to" thread on a few of those changes. :D
So far the winter project list is this...
- Rebuild the engine,
- Large street port,
- Fit an uprated clutch,
- Lightened flywheel,
- Apexi ECU,
- Custom secondary fuel rail with 1680 injectors,
- Uprate the primary injectors to 850\'s,
- Swirl pot,
- Uprated fuel pump.
There are lots of little bits which have to be done as well but I can\'t think of them all so have been left off the list. haha :D
On saturday afternoon me and DanDan started taking the engine out of my 93 RX7 ready for the rebuild. We didn\'t have an engine hoist at the time so we just made sure everything was either disconnected or taken off, so that as soon as DanDan brings around the engine hoist that I\'m cheekly borrowing from him we can take the engine straight out.
This is the bulk standard engine still completely stock.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Thestart.jpg)
This is what the stock gearbox undertray should look like if you have access to a degreasing tank.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Undertray.jpg)
And shock horror this is a pic of DanDan actually working. :p
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/DanDanworking.jpg)
The help is much appreciated by the way DanDan. :D
Gearbox undertray?
I dont have one of those! :(
A picture of me actually doing some work? my reputation is ruined!
Think you may be a bit excessive with the injector sizes, should be able to leave the primaries as 550\'s for streetable driving and power.
aside from that, get your wallet out so we can get on with this rebuild!
p.s bobfish, ive never seen one of those gearbox trays either.
Looks fun :)
Hope it all goes well for you :)
what turbo will you be running?
Good work! and I agree with DanDan, you wont need to update those primaries. I still dont have injector duty problems running bridge port, TO4Z, 1680 secondaries and 1.2 bar boost.
I have one of those gearbox undertrays. Lying in the garage at the moment. Half a chance it\'s been crushed too! :p
Blitz - This is stage one, as it were, in my dream build. The second, third and forth stages not to mention the most expensive stages are...
stage 2 - Tein Flex Coilovers
stage 3 - V-Mount
stage 4 - T70 single turbo. :D
Sounds like you\'ve got your work cut out Rich! (and your wallet emptied!)
Keep up the good work :)
Engine crane tuesday night Rich.
If you are bored tonight we can get the clutch and bell housing off to make sure it is ready for the crane, i\'ll only have it for one night.
Hi Rich,
Good to see your getting stuck into it! I would offer my services as a spanner monkey, but I don\'t have the time to work on my own car(s) at the moment! If you and Dan need some extra hands at some point just give us a shout and I\'ll try to be there:chat
While the engine is out- if you need to polish bits and bobs up, I know of a freshly purchased bench grinder with polishing mops that you\'ll be able to access;)
Good luck with it all!
If you boys need a hand along the line, give me a shout.
Cheers,
John
Second MRC member in shock \'doing some work\' scandal:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00617.jpg)
(although admittedly he was attempting to TIGHTEN a bolt instead of loosening it, which makes it less productive. Lefty loosey rich)
:p
P.s anyone know if you can take the stock downpipe off before removing the engine? Cos we could only access 3 of the 4 bolts, but i dont fancy trying to drag the block out with the downpipe still attached. Any ideas?
Good luck with it all guys :),
Something id like to do one day, got some plans this winter too but not quite as grand. Would be keen to see how you get on, any progress pics, hints and tips etc would be cool :cool
Downpipe wise, i remember when I had to get under and tighten mine bac up, 1 nut completely rattled off and the other was loose, remember them all being a bit of a PITA to get to. Is it the one with the steering column in the way that your having trouble with?
if you are stood by the passenger wing looking into to engine bay, it is the top left nut that is the trouble, the large cast pipe joining the turbo\'s is in the way but it doesnt look removable from in situ. the other three look reasonably accessible.
You can remove the Y Pipe and get to the downpipe bolts. It goes a little like this:
Get under car, remove two bolts on back of secondary turbo and remove the pipe that the air filter connects to. Withdraw it from the top.
Undo all 4 bolts on the Y Pipe itself. The front two are easy to get to. The rear two you can do with a regular 10mm and a UJ. They are difficult to get to, but entirely posisble.
Now remove the Y pipe - its a bit of a job to get off, but fiddle it around and it will come off. You might end up breaking the gasket as it catches the threads of the studs.
Now you can undo the downpipe bolts. If the studs stay in the turbos, you will need to undo the engine mounts and lift the engine a bit to actually get the downpipe off. Just remove all 4 nuts and then remove the downpipe as you remove the engine itself.
I can 100% definately positively recommend removing the downpipe to remove the engine. Getting the engine in and out with the downpipe on is a BASTARD.
P.s MOVE THOSE AXLE STANDS!!!!!!!
