Mazda Rotary Club

I collected up my newly purchased 1990 Turbo 2 Convertible yesterday and drove it home.

All was well for the first 30/40 minutes driving then it was missing dreadfully for the rest of the three hour journey. I have a stiff neck today following my nodding dog impression.

Now I know that this could be anything from dirt in the fuel lines upwards but I thought I would ask if there were anything common with RX7s which cause this symptom.

(Waits in suspense for someone to say \'it needs an engine rebuild\'.)

Background: It\'s only done 65K over 16 years and has already had one replacement engine from Hurley Engineering in 1998 at around 40/45K.

Recent years it has been a summer weekends only car then not used at all for the last 12 months.

All suggestions greatfully received.

Sounds like a fuelling/ignition problem rather than a death nell for the engine.
Check your earthing points in the engine bay and near the ECU (passengers foot well) then check the leads and plugs.

have you put some new fuel in it ?

check the plugs and wires

check earths

check air filter

just give it a quick look over - does everything seem in place ?

Stu

Right, I checked plug leads on the road yesterday and have had a look at the plugs today. Plugs don\'t look brilliant and there may be a cracked insulator so they are at the top of the shopping list. I\'ll also be getting air and fuel filters.

Will look at earths on next visit to the car.

Thanks for the replies, I\'ll keep you posted.

PS - Fuel - Yes, that occurred to me yesterday, ran it down and filled up, no difference.

Does it do it all the time (idle too)

If so, take your EGI fues out and the Top rear plug and turn it over (listen to the noise it makes)

Now replace thet Plug and remove the Front top Spark Plug and turn it over, They should sound the same (Same Volume and Spacing)

Not to sound like the voice of Doom but you want to Make sure the Compression is good before you look for faults.

If thats good You want to Sevice it well, New Plugs leads Filters etc still no joy Check out the Coil packs etc. Could even be a Loose plug.

When it started doing the Missing thing how where you driving it?

Fast
Slow
Motorway Crusing or Built up area?
Lots of Throttle or Not alot?

Also has the car been stood or had any work on recently.

Grizzly said: Does it do it all the time (idle too)?

No, not on idle, only when driving.

Is that bad?

The Big question is What does it sound like on Idle???

Does it sound like a Lawn mower? and is one set of Plugs (Front or Rear) realy wet and the others Dry?

Quote from: rupertbearGrizzly said: Does it do it all the time (idle too)?

No, not on idle, only when driving.

Is that bad?

Ok, so is it smooth on idle and about 750 or a little higher?

does the engine shake or is it smooth,

I have to say if it was me.

First i would Compression test it.

I had just collected it,  60 on A roads, generally starting to use the acceleration as I got used to it, a few bursts up to perhaps 90. It was after that the missing started.

Car has been standing for about a year, previous owner took it out for an MOT last week.

Quote from: rupertbearGrizzly said: Does it do it all the time (idle too)?

No, not on idle, only when driving.

Is that bad?

When you loose an Apex seal or blow your Motor it will miss Badly all the Time Including Idle.

Rotarys that loose compression on one of the two rotors usaly sound like a Lawn mower on Idle and are quite hard to start.

They will do things like Drink masive amounts of Fuel.
Pop and bang and genraly not like running.

But there is a fool proof way to determin if you have a bad motor by doing this-

take your EGI fues out and the Top rear plug and turn it over (listen to the noise it makes)

Now replace thet Plug and remove the Front top Spark Plug and turn it over, They should sound the same (Same Volume and Spacing)

If an Apex has Gone it will Make a Pshhh noise then a long delay then another  , if its gone Bad it just won\'t make any Noise. A good Rotor will have even loud Pssh noises quite close together and the Front and rear should sound fairly simalar.

Do this test ^ and Come back and tell us how you got on.

Lots to investigate, thanks for all the input.

I\'ll be back!

Urm would you know a Guy called Steve Byrn (Not sure if thats spelt right??)

Have you had any Luck getting it going?

I have replaced air filter, plugs and HT leads (which took some getting). No improvement so it\'s booked into my local performance friendly garage on Friday for an investigation.

