Hiya chaps
got the car home ( again thanks to Kev )
put the battery on charge and this is where the probs begin
1 - battery been on charge for 24 hrs ( min )
2 - put the key in the ignition , turn all the dash lights on
3 - its beeps (2 pause 2 pause 2 pause stop .. had a check on this and cant find much )
4 - and there are loads of selanoids clicking
5 - turn the car off
6 - selanoids still click but once the turbo timer hits 0 they stop
7 - turn ignition back on
8 - clicking starts again
9 - turn off and switch off turbo timer
10 - turn it back on - loads of clicking
11 - crank car - its very slow at this and wont fire - but the clicking stops
12 - try this a few times and its points 10 and 11 all the time
13 - started to remove the plugs - they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO wet - so defo flooded :(
so any one got any ideas ??
and the plugs - what a pain to remove - got the back out no probs ( although both marked 9EQ T - so both trailing ones ??? )
need to get the fronts out next - and thats a nightmare - all the plug wires are stopping the ratchet going round
so that the state of play and only 2 main questions
1 - why are 3/4 selanoids going mad
2 - how the hell do you get the front plugs out
stumbling at the first hurdle - not impressed !! LOL :D :D :D
Stu
1 - battery been on charge for 24 hrs ( min )
2 - put the key in the ignition , turn all the dash lights on
3 - its beeps (2 pause 2 pause 2 pause stop .. had a check on this and cant find much ) this sounds like the lights on reminder buzzer
4 - and there are loads of selanoids clicking I have clicking solenoid but only before cranking engine - could be electrical short or faulty ECU
5 - turn the car off
6 - selanoids still click but once the turbo timer hits 0 they stop
7 - turn ignition back on
8 - clicking starts again
9 - turn off and switch off turbo timer
10 - turn it back on - loads of clicking
11 - crank car - its very slow at this and wont fire - but the clicking stops Not enough juice in your battery - can you jump off anothe one as well?
12 - try this a few times and its points 10 and 11 all the time
13 - started to remove the plugs - they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO wet - so defo flooded :(
Now you have to do the unflood - remove bottom plugs, remove EGI fuse and crank the engne over a few dozen times - not smoking near engine bay, as raw fuel will slosh out of plug holes - then clean up plugs, squirt of some oil into the plug hole to lube the now fuel cleaned rotor housings, and put everything back.
I wouldn\'t try starting it again until you do the following:
1) Charge or replace the battery - I think your one is toast :( - voltage should be about 12-13V if it\'s healthy - lower than 11 and it\'s naff
2) Take the carpet up - unplug the ECU and plug it back in again to reseat the connectors
Sounds like you need a new battery, or you left a earth wire off the battery,
Mick
1 - battery is 2 weeks old - so should be ok
2 - clicking stops once you crank it
3 - battery voltage looks OK - its showing 12v on the Turbo timer - but bouces around with the selanoids clicking
4 - the beeping - humm could be the lights - but then again the switch doesnt work - so that could be a cause - have a spare switch in the garage - i could always unplug it as the dash is out anyways
5 - hummm reset the ECU - there is a way to do this - just not sure how ?
6 - cant jump the car as its nose in the drive and the first car on there - unless you can get 15ft jump leads !! LOL - might borrow one of them jump start battery things - chappy at work has one
7 - gonna be arkward to do the ECU bit - need to push the car onto the front of the drive really - sounds like weekend work :D :D
the plugs are SOOOOOOOOOO arkward to get out - like i said got the back 2 out and the are drenched in fuel - just need to get the fronts out
what oil can i squirt in - just normal engine oil ... does it need a lot ??
humm looks like i will be playing again tonight with it
once it runs - i can then have a real good look round it to see what else needs doing :D
keep up the good idea\'s though - they are all welcomed :D :D
Stu
ECU will reset as soon as the battery is taken off. Just leave it disconnected for more than about 10 secs and the jobs done.
Oil - I just squirt a bit of standard mineral in there. You don\'t need much, it\'s just there to replace the oil that the petrol will have washed away when it was flooded. When I did mine once, there was about 1/2 pt of petrol in the engine - went everywhere. Once you put the oil in, turn the engine 120 degrees - 1/3 rd round and repeat that again twice - that will oil up each chamber - then you\'re ready to try starting it again.
Really does sound like you have an earthing problem or electrical short. I have a spare TII ecu if you need one.
The beeping wouldn\'t be a seatbelt warning beeper as on an FD??
the beeping could be - didnt think of that ?!??!
prof - how did you turn the engine 1/3 ?? i cant even turn this one over ( when i had the white one - you could turn the engine by pulling on the power steering belt - with this one - not a cat in hells chance )
hummmm i will try and stop thinking the worse at this point !! LOL
Stu
I moved it with the pulleys - if your\'s doesn\'t move then that might explain why it\'s cranking so slowly - it must be hellish tight somewhere or in need of lube.
It should crank pretty fast on the starter - if it doesn\'t, maybe the bearings have gone all sticky - how long was it sat ?
I also have a spare ECU but mine (and I suspect Prof\'s) is a series V not series IV?
The front plugs are a pig to get out, you need to muve as much as you can out of way then just patience! I use a 1/2 inch drive with a plug socket as it is slightly slimmer than a normal plug spanner, but you can still only get about 1/8 of a turn each time so it is just a long process, putting the buggers back in is equally awkward! Once you get used to it it isn\'t so bad. Also when you\'ve got shot of the air pump and the TMIC it is a lot easier!
I\'d take a second battery out of another car and use that as a way of jumping so then you have two batteries running in tandem. Sounds like you may have a short somewhere though if you have full charge in the battery and still aren\'t getting the engine to crank over at speed (but it could be jus VERY flooded!
When you turn the engine over w/out the plugs in remember to take out the fuse for the EGI or you\'ll just empty the fuel tank all over the drive!
Quote from: ProfI moved it with the pulleys - if your\'s doesn\'t move then that might explain why it\'s cranking so slowly - it must be hellish tight somewhere or in need of lube.
It should crank pretty fast on the starter - if it doesn\'t, maybe the bearings have gone all sticky - how long was it sat ?
I thought that, may just need some lube as Prof said, on the 12a in the Gen 1 we had to use gearbox oil to get the rotors spinning freely (heavier than normal engine oil) smokes like an absolute Beagle but did the trick.:Hammer
QuoteI also have a spare ECU but mine (and I suspect Prof\'s) is a series V not series IV?
Ignore me, I\'m getting my threads mixed up which tends to destroy any good fashion statement :Thumbsup!
nice one mark !!! - you should go back to bed !!
once the plugs are out - i will get some oil in there - just to lube it up slightly
this could be the reason for slow cranking
i was told that it was started 6 weeks ago ish and it ran fine
suddenly it wont and there is lots of clicking ??
so - its been stood for 6 weeks - i have left mine longer than this with no probs
if it wasnt started - then it might have been sat for 12 months :(
need to get the plugs out and some oil in - and then trace the relay situation
fun times ahead NOT - i should really start buying cars that start before handing over money !! ha ha ha
stu
Arh - come on - you got a bargain and you know it - just needs a bit of work and some TLC.
Just hang in there - it\'ll be worth it once it\'s going.
Oh - and just to give you incentive - some parts arived today - top hose thermostat, and most of my new Inlet ducting for replacement of that crazy 90/90 bendy thing.
ohhhhh inlet ducting - very nice - again matey - lots of write ups and pics :D
the car - gonna get the plugs out tonight and try and work out what is clicking and where - then ask lots of questions on here :D
Stu
am awake now!
good luck with that one! If it has been stood flooded for 6 weeks, the oil will have been cleaned off the rotors and seals making it more difficult to turn without the lube. Well it\'s a theory - but I think it\'s a sound one!
your now thinking like i am matey
so NO idea how to fix this problem !! LOL
just spotted your sig - your going V-Mount - ooohhh sexy :D - and 4*1000 - wow they are big - what are you running now 4*550\'s ??
Stu
the tiny amount of lube that would normall be injected into the chambers shouldnt make a difference to the tightness of the engine.
I think you just need to unflood it, use a blow torch or your gas cooker on the end of the plugs to ensure all the fuel is completely gone.
Turn the engine over with your egi fuse out and dont smoke as you will get clouds of fuel vapour so make sure your HT leads are taped up and away from any earth.
Its an import, they all beep when you first put the key in the ignition.
All turbo 2\'s have clicky solanoids, turn the turbo timer off and get a good battery on it.
Quote from: grinderyour now thinking like i am matey
so NO idea how to fix this problem !! LOL
just spotted your sig - your going V-Mount - ooohhh sexy :D - and 4*1000 - wow they are big - what are you running now 4*550\'s ??
Stu
the V-mount is dependent on if Matt can fit a 600x300x100 IC in the V mount position, otherwise we may look at Antnicuk\'s "under engine" mounted idea
Yes the 4x1000cc will be a bit of an increase, but necessary in the quest for power, Chris can\'t be the only FC-er with over 500bhp on tap for too long!
Also while at Tim\'s over the weekend, we got talking and came to the conclusion that we didn\'t know of any PP\'d engines around the UK so maybe Tim should consider doing one :Thumbsup! Mine was Tim\'s first Bridgeport, so maybe I should also have Tim\'s first Peripheral Port! :eek Well that is a project for next winter after the 2007 season.:bandit
Geez PP - Mark you want to buy a petrol station and live in mate !:yes :guinness
Can\'t wait to see your beast out and about in Reading.:yes
its all good reading this - must remember not to have a fag in the mouth when i crank the engine .. must remember this !! LOL
the plan now is
1 - remove plug leads
2 - remove plugs
3 - remove EGI fuse and crank engine ( leave fags in house )
4 - dry plugs using the rings on the oven
5 - leave to cool for a while
6 - inject some oil in lower plug holes
7 - put some new fuel in it - it might help ??
8 - rebuild , pray and get someone else to start it so that i can blame them :D :D
Stu
Quote from: ProfGeez PP - Mark you want to buy a petrol station and live in mate !:yes :guinness
Can\'t wait to see your beast out and about in Reading.:yes
well the PP is a way off yet, but nice idea! Fuel consumption can\'t be as bad as I was getting with the BP and stock ECU (9mpg on average!):2eek
Quote7 - put some new fuel in it - it might help ??
certainly couldn\'t do any harm
got a gallon to go in - i hope its enough to up the octane rating
its just annoying now - sat at work - where as i should be at home working on the car
once i hear her fire up and run i will be a happy bunny :D
Stu
carls 4 rotor is PP and so is carls 13b first gen that was at RS this year.
They just make the most awful racket.......
and they will make 9mpg seem good.
Hello Stu
It was definitely running 6-7 weeks ago now. It was ticking over fine, When I put my foot down on the accelerator it revved a little then cut out.
I tried to start it again but I think I flooded it.
It is definitely a brand new battery.
If you read on the Turbo timer manual you will be able to press one of the buttons so that you dont need to wait for the countdown to finish.
Im sure it will run.
Ps there was no petrol in it when you left here I had only just put a gallon in. BP Ultimate. Maybe fuel filter is blocked as was taking fuel from bottom of the tank...
Quote from: antnicukcarls 4 rotor is PP and so is carls 13b first gen that was at RS this year.
They just make the most awful racket.......
and they will make 9mpg seem good.
Of course, forgot about the 4 rotor!
Haven\'t seen his 1st gen, didn\'t realise it was PP\'d (but would make sense as last time I was over at Carl\'s (end of 2005) he had a pair of PP\'d housings sitting on the shelf and was very secret squirrel about where they were going!
Yes, noise may be an issue for the neighbours :flamed fuel economy isn\'t the major issue for me, but I want to see what I can get from a 13bT in all variants! Still it is all just a thought at the moment, I need to look into the realities of PPs first to see how viable it is, I do want a car which can be used on the strip and for fast road use.
Quote from: abmunroHello Stu
It was definitely running 6-7 weeks ago now. It was ticking over fine, When I put my foot down on the accelerator it revved a little then cut out.
I tried to start it again but I think I flooded it.
It is definitely a brand new battery.
If you read on the Turbo timer manual you will be able to press one of the buttons so that you dont need to wait for the countdown to finish.
Im sure it will run.
Ps there was no petrol in it when you left here I had only just put a gallon in. BP Ultimate. Maybe fuel filter is blocked as was taking fuel from bottom of the tank...
no juice - hummm so i also have a faulty fuel gauge then !! LOL
the turbo timer - if you cancel it the random clicking stops - so thats not tooo bad
you defo flooded it !! :D - the plugs are soaked - like i said - got a few things to do yet
just out of interest - when you had it running - did you have all the dash switches connected ?? - its just a thought thats all ??
ta
stu
Yes I plugged the switches in and closed the door as this was another bleeper that was sounding
cheers tony - its more thing to narrow down :D
hi Stu
if you are still strugling with the front plugs, i bought a spark plug socket that had a hex end [on the end where the the half inch drive go\'s into] and used a spanner on this.
this was the only way i could get the bottom front plug out as there was a metal tube in the way stopping me getting the half inch extension bar in straight.
good luck
just about to go out and try again !!
but makes sense what you are talking about !!
ok then - the update
1 - plugs are out ( and dying !! LOL )
2 - had to remove all the plug wire holders to do it - once i did that it was a 10 min job
3 - remove the EGI fuse
4 - got the better half to crank the car over
5 - and NO clicking of selanoids - so this is (1) is been on charge for 2 days (2) i pulled the egi fuse out ??
6 - cranked over nice and happy - and WOW how much fuel comes out - left fags in the garage - thank god !! LOL
7 - engine now turns by hand ( although very hard )
8 - now waiting till tommorrow to rebuild and fire her up
9 - gonna check with the EGI fuse back in aswell to see if all the selanoids go mad
10 - removed battery aswell - see if the ECU will reset - there is no harm in trying
will keep you all posted :D
Stu
Stick with it Stu you\'ll get there.
Kevin
im sure i will kev :D
and i know all the people on MRC are here to lend a hand :D :D
Stu
oh damn, and there was me getting all excited thinking you would get it started.....
its good to leave it with the plugs out over night, it will help with getting rid of the fuel, before you go to work in the morning, move the engine around a 3rd, so it dries some more of the chambers before you put it back together tomorrow
Stu, Auto\'s always run Rich on start up which will not help.
Can\'t you swap the plugs with your other T2? But before you do that take the plugs out and spin it over for as long as poss with the egi out.
I would not recomend putting Oil in becouse it will add a possabliity of Fouling the Plugs to the Mix.
The other thing i tend to do is put the Plugs back in hot so it dries out the Plug holes and they also stand more of a chance when the Apex goes over them and pushes the fuel into the Plug.
And also if you use Jump leads conect the earth to the Engine rather than the battery, this will help if you do have a Dodgy earth strap (Just make sure its a good conection)
Have you checked to see what kind of spark there is?