STick them under the chassis rails with small blocks of wood on to stop them scratching the underseal. You should be putting them under the flat bit just by the guy in the photo\'s left hand. The sills are a bit fragile and definately not ideal to hold up a car on.
^ I\'ll second that, my sills look they\'ve had a hard life :(
Thanks for all the replies and the advice guys it is all much appreciated.
I have to admit that I\'d have prefered to put the axel stands somewhere else, but when I looked up on where Mazdas jacking points were, they only recommended the side sills which I thought sucked.
Will move them tonight and use the chassis rails, although it shouldn\'t be up on axel stands for very much longer as it was only while we were getting the engine out.
The pic of me working is all lies, I was set up i tell you. :D lol
On another note...
Anyone thinking of undertaking this sort of DIY themselves should invest in a set of ratchet spanners as they have been a god send so far. :D
When we did mine, we half raised the engine in the engine bay with the downpipe still attached - we then had beeter visibility to the downpipe nuts and bolts, and better access too.
Quote from: StormBleederinvest in a set of ratchet spanners as they have been a god send so far. :D
:D
The FDs best friend :)
:)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00630.jpg)
I make that a shade under 9 hours work. :p
Well as Dan pointed out, a little over 9 hours and the engine popped out.
Although what Dan failed to mention in his last post was while he was playing around disconnecting a coolant hose, he had a little accident...
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Coolantleak.jpg)
As Dan found out there was still a little bit of coolant left in the pipe. :D
The engine is hopefully going to be stripped by me and Dan on Friday night ready for cracking the flywheel nut on saturday morning. :Thumbs-up
Although now the engine is out I\'m going to spend a few days tidying and cleaning the engine bay up a bit, and also removing the air con system. :D
Finally another pic of our success from the other side. lol
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Engineout2.jpg)
That picture doesn\'t even half show how wet I got! It\'s all I could smell on the way home, and now my van stinks of it. :spank
It\'s getting a bit cold to do this stuff outside now, brrr!
Well after tomorrow it should be in lots of tiny bits so we can take it inside, because tonight we went from this:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00640.jpg)
to this:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00656.jpg)
:)
As you can see by the DanDan\'s second pic the exhast port for the rear rotor is looking very damp....we\'re thinking waterseal failiure, also the sloshing noice coming from that rotor gives it away. :(
Has been fun getting it out and stripping it down....although it\'s definatly going back in as a single turbo because I really don\'t want to put the rats nest back in. What a work of art and simplicity it isn\'t. :D
I had a simalr thing happen on my rebuild but it turned out to be Fuel :)
long story short:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown.jpg)
No seriously corroded parts between the water seal channel and jacket, so may have just been the water seal itself failing and we caught it before it ate the metal.
Better get scrubbing rich!
are you going to use wiremesh to scrub it? because I\'m rebuilding and not sure what material to use :P
Thanks
great thread guys, keep it up.
just thought to add a pic of side housing on a motor im rebuilding at the mo that has actually blown the waterway into the groove which the guys are trying to explain about.
This motor was full of water on the back rotor when stripped down.
water O ring failure .
Good work guys - make\'s it look so easy! :Thumbs-up
Quote from: Ricco_04Good work guys - make\'s it look so easy! :Thumbs-up
I can post up the 100 or so intermediate pictures if you want, makes it look a damn sight more awkward! I wouldn\'t say it was easy but it is a lot of fun and it is getting easier with practice.
Good pic there Stuart, that is exactly what I expected to find but didn\'t, we only had a slight ratty edge on one small section.
Joeh, I dont know what to use yet to clean things up, but i dont think using an abrasive on any internal surfaces would be advised, just good cleaning fluids and a lot of elbow grease.
p.s oil pumps are cool! :)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown6.jpg)
Well it\'s been a while now since the engine came out so thought I\'d do a quick update on what\'s been going on.
Well I took all the plates, housings and rotors down to Tims a couple of weeks ago, to see if anything was worth re-using. Unfortunatly the only thing that is still good are the rotors, so I have to get new housing and plates. :eek
But at least I\'ll have an awesome little engine when I\'m done. :D
The plates are unusable because although they didn\'t have any breaks in the water seal yet, they were very badly pitted and thin around the edge of the water seal and would never make a decent seal, so there out.
The housings have cracked around the spark plug holes and have been scorched and marked quite badly. See Pic...
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/CrackedHousing.jpg?t=1164021968)
Well at least I have some plates and housings that I can practice porting on now. Anyone want to supply me with porting templates for a large street port I would be very grateful. :Thumbsup!
I\'ve also cleaned up my rotors, well got all the lumps of carbon off anyway.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/CleanerRotors.jpg?t=1164022015)
I would also like to thank RXMotors and Tim especially for giving them the once over and telling me if they were any good, it is much appreciated.