Thanks for asking!

I\'ve got a list of questions which I\'ll be back with once the car is on the road again.

Would that be PH Automotive? Or WGT?

If you get stuck i don\'t live too far away. (Macc)

Quote from: GrizzlyIf you get stuck i don\'t live too far away. (Macc)

Thanks, appreciated!

First, the good news: Compression tested OK (phew).

Some questions:

I\'m sure I\'ve read somewhere here that it\'s fine to run T spec plugs throughout, rather than L and T as specified. Is this true? What\'s the difference?

Don\'t laugh, but just for reassurance, which plug lead goes where?

I gave the mechanic who is looking at the car for me a copy of the workshop manual which I found on the web. He says it refers to Rotor 1 and Rotor 2 but cannot find a statement of which is which. Common sense might suggest that the front rotor was number one, but does anyone know for sure?

I\'m sure I have read somewhere of inbuilt diagnostics that use the dash display rather than an external unit, but cannot now find it. Have I imagined this or can anyone point me to the information I need?

Thanks

Did he give you the 6 Comp readings? Oviously if 1 seal has gone a std Comp tester will still get a Reading this is why you usaly have to take it to some where with a Mazda Comp tester. You should get a result like 6.2-6.3-6.0 and 6.1-6.1-6.2, if you have a normal Comp tester you will not get an Acurate Reading. Thats why i asked where you where taking it.

Plug wise, It does\'nt make alot of diffrence which Plug you put in Leading or Trailing (the lower the number usaly means it works better at lower temp i.e. it will satart easyer with 7\'ns in but 9\'s will be better on the open road)

I used to use 9\'s all round in my T2

This may sound daft but Rotor 1 is usaly the rear Rotor, this is becouse of the way it\'s put together. But if you mean in Plug lead terms L1 and T1 is the Front Rotor.

When you took the plugs out where the pair in one rotor Wet and the other dry?  Also Does it Miss all the time all the way through the Rev range when you drive it?

Also a presume it\'s a manual?

Quote from: GrizzlyDid he give you the 6 Comp readings?

The technician I took it to (who I have used for some time) doesn\'t know rotaries but he works on performance cars all the time. I didn\'t get the numbers but there were six separate near equal readings within the OK range shown in the workshop manual.

The missing has got much worse and both he and I are fairly sure that the problem is fuel starvation. His (my) problem at the moment is in accessing any error codes.

You would be suprised how many Garages don\'t know how to check the Compression on a Rotary (You need a Tool from mazda thats like 1k to do it Properly) Anyway if thats ok.

The rotary is a bit strange when it comes to Ignion/Fueling The Electrical system is Split so there is Two coils so Say a Coil going down will only bring on a Miss fire at a set rpm this also happens with the Fuel system, there is a Primary and secondry Injector if for example the primary is not working or is not working properly it should run over 4k but Miss low down.

The fact its Happening all the way whould sugest some thing like the fuel pump or some thing like that, Maybe timing??

Did you find one rotors plugs wet and the Others Dry when you changed them? It could be overfueling rather then Under. How easy does it Start?

check the sticky to see which was the leads go :D

i think i would follow what chris says - he really knows his stuff ( although he hasnt come up with a solution to my probs :D :D )

Stu

This may be a daft suggestion but check the fuel filter - I\'ve seen similar behaviour on a (non-rotary) engine with a clogged filter.

Quote from: grinder( although he hasnt come up with a solution to my probs :D :D )

Stu

Your Problem is unique :yes

Quote from: GrizzlyYour Problem is unique :yes

i hope you are refering to the car :D

LOL :Giggle

Success at last! I have done some 120 grinning miles this afternoon in my Turbo 2 convertible.

The problem was the Throttle Position Sensor. The delay in diagnosis was caused by confusion over model history. Perhaps someone can help clear this up?

My car was registered as new at first registration in the UK on 1st August 1990. I downloaded the workshop manual for 1989-1991 cars and gave it to the technician who has been working on it. He was attempting to read fault codes - he knows his stuff and has a lot of excellent kit for this kind of work.

