Got off the phone to Pip a bit earlier and he told me what happened to my car…
Apparently, one of the injectors on the front rotor decided to stop injecting - resulting in a buggered apex seal! Rotor and housing damaged beyond repair :( Apparently about 1 in 5 of this type of injector packs up at sometime in their life â€"he said that he will no longer sell them. I’ll check the make of them with him and post it just so people can be aware (if you aren’t already :p)
So a new rotor, rotor housing and uprated bosch injectors will be going on in addition to some porting work and depending on my bank balance water injection.
Cheers again for the help and support provided when it went pop â€" hopefully I’ll be able to make it to one of the next MRC meets.
Best bit is, it can be ready as soon as this weekend :D
Every event has a bright side! :)
Chris
Was it primary or secondary injector? If secondary, what size?
Not sure which one - but the car has 1300 secondry injectors. Duty would go to about 85% i think
you could find out a bit more about these injectors please? It\'s just that I have a set of \'uprated\' secondaries, which are basically bored out standard set, and i have heard horror stories about them. Although think they might be 1200cc - so would appreciate findout out more about yours, as they might have been the same type.
aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh the RC 1300\'s secondaries which are rebored 850s, yep it is a common problem with them they reach a certain Injector duty and are forced closed.
Glad you found the cause
Nikp - Yea will do. Need to phone Pip today/tomorrow to confirm if I\'m getting water injection done now or at a later date so I\'ll double check then.
Blitzboy - sounds about right. I am glad I\'ve got to the root of the problem. Getting some nice new bosch ones put in so shouldnt be a problem anymore.
Yep get that WI fitted one of the best mods you can do on a turbo Rotary
Is it worth getting it done now, or waiting til the engine has been broken in?
Cheers
how much to get it done(unless you can do it yourself)
and whats the benifits on it?
Its all about how much you wana spend???if i had the funds available then i would get it done now by a pro while they put every thing back together but you can get it done afterwards...just before the remap...and then happy days again...:burnout
yeah get it done now as the engine is out easier for them to fit it
Thanks - looks like I\'ll get it done now.
One thing though - I\'m not getting it so I can run higher boost...well not yet. Its going to provide me with peace of mind, and as a safety barrier.
Perhaps in time... I\'ll increase the boost :p
yep its a very good safety barrier in case you get a lean condition it will save the motor
those injectors are a bastard. They are really popular because they are a straight replacement, no new fuel rail etc, judt frop em in. IIRC it was a certain batch of them that went screwy -- There was a world of hurt over them over on RX7club
Quote from: BlitzBoyaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh the RC 1300\'s secondaries which are rebored 850s, yep it is a common problem with them they reach a certain Injector duty and are forced closed.
Glad you found the cause
Funnily enough we were talking about this at the Dartford pub meet last night. Clive won\'t supply 1300s any more as there have been too many failures.
Makes me glad to have the 1600\'s in place :)
Quote from: iaintFunnily enough we were talking about this at the Dartford pub meet last night. Clive won\'t supply 1300s any more as there have been too many failures.
Makes me glad to have the 1600\'s in place :)
Same as Pip - he refuses to sell them now. Might be worth someone that knows what they are talking about making a post in the FAQ section saying what the problem is and that it should be looked at.
I know Pip has had a few cars returned and all work done under the warrenty. So there may be people using these without realising the \'possible risks\'
Cost is just over £4k which include him matching the street port on the new housing, the bosch injectors and the WI. He wasnt 100% on the price of the WI but said its not going to cost me over £400 for the aquamist kit.
Going up to get the car on Sunday now - cant wait :) Its gona be hard to rack the miles up in this crappy welsh weather :(
Quote from: TwistedHumourHe wasnt 100% on the price of the WI but said its not going to cost me over £400 for the aquamist kit.
Seems like a damn good price although I\'d guess it\'s for a very basic system?
When you get in to systems that integrate with your ECU (to provide load/boost/rev WI duty control) and have fault management (empty tank, injector failure, etc) it gets a tad more expensive.
I\'m going to look into something that provided fault protection and rpm/boost duty control having lost a tip on Sunday.
No clue if it was caused by running lean but extra safety is always a good idea!!!
Like I said - I dont want the mapping to take the WI into consideration. It\'s just a safety measure for peace of mind....
...for now :evillaugh
Quote from: iaintFunnily enough we were talking about this at the Dartford pub meet last night. Clive won\'t supply 1300s any more as there have been too many failures.
Makes me glad to have the 1600\'s in place :)
As Iain says, we won\'t supply them because apparently with some of these bored out stock injectors the walls get too thin resulting in overheating and sticking and then a dead engine to go with it.
Just to clarify, I think we only supplied one set around two years ago and the guy never had a problem, however reports stated coming from more than one source around that time so we stopped selling them.