Making some good progress matey:Thumbsup!
And Tim is a nice fellow indeed:Thumbs-up
Have you measured the plates yourself?
Its not a hard job. Not saying anyone is lying to you but i personally prefer to make my own judgements. If you put it back together and it doesnt seal its only going to cost you the cost of time to tear it down again. Id say thats worth the risk for a £900+ potential saving on parts. Obviously though as i say, measure them yourself. My car blew a water seal, and overheated quite a few times, and its survived 10,000 miles now and lots of laps on the nurburgring and full tilt all the time, it goes sideways daily and never gets driven unless its being abused and it still pulls perfect compression and doesnt use any coolant at all.
Im sick of people thinking that EVERYTHING has to be PERFECT with these engines. I can understand wanting to get it right if your paying someone 2000 to do the job and possibly having to pay another 2000 to get them to strip it down again if you dont get a new end plate, thats a big bill - but since your doing it yourself why potentially waste money? Its not hard to strip a 13b and a couple of little pits here and there on the end plates arent going to make your engine blow up in 2000 miles are they? (obviously it depends on seriousness though)
Check the plates before you dish out dollar
Anybody got any street porting templates *max street legal please :D*
Thanks
Thats some good advice there bobfish, I think the housings are gone for sure, and even Tim said we could use the plates if we wanted, as the seal has not been fully breached anywhere, but the fact is a 50,000 mile plate will by definition only last another 10-20k typically, especially as the edges have obviously been degraded already due to lack of correct coolant (?) or whatever reason.
A few extra squid on brand new plates means peace of mind and possibly an extra 50,000 miles on the finished engine. Rich intends to keep this car for a long long time so it\'s all about longevity and ultimate reliability. He knew it wasnt going to be a cheap project from the start, and I think he wants to do it to the best possible standards, his engine ancillary shopping list comes to something like £9,000!
Plus if he buys all new parts he said I can have one of the housings for a door stop! :D
Dude, end plates go forever pretty much.
I had no noticeable wear whatsoever on most of my end plates that have done 75k, the most i measured was 0.01mm of wear which is still well within mazda tolerances.
The housings, fair enough - i always replace those. But the end plates - seriously, if they arent warped or overly worn (which they wont be with anything less than 150k on them) then use them.
its not the wear on the face of the plate, its the corrosion of the part between the water jacket and the water seal groove, the car must have not been fed the right things in the past so all the jacket edges are thinning out, some quite badly. There are no actual breaks in the edges but some pretty scrappy sections, so it would only be a matter of time before they went.
:)
Yeah thats right dan, its up to you really if you want to use it.
The only part really to worry about is the front plate at about 5 oclock when looking at the surface of the plate. Theres a thin wall there where mazda did dodgy castings, and without using distilled water it tends to rot away even more.
If you can scrape the crap out of it without it breaking and you always use distilled water you neednt worry about it going again.
Thank you very much for the info Bobfish it is appreciated as you do have a lot more experience than me at this, so I\'m taking it all on board and mulling over several options.
I think if I had to fork out for the plates I might well clean them up and try and flatten out and repair the water seals which are just really pitted from corrosion on the edges, however since my parents don\'t want my car sat on their drive for the next year or so while I save they\'ve said that they\'ll loan me as much as I need to get it moving again. :D
So I\'m going to try and be slightly sensible and borrow about £6k from them and do all the ancillary bits that need upgrading before a big single goes in. (Fuel system, ECU, clutch, flywheel and exhaust as well as the rebuild.)
At the moment I\'m cleaning everything up including the dead bits, as I\'m going to practice porting on them, so I\'ll be scrounging any free porting templates that people want to part with very shortly. :Giggle :WaveBye
Bobfish I\'ll post some pics up of the corrosion on the water seals, because I\'d like to know if they could still be used as they are or with a little work, as I wouldn\'t mind putting together a second engine with "Experimental" porting in it, very ambitious I know. :D
Right where to start after all these months...
Have been doing a little here and there leading up to and over Christmas, but was far to busy to get anything substantial done.
Still planning on having it done by end of April with any luck. :2eek
So quick update. I\'ve been working on doing some test ports and also getting all the plastics out of the interior and preparing them for respraying...
Firstly porting...
This is DanDan having a go on the air dremel. :D
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Danhavingagoatporting.jpg?t=1170341290)
This is the finished primary street port although it could do with more polishing on the inside.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/TestStreetPort1.jpg?t=1170341194)
And on to the dash...