O yeh and if you do give up tonight leave the plugs out ;)
right ... :D
1 - not checked for a spark
2 - plugs are in the garage at the mo - will give them the heat treatment tomorrow - not sure about putting them in hot - that could be very arkward
3 - will try and turn it over before i go to work ( by hand )
4 - taking my plugs out the TII - dont really want to do that to be honest
5 - i cant jump the car - cant get another car near it
6 - chambers are air drying at the mo
7 - looks to be a lot of fuel in the plug hole - so hoping that will dry aswell
just out of common interest - what causes them to flood ???
is there a procedure to stop this ?
when i rebuild tomorrow - i will put it all back in - but not put the leads in the little holders just incase it wont work - if it does then i will put all back the way i found it
any more thoughts/ideas are welcomed :) :D :)
Stu
"" 1 - plugs are out ( and dying !! LOL ) ""
Sorry to hear about your plugs, we will pray for them tonight :)
I got some 30ft jump leads, gis a shout if ya wanna i`ll bring em over :0
Mick
ha ha ha now thats funny - but i wont change it as people wont understand :D :D
im hoping it will fire of it own accord - but thanks for the offer matey - i might have to take you up on it :D
Stu
"2 - plugs are in the garage at the mo - will give them the heat treatment tomorrow - not sure about putting them in hot - that could be very arkward"
You big Girl :)
"4 - taking my plugs out the TII - dont really want to do that to be honest"
Or run your other T2 on the Flooded plugs then put them back in the Vert.
"6 - chambers are air drying at the mo"
You\'d be best turning it 120 before you go to work then another bath can dry out too.
"7 - looks to be a lot of fuel in the plug hole - so hoping that will dry aswell"
There is serious amounts of fuel in there, When i took my Fd apart there was a Cup full of fuel that came out of the Exhaust port when i took the Turbo\'s off.
"just out of common interest - what causes them to flood ???"
An auto needs more fuel on Cold start to idle properly (more load on the engine) so if its turned off early/Bit low on Comp/Leaking injector or Needs a Service you\'ll flood it.
"is there a procedure to stop this ?"
Make sure its Hot and well of Cold start before you turn off, i\'ve also heard people fitting a switch to the Fuel pump so you can turn the Pump off and effectivly Run it out of Fuel before you turn off (but i don\'t like the idea of that one)
"when i rebuild tomorrow - i will put it all back in - but not put the leads in the little holders just incase it wont work - if it does then i will put all back the way i found it"
TBH i would have said toe it round the Block by now but being an Auto you can\'t.
I have heard of people Unplugging the Fuel pump and spraying Easystart into the Inlet to get it to fire (that seems to be quite common as you can leave the EGI in) That way you don\'t add more fuel each time the Bath crosses the Inlet and it should fire on whats already there.
But i\'d check the spark etc before any of this becouse this may still be a Damp conection etc causing no spark.
cheers chris :D
i turned the engine by hand this morning - so that SHOULD help
i will try and check the spark tonight aswell - that could be interesting i suppose :D :D
just out of interest ( again ) - when you de-flood it and you crank with no EGI fuse in - how long should you actually crank it for - i think i only did it twice for about 2 seconds each - is this enough - or do you need to do it for a while ( this could add another day onto the procedings if i did it wrong )
i dont think there are any compression issues as its only done 5K on a rebuild/new engine - so it should be ok
cheers chaps
stu
found a good unflooding procedure : http://www.rx7.com/tech/unflood-fc.html
although reading this - sounds like i havent cranked it for long enough and i didnt floor it either :(
2 choices now
1 - put it back together and try it
2 - crank it some more and leave it till thursday
Hummm now thats a choice
just keep finding more info D:
Rotary Engine Flooding Prevention
Any trip that is too short for the engine to reach normal operating temperature (needle in middle of temperature gauge indicates normal temperature) should follow these steps to prevent flooding of the engine.
* With the engine already running,
* Raise the engine speed to 3000 RPM for 10 seconds
* Return to idle
* Turn off engine
The above are instructions to prevent flooding as described in your Mazda Owner’s Manual. We have been using a slightly different method that does not require holding engine speed at 3000RPM for an extended period of time. Here are the instructions:
* With engine already running,
* Raise the engine speed to 3000RPM
* Holding the engine speed at 3000RPM, turn the ignition key to the “off” position,
* While simultaneously depressing the gas pedal all the way down.
* After the engine has completely wound down, release the gas pedal.
Stu,
turn it for a good 20 - 30 seconds, at least 3 - 4 times. It will be worth getting another battery to jump off.
You need to do it until you stop getting vapour out of the holes.
As chris says, i wouldnt put any oil in it.
oh thats not good - if i do that tonight - can i try and start it tonight - or will it need to dry out for another 24hrs :(
and the battery is fully charged - so it should be OK.. he says
just out of interest :
Once fuse is pulled and left out, get back inside vehicle. Hold accelerator pedal to the floor and crank for 15~20 seconds. Vehicle will not start during this procedure. Remember, it is key to this procedure that you hold the accelerator down and crank the engine at the same time.
why does this say hold the pedal down ??? - does this open the throttle bodies to allow all the fuel to be expelled thru the open plug holes ??
Stu
Yep - it allows air to enter the rotor chambers, so that the unburnt petrol can be forced out through the plug holes. Otherwise you have air trying to get in the same holes that you want the petrol coming out of.
Hope you get it going Stu.:yes :3gears-rh
Quote from: grinderoh thats not good - if i do that tonight - can i try and start it tonight - or will it need to dry out for another 24hrs :(
and the battery is fully charged - so it should be OK.. he says
I\'ve been able to start it straight after going through the unflood procedure so can\'t see any reason why you shouldn\'t have to
roll on getting home tonight then :D
oohhh i hate being at work when i should be at home getting the car going :(
When i do the EGI thing i usaly wind it over for about 10 seconds after the white smoke/Vapor stops coming out of the plug holes.
this is a great source of info guys - keep up with the ideas :D
Stu
id stick the plugs on the end of the wires and see if you can see sparks dude. then you can rule out that possibility - obvious that your getting fuel - and then its just a matter of the compression.
i hope you get it going pal! i just need motivation to finish off my project!
im pretty sure it will be running tonight :D
the compression should be fine - its only done 5K on a rebuild/new engine :D
I`d take the fuse out, crank it for 20 secs, then leave it a couple of secs, (always keeping foot down) then crank it again for 20 secs, it may even try to fire, once the petrol starts going, then bang fuse in, keep foot still down, and crank it again, make sure battery is fully charged or you on a losing battle,
hth
Mick
My FC says 69324 on the clock buts thats KM anyone convert it to MPH lol
about 40K ish
ooh thats not bad then lol
not really - could be on the orig engine with that milage - does it still count up in KMS ?
69 324 kilometers = 43 075.9365 miles
Think its the original engine, its still got a little grey jap oil filter, air filters dirty, and 2 of the plugs look like they out of a ford escort ??
Plus i mixed the leads up taking em off :( anyone know firing order :)
Mick
How would i know wat its counting in ?
You started urs yet
right mick
1 - drive a mile and see what it counts !! LOL
2 - firing order - err no idea - but will make a sticky somewhere with the plug lead layout
3 - the oil filter is tiny anyways
4 - plugs should be bur9eq
and no - not started it yet - playing resumes tonight :D
Oil filter saying japan on it, i gathered its been on a while.
My plugs are BUR 7 EQ. or should i put 9`s in it
were u get ur parts from, our local shop strugglin to find anything cos its a import
Mick
hiya matey - parts ...err WGT or Mazda :D
depends on what you want - oil filter from anywhere ( even halfords )
i think it should run 7 and 9\'s to be honest - just on the hunt for info now :D
and plug wire link : http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30007
I\'ve got 10s in the leading and 11s in the trailing :)
(but that\'s me)
7s are better if you have problems starting from cold
""1985 - 1988
Trailing ( Top ) - SD11A
Leading ( Lower ) - SD10A""
So i`ll get some 10,s 11,s
Are you crazy, took andrew pages 2hrs to find the BUR7EQ plugs and then said he could only find the 9`s, cant see any hope of em finding them lol
think i`ll just stick 4, 9`s in lol
thats what the mazda book says - and yeah im not sure about it either !!
ideally you want 7 & 9\'s failing that 9\'s alround :D
most people with stock engines will run 9\'s all round, that fine.
10 & 11\'s are only needed for higher boost, you will only run into problems if you use them on a stock engine.
As for leads, its a dodle, T= Trailing which go at the Top, L = leading or lower. 1 is the front plug, and the rear is the 2. The front plug leads will have a little white piece of tape around the end of the lead.
most people with stock engines will run 9\'s all round, that fine.
10 & 11\'s are only needed for higher boost, you will only run into problems if you use them on a stock engine.
As for leads, its a dodle, T= Trailing which go at the Top, L = leading or lower. 1 is the front plug, and the rear is the 2. The front plug leads will have a little white piece of tape around the end of the lead.
Dont give up stu, there is plenty of help around, sort that relay prob and I think you will be half way there..........Find if you can pull any codes from the ecu, anyone have the conection proceedure for this from the diagnostic\'s plug, my autodate code book is too new for that model...or any rx7\'s infact..
great jap fuse box lid :(
found a UK one on here ( will copy into the FAQ once i have chance ! ) - gonna randomly check some now :D
giving up in the next 20 mins though ... bloody thing :(
Stu
right then - gonna try and get all the info i have into this post
1 - i have tried to start the car and it still wont run
2 - remove a plug and i can confirm a spark
3 - tried it again - still wont run
4 - looks flooded AGAIN :(
5 - still have 3 selanoids going mad ( alan suggests fixing this first )
6 - noticed that the clock doesnt work on the dash
7 - radio wont work either
8 - windows work
9 - not checked the mirrors
10 - head rest speaker switch wont work either
11 - check about 10 of the internal fuses - only one dead was CIGAR - changed this - non of the above work
12 - head lights wont go up or down ( even on the maintenance switch )
13 - cruse lights up ok - cant check though !!
14 - not tried the wipers
15 - roof looks to work - it beeps when you move the switch
16 - if you remove the EGI fuse - there is no clicking noises
now im at a bit of a loss - as i dont have a clue about electrics :( ( ooohhh mick where are you !! LOL :D )
all this seems to hinge on the fact that tony had the car running , reved it and it cut out ...
the engine turns OK - so what would cause it to stop like this ??
is there any obvious things i need to check .. is there a main relay pack that does stuff ??
looks like a round selanoid on the front bar is doing a lot of the clicking - but cant figure out what it actually does ??
it looks like it hinges on point 16 to be honest - why does the EGI fuse make every thing quiet ??? what does this actually do ??
gonna go to bed soon and cry :(
Stu
one of the clicking will be the fuel pump relay and posibbly another for the injectors and another for the duty solanoid. When you say clicking like mad, do you mean constantly clicking or just click once when you turn on the
igniion.
I think its gonna be a case of systamatically going through things.
Now, it seems that that you have fuel as your plugs are getting wet, but i would check that the fuel pump is running when you are cranking, take the cover in the boot off and get someone to have a listen or better still, remover the fuel line where it joins the block just next to the oil filter. Point it somewhere safe and turn the engine over, you should have fuel gushing out.
The next thing is to check the spark. You need to put a spark plug in the end of the HT lead, touch the body of the plug to an earch, and turn the engine over again (might want to remove the egi fuse for this) you should have a nice bright blue spark, if its a dim orange, you dont have enough and may want to change the plugs.
apart from that and some really good cranking power, you should be on ya way.
Good cranking is even more important in view of the fact that its been flooded.
hiya matey
right then ....
1 - when i say clicking i mean .. "click , click , click , click , get out of car .. still clicking like mad , have a fag , yup still clicking , make a brew..still clicking " LOL you get the picture .. so yeah continously clicking ( it seems like there is one on the front bar ( a round one ) , one behind the alternator and cant work out where the other one is )
2 - if you crank the car at this point - then they stop
3 - turn car off and on - and they go mad again
4 - i think the fuel is ok and its priming OK as i can hear it
5 - spark - yeah took out plug attached it to the lead - lent it against the bonnet stay and you can see the spark from 6 foot away - so thats OK ( i think )
all the clicking stops when you take out the EGI fuse
its that bad , i phoned Alan and brett and let them listen to it :D
Stu
Stu
The stereo was working the day before you came as I removed the cd\'s from the changer on the saturday morning.
Maybe something to do with the alarm.
I hope you get it started soon as I am going to stop using this site when yo do..
I thought it would be running now
Round one is aircon relay I think - and there are more than one of them dotted about in there - so could be the aircon circuits are bad - if you can disable it from in the car, then try that.
The aircon system is defeated during cranking and for 7 seconds after starting to aid the startup, which would explain why the relays stop chattering. There should be a fuse which controls all the aircon - take that out and see if that shuts up some of the relays.
Still say u got a dodgy earth somewhere, maybe after u refitted the battery
If it aint running by thursday night, i`ll nip up friday and have a look for ya
hiya chaps
tony : yeah its getting really wierd now - esp with the radio and such like - esp that you say that it was working ?!?!?! - and i thought i would have had it running aswell ... hell i like a challenge - but one that im able to do at least :D :)
Mick : i may have to call on your service :D
Prof : Errr ok - i cant see why the air con would affect it though
could be a bad earth i suppose - wouldnt have thought it would make things this bad ??
Stu
Quote from: grinderhiya chaps
tony : yeah its getting really wierd now - esp with the radio and such like - esp that you say that it was working ?!?!?! - and i thought i would have had it running aswell ... hell i like a challenge - but one that im able to do at least :D :)
Mick : i may have to call on your service :D
Prof : Errr ok - i cant see why the air con would affect it though
could be a bad earth i suppose - wouldnt have thought it would make things this bad ??
Stu
You want to sell it and save yourself time and effort ???????????:cool :Hammer
thats the last thing on my mind to be honest
im not beaten that easily - im dying to get this thing working so that i can cruise round with the roof down :D
you`ll get it running , just as the snow comes :)
im off to bed - keep the ideas coming
if someone wants a challenge - can you find out what each relay does on the front bad - poss with pics :D
Stu
right then - bit of an update ( and its not a good one )
1 - tried to pull the error codes from the car - there is none - so thats a downer
2 - asked on the yank forum - even they are stuck - aussy one next :D
3 - took the IC off to see if we had dislodged anything - nope
4 - got a helper round - always helps
5 - the clicking is in 2 places - one near the alternator ( this could be in the injectors going mad )
6 - the other is the ROUND relay on the front bar - but NO idea what this is
7 - the EGI relay ( up by the leading coils ) - this seems OK - clicks once when you turn the car on and clicks once when you turn it off
8 - the fuel pump seems to be running when the clicking is happening - so this is prob causing the flooding probs - loads of juice
9 - still cant get the radio to work :(
right chaps - need some help with this one - im stuck well and truely :(
Stu
The duty solanoid is by the alternator, that clicks. you can un plug that as you dont need it to start the car. it just up the boost a little when the ecu allows it to. Might help narrowing things down.
Do you want another helper on Sunday ????
Shaun
duty selanoid - i have heard of it - but no idea where it is :(
i know this might sound daft but a good way to explain
the top plenum ( the 4 pipe thingy under the IC )
you can see the end of a pipe thats about 3/4 round that runs under the 4 pipes - this is the thing that seems to click
now im not sure if this is a fuel rail .. hence me thinking its the injectors ??
im stumped on this i really am - but im not electrically minded :(
Stu
shaun - not sure yet buddy - might have given up by then !!