Surprised this info has taken so long to get around and would even say if you have these fitted get them out and fit 1600\'s or if you can\'t afford those get 850\'s in your primary\'s and get a remap but check first that your Turbo is small enough to support the 850 option
That guy did have a problem it blew his engine. When sending the injectors to Pip to clean and flow test when rebuilding the engine he advised that the injectors stuck closed at a certain pressure and or duty cycle. He said a few years back that he was suing rc eng and he will no longer sell them as it has cost him a few engines also. I started a thread on this a few years ago, it should of been made a sticky. Some people didn\'t pay attention to what I was saying because they had 1200cc or 1300 injectors that didn\'t cause a problem so they stuck with them. Unfortunately these engines are still popping due to these injectors. You will get more flow from 850cc injectors all round and upgraded fuel pump wiring than running 2 x 1300cc and 2 x 550cc
Just for the record... stock injectors don\'t usually suffer from this... right?
Quote from: ds2000Just for the record... stock injectors don\'t usually suffer from this... right?
nope,
RC engineering rebore the stock injectors to 1300CC. It\'s this process that can cause them to fail. I was chatting to Pip about a year and a half ago about these and he was having to rebuild a few engines under warranty because the injectors had blown the engine. At the time RC were refusing to take any responsibility and had several law suits against them in the states and a couple over here.
Quote from: rotaryimports.comYou will get more flow from 850cc injectors all round and upgraded fuel pump wiring than running 2 x 1300cc and 2 x 550cc
Technically you\'d get 300cc/min less flow from 850\'s all round (3400cc) compared to 1300s and 550s (3700cc) BUT you\'re bang on that it\'s better to do that than lose an engine!!!
I prefer to keep the primaries as 550s though as it helps idel/low rpm smoothness with 1600s in the secondaries but there is more cost to that.
So - there\'s possible cause for concern over 1300 secondaries - but i am on the understanding that mine are 1200. So what\'s the deal with them? Is that incorrect? Are they actualyl 1300? Or are they just bored out slightly smaller? If so, surely it\'s slightly safer?
Quote from: iaintTechnically you\'d get 300cc/min less flow from 850\'s all round (3400cc) compared to 1300s and 550s (3700cc) BUT you\'re bang on that it\'s better to do that than lose an engine!!!
I prefer to keep the primaries as 550s though as it helps idel/low rpm smoothness with 1600s in the secondaries but there is more cost to that.
You missed a bit.
you get more flow with 4 x 850 and upgraded fuel pump wiring. The wiring makes a big difference.
Pips suggestion to me was keep the 550 primaries and go for the bosch 1600 secondaries. Car already has uprated fuel pump which will run fine.
I think he said the injectors were £300 or £400, something like that anyway.
Quote from: rotaryimports.comYou missed a bit.
you get more flow with 4 x 850 and upgraded fuel pump wiring. The wiring makes a big difference.
Not sure what I missed Brian?
4 * 850 = 3400
2 * 550 + 2 * 1300 = 3700
3700 > 3400
Surely you\'d upgrade the fuel pump and wiring whatever else you\'re going to do to the injectors so that side is irrelevant! Assuming your fuel pump/system is capable of pushing the injectors to 100% then it\'s all about cc/min.
Actually, that\'s quite scary.
My fuelling is capable of 4300cc/min.
At 1.0bar boost I\'m seeing ~67% duty, call it 70% for simplicity...
4300 * 70% = 3010cc.
1 Litre = 1000cc. So 1 minute at full boost would use 3 litres of V-Power!!!
Ouch.
Quote from: iaintNot sure what I missed Brian?
4 * 850 = 3400
2 * 550 + 2 * 1300 = 3700
3700 > 3400
Surely you\'d upgrade the fuel pump and wiring whatever else you\'re going to do to the injectors so that side is irrelevant! Assuming your fuel pump/system is capable of pushing the injectors to 100% then it\'s all about cc/min.
Actually, that\'s quite scary.
My fuelling is capable of 4300cc/min.
At 1.0bar boost I\'m seeing ~67% duty, call it 70% for simplicity...
4300 * 70% = 3010cc.
1 Litre = 1000cc. So 1 minute at full boost would use 3 litres of V-Power!!!
Ouch.
If wiring for fuel pump is done well, it can mean the difference between running 1.0 bar or 1.4 bar. i think you\'ll find most people have stock wiring to whatever pump it is their running.
Quote from: rotaryimports.comIf wiring for fuel pump is done well, it can mean the difference between running 1.0 bar or 1.4 bar. i think you\'ll find most people have stock wiring to whatever pump it is their running.
Makes a lot of sense - the car\'s wiring seems to be the bare minimum to cope with the stock components so a bigger pump drawing more current would certainly have the potential to be cramped by stock wiring.
Has the wiring issue been dealt with on another post then?
What is required and where do you take the supply from please. Seems a cheap cost effective mod with no down side.
Keith