This is dash out.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/DashOut.jpg?t=1170341293)
This is as far as I\'ve got with sanding the dash so far.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Dashsofar.jpg?t=1170341291)
Right that\'s it at the moment I\'m sure I\'ll post a little more now that I have time to do things on my project. :D
It\'s great to see that some people have made progress over these winter months :p Porting looks cool! :D
p.s. Your garage setup looks pretty sweet!
Yeah I\'ve taken over my dad\'s shed for the project....well I say shed but it\'s better insulated than the house and has every power tool known to man...oh and 2 air compressors for some strange reason. :D
Nice! Going off topic - I\'ve been meaning to sort my garage out for ages. Paint the walls, floor, fit new lights, make a bench going around the outside etc. As ever, I\'ve been too bloody lazy :(
Quote from: dandanits not the wear on the face of the plate, its the corrosion of the part between the water jacket and the water seal groove, the car must have not been fed the right things in the past so all the jacket edges are thinning out, some quite badly. There are no actual breaks in the edges but some pretty scrappy sections, so it would only be a matter of time before they went.
:)
You do know this Piting is easly Fixed don\'t you? I\'ve done it more than once you get a old apex seal and Grind it down until it fits snugly in the Groove, clean the groove up well and make sure its Dry and clean then put some Liquid Metal in the Pits and smooth it out with the Ground down seal, Let it go hard and rub it flat/remove excess with some 240 grade paper and your done.
If you can even build thin edges up with the stuff without problems, i presure test my engines before they go back in and not had a problem yet with a water seal Weeping.
Rotor housing yes i can understand how they get scratched and Scored but Plates? i\'m with Bobfish on this they go for along time unless they Fail or you run it with no oil even if there worn you can get them brought back to Tolarance.
Well it\'s totally up to Rich I suppose, it\'s not my money buying the new kit, but new plates would be all clean and shiny! hahaha, always a good reason to buy new!
And I can\'t believe I got caught on camera doing some work again! but it is quite fun.
The old plates are pitted all the way around the water seal and I think it would take a lot of work to fix all 3 plates to a level I\'d be happy with. Also it\'s just another thing that could cause a problem if I get it wrong, so I\'m going to get a whole new set of plates.
Thanks for the advice though Grizzly it is very much appreciated, and it is always nice to have more than one option to go for just in case.
Also having a spare set of plates is allowing to practice porting before I have a go on my new ones and ruin them. :D
wanna sell the front plate?
It\'s not in great condition mate, I\'ll take some photos tomorrow and you can let me know if you still want it.
Quote from: StormBleederThe old plates are pitted all the way around the water seal and I think it would take a lot of work to fix all 3 plates to a level I\'d be happy with. Also it\'s just another thing that could cause a problem if I get it wrong, so I\'m going to get a whole new set of plates.
Thanks for the advice though Grizzly it is very much appreciated, and it is always nice to have more than one option to go for just in case.
Also having a spare set of plates is allowing to practice porting before I have a go on my new ones and ruin them. :D
Fair enough, Some times better to use new plates if its your first rebuild (don\'t need checking)
Quote from: GrizzlyFair enough, Some times better to use new plates if its your first rebuild (don\'t need checking)
My thoughts exactly, less to worry about.
AC removed, well, up to the bulkhead anyway. any tips for getting to the heater box thingy under the dash to pull the remains of the AC out and remove the pipes through the bulkhead?
Oh, rads removed too. :)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone4.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone3.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone2.jpg)
Just a quick update...
Firstly thanks to DanDan for updating my thread for me....I\'m just so lazy. :D
Ok well I had quite a productive weekend, I\'ve got the rest of the air con out from under the dash. It looks really complicated and awkward to get at it, but it\'s just 2 10mm bolts, thanks to efiniste for that little gem helped me out a lot! :Thumbsup!
Removed the Knightsports ecu, Knightsports III boost controller and rewired the audio cables as it appeared that the last person to fit the stereo decided to butcher them.
I also removed my little half spoiler that I have and found when I turned it upside down that it\'s made by Feed....so that will be for sale shortly. :D
Oh and I continued on with my stripping bits of the dash ready for painting, which has turned into more of a side project at the moment. :Hammer
I\'ll try and get some pics of it all up soon.
thousand words and all that:
Tiny tiny spoiler. (I will refrain from saying what I think of this spoiler, there is a swear filter after all)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/17032007137.jpg)
Gubbins:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/17032007136.jpg)
Hi everyone, Been a loooong time since this thread was updated, but if you are interested you can see the whole of the last year in words and pics over here:
http://www.sxoc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=244980 (dont think you need to be a member to view this thread)
But as we have finally got her started and I know how much people like a nice video, here are a couple of links, little vids of (1) the first turnover, (2) idling from cold and (3) a tiny blip as heard from the exhaust respectively. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEhxRT_GTRA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVQGsyVmL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_SofelBTeY