Don\'t give up buddy, It will fire, you just don\'t know whats causing yet !
Shaun
I presume you have checked the fueses?
If there is a Spark and Fuel i\'d treat it as a flood and keep trying.
Does it have good compresion when you spin it over with the plugs out (does the psshh noise sound loud)?
The more i think about it, i would seriously try Unpluging the Fuel pump and use Easystart to get it to fire, once it fires plug the Pump back in, there should be more than enough fuel knocking about to start it.
Being an Auto it must be putting quite a bit of fuel in there every time the rotor passes the Inlet.
When you spin it over with the Plugs out is there alot of White smoke being pushed out of the plug holes?
I have had cars flood so bad thet the only way i could get it going was to toe it and to be honist it makes you feel that there is a problem thats not there.
Do you have a little compressor? i\'d be tempted to stick an air line in the plug hole with the Plugs out (oviously) and blow lots of air in (make sure its just air that goes in ;)) then turn it 120 then do it again etc until they have all the baths have had 10 mins of air blown through and then you know they will be dry. Warm the plugs up and try again.
The cd i sent to Mick has hundreds of pages of drawings. electrical etc...
CD info for hire :) :) :)
kiddin m8
let me know what u need
This is what I\'m thinking of replacing RX7 with
http://www.pantherclub.co.uk/Georges/red%20solo/red%20solo.htm
looks nice tony :D
plugs are firing - i checked these - its the relays clicking thats getting annoying now :(
compression sounds fine - nice and and loud :D
white smoke - errr dont think so - lots of fuel came out .... not sure if thats a good sign or not
can you tow start and auto though ??
Stu
No Dont try tow a auto
spent another 4 hrs just now in it
1 - still got the stupid clicking
2 - its defo the round relay at the front - removed this and its all still clicking
3 - removed the air box
4 - another relay under there is clicking - so removed that
5 - got under the dash - removed the relay under there - still all clicking
6 - sounds like every click is firing the injectors - so this is causing the flooding no doubt
7 - you can smell the fuel from miles away
8 - put it all back together - still all clicking
9 - remove the EGI fuse - clicking stops
10 - put that back in - remove the engine fuse - clicking stop
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... how the hell can i trace this ????
11 - head lights wont go up or down either - this is a seperate issue though ( although still annoying )
next plan - gallon of petrol and a match
giving up now - spent tooo long and getting no where
Stu :(
how good are the plugs Stu?
they dont look tooo bad to be honest
i really want the clicking to stop before i try and start it again
as soon as you go to start the car all the clicking starts - its just like the injectors think its running and start firing - although its very loud
i even put a massive wire in to earth the battery better - this hasnt helped either :(
really getting on my tits now to be honest ... there is no end in sight
im happy with mechanical things - just electrics - i have no idea
Stu :(
11, will be a ither the Motors sticking or The Motor Relay on the front panel.
yeah probably - not bothered about them to be honest
i want the car to run !!
need to get the turbo timer out to narrow down the probs - its just not looking simple :(
MobileMick - is this something you could remove ???
Quote from: grinder2 - its defo the round relay at the front - removed this and its all still clicking
If you took that one out and it\'s still doing it, probably not anything to do with the problem Stu - leave it out, I think the round relay is for aircon system anyway, and you don\'t need to worry about that
Quote from: grinder3 - removed the air box
4 - another relay under there is clicking - so removed that
Ok - the relay under the airbox switches the fuel pump resistor in and out of circuit. During cranking / acceleration, this relay short circuits the resistor that is in series with the fuel pump so that the pump sees 12v and not the 9v it would normally see. When at idle / decellerating this relay is out of circuit and the resistor is in series - reducing the fuel flow to the engine as it\'s not needed. You might want to plug that one back in.
Quote from: grinder6 - sounds like every click is firing the injectors - so this is causing the flooding no doubt
7 - you can smell the fuel from miles away
8 - put it all back together - still all clicking
9 - remove the EGI fuse - clicking stops
10 - put that back in - remove the engine fuse - clicking stop
Maybe it\'s the injectors clicking - if so, then they are being instructed by the ECU to provide fuel - seems as if the ECU is getting signals from TPS (throttle position), Boost sensor and maybe others to say fuel required.
I would run through some checks on all the sensors, check the TPS - should find a link on here how to set that up - need a pair of bulbs or a multimeter for that job, check all the fuses are good for ECU - check that the turbo timer isn\'t mucking about with the +ve supply lines to the ECU / injector harness etc.
My tubo timer has a plug halfway along ,which i could disconnect,
i can disco urs no problem,
i know i said it before, but, i`m 99% sure it will be losing a earth to relays,
Reading manual lol
mick
how much are we looking at for you to come and have a nosey for an hour
once i hear the car run i will be a happy bunny - im sure i can sort everything else out
i need someone with electrical now-how :D
i have the steering wheel coloumn ( sp ) in peices at the mo ,so all the wires are infront of you
it might only take you 10-15 mins - where as me - i could be looking at HOURS
you got an email addy so that i can mail you ??? - or you can mail me chojin22 ( at ) yahoo.com
Stu
He could fix yours then come round to mine ;)
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=282573
no idea what to do with this one to be honest - im at a loose end and no idea what to do ... to make it worse im skint as hell
gonna set a time limit - and if it wont play i will move it on or break it for spares
was all excited about this car - now i just want to torch the thing
the other cab had a shot engine - and i got that running - this thing .. not a cat in hells change and slowly filling the sump with petrol
i cant get my mind off it , but cant think of a possible solution - got all the dash in peices with about 300 wires of god knows what - i have no where to start and no idea what to do
i would rather rebuild a engine that do this - at least there is a procedure for that
this is just a mine field :(
really ****ed off to be honest :(
Stu
Stu - going back to your earlier post about 3/4 round pipe - this is the secondary fuel rail. If you hear clicking from here - make sure it\'s not from the BAC valve (on the outside - UIM) or the ACV (attached to LIM), as these also both have solenoid valves in them.
I think Mobile Mick is right - sounds like earthing problem or bad wiring somewhere in the looms. Also fits in with the lights not working etc..
With leccy problems you have to attack them a bit at a time. The pdf service manual and haynes guide have some good step by step instructions for testing each and every part that could be giving you problems - from relays and solenoids valves to the sensors themselves.
You want to try and eliminate as much of the circuitry that you can that has nothing to do with the engine management or making the engine run. HiFi, Logicon, lights, Air Con, hood mechanism, turbo timer - take the fuses out for these, and for the turbo timer, bypass the wiring so that the original loom routing is restored. Unplug and replug all the connectors to every thing in the engine bay, and also the ECU connector plugs - making sure there are no corroded connectors on any of them.
Check lambda sensor, temp sensors (water and intake air), and the 2 sensors on the inlet near the air filter. Check that each relay operates when supplied with 12v, and ditto for the solenoid valves - you should hear a postive tick when applying 12v on the terminals. Beyond that can\'t help much more from here :(
Hope you get it started chap :yes
i have checked what i can - and most of it seems OK to be honest
its just like the car thinks that its running - but it isnt
need to check the crank angle sensor thingy to make sure thats ok
everything seems to be OK and everything is in night and tight
might need to check the ECU - that could be fun - car not in the best place for this
i know what you mean about getting the wiring back to stock - there is just that much of it - i dont know whats orig and whats extra ( turbo timer and cat1 alarm )
certainly a puzzler - im now at the point of cant stop thinking about it - and i can now smell the fuel in the house - must be loads of it ( somewhere !! )
humm the plot thickens :(
Stu
id be willing to use the other car as a parts bitch to narrow it
swap that round relay
swap the crank angl sensor
see what happens and then report back ere.
id be lookin at the alarm too. cos when i disarm i only have a little time to start the car otherwise it will start up initially then cough and die.
hiya - not had chance to play today - got shouted at off the better half for spending too much time on it already
SOOOOOOOOO
1 - pulled the plugs agin
2 - turned the engine by hand and you are talking cup fulls of petrol coming out the plug wholes
3 - then i walked away from it in a huff !!
i need to check the TPS and the crank angle sensor to see what they are thinking
it sounds like as soon as you go to start the car it thinks its running at full tilt and pumping loads of fuel in
im assume that the clicking noise might be right at 7000 rpm ??!?!
who knows eh
Stu
Stuart, get yourself over here tomorrow with Shaun and leave it alone for a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well said, come on stu, should be a fun run if we don\'t get lost !
Shaun
no can do chaps - fingers crossed Mr MobileMick is coming having a nosey
might have to put my hand in my pocket again .. whats the world coming to eh :( LOL
i would have loved to come shaun - its just real bad timing - already in the bad books with spending soo much time on this car - dont want to make it worse - she will be packing my bags for me !! LOL
Stu
had no contact from mick - so i assume he was busy
been reading this : http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/errorcodes/main.html
and i must admit - the TPS ( code 6 ) - sounds about right .... just need to work out how the hell to build one and not flood the car straight away when i put the key in !!
it does sound about right - The ECU assumes 100% throttle position - if thats the case - then yeah i can imagine it would dump that much fuel in ??
but why do they relays click like hell ??
also came accross this : http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/idle.html
from reading this - it would seem that the air con relay does come into play ??
Stu
blooming heck:eek:
you must have square eyes reading all that.:Typing
it all seams like gobley gook to me, as im used to old mgb\'s with with carbs.
if i could help i would but if i was in you position i think now would be the time to get some expert help [sorry Stu but you will have to "spend some money":( ] before you go mad and your wife want a trial seperation.:spank
my son say\'s i look just like this:wiggle [not as yellow] and he\'s not far out.:spank :yes :Nono! :yes
its a learning curve - thats all :D
im happy to spend on it - just not a vast amount
just waiting to hear back from mobilemick to be honest
Sorry Stu, got busy today, what time u home tomoz
Mick
hiya mick
on monday - i will be home at 6:00 ish - does this help
ta
stu
I would have thought the ECU a more likely culprit than the tps - even if the throttle was reading full open by the sensor youd assumedly still have to have a signal saying it was at high revs for large amounts of fuel to be dumped in.
I had an xjs once which had ecu failure and locked open 7 of the injectors due to the ecu failing - that behaved similarly to what you describe. have you tried pulling the plugs on the injectors and cutting off the fuel supply to see if thats whats clicking away?
there is lots of stuff clicking away - and its all hinged round the EGI side of stuff
You know when I put new battery on it started right away. None of this carry on your having...
this is what i dont understand tony - it was running fine for you - it stands for a few weeks and now this ??
the only thing i can think of is when you said that you reved it and it cut out - maybe something was on its way out at that point
did the headlights work for you ( up and down ) ???
keep up the ideas guys - im gettin nowhere with this and the better half isnt a happy bunny
stu
They worked when I bought it but didnt work the week before you came..
Did you get a look at the Manual off Mike
offer still stands stuart!!
tony - not had much contact off mick - i assume he is busy - and the lights - thats also a strange one !!
Alan - yeah i know matey - not as if you are around the corner though :(
pity its not summer - it would be light now and i would beable to play with it
stu
Stu, What sort of Charger did you Juice up the Battery with? I\'ve seen cars before now where people have not disconected the earth before charging and its screwed up the ECU. If its a Trickle Charger putting less than 4 amps in you\'ll be ok but leaving it on more than a few hours at say 8 may cause damage.
I know this is kind of grasping at straws but is there much fuel being returned to the tank when you turn it over? I\'m just thinking if some thing like the Fuel reg stuck it would cause it to WAY!!! over fuel?
Also was\'nt this the car that had some of the dash out? I admit i had my T2 running with no Dash or clocks in but i can\'t remember if there was any Earths etc that had to be conected behind there?
i think its only a 4amp charger to be honest - it was a cheapo nasty one - hence it being on for soooo long
i dont think any fuel is being returned to be honest - fuel guage has gone down - but i cant be sure of this
where is the fuel reg ?? and would it cause the non starting - clicking etc...
and when i say dash - its the surround for the dash ( lights , cruise , indicators etc.. )
the clocks are still in
Stu
ok, TBH i don\'t think the reg would cause the clicking and it sounds like there is not enough of the dash out to cause a problem there.
So i\'d be looking at the relays and finding out exactly what they are and where they get there signal from, may even be worth getting some jump leads and conect one from the Neg to the engine and the other from the neg to the Body so there is a proper good earth to work from.
I\'d also be tempted to put the dash back together or at least plug every thing in so there is nothing thats unplugged.
Also when you say there is loads of clicking where abouts is it coming from? Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in a few times to clean the conections or even swap them one at a time with your other car (posably a bad relay???)
hiya chris
i have put a huge earth lead from the battery to the body
i put a set of jumpleads on the neg battery post and went round the engine - again to check earths - this did nothing
the relays - best i can find out it
1 - the air con one
2 - the one under the battery box
3 - one under the steering wheel
4 - and the injectors seem to be going mad
all these goes loverly and quiet when you take the EGI fuse out though - so its DEFO that area thats faulty
its the clicking that my main concern - if i can stop that - then i have a chance of starting her - i just really dont know where to look next
and im not sure if a failing sensor would cause this
i might unplug the TPS and CAS and see if that stops it ( might disconnect the fuel pump aswell .. if i can find the damn wire )
at least if its gonna click im not dumping fuel everywhere :D
car is just in a bad place to work on at the mo - and its too heavy to push around !! LOL
i unplugged the aircon relay and it something was still clicking , unplugged the one under the air box ( bolted behind the light ) - still clicking - removed the one under the steering wheel - it still clicked
now doing loads of reading about this - there isnt much left of the EGI side of stuff :D
Stu
its got to be something in this list that throwing its dummy out the pram !!
crank angle sensor
throttle position sensor (TPS)
water thermo sensor
water temperature sensor
intake air temperature sensor
power steering sensor switch
the air conditioner relay
the initial set coupler
or then there is this aswell :
3. Turn off the ignition. Remove the connector from the BAC valve and check the resistance of the BAC valve solenoid. This is done by connecting an ohm-meter across the BAC valve terminals. Care must be taken not to let the probes touch each other or you will get a false reading. You should get somewhere between 10 and 20 ohms. The manual says 10.7 to 12.3 ohms, but it\'s really not that picky. What you don\'t want is near zero ohms (solenoid is shorted) or very high resistance (solenoid is open-circuit.) If you have a shorted or open-circuit solenoid, you will need to replace the BAC valve. You might want to try disassembling it just on the off chance that it is repairable.
4. With the connector still removed, and the engine still off, place a 10k ohm, 1/4 watt resistor across the terminals of the connector. This is easy to do, simply insert the resistor leads into the connector. Make sure that the leads of the resistor do not short against each other or anything else. Turn the ignition on, without starting the car, and measure the AC voltage across the resistor. You should get a value between 6 and 7 volts after it settles down. A voltage lower than 5V indicates a likely ECU failure. Go here for more information. If you get the correct voltage, move on to the next step.
soo many things - sooo little time :D LOL
Stu
Stu - what model year is this car ?
Pre 89 or a later one ?