He couldn\'t get anywhere, though. To cut a long story short, after much head scratching light dawned and I found for him the 1986-1989 manual and fault code info. He was then able to diagnose the problem.

I rang the local Mazda dealer and gave them the VIN and they say that the car was built on 1st September 1989.

It seems that all the information I have been finding on the web, including the workshop manuals, is American. Did we have the same model changes in the UK as they did?

best way to check is

1 - what front bumper is on the car
2 - where is the coolant filler point

have a look on //www.fc3s.co.uk and have a look at the white cab - does it look the same as that

if so then its a S4 which means its 1986-1989

the S5 has twin TPS where as the S4 only has one ( i think ) - the S5 has side skirts the S4 didnt

posting up some pics would help us lot out a lot more

stu

Thanks for the reply. Here\'s a pic the last owner used on Ebay. I\'ll get back to you on the coolant filler, the fault code connector is the one shown in the (American?) 86-88 workshop manual.

hummm well i would lay money that its an S5

you can tell from the front bumper

i have the same one and been really struggling to get any fault codes from it :(

stu

right then - im confused

1 - it has the S5 front bumper
2 - its a H reg - that makes it an S5
3 - just been and looked at mine - and mine has side skirts on it
4 - under the TurboII sticker - is the rubbing strip attached to a panel that looks like you could take it off ??
5 - are your cills plastic or metal ( mine are plastic that clip on )
6 - is the car US/Jap/AUS/UK ?

thanks

stu

Quote from: grinderi have the same one and been really struggling to get any fault codes from it :(

stu

This URL

http://tinyurl.com/y2yg5n (http://tinyurl.com/y2yg5n)

shows the diagnostic connector on my car, together with instructions on how to get the codes out with a couple of LEDs. It was this info which got my guy onto the right track - although he used his super kit rather than the LEDs!

i tried that and got no where

right then just been out to look at mine

( have a look at the pic )

where the yellow circle is - does it look like you can remove this entire panel - or just the rubbing strip ??

Stu

If its a UK car then it will be an S5 :)

Quote from: rupertbearSuccess at last! I have done some 120 grinning miles this afternoon in my Turbo 2 convertible.

The problem was the Throttle Position Sensor. The delay in diagnosis was caused by confusion over model history. Perhaps someone can help clear this up?

My car was registered as new at first registration in the UK on 1st August 1990. I downloaded the workshop manual for 1989-1991 cars and gave it to the technician who has been working on it. He was attempting to read fault codes - he knows his stuff and has a lot of excellent kit for this kind of work.

He couldn\'t get anywhere, though. To cut a long story short, after much head scratching light dawned and I found for him the 1986-1989 manual and fault code info. He was then able to diagnose the problem.

I rang the local Mazda dealer and gave them the VIN and they say that the car was built on 1st September 1989.

It seems that all the information I have been finding on the web, including the workshop manuals, is American. Did we have the same model changes in the UK as they did?

Good to hear you got it going ok.

I\'ve never heard the TPS to cause a Fault like yours? did you have to replace it? or was it loose?

BTW that is exactly the same as my old T2 vert.

not seen that for a while chris

pity it went to the big garage in the sky

Yep the Rust Bug came and took it away :(

But i replaced it with something else with 100% NO rust ;)

first time i have seen that :D

when do i get to see it in the flesh ??

All in good time ;)

Quote from: GrizzlyAll in good time ;)

i was expecting that to be honest :D

It just don\'t run nice and Drinks fuel like the QE2 at the moment until its run in then i can get a Proper map.

Its Changed alot since i bought it and i only have pics from the previous Owner :(

looks a nice motor though matey :D

and ruperbear - sorry about the hijack

Quote from: GrizzlyBTW that is exactly the same as my old T2 vert.

What happened to it? Have you got a shedful of useful bits? :)

Quote from: grinderruperbear - sorry about the hijack

No problem

Quote from: rupertbearWhat happened to it? Have you got a shedful of useful bits? :)

Unfortunatly i don\'t have the space so i lost alot of stuff i wish i had kept :(

i wish he had kept them aswell :(