I can have a look at the circuits in both new and old versions pdf\'s that I have, and give you a point by point flow from the EGI fuse to wherever that supply ends up (ECU, injector harness and fuel pump - I believe)
From memory, you have the main relay - metal can one near the bulkhead, a circuit opening relay under the steering wheel - this disables the fuel pump, so if it\'s clicking then the interlock switch on the gearbox is faulty or the car is not quite in or out of drive - yours is an Auto I believe) The relay under the Airbox is fed from this one, and that controls the fuel pump resistor - in or out of circuit. On earlier models there was also a switch in the MAF sensor that disabled the fuel pump if the car was turned over - depends on the shape of air meter you have - round one is later one without the switch, square boxy one is earlier model.
When cranking, only the primary injectors should fire, the secondaries are only used under load or when accelerating hard - If both sets are firing then you have a faulty ECU. You could connect a low wattage 12v bulb or LED and series resistor (680 Ohms) in place of the injector to tell you if they are firing. The secondaries are the ones directly under the UIM, the primaries are the lower ones and are much closer together.
Bit more info for you....
blody hell prof - im impressed :D
its a 1991 model
and too be honest - sounds like both are firing - you can feel the secondary fuel rail vibrating - so that would sugges that the injectors are working over time
i suppose if it is the ECU then that would explain a lot of thing - just need to work out what it is :D
if you can get me a step by step guide of what fires - then surely disconnecting the first item should stop the rest ??
this is one hell of a fault finding process
someone did suggest the ECU - and i know sadgoth has a spare working one - so might have to give him a shout - like i said - just need to work out what ECU is in the thing - as i have been told that although is a 1991 - it could be running a S4 ecu - as its a jap import ??
keep up the ideas prof ... :D :D :D :D
Stu
think it will be an S5 ECU, just not sure if the Auto has a specific ECU or not?
yeah the problem mark - neither do i
and the car is parked close up against the fence ( passenger side ) - so cant get to the ECU - YET !!!!!!!!!!
The ECU\'s themselves are actually fairly similar across types - I have an EGI one from an S4 or S5 - can\'t remember model, but I think it was an S4, and compared with my old TII one (S5) and the component placement is identical. What differs is the ROM, and on the S4 I think there was an additional off board Jetronic controller box that manages the EFI stuff in conjuction with the ECU.
An S5 ECU would therefore work, but would probably require the ROM be swapped (not an easy job, as it\'s not socketed). Can be done by somebody with a desoldering station and a lot of patience. You can cut the old chip out, by snipping the legs, and then put a socket in, and replace the ROM, but we would need the ROM from the correct ECU - yours would probably be ok, even if the ECU failed, but getting it out cleanly is the issue.
thanks prof - im just hoping that it will be plug and run to be honest !!
just need to find out exactly whats in mine - then go on the hunt ( if this is the cause ) ??
see here may help you id your ECU http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FAQ/ecutype.html
so by rights it should be a N380 looking at that list ?
is it possible to get to the ECU without opening the passenger door - this is the new challenge :D
yes if you can get the carpet up without opening the door
hummm i dont think you can - as the carpet goes under the kick plate - looks like its a lot of car pushing round then !!
marc - how much did you want for the ECU ( based on it fitting ?? )
Stu
I\'ll check the numbers on mine as well - but I think I have an N370 and N374 -which isn\'t even on your list !
humm this could get interesting then :(
how much?
not too much ;)
I don\'t know maybe £40 ish inc postage?
HOW MUCH ... hummmm thats a lot to pay if its not the problem
i need to dig deeper before i commit
humm been digging around - and some nice chap is selling one for £20 so will prob go down that route :D
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27429
Go on Scrooge..
You should have the package tomorrow...
cheers tony
like i said - need to find what ecu is in the car first before i go about buying one :D
couldn\'t remember what price I\'d said on the ECU TBH, saved me hunting through my old postings! so yep £20 is fine (plus p&p though ;) )
My Jap spec ECU had the rom socketed, however it was chipped, so theres a chance that panspeed were fitting the sockets? Uk EGI\'s had N374\'s IIRC, I think my JDM one was an N340?
I have N380 with EGI stamped on it also (which actually came off my car), and the other one is N374 which came off an older EGI - brought this one for £25 notes to play around with.
Neither were socketed, and the BLITZ access one I brought on eBay was not socketed either, but the chip had been replaced.
But sounds like you\'ve got one coming your way in any case.
so looks like i need to find out what ecu is in it then
Mark - is there an 8 digit number on there somewhere aswell ( rotechnics said that these need to match aswell ?? )
cheers
stu
hiya chaps
right then - done some more work on it
1 - checked the TPS ohm rating things - they are all OK apart from the idle narrow range and rather than being 0.8 - 1.2 its about 1.36 - cant see that making a difference though
2 - all the other readings are OK
3 - checked the crank angle - and all thats withing ohm - so thats ok
4 - disconnected the TPS - car still clicks
5 - next plan - remove the ECU - see if it still clicks ( could be interesting ) - then get the numbers off it and see who has one
sounds like a plan eh :D
Stu
Has the light at the end of the tunnel turned back on ???
Hope it gets sorted soon !
Shaun
its still a faint glint - just to add a spanner in the works - looks like im gonna have to fork out for some coilovers for the TII - will go nicely with the SS exhaust and FMIC :D
looks like im gonna be a busy boy
Stu
you and me both :)
Shaun
is that an offer to help :D :D :D
Bloody hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!...how long is this going to take ??????????? :Laugh It takes less time to overthrow a goverment\\plan a coup de ta (sp)....:Hammer :rollin
its its that easy matey - why arent you stood on my drive with the car running !! LOL
and for an answer to "how long" - bloody soon i hope matey
ECU check next - then thats it - im lost :(
he he he
stu / grinder
Quote from: grinderis that an offer to help :D :D :D
As always, Here to help :p if possible.
Shaun
how much for the roof G? :)
now now mr nuttah :D
i might have a few things for sale in the next few weeks though .. really need to get some cash back
i have a spare roof cover ( for when its down ) , the wind cheater that sits behind the seats - and maybe a set of 16 inch split rims that need rubber
not sure yet to be honest - but im poor and people keep selling toys i want !! LOL
Stu
Hi Stu, still strugglin, are u not home during the day cos bit pushed to get over after tea :)
How much u want for Roof cover :)
Mick
PM me ur address and i`ll see how far it is
hiya mick
i cant PM you as you are not a fully member
and i work 9-5:30 - so its usually night time that im free - im not 100% stuck yet - just need to check out the ECU side - if that fails - then i will DEFO need your help
the roof cover - no idea to be honest - but as a guide
1 - i have a reciept for it from 2002 and it was £350 + vat
2 - to get from mazda you are looking at the best part of 500
so not too sure what a fair price is to be honest ???
will email you my addy
ta
stu
Quote from: grinderso looks like i need to find out what ecu is in it then
Mark - is there an 8 digit number on there somewhere aswell ( rotechnics said that these need to match aswell ?? )
cheers
stu
Will check in the box of tricks tonight
cheers mark :D
hiya chaps
well it came to the crunch tonight and i ripped the ecu out
what did i find in there ... a knightsport chipped ECU ( along with lots of rust )
i took some pics - but they arent that great :(
all the ecu is corroded inside - so this could be the prime culprate
numbers on the ecu are :
EGI
N374
N374 18 881G
so no idea if anyone has one
can you all go and check now please :D :D :D
Stu
( there are some more numbers on there if you need them aswell :D )
these are the pics - not sure how they look - my monitor has really bad colour issues - so i cant really tell :(
Well it don\'t look too healthy.
Can\'t you put your Black ones Ecu on it just to see if it makes any diffrence?
i thought of that matey - but dont want to blow that up if something is majorly wrong
it a wonder that this thing ran - maybe i should have checked this first !! LOL
i just hope someone has one that fits
and just paid for some coilovers - so now im POOR :(
Stu
i would say that is prob shafted
Quote from: arrouki would say that is prob shafted
im thinking on the same lines :D
i just hope someone has one
Stu
Its posable that it could have got wet? may have worked you never know.
I would be tempted to put the ECU of the black on on it but if you are a big Girl :yes put an add in the Wanted section and do the E-bay thing there always comeing up, of course every one wants to upgrade so there not worth alot.
Would it be worth taking it to an Electrical repair shop (you know the type of place that do TV\'s) and see what they think? it may be repairable?
Stu you have PM.
Just out of interest - did you get a pic or can you get a pic of the ROM chip - it will be about 3.5cm long, 1.5 cm wide and will have a label stuck on top with some writing or printed words - and maybe a 4 digit hex code. It will have 28 pins, and is on the board with the larger chips on it. This is the code that makes the ECU an N374 or N380 or Knightsports or whatever. It looks like someone converted an older ECU to a Knightsports one, so you can\'t go by the numbering mate.
If the ROM chip is socketed I can probably make a copy for you and convert another ECU to a knightsports one - as the legs on yours may be a bit corroded.
oh christ - i hope they havent converted an old one - i will have no idea what to replace it with ?!?!?
i can get pics of the chip - and yeah its about 28 pins - looks like a plug and play item
Stu
( quick hunt now to find out what i do have - this could be fun )
another ecu list i found :
ECU Part Numbers (this is the version # that\'s on the ECU itself)
84-85 GSL-SE N304 18 880A
86-87 NA N326 18 880, N3Y6 18 880
87 Turbo N332 18 880
88 NA N327 18 880
88 Turbo N333 18 880
88 Convertible N338 18 880
89 NA California N350 18 880
89 NA Fed. N351 18 880
89 Conv. CA N352 18 880
89 Conv. Fed. N353 18 880
89 Turbo N370 18 880
NOTE - If there\'s an "R" at the end, it\'s a remanufactured ECU. They also change the last 3 digits to "881". Example - \'89 Turbo Reman. - N370 18 881R. A remanufactured ECU isn\'t necessarily bad; it DOES mean the ECU was replaced.
and no 374 ??
I think the only thing that may be a problem is its Auto, i\'ve swaped ECU\'s around from car to car in the Past (they where all S5 Turbo\'s and Manual though).
I know the EMS that was in my 1990 Manual Vert was defo a N370. But as i say being an Auto may mean it has a diffrent Part number? But looking at your List it would seem not?
Stu, email me. If all else fails send the ECU to me and I\'ll repair it for you :)
Depends on how bad the corrosion is. When water sits for a time on the PCB, the remaining flux on the board is dissolved and begins to eat away at the component legs and pcb tracks. This can weaken them. Also, if water gets into components like coils and capacitors, they will most likely need replacing.
It may be repairable, but for peace of mind it would be better to swap the eprom onto another ECU and be assured you have a good one.
One thing to be aware of - it looks as if water is leaking onto the ECU from somwhere - you might want to track that down PDQ Stu !
rust eh........ that will be mazda\'s trusty softop, you can trust it will always leak!
put the ecu on your running one, see if it starts :)
naa better not lol
Mick
QuoteStu, email me. If all else fails send the ECU to me and I\'ll repair it for you
Can u repair any ECU`s Brett
Mick
problem with a lot of the lists of ECU part numbers is they are US lists, remember the US did not have a turbo cabrio and for some strange reason, they seem to deny its existance on the US forums! They\'ll talk about the JDM turbo II and the European turbo II but never about the Turbo cab!
hiya chaps
feeling a lot better about the car at the mo - im hoping that the ecu swap should fix it :D
i will keep you all posted - she may live to fight another day at this rate :D
Stu
:2eek FIX THE LEAK - otherwise you are going to toast another ECU Stu !:2eek
Prof : pics for you
its hard to find a leak when the cab now sits under a nice dry car port :D
all the floor looks ok - its just around the ECU and Kick Plate for it
im gonna clean it all out when i get chance - so will try and find out where its been coming from
Stu
see, maybe you were premature to start throwing you toys out of the cot eh Stu?
Nice one - that looks like it would lift right out and go into another ECU ;)
I can unsolder the chip out of one of mine and put a turned pin socket in it, then I can swap you the chipless ECU for your old one minus the chip - just put the chip in the ECU and away you go. You pay postage on both units and I still get an ECU to play with !
Could do this over the weekend if your interested.
sounds like a plan prof ... OR ......
do you want me to ship my ECU to you - you can take a copy of the chip - then stick the chip in the other ECu and send it back to me ?
can you copy chips ???
hows that ???
Stu
Yep that would work to, although copying chips is illegal and should not be attempted by untrained...... blah blah.:spank
I will make a \'backup\' copy of the chip in case your one is faulty. :Typing
So send away...
sounds like a plan - will get it in the post tomorrow
just need you to PM your addy now :D
i will pay the postage on the way to you - once you send back let me know the price and i will transfer you the money ( and what i owe for the light cover )
oohhhh you could send the light cover and ecu at the same time - saves hassle in the future :D
does the ECU need insuring to some stupid amount when posting ????
Stu
That could be a plan Stu damaged in the post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kevin
He He - the one I got from Japan was just in a cardboard box about 1mm bigger than the ECU !
And the bloody thing worked first off !
Those ECU cases are pretty tough as it goes.
But good idea about the light cover - would save you a tad on postage too !
Can\'t be many S5 Auto imports breaking in the UK.
Heres another option....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-FC3S-KOUKI-STD-ECU-TESTED-13B-T-RX7-S5-N374_W0QQitemZ220032804441QQihZ012QQcategoryZ33596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-FC3S-KOUKI-STD-ECU-TESTED-13B-T-RX7-S5-N374_W0QQitemZ220032804441QQihZ012QQcategoryZ33596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Kev
PS What happend to the option of putting your own words in a link?
another more expensive chipped one..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-RX7-FC3S-KOUKI-RE-AMEMIYA-REDOM-ROM-TUNED-ECU_W0QQitemZ220031695009QQihZ012QQcategoryZ33703QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Quote from: FD3UKPS What happend to the option of putting your own words in a link?
I found an easy way of doing this - type your words in the thread, then select the words you want to hide a link behind and then hit the link button - then just cut and paste your link in !
but the first link - still seems have have different numbers then mine ?!?!
im just really hoping that prof is right and its a case of swapping chips - it could be really expensive if it doesnt work
Stu
I could take pics of both boards on both ECU\'s before swapping the chips to show you the units are the same !
It\'s much cheaper to make a board that covers all the options and then only populate it or program it with what you need it to do. Same approach with motherboards, laptops you name it.
this is true matey - i have faith in you :D
just need an addy to send it to :D
will package it up tonight and send it sat morning - should be with you monday/tuesday
if i can get it back by the weekend that would be SUPERB :D
stu
or you could get a microtech for the coupe and take the ecu from the coupe, put it in the cabrio;) ;) ;) :evillaugh you know you want to.....:cheers
Quote from: grinderthis is true matey - i have faith in you :D
just need an addy to send it to :D
will package it up tonight and send it sat morning - should be with you monday/tuesday
if i can get it back by the weekend that would be SUPERB :D
stu
should be with you as you read this !
certainly looks like it
Mark - with what i have spent in the last few months - i could have bought a brand new LT10 and got it tuned :D
I didn\'t know you could get brand new LT10\'s for £10 ;)
QuoteI didn\'t know you could get brand new LT10\'s for £10
Oi dont forget the price of the car as well.
Oh you did Sorry :)
Know it\'s a bit late but i have a spare ecu from my 90 T2 with a Stage 1 chip fitted by WGT gathering dust in the shed.
I\'ve still got the receipt for the work carried out.
Paul
Quote from: KronI didn\'t know you could get brand new LT10\'s for £10 ;)
ooooohhh nasty - i reckon ive spent over £600 on bits in the last few months - that could have for me a microtech :D
Paul - just out of interest matey - what ECU number is it ?
U got a update Grinder, is it running now :)
Did you get the EMS off yesterday :)
its not running no - sent the ecu off to prof for him to fix :D - this should sort it
chris .. EMS ????????
LOL u Joking.....:rollin
EMS (the proper name) = Engine management system Or ECU
he he he
the EMS/ECU looks shot - so its being fixed ( or should i say having the chip removed and put into another ecu )
fingers crossed it should be running by the weekend - and if not - errrr no idea then !!
Stu
Will let you know when I get yours, but already removed the ROM out of the donor ECU in readiness - took some pics of it all as well, so we can do a like for like comparison. Just need to unsolder the legs that I snipped, then solder in the new turned pin socket in readiness to receive your knightsports chip. For those interested, the original ROM was actually a 27C256 Eprom - so it looks as if the ECU\'s didn\'t use a mask programmed ROM.
If there are any resistors or links that are different between the 2 ECU\'s, I will replicate these on the Donor, so the eventual ECU will be exactly as your damaged one.
I am also going to take a copy of the original ECU ROM, as it would be interesting to see where the changes are !
Annotated pics to follow...
cheers prof
the ECU will be with you today - although it will need signing for i think ??
the PO woman said it will be dinner time
can you let me know when you get it - i did insure it for £500 just incase :D
Stu
prof : they tried to deliver it already and have a left you a "you wasnt in" card
I know - wife just MSN\'d me to say the cheeky bugger didn\'t ring or anything - she knew they were coming today, so she was waiting. :2Mad
The parcel bloke is different from our normal letter guy, he is pretty good normally.
The post sorting office is on my way home, the problem is I will be back later tonight as we have something on at work. This means I will be picking it up Tuesday afternoon. Should be ok, as I can get it fitted up Tuesday evening and posted on Wednesday - so should still make the weekend for you ! :cool
i hate it when that happens !!
its strange - sometimes they dont ring or anything
then other times they do daft things like leave it behind the bin ??
if its here for the weekend then thats superb - but dont go out of your way for me though Dave
i will picture your face when you actually look inside the ECU - me and my mate laughed for about 10 mins when we saw it
Cheers
stu
I was guessing your pictures didn\'t tell the whole story !
That thing with all the rust on it was once a resistor of some sort, looking at my ECU. I will post up pics tonight of the donor one - it looks a lot cleaner! :rollin
Did you find anything alive in there?
Cheers,
Dave.
I really find this amazing. As I\'m suprised I had it running 6 weeks before you bought it.
The pics of ecu look like they have been like that for years.
Lets hope it runs after you have sorted this...
Water contamination is a funny thing. It could have been like that for a while, but it\'s only when the water / water mixed with flux from the soldering process begins to corrode or elctrolyze the components and tracks on the board that the problems start. Some capacitors will absorb moisture, and go from a relatively non conductive component to a conductive state, which is less that ideal, as they are normally wired across all the sensor inputs acting as suppressors. This means the sensor values will be all over the shop. Likewise, current passing across the board into areas where it shouldn\'t could produce all sorts of undesirable effects. If outputs are feeding back into inputs, then basically the whole thing starts acting like a metronome - flipping between 2 unstable states.
From the pictures Stu posted, there is a white / orange bloom around the components, which suggests the water was contaminated with iron oxides (rust) and some sort of salt deposit - possibly from the flux left on the board. Both of these will make the water a lot more conductive - and try putting a couple of leads from a 12v battery into water with a little salt or something in it - you will see what electrolysis is all about !
There is normally a protective spray on lacquer layer on the PCB, but it won\'t last long under that kind of chemical assault.
dave - there was nothing alive in there no :(
tony - im also shocked that it did run - maybe when you reved it and it went to a different map - then it shorted itself out ???
fingers crossed this fixes it :D
Stu
Dave - if you get chance tomorrow - can you take me a pic of the knightsport sticker - i might email them and see whats been done to it
the footwell is very rusty down there - so all what you say makes sense :D
like you say - need to find the leak next ( although would like to hear the car run first before i go mad on it )
wonder if the ECU will fix the head lights ???
Stu
Quote from: grinderDave - if you get chance tomorrow - can you take me a pic of the knightsport sticker - i might email them and see whats been done to it
Will do !
Would be interested to know as well !
cheers matey
there is some guy on here has done it - so its worth a shot
its ref this thread :
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30318
so would need the info from the top sticker ( not sure what it said - but it said something )
they may beable to check on the computer to whats been done
fingers crossed for
.9 bar
increased fueling
9K rev limit :D
LOL
more likely they took the rev limit off - but buzzer still sounds, and populated the missing part of the map above 8.8 PSI with the removal of the Fuel Cut to rear rotor - basically built in FCD, but with the mapping to go with it.
Also probably tweaked the maps lower down for more torque at the expense of emissions / fuel economy (not much change), based on after market exhaust and intakes. It will make quite a bit more power with a boost controller to lift the boost limit. I never got mine dyno\'d when it was running 12-13 PSI boost, but it felt a hell of a lot quicker than it does now, and it isn\'t slow now :)
you\'ll have to have a play when it comes !
i have sent them the pic off page 5 - i think that has most of the stuff they will need
although a little bit of checking around and a lot of guess work
0.8kg = 11.37psi = 0.78 bar
the car is running stock intake and exhaust though ??? - so still not sure why its got the knightsport ECU ??
oh well eh :D - the plot thickens
Stu
got an email back from knightsports :
The spec of #310767 is as follows;
Type Advance
Mazda Stock Turbo.
Exhaust : All parts is Mazda stock.
Boost : 0.8kg/cm2
Rev limit : canceled.
Best Regards
not to keen on the rev limit removed - although not sure what that means ??
i have mailed them back asking if the fuel map will have been altered to cope with the boost
could be an interesting car to drive to be honest !
Stu
That means you can rev it until the seals fly out of the exhaust and the bearings collapse! I\'d keep it on the dial in terms of revs if I were you! :)
Quote from: grindernot to keen on the rev limit removed - although not sure what that means ?
Nothing to worry about over much, just allows you to rev past 7000 RPM.
The only caveat is that the oil and water pumps can\'t work at these RPM rates for any length of time, so it\'s ok for a quick blip, but not sustained use.
Does make it interesting at the lights sometimes, as you can leave it very late for the gear change :3gears-rh :Giggle
he he he :D - yeah cheers matey
aslong as the red line buzzer sounds - it will be ok
just a shame its in a auto know !! LOL
i wonder what power its putting down ??
Around 0.0 probably more if you get it running :rollin
I reckon it would make 220-230 with the stock exhaust on it. You might get another 30-40 with a decent pipe on the back !
Are you going to dyno it, once it\'s running ?
BTW - got the pins out and the new socket in the donor ECU - will pick up yours tonight and post piccies of both boards, so you can see what\'s the same and what\'s different. :cool
i might dyno it yeah :D
and i will do the coupe once all the stuff has been fitted
not really looked at the exhaust on the cab - i dont know if its catted or not ??
got some big ass back boxes for it though :D :D :D
2 cars to work on - where will i find the time ??? LOL
Stu
OK, comparison pics of the 2 ECU models N374 and N380, and also annotated pics of the N380 so you can see what\'s what.
There are 2 boards in the ECU - one analogue board and one digital board. The analogue board has the power transistors that drive the Injectors, solenoids and relays, along with input amps for the sensors, conditioning circuits for the signals, and an atmospheric pressure sensor - easy to spot - it has a hole in it ! There is also some circuitry to buffer these signals onto the digital board.
The digital board holds the Processor chip - a DSP, a 16 channel a-d converter (to read the sensor inputs as digital values), a PIA chip which will be providing on/off signals - probably driving the injectors and solenoids, and there is some RAM (for temp storage - holds fault codes, working calculations etc..), the ROM chip which holds the MAP\'s and tells the ECU what to do.
Then there is another 40 pin chip whose function I cannot identify, it\'s different between the 2 models, but has the same pin out. I suspect it\'s some sort of support chip for the DSP, but what does it do?
Without track tracing I have no idea.
Good news is that I can probably transplant the digital board from Stu\'s ECU (N374) onto the analogue board from the N380, as the interface looks exactly the same, and the analogue board seems to have all the same circuitry - there are additional components on the N380, but these will be ignored on the Jap car.
Just curious Stu, but what side is the ECU on, gonna check mine for water leak :)
Mick
passenger footwell under the carpet there is a metal cover, ECU sits below it.
My spare ECU is an N380 by the way Stu.
Prof : so what did you think of my ECU - do we both agree that it looks faulty !!
so from reading your VERY complex post - it should work OK then ??
keep me informed how you get on - i have fingers and toes crossed at this point
come accross a N374 ECU on the aus site - so if all this fails i will pursuse that route ( dont really want to do that - as i want the knightsport chip to work !! LOL )
i cant thank you enough prof at this point
ta
stu
Stu,
Plan is as follows:
Shipping the donor ECU out today, it\'s the N380, but I have attached the dongle from your ECU, and the original knightsports chip is in.
I think this should be a goer, the only component that I am not too sure about was the other large 40 pin chip - this had part number MP4451 on mine, and MP4480 on your unit. I suspect that one is an enhanced version of the other, so should work with the code in the ROM. The main processor is the MP4400 which is the same on both boards, and the ROM code is for this unit, so your ROM will work with it.
As a backup to this, I will take your ECU apart, and clean up the board. I can replace anything that looks like it\'s had it, and then blow another EPROM with the knightsports code so that should be back as it is. If the analogue board is too shot, then I will fit your digital board to the analog board on an N380 - I can post that to you and we can arrange getting the first one back at a later date.
Either way I will be posting one today/tomorrow, and the other one will follow early next week if this one doesn\'t get her started. :)
blimey dave :D :D
so have you just swapped the chip over ??
like you say - the only thing that sounds confusing is the mp4480 and the mp4451 chip - i wonder if one is just a newer version ??
only time will tell on this one eh :D
mighy have a scout around and see if i can find some info on the chips ( doubt it though )
thanks again
stu
Quote from: grindermighy have a scout around and see if i can find some info on the chips ( doubt it though )
I\'ll be impressed if you turn anything up - I had a good old search for this last night - it\'s hard enough finding the MP4400 - let alone any of the support chips.
The logo on the chip is \'ND\' - I think they may be a 2nd source for Texas Instruments.
Good luck with your hunt !
well that came up with NOTHING !! LOL
i really hope this works matey :D :D
Stu
not updated you in a while so here goes
1 - ECU arrived
2 - put ECU in
3 - stick clicking but not as bad
4 - spend about 4 hrs today trying to start it and it will NOT run
5 - its actually pumping fuel out the exhaust .. thats not good
6 - took all the plugs out - all wet
7 - checked each plug for a spark - 2 fine - 1 iffy - 1 non at all
8 - checked all the leads - they all work with a working plug
this is where its gets messy
9 - my mate came round to help
10 - so we decided to remove the alarm ignition side
11 - still no difference
12 - we have now removed the cat1 alarm - not happy about this really - but it proved the point that it was working fine ( mate says he can refit it - bloody hope so )
13 - removed the turbo timer
14 - still clicks
15 - but can be refitted
so thats it chaps - im at a complete loss - no idea what to do - it looks like a mouse has eaten the wiring loom
i know that i dont need the alarm as the car wont run - but i really liked the cat1 for the insurance !! - we can fit it back - its just that the car looks a right mess at the mo
i really dont know what to do or who to turn to ??
i dont know if its worth throwing money at it ( and money is very tight at the mo )
i was ****ed off before with the car - but now im at an all time low
i still dont know if its ECU thats throwing a wobbler ( although prof supplied me with an ECU )
plan now i think is
1 - speak to pip and try and get a N374 ecu to test ( or another tuner )
2 - if this works then yippeee
3 - if it does im really tempted to bundle this and the coupe and walk away from RX7\'s - im that ****ed off with it all - i really am
i cant believe it , i really cant :( :( :(
i dont know enough about them to keep working on them - i have no space to work on the car , its winter , its cold , it goes dark tooo early
im getting grief from the better half - i really i dont know what to do
before i was about 40% annoyed with the car - but now its about 85% annoyed
i think the main thing is the removal of the Cat1 - i really liked the remote central locking :D - yeah im that sad !! LOL
:(
its very sad - im a 30 yr old man who wants to sit and cry at this moment intime
Stu / Grinder
Quote from: grindernot updated you in a while so here goes
1 - ECU arrived
2 - put ECU in
3 - stick clicking but not as bad
4 - spend about 4 hrs today trying to start it and it will NOT run
5 - its actually pumping fuel out the exhaust .. thats not good
6 - took all the plugs out - all wet
7 - checked each plug for a spark - 2 fine - 1 iffy - 1 non at all
8 - checked all the leads - they all work with a working plug
this is where its gets messy
9 - my mate came round to help
10 - so we decided to remove the alarm ignition side
11 - still no difference
12 - we have now removed the cat1 alarm - not happy about this really - but it proved the point that it was working fine ( mate says he can refit it - bloody hope so )
13 - removed the turbo timer
14 - still clicks
15 - but can be refitted
so thats it chaps - im at a complete loss - no idea what to do - it looks like a mouse has eaten the wiring loom
i know that i dont need the alarm as the car wont run - but i really liked the cat1 for the insurance !! - we can fit it back - its just that the car looks a right mess at the mo
i really dont know what to do or who to turn to ??
i dont know if its worth throwing money at it ( and money is very tight at the mo )
i was ****ed off before with the car - but now im at an all time low
i still dont know if its ECU thats throwing a wobbler ( although prof supplied me with an ECU )
plan now i think is
1 - speak to pip and try and get a N374 ecu to test ( or another tuner )
2 - if this works then yippeee
3 - if it does im really tempted to bundle this and the coupe and walk away from RX7\'s - im that ****ed off with it all - i really am
i cant believe it , i really cant :( :( :(
i dont know enough about them to keep working on them - i have no space to work on the car , its winter , its cold , it goes dark tooo early
im getting grief from the better half - i really i dont know what to do
before i was about 40% annoyed with the car - but now its about 85% annoyed
i think the main thing is the removal of the Cat1 - i really liked the remote central locking :D - yeah im that sad !! LOL
:(
its very sad - im a 30 yr old man who wants to sit and cry at this moment intime
Stu / Grinder
Stu Stu Stu, thats why we love our ROTORS,they make us angry,sad,happy,pi$$ed off...........but when they run,oh boy ecstacy !!!!!!!:D :cool :cheers
Era,
i know what you mean - but is it really worth the hassle
im now thinking that it might not be the ecu thats at fault - the fact that that its still doing it with a different one
hell i dont know :(
Stu
Your main problem is the amount of Fuel about, even if the ECU was good you would be able to tell as it would just Wet the plugs as soon as you Turn it over.
You need a way to a. Check you have a Spark roughly at the right Timing, b. cut the Fuel without cutting the Ign surly with that amount of fuel and the Correct Timing etc it should at least pop and Bang when you turn it over with the Fuel off (maybe add easystart and it may give you a bit more of a Fighting chance)
I know Auto\'s need alot more fuel on Idle when cold to keep running which won\'t help, is there anyway of tricking it to think its warm??? Auto\'s are such a Pain in the rear, you can\'t even toe it which is what it realy needs at this point in the game.
Don\'t give up yet mate. You can do this, if it ran just before you got it then there can\'t be much wrong with it from what i have read i would lay money on its Flooded and the more you try the worse it gets so you need too change your Approach.... Don\'t let it beat you just amagen the feeling when it Kicks up. :yes
Sound advice all round - and I will clean up your old ECU so that you have a setup that was known working at some point.
If your not getting spark on one plug - is it a leading or trailing. It should run without a trailing plug - just be a little lumpy.
Like others have said - don\'t give up on it, but maybe spend a bit of time with the missus and get her back on side :Ladys-man
Now that sounds a Plan..... Quality time with the the better half :yes
it was the PHYSICAL plug that wasnt working - the lead is fine - tried another plug in it and it worked
so would an engine run on 3 plugs ?
they are getting soaked in seconds :(
but why - is this just cause its an auto ??
it just coughs and then nothing
no flames , no banging , but literally fueling coming out a hole in the exhaust onto the floor - you could see it dripping
now why would it get soooooooooo much fuel ??
thing is now - im annoyed that it wont start , the dash surround is out , the clocks are out , the TT is out , the alarm is out , the centre arm rest tray is out and still its clicking
its like if i go back 3 days - i was at the same point - but the car still looked OK from the inside - its like we have just pulled apart a perfect system that wasnt at fault
im gutted to the pit of my stomach to be brutally honest - i can forsee a bad nights sleep ahead
to make it worse - we couldnt really afford the car - and i managed to convince her - and now this :(
im going to bed to cry
Stu
Quote5 - its actually pumping fuel out the exhaust .. thats not good
Try to start it without the fuel fuse in, if i come to look at it, i`ll take the fuel fuse out, and crank it over with foot down, till it starts, (pausing every 6 cranks, so u dont burn starter out ) 99% sure its flooded, get a good battery on it ,and you`ll hear it run
"so would an engine run on 3 plugs ?"
It Would\'nt run on any if it was Flooded enough but it won\'t help.
"they are getting soaked in seconds :("
Thats why its so hard to start a Flooded Rotary, The Apex\'s scrape the fuel off the Housing and dumps it into the plug before it has Chance to fire.
"but why - is this just cause its an auto ??"
Auto\'s always run Rich on Cold start, that alone won\'t help if its flooded to start with.
"it just coughs and then nothing"
Becouse the loads of Fuel is being dumped into the Plugs its proberly one bath that has dried out a Bit (may have been parked with the inlet open etc) and you get one shot before the Fuel in the exhaust fills it back up and it floods again.
"no flames , no banging , but literally fueling coming out a hole in the exhaust onto the floor - you could see it dripping"
There is two reasons for this, the first is the Plugs are wet so they won\'t work (no spark to make it go bang) the second is it\'s so Flooded the air to fuel ratio is soo rich it won\'t fire.
"now why would it get soooooooooo much fuel ??"
Visous Circle, If the engine floods it won\'t Burn the fuel thats already there but it does\'nt know that its still sucking air in so it thinks all is fine and sticks the same amount of fuel in on each rotation, now the engine is designed in such a way that as it gets flooded it will Turn to liquid again and any liquid fuel will follow the apex seal round, some will get pushed into the Exhaust port but there designed with a sleav so all the fuel does is site in the Port and slowly builds up until there is so much in there it runs into the Turbo and down the exhaust. This does not help at all with the Fuel in the Rotor, what often happens is there is SO much fuel knocking about that Liquid fuel can run back into the Rotor. As i say best bet is Trying to start it on Easystart with the Pump unpluged so there is no new fuel being dumped in but it will still be a pain in the rear.
"its like if i go back 3 days - i was at the same point - but the car still looked OK from the inside - its like we have just pulled apart a perfect system that wasnt at fault"
Yes but you where\'nt to know that.
Can\'t you give it a Brake for a Bit? Chill out and do some thing with the Better half.
All your Hair is going to fall out at this rate.
Stu, I\'d echo the comments above, when I flooded mine 1/2 to death, I had to start it without the pump connected in the end as I couldn\'t get the thing to stop flooding as soon as I turned it over! In the boot under the carpet follow the wires from the silver coloured cover over the fuel pump back to the socket and disconnect it there, clean up the plugs, go through the anti-flood process then turn it over. (if you can time it right - reconnect the pump while it\'s running and hey presto!) Don\'t give up though, just take a few days off and spend time with the family.
yeah i know chaps
i dont even want to look at the car at the mo - you cant get into the drivers seat for the sheer amount of wiring :(
i think this is more upsetting than the car not running
its the meet tonight - so i get a night off - will get the battery on charge aswell
plugs are out , so every thing is drying - i prob need some new plugs for it to be honest - just need to find some now ( and no harm in this - i can always put new ones in the coupe ! )
its just getting ontop of me - thats all - and im now physically loosing sleep over it :(
Stu
Quote from: grinderits the meet tonight - so i get a night off - will get the battery on charge aswell
:2eek BALLS!!!!!!! I forgot all about that. :2Rolleyes
Quote from: grinderits just getting ontop of me - thats all - and im now physically loosing sleep over it :(
Having a Night off is GOOD!!! Chill out.:guinness
Talk to me tomorrow during work Stu, and we will sort this out. (I refer you to my txt yesterday \'dont make me come up there\' ) :wave
Yes, the offer is still there stuart, Just remember, it is only a car, no one has died, or been hurt. .. pm me...
He passed me tonight, just has i pulled in his street, on a suprise visit to help. oh well lol
Hi Stu
Hope that Mascrat meet was good?
Sorry to hear all of the trouble you are having getting it started - you will get there with patience - it will be worth it! :driving
Yours still sounds like it\'s flooded to me - my cab\'s only done it once when it wasn\'t allowed to warm up properly & I was beside myself for hours - (I didn\'t believe it really happened before!) Anyway, together with the "Easy Start" trick that\'s being suggested, can I remind you of an annoying little quirk that I\'ve mentioned to you before in an email...
Silly thing, but I\'ve been caught out a couple of times with mine not starting because the gear lever\'s not properly \'seated\' in \'park\' - it looks like it is, but it\'s not quite clicked in. With this your dash lights will come on, but it\'s completely dead on the next turn of the key :( :( ((It even happened to Brett when he was driving it a few weeks ago and it gave us a few moments of head scratching! :rollin)))
Don\'t know if all automatic gearboxes do this??? - as it\'s the first I\'ve ever driven - but as it\'s the same model as yours, it\'s something else to bear in mind!
Lynn
:wave
thanks again chaps
mick - i didnt see you - really sorry matey !! - and i didnt have a clue who it was on the phone either ( music on full blast at the time of answering )
did you make a special trip ?? if so i do appologise
i think we are having another look tonight
whilst im awaiting plugs and stuff we are gonna try and trace all the relays and test them so see if they are all grounding properly
already got a buyer lined up if i get that annoyed with it :D
Stu
You might want to hold off on selling it till I\'ve had chance to clean up / repair your original ECU Stu (oooh that rhymed ! :D )
I will be having a look at it tonight, with a view to getting it up to you before the weekend :cool
checked the plug situation, I have a set of 9s :( sorry Stu, was sure I had some 7s but there you go! I can send them if you want though?
mark ,
if you dont mind - then im happy to accept
the more i have the better chance i get
and i can try the ATF trick aswell :D
Stu
OK, I\'ll pop them in the post tonight (if I remember)
cheers chaps - printed out a couple of sections from the FSM - gonna check some more relays etc... ( this is while im waiting for plugs to go in )
im sure it will run eventually - its just how long is a piece of string
its dead annoying - the coupe can sit for 6-7 weeks and starts first turn of the key
Quote from: grindermark ,
if you dont mind - then im happy to accept
the more i have the better chance i get
and i can try the ATF trick aswell :D
Stu
Be carfull with the ATF, too much will make your Situation worse (oil Kills plugs if there is too much)
I agree with Grizz, just deflood it and leave it open until you get your new plugs :yes
:D
Not a special trip Stu, I was doing a job 2.5 miles from your house, and your house was on the way home :)
I know where you live now (evil Laugh). so i know if i`m around that area, i`ll ring ya first :)
Mick
P.s Dont sell that cover :),
Quote from: MobilemickP.s Dont sell that cover :),
Rumour has it you may have more than one kicking about - if you want another buyer....:D
Sorry bud I\'ve only got 9\'s spark plugs. I\'ve got 8 in total, 4 average and 4 brand new ! Must have left the 7\'s with priss pringle.
Shaun
Does 7\'ns make alot of Diffrence? I\'ve always used 9\'s all round becouse there easy to get hold off and the Only starting problems i had was My fault?
Anyone that had used both, Did you notice a diffrence in Cold starting?
I\'ve always used 9\'s never had any problems at all. :)
good evening chaps :D :D
good to see you all still following the thread :D
spent another 1.5 hrs on the car
been checking the ecu for inputs
everything seems OK on that side and all voltages check out
odd thing is - when you remove the ECU all the clicking stops
so this suggests that its the ECU that is making it all click ??? ( if someone would agree with me - i would feel better )
we have checked the main relay ( passenger side right at the top near the trailing coil ) - this clicks on and off as it should
BAC seems to be putting out the correct OHMS - so thats OK ( or it would see )
me and my mate are still wondering if the ECU is still at fault - as its the output side that is causing the clicking
the narrow side of the TPS is intersting aswell - if this fails then the ECU assumes full throttle position - so this would prob run the fuel pump at full blast - but the TPS checks out on the OHMS side of stuff ?? ( or was very close )
we did have an issue with one input on the ECU - should have been 12v but was only about 9v - would this be a problem
gonna phone WGT tomorrow and see if he has a working N374 ECU that i can borrow to test
at the end of the day - 2 ECU\'s and still clicking - does this suggest that the Knighsport chip could be knackered ??? or its NOT an ECU fault ??
the plot thickens on this
on a good side - if i decide to break it - im getting there slowly as we are checking everything LOL :D :D
Mick / Prof : i have 2 covers to be honest :D - but i would only prob sell one .. i would keep one for the car ( and i have a rear wind cheater aswell - but assume you both have one ? )
well thats the update today :D
gonna check the Malfunction Indicator Side tommorrow and see if the ECU thinks there is a problem
my mate commented how arkward these cars are for electrics - you can see what the garages want £60 an hour to look at them - they are a nightmare :D :D
its all fun and games eh :D :D :D
Stu
I unplugged loads of relays. etc, from under bonnet, and couldnt get me ECU to click,
Still say you`ve a earth loose somewhere,
If it says its 12v then 9 volts is no good, wiggle the wire see if volts go up :)
Mick
Removing the ECU would stop all the clicking Stu, IIRC the ECU is is actually making the 0V contact to activate the realys, so no ECU = no circuit!
hummmm so any ideas then ??
or do we just start chasing wires around ??
we will try the wire wiggling tonight - just not the easiest thing to do
and i cant think which one was goiving us 9v .... hang on
its the ignition switch - it says i should get 12v at cranking - and we was only getting 9.xxV - so how do i make that get to 12v ??
and thats about as far as we got
and Mick - thats interesting - so by unpluggin stuff it wont click - so why does mine then ??!?!
could the ECU still be faulty ?
Stu
Another possibility is that the 12v power feed to the ECU is not good.
If the ECU doesn\'t see the full voltage, then you could be getting \'drop out\'. This could give the symptoms you are seeing - ECU switches outputs on, load appears pulling the 12v line down, ECU does not have enough voltage to hold output so it drops, load drops off the 12V line, ECU springs back to life and this goes around in circles.
Check that you get a decent 12V from the main relay, and from the EGI fuse.
thanks prof - more things to check for !
the pin that was only getting 9v - thats the power for the ECU ( ignition side )
but i dont know how to make it get 12v
its page 79 of the FSM ( section F )
Pin 1C - but it should show 12v at cranking - and it was only 9.xx V - BUT the clicking starts before you start to crank - with the ignition on - we do get 0v
we also checked the 3e,g,h and these say below 1v with the ignition ON - now we got 0v - so in theory that is below 1v - but is that accpetable ( the pins are the crank angle sensor ) - but we checked that out and the OHMS of it was just fine - unless its the wiring from THAT to the ECU thats broken ??
sooo many things to check
Stu
Pins 1a,1b are the voltage feeds to the ECU.
1a supplies 12v battery - there is a small CMOS RAM chip in the ECU that \'remembers\' the fault codes - that\'s why you remove power to reset them (remove neg battery terminal - pressing brake pedal will assist in discharging capacitors to ensure the ECU is reset)
1b is the main ECU feed - this line comes from the \'Main\' relay and should receive power whenever the ignition switch is at ACC or IGN
1c is a cranking sensor input, and backup feed to the ECU because the ignition switch cuts acc power when cranking.
You might only get 9v on 1c at cranking time, as the load on the battery will be high, but it could indicate a week battery.
If it clicks on IGN, then this suggests a possible sensor/output fault and the ECU may be reporting fault codes.
My duty solenoid pulses before the engine is cranked - makes an annoying ticker ticker noise, but the injectors are not firing. Your\'s appear to be, which is obviously a fault. I believe the clickng noise is part of a self diagnostic that the ECU runs at startup. Is it possible that it gets stuck in this mode and wont fire ?
A little bit more info for you !
BTW - hope you have treated the missus to a night out matey :Laugh :Nono!
the TII makes very quiet clicking noises - this is really really clicking ( you can hear them from about 6-8 feet away !!! )
if i get chance tonight - we will try and pull some error codes - might help us track this down a bit quicker
to make this clearer for all ... i will try and explain :D :D
1 - key in igntion ( no clicking )
2 - key turned to acc ( no clicking )
3 - turn key again to put the dash lights on ready to start ( clicking at this point )
4 - crank ( errrr probably clicking - cant hear it over the engine )
5 - stop cranking ( no clicking )
now from this point - steps 4 and 5 produce no clicking ( but you have to try and start it ONCE for the clicking to stop ) - although it you turn the key to 1 or 2 and then try and start it - the cycle starts again with the clicking
it could be a broken sensor - im just hoping the ECU will tell me what it is :D
Hmm, if the ECU is not getting 12V then I think its a major symptom of your problem (as his profship has said) try to trace the 12V feed and check you dont have a wire gone resistive.
Check what the Battery is putting out? If that may be low if its been Discharged then Charged all its life upto now?
Also do you know anyone with a Simalar year Auto vert? Maybe they would give you the Code of theres and at least it would give you an idea if the One on yours is correct and not a Messed with model of another car.
It sounds like your batterys duff, and everytime you are cranking it, its not turning fast enough, and you Flood it, and are getting no where, :0
Mick
hiya chaps
battery is about 2 months old - still have the reciept for it
even jumped off another running car - it still clicked
been on the phone to Pip tonight and he suggest not even trying to get it running without sorting the clicking out
he doesnt have any N374 ECU\'s but said i should try mine out the TII on it
doesnt matter if i dont try and start it - just see if the clicking stops - he said it wont damage anything
its something else to look at ...
if this does work - then i will be most annoyed - as it was suggested earlier and we have ripped lots of stuff out
i was more worried that it would damage the ECU - but pip is sure that it wont
and he has about 5 spare ones if it does
might not play with it tonight - not sure yet
Stu
Is that a S4 Stu??
nah mate the cab is a S5 ( 1991 ) and the coupe is a S5 (1990 )
Are you sure, as the dash, seats, lights and the inlet manifold, as far as i can see, is all S4
really .. hummm ???!!
was speaking to Pip and he asked how the IC fastened on - and he said that it was an S5
the front bumper is a S5 aswell ?
is there a clear way of telling a S5 from a S4 ??
under the bonnet looks very very similar to mine
im interested in the dash comment - as its identical to the coupe that i have ( and im sure the 88 cab had the same dash aswell )
well this makes it a more interesting thread :D :D
Stu
John, Which pics have you seen? (think Stu needs to update his web page ;))
Stu had a White S4 Vert, this is a Green one that has S5 lights in etc.
Mr Grinder man.
Do you have any recent pics of the engine etc just to make sure its a S5 before you go buying stuff :)
Need more pics, but looking at the engine, the coolant elbow is ali and has a cap... S5 is plastic no cap. The mirrors are black, and most importantly the side mouldings are also black. S5\'s are all colour coded.
That there be a S4
John
Just seen your post, Chris.
Was looking at the White convertable
John
You\'re looking at the wrong one.
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29895
Yep, But you can\'t tell alot from those pics, Ok its the Right year for a S5 and it does have round lights but you can\'t see the Seat type,Dash,Engine??
Would\'nt be the first time a S5 has had a S4 engine put in???
But if i had to lay money on which model it was S5 would be high on the list. :)
My bad...Stu update that damn website!!!!
Green one looks a good old S5! I will try read all this thread, and see if i can help.
John
John, sorry I misled you on the phone! I had S4s on the brain!
you all had me really really really worried then !!
yeah the white one now belongs to turboIInuttah
i will get round to updating the website when i have chance
gonna speak to rxmotors and see if they have a N374 ECU - and have someone else looking for one at rotechnics
if all this fails ... errrr ...... cab for sale ?? LOL
Stu
Stu,
I have managed to cleanup your old ECU, need to test a couple of the components with a meter tonight and make sure they are still within tolerance, but it\'s looking good - if all goes well, I will blow the code from the Knightsports onto a blank Eprom, and pop the ECU in the post tomorrow for you :)
I have also sprayed the board with a silicon coating formulated for electical use. Should provide an additional barrier against moisture problems !:Giggle
prof - can you check what was on the chip ??
does it look ok - or could the chip be at fault and we have carried the problem forward
found some more info on ECU types aswell :
RX7 - FC3S
88 - 91
13BT
N340
rev limit - 7500
manu - Mazda
RX7 - FC3S
88 - 91
13BT
N340
rev limit - None
manu - Mazda
RX7 - FC3S
88 - 91
13BT
N374
rev limit - None
manu - KnightSport
not sure if that helps us or not
from lots of digging around - it would see that a N380 should work just fine as this is Jap/Euro Spec
now the 380 is fitted to UK TII\'s - looks like im ripping mine out the TII !! LOL
Prof : dont send the ECU yet - let me check out the coupe one - if this works - then pip said he has some - if it does work - looks like the Knightsports chip could be at fault
only thing im thinking is when its running on idle - it uses a base map - when you floor it - it switches to the chip for info - now then - tony said it idled fine and when he reved it - it cut out - so based on this wonderful thoery - has the chip gone faulty - he reved it - and blew the chips ( or something else )
its something else to consider i suppose - if the weather holds - might try and get the 380 ecu out of mine tonight - shouldnt be a big job - and the ECU area on the cab is wide open as we have been testing it
2 things can happen
1 - it works - and then we can all sit back and laugh
2 - it doenst - and we havent really lost anything - just proves that the the ECU is A-OK :D
Stu
see ECU list in the sticky - that where im getting the above info from
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30007#Q3
trying to get all the info in one place to be honest - and its like my own ref library :D
Stu
Quote from: grinderprof - can you check what was on the chip ??
I can tell you what the checksum is (4 hex digits), and if you can get that info from Knightsports we can confirm that it\'s good from that point of view. I know what when I looked at the hex dump of it, there is a string \'N374\' in the first few bytes, which appears to be an identifier for the platform the chip will work on - meant for human eyes as opposed to being read by the ECU. The fact that I can read that string does suggest the chip is ok, and certainly the Reader/Programmer I have did not report the chip as faulty.
The rom from the N380 had a similar string with - you guessed - \'N380\'.
But it\'s a good avenue to explore.
hummm so we have just put a 374 chip into a 380 ecu - could that really confuse things ??
maybe we should have coded the chip with 380 ???
Stu,
I think those codes are just for human consumption - not for the ECU.
The code in the Eprom is a mixture of instructions and tables (the \'maps\') that define how to respond to given inputs and include the closed loop stuff, fuel mapping tables, and the various limits that are imposed (speed, rev, pressure etc.)
Since the inputs and outputs are virtually the same for both cars, and the main processing unit is the same it stands to reason that the eprom should function in the other ECU. The only question is related to that other large 40 pin chip - but by testing with your repaired N374, you will have covered all bases.
I still think you may have a wiring fault elsewhere in the car - need to verify your voltages to the ECU are good.
BTW - both the coils and injectors are fed from one line of the Main relay, and the ECU is from the other line, both via fuses.
funny you should say that :
just been on the phone to rx motors
ecu - couple of hundred quid - ouch
told him the problem and he went
"yeah , thats bad earth " " your headlights will go next "
told him that they had stopped aswell - he just laughed and said that i need to check the wiring
told him about the 9v at the battery - he still laughed - yeah its a bad earth
humm could get interesting now !!
Stu
who was that Tim, Matt or Ian? I still have a working N380 if you need it?
that was Matt - he reckons that you should have your car done well before XMAS aswell :D :D
LOL
Stu
REALLY??? That\'s earlier that I expected (hmmmm need to find £5k then! :eek )
HOW MUCH
so anyone have any idea where i should start then :D
Stu
:Giggle the wiring loom.
sorry mate i couldn\'t resist, but i would say it would be a main one to stop so much working.
matt
Did someone mention a bad earth....
Check around the battery, you may of left one of,
humm around that battery is fine - might have an hour having a look :D
no idea what im looking for - but i like a challenge :D
Every wire you find screwed to the body of the car or main earth strap to the engine undo and make sure there is good contact, even test the wire to make sure its not broken or damaged.
Make 100% sure the ecu is earthed realy well and the engine has a good earth.
I think somebody on this thread did mention a bad earth,but NO attention was given......hope he says I told you so !!!!!!!!!!!!:rollin :rollin :evillaugh :Giggle :2eek :chat :cool :cheers
I would guess - start with what you do know:
1) Power feed to the injectors and Coils - good - because it\'s flooding the car with heaps of pretrol and your getting a spark. What you don\'t know is are the injectors grounding out somewherer - they should be pulled to ground through a transistor in the ECU - so if any of the wires to the inejectors looks a little gash - consider sleeving it. You also know you have a bum spark plug,
2) Check the voltages on 1a and 1b on the ECU are good - you should get 12v on 1a all the time, and 12v on 1b when the key is in the IGN or Start positions.
3) 2i on the ECU should have 5V on it - it is used by the temp sensors (intake air, water), pressure sensor, TPS, Airflow and temp sensor unit and the MOP sensor.
4) The ECU (1b) and all the solenoids take their 12V from the Main relay. If the voltage on this line is loaded because of a short it may cause the ECU voltage to fluctuate and cause the chatter on the relays / solenoids
5) The knock and Oxygen sensors have only a single wire connection to the ECU - but they have screened cables - this screen should be Earthed. However, neither of these are used in starting the car.
6) There should be nothing plugged into the Yellow check connector near the Drivers side shock tower - this is for priming the fuel system - it will flow fuel if there is anything connecting these wires together !!
Quote from: GrizzlyEvery wire you find screwed to the body of the car or main earth strap to the engine undo and make sure there is good contact, even test the wire to make sure its not broken or damaged.
Make 100% sure the ecu is earthed realy well and the engine has a good earth.
Grizz...I had that prob once..the earth cable from the battery had a \'break\' in it......interrmittant prob.Chased my tail for weeks on end.........good point made there bud,can save you weeks worth of probs :cheers :guinness
hiya chaps
been on the phone to allan for 55 mins so not really worked on the car :D
thoughts and ideas at the mo
1 - take the ecu out of the coupe and try it in the car - this is a quick and easy test and will prove weather or not the ecu is at fault
2 - the main relay ( up by the coil ) this tests OK when we checked it - apply power and it clicks - remove power and it clicks off
3 - when all the clicking starts - this does NOT click - it clicks on and then off ( with the key ) - so we can assume this is working correctly
4 - what we dont know - is it putting 12v ?
5 - there is a pin on the ecu that should get 12v at cranking - this is only getting 9.7 - BUT the clicking starts before the cranking - so cant see this being an issue ( YET )
6 - as rxmotors said - prob a bad earth - tie in the with lights not moving
7 - prob is - where to find it - is it a bad body earth or a break in the loom somewhere
8 - starter is working fine - so looks like the battery side of it it OK
9 - i have checked the engine for an earth by putting a jump lead from negative terminal to lots of places on the engine - still clicking
10 - nothing plugged into any check connectors - checked this tonight
11 - how do you check a wire for a good earth ?? ( i assume you need to find the start and end of it - thats prob not that simple )
12 - does anyone know the sequence that things are powered up ?? ( i know the main relay is OK - does this mean the problem lies further down the chain )
13 - it has been suggested dont even try and start the car with all the clicking ( so just getting stuff for when it is ready to fire )
14 - ECU earth has been checked - belled it thru back to the battery - and its fine
thats the state of play at this moment intime - i must admit if i knew it was gonna be this bad - i wouldnt have touched this car with a barge pole !! :(
Stu
Quote11 - how do you check a wire for a good earth ?? ( i assume you need to find the start and end of it - thats prob not that simple )
Get a bulb, put one wire onto pos of battery, and the other onto the earth wire you are checking, it should light up if the earth is OK
Mick
oohhh i like it Mick - i have just the thing in the garage :D
something else to check before i rip the entire loom out :D
cheers
Just had a brain fart stu !
You can check to see how much the injectors are firing using a wee bulb as well. Since the ECU outputs for the injectors are basically just being grounded when the injector is being told to fire, you can check if these are responsible for some of the clicking, by carefully removing the connectors, and jumpering your bulb across the plug instead.
If the light flashes strongly, then the injector duty cycle is high.
For Cranking, the Secondaries should be off, and the primaries should be getting 50-70% duty cycle to get the engine started (rich), which settles down to a much lower duty cycle when the engine is running.
Until you crank, neither primary or secondary injectors should be firing.
can i meter this at the ECU ??
and mick - does the battery need to be connected correctly to test with a bulb ?
Should be able to - basically the injectors are quite low impedance, so when the transistor that fires the injector is off, the voltage seen at the injector drive pins will be 12V, when the injector fires, the voltage drops to nearly 0V.
The reason for using a bulb, is that you can get a much better idea of duty cycle - i.e. how much on versus off time, meters are not very good at providing that kind of display, but a bulb will vary in brightness with the duty cycle.
Just a side piccy of your ECU Stu - shows the depth of water that this baby was sat in at one point !
Clearly a lot of the lower analog board was submerged !:guinness
BTW Stu - I had to replace one diode on the board - the leg had been eaten away - it was the +12v feed to 1a on the ECU - which makes sense, as this would always be connected, even if the ingition was off. The leg was probably eaten away by electrolysis, as there was no sign of it anywhere. Luckily most of the board and components survived the deep wash cycle !
never noticed that when i took it out :D
thats a lot of water LOL
Stu
injectors work on negative pulse - u wont be able to see it on a standard mulitimeter.
Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHinjectors work on negative pulse - u wont be able to see it on a standard mulitimeter.
Will too - if you are measuring the sigal coming out of the ECU, and have not unplugged the wire harness, then the injector output will be \'floating\' up to 12V through the low resistance of the injector itself, and will be brought down to ground when the injector is fired.
If you try and measure it with the plug out, then you are correct - you wont see any voltage to measure.
the problem with that is trying to get a meter in to the back of the plug - not that easy based on ( 1) its a tight fit (2) the angle of the ecu
more things to check ... :(
I spoke to our Auto Electrican at work today and he seemed to thing Fuse Box\'s often cause theses sorts of Problems but its more likly to have Poor power or Lack of power all together (dry joints etc)
TBH i don\'t know about this i don\'t recall alot of engine Stuff in the Fuse box, but he said there\'s see\'s loads of faults like this on older cars so its just some thing else to look at. Plus he knows alot more than me about Wiring faults in cars..
Have you seen this?
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30821
Watch the Vid, That would be a Mint Deflood trick. Just do the air line Bit at the end and it will dry it all out ;)
What thread is the sparkpugs ??? I can supply the compresser if you want to have a try. Will chat about it tommorrow !
Shaun
I got a set of Noid lights stu, which will tell you if injector is getting power.
too much stuff to think about ... aaarrrggghhhh
Quote from: shaunwilWhat thread is the sparkpugs ??? I can supply the compresser if you want to have a try. Will chat about it tommorrow !
Shaun
It looks like he\'s using the Extention from a Snap on Comp Gauge.
Quote from: MobilemickI got a set of Noid lights stu, which will tell you if injector is getting power.
I think there getting power (its flooded), its more important when there getting power and for how long.
did you have a look at the contacts on the relays?
BUY AN OL SCHOOL CABBIE,NO **** WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH,THROW THE COMPUTORS AND INJECTORS......:evillaugh :cool :rollin
just thought that a few times when i have gone to start the fc and theres a poor battery it doesnt turn instead i hear a very fast clicking noise.
id look into making lots of new earths, go buy some wires earth the battery everywhere. and then see what happens.
have a look at this link chief,
http://www.rx7club.com/archive/index.php/t-199558.html
Nas matey - i like it - i like it a lot - need to see if the pics still work - but its sounding good :D
i have put a post on the rx7club forum asking for where all the NORMAL grounds should be - just waiting for an answer now - but that certainly good reading :D
just need to get some wire - will any stuff do - they go on about gauges of wire - but to be honest - i have no idea what it means :D
Stu
Grinder - i google bashed it heh. :Typing
yeh they just mean you need some meaty wire bro, some of the good stuff. :rollin
sorry im jumpin in a bit late on this thread son, trust me if theres one thing i learnt when doing my conversion its always something simple thats knackered.
QuoteI think there getting power (its flooded), its more important when there getting power and for how long
??? if they arent getting power it will flood ?
did you check around the battery Stu, may be a small earth wire trapped under battery and not connected
Mick
battery is in the garage and the tray is out - no loose wires down there
rx7club came up with some diagrams where the earths are - so need to trace these eventually
soooo many things to check now :(
Stu
wouldn\'t mind a copy of the earth locations chap !
Also, did that ECU arrive ?
ECU just arrived matey
is there any thing i need to do - apart from swap that extra thing on the side ?
will sort you the postage out when i get 10 mins :D
Stu
prof : http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=586921
Quote from: grinderis there any thing i need to do - apart from swap that extra thing on the side ?
No just the dongle - the ROM chip has a copy of what I took off the Knightstports chip - like for like - so it should be just a drop in!
Quote from: Mobilemick??? if they arent getting power it will flood ?
Sorry wrong way round if there is power all the time they will flood. If its flooded then its getting power you just need to know how long they are powered? or the wrong timing etc
like i already said they are powered consantly with a +12 they work on a negative pulse you see - they only fire when they get a negative.
Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHlike i already said they are powered consantly with a +12 they work on a negative pulse you see - they only fire when they get a negative.
What he said - they take the +12V through the main relay, on the same line as the coils - since you are getting sparks - except on a dodgy plug, and you are getting fuel - it\'s flooding - it\'s safe to say the circuit is good. What needs checking is how much time they are on - when the switch is set to IGN, but the engine isn\'t cranked, the Injectors should be off and defo not clicking. It they are firing, then the loom may have a short to ground.
A bad ground to the ECU or the sensors is more likely to cause the relay chatter problem.
Sorry did\'nt make myself clear.
not had chance to play today and might not get too long with it tomorrow - i will test the ECU tomorrow and then start looking for earths ( now that should be fun !! )
Stu
even chaps :D :D
how are we today ??
had another few hrs on the car tonight ( i bet my elec will will be HUGE )
not much to report really - still doesnt run though !! LOL
checked the ac relay at the front - this clicks on and off as it should ( when its off the car )
check the main relay again in the top corner - this is OK - now then - the interesinting bit here is that when you remove that from the car and put the key in - the relays click - but thats it ... just click once and then silence ( this is prob cause this supplys them with the power )
add this back in and they all click like mad :(
checked the BAC valve wiring - and this seems to be earthing OK around various parts of the engine ( so that looks like the eath is ok )
the ac relay thing earth is OK aswell - as this beeps thru with various earthing points
we had a look at the ECU wiring .. crickey there is a lot of wires in there isnt there ... looks OK though - but a bit of rust dust ( if that makes sense )
so we are still not 100% sure what we are looking for
the main stuff seems to earth OK - so why the clicking ??
the only thing we can think of ( and probably said this 1000\'s of times ) - the stuff that clicks seems to be on the side of the ECU outputs - so is the ecu clicking them on and off
we are also struggling to find some components - but i have forgotten their names !! LOL
the clicking happens in all auto positions - so not sure if this is an indication of a problem ?? ( again cant think exactly what i tried it in )
but it still clicks prior to cranking - so what is the ecu doing ( or the relays and stuff ) prior to being cranked ??
not tied the ecu that prof sent back - if i get 1hr on monday night i might pull the ecu out the coupe just to really rule that out of the equation
apart from all this im still open to suggestions :D
Stu
Does it have some kind of immobiliser on it stu? It maybe something as simple as it needing to be reset.
A bit of a Guess but could the Ign switch be faulty?
The other thing i was thinking, if there has been that much water in the car to put a water mark up the side of the ECU has it been in a Flood etc?
we sure the plugs are ok and not rusted to hell?
im really suprised you havent tried the ecu from the coupe!??
theres a short circuit somewhere. id try a different ecu
Quote from: grindereven chaps :D :D
how are we today ??
not tied the ecu that prof sent back - if i get 1hr on monday night i might pull the ecu out the coupe just to really rule that out of the equation
apart from all this im still open to suggestions :D
Stu
Not tried your original one Stu ? I would give that one a go, a least that rules out any funnyness with the different ECU models.
Still think there must be a wiring fault somewhere.
As far as I know, the ECU will do some sort of self test and check the inputs/outputs each time you switch on - it\'s possible this test is going wrong :2eek
thats what i was thinking prof - its like its just hammering them to get some sort of feedback from them
im slowly getting very intimate with this car :D
how would an ECU test go wrong though - unless this is down to a bad earth somewhere
we are looking at starting again just with the ECU pin out diagram and working it a section at a time
ignition ... hummm you could be right - but my mate is convinced that we are OK on that side
its great when you have a problem no one has come accross EVER !! LOL
more ideas welcomed :D
Stu
thats what i was thinking prof - its like its just hammering them to get some sort of feedback from them
im slowly getting very intimate with this car :D
how would an ECU test go wrong though - unless this is down to a bad earth somewhere
we are looking at starting again just with the ECU pin out diagram and working it a section at a time
ignition ... hummm you could be right - but my mate is convinced that we are OK on that side
its great when you have a problem no one has come accross EVER !! LOL
more ideas welcomed :D
Stu
You only need to hit the Button Once Matey ;)
yeah cheers chris !! LOL
the t\'internet at work is always playing up - so its a bit of a random draw if it posts or not !! :D
Stu
Still not got it started? Can\'t believe your luck, thing is it\'ll be something really small and really stupid, once it\'s found you\'ll be sorted... Once it\'s found that is...
Did i see you this morning? In the Rover?
Yeah i was in the rover today
didnt see you - where was you
and yeah once its running it will be down to something silly
been reading up about the earths and the resistance of them - its getting techincal now though :D
Stu
:( this still going? no luck replacing the plugs with the ones from ym car then ? :(
jit - still no sign of the plugs matey
not had chance to rip out the ECU of the coupe yet - but im convinced that it wont help
im sure its a bad earth - but then again it might not be !! LOL
its all fun and games - need to get another hr or so tonight on it - gonna rip the air box out and see whats underneath that ( must be an earth around there somewhere !! )
Stu
huh? no sign??! WTF?! I posted those myself!!! err....then i dont know where they are?!!! I just stuck em in a normal padded envelope...with stamps....
hopefully theyre just late!
hummm im sure they will turn up - and no card thru the door saying that there wasnt enough postage or anything like that
humm very strange ??
unplugged even more relays and took fuses out and checked my battery, (only 1 earth going to it). and it still doesnt do any clicking noises.
Sorry Stu
Mick
Quote from: Mobilemickunplugged even more relays and took fuses out and checked my battery, (only 1 earth going to it). and it still doesnt do any clicking noises.
Sorry Stu
Mick
Am i missing some thing here? you unplugged the Relays and it does\'nt make a Clicking noise???
O K !!!!!!
Quote from: one2watchhuh? no sign??! WTF?! I posted those myself!!! err....then i dont know where they are?!!! I just stuck em in a normal padded envelope...with stamps....
hopefully theyre just late!
Its the season for Missing and late mail, Its happening alot too me at the Moment.
QuoteAm i missing some thing here? you unplugged the Relays and it does\'nt make a Clicking noise???
O K !!!!!!
Sorry Grizzly, i was trying to reproduce the clicking what stu is having problems with on is Vert
Quote from: MobilemickSorry Grizzly, i was trying to reproduce the clicking what stu is having problems with on is Vert
Correct me if i\'m wrong but if you unplug the relays they wont click?
Stu have you tried putting the Vert ECU on the Coupe and see if that Clicks with the Ign on.
not yet chaps :(
not had the time and the weather isnt playing with car weather ( esp at night at the moment )
its something i really really need to do
i still think its a bad earth somewhere - but the ecu swap should prove a point
Mick - i dont think pulling relays will make a difference to be honest - you would need to do something a bit more drastic (A) pour water into the ECU (B) randomly remove some earth points :D !! LOL
Stu
Saw you again this morning, just going over the cross roads on Pall Mall just up from the Petrol Station...
Pretty sure you didn\'t see me wave, next time i\'ll be flashing lights! lol
Guessing that time on a morning aint your most observant?
:burnout
Know what you mean about the weather it\'s bloody awful!
ahhhh defo not me then matey
i go towards wigan from my house
what time was this ???
I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read about a happy ending to this.... good luck with it grinder !!
Sorry I cant be any help to you.
nah its fine matey - im sure that ONE day this thread will have a happy ending :D
Stu
QuoteMick - i dont think pulling relays will make a difference to be honest
Some relays actually power other relays Stu, thought, i`d unplug everything i could, will undo some earths tommorow, and see if it makes anything click :)
you can just come to mine and have a listen if you really want !! LOL
if you can find the earths then i would LOVE to know where they are :D
actaully you can test something for me if you want - there are two realays at the front ( near the washer bottle - unplug them and see what happens ) :D
one should stop the headlights working - the other is the dimmer relay and should stop the dash lights working - thing is i dont know which one is which :D :D
Stu
That explains you not waving back then :driving :WaveBye :Hammer :rollin
It looked just like you though, right down to the fag in the gob :Laugh :bandit
Oh well nevermind :wiggle
I got 4 relays behind the front grill, will look for the ones near the washer bottle,
Next time im up chorley, i`ll call in, (i`ll ring first)
Quote from: FLAT4MATTIt looked just like you though, right down to the fag in the gob :Laugh :bandit
I presume you mean cigarette?:Laugh Or is there something oyu\'re not telling us grinder? :rollin
I\'m sure we will get the bugger running this w/end mate :)
Fag, Bugger, wtf lol
Stu, I was just thinking, If you got a Multi meter with a Long neg wire can\'t you hook it up to the Battery (so its a reay good conection) then set it to Ohms and go around Touching things like ECU, Body shell, Engine etc and see if you get more Resistance in things (will tell you how good the earths are).
I still think you need to do a Bit more messing with the ECU before you write it off as not the Problem. I\'d still be very tempted to swap the ECU\'s over (Coupe on the Vert and try then Vert on the Coupe and try) they don\'t have to be bolted in properly just make sure they are well Grounded. Quick way of finding out for sure though...
Did you ever get a Fault code off it?
Yes i meant cigarette, wasn\'t implying that stu dabbles in any funny business :spank :Ladys-man :spank
:eek:
Sorry couldn\'t resist....
This smilie does NOT GET USED ENOUGH
:spank :spank :spank :spank :spank
:Laugh
Anyway where were we, swapping ECU\'s and checking earthing points, ahem...
hiya chaps
had ANOTHER look last night
i know what you mean about the resistance in the wires - thing is - they are all coming out good - so that poses a problem
found 2 earths so far - one by the trailing coil and one neear the drivers head light - these have been cleaned up and put back on
still no difference
so then we ran a set of jump leads from the NEG terminal to these earths - still no difference - so we tried various places around the engine - still no difference
we then disconnect the AFM ( removal of airbox ) , the BAV valve plug , the AC plug and the fuel pump and resistor ( under air box ) and the injectors are STILL firing - and we have now found out that the primaries and secondaries are both firing
we are NOT ruling out the ECU - this will be swapped and tested - at least we can rule out a big chunk then
any more ideas are welcomed :D
Stu
Mick - those are the relays im talking about the 4 - should be headlights , dimmer , AC and something else
Stu,
If the Injectors are firing BEFORE you crank the engine this is bad !! :eek
There should be no injector action until the engine is cranked / running.
This might be a wiring fault on the injector harness itself - it\'s possibly shorted out to ground somewhere, or getting a negative going signal that\'s pulsing. The left most plug on the ECU (as the connectors face you) carries the injector signals - if you unplug that and it stops - then it kind of points the finger at the ECU - that\'s not 100%, as the pulsing signal that might be shorting the injectors may also be coming from the ECU.
Have you tried taking a negative feed straight from the battery -ve terminal to the black wire with the eye washer on it that provides the ECU earth signal ?
Next question would then be what ECU have you got in there at the moment ? The N380 with knightsports chip, or your original N374 ?
thats right prof - they are firing before it is cranked - hence the amazing amount of fuel its getting !! LOL
its currently got the N380 ecu in it with the KS chip
really need to get the one out the coupe just to remove the ecu from the equation
we have tried a feed from the ECU earth to the battery - and still this doesnt help - although i can test this again when im messing with the ecu ( im sure we have tried this just not 100% sure !! LOL )
i need to make a complete list of what has been tested and what hasnt
stu
Quotethats right prof - they are firing before it is cranked
u sure stu ?
How are u testing them to see if they are firing,
Mick
OK im not 100% sure - but if you get your hand to them - you can feel "something " pulsing or firing
and "idiot hat on" how can that much fuel get into the engine if the injectors arent firing ??
Stu
dude check the crank angle sensor that is what fires the injectors.
Crank angle sensor SHOULD only work, if engine is cranking,
thought the relay for the headlights Stu, its the one closest to the drivers headlight, and i wrote the pin out down for u to check, :)
Mick
the CAS has been checked and OHM\'s out OK - although it could be a bad earth - need to check this AGAIN !!
found me a N374 ecu aswell - only down side - its in aus !! LOL
Stu
got pin out for the light relay
good man - just incase :D
i reckon i have printed over 200 sheets out with all sorts of stuff on it :D
im off work tomorrow ( fri ) so might try and get the ECU out the coupe and try that
Stu
not the cheapest thing :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAZDA-RX-7-FC3S-ECU-JDM_W0QQitemZ320039449468QQihZ011QQcategoryZ36631QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
postage 21quid, blimey are they delivering it on horseback ???
Hope you get it going, did you need any plugs still ??
Shaun
oops its in japan :spank
Shaun
Quote from: grindernot the cheapest thing :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAZDA-RX-7-FC3S-ECU-JDM_W0QQitemZ320039449468QQihZ011QQcategoryZ36631QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAZDA-RX-7-FC3S-ECU-JDM_W0QQitemZ320039449468QQihZ011QQcategoryZ36631QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Just don\'t say the place name out loud - could not have been made up better if you tried ! :Giggle :Giggle
u aint buying it are u stu ??
im not buying it no - not at that price
esp when we dont know if it will fix the problem !!
Stu - which ECU\'s have you tried in the car, since I sent the N374 one back ?
It might be useful to know what tests you have made with what ECU - maybe draw up a table, and repeat the same set of tests on the 3 ECU\'s you have access to:
Original N374 with Knightsports chip
N380 with Knightsports chip
ECU from your coupe
Would also be useful if you could unplug the connector from a primary and secondary injector and stick a bulb on it - then we can see if the injectors really are being pulsed.
hiya chaps :D
i havent tried any ecu yet apart from the N380 with the chip
i need to get the one out the coupe and try that
problems are
1 - i feel like death warmed up
2 - its throwing it down up here
3 - i think that covers me !! LOL
but so far we have
1 - orig ecu - clicking
2 - n380 with copied chip - clicking
so i need to get the one out the coupe and try that , aswell as the n374 that you fixed - this will narrow it down even more
i have found a stock n374 ecu - but its in aus - just waiting for a shipping quote
i would love to check the injectors - but they really dont look easy to get to !! LOL
Stu
Quote from: grinderi would love to check the injectors - but they really dont look easy to get to !! LOL
Stu
Yep - was thinking about that - they are under the UIM - which means taking off the interwarmer and the UIM - plus all the wee pipes around there that won\'t move freely.
Another approach might be this:
Get a needle or some long thin metalic probe - and slide this into the back of the plug going into the ECU on each of the 4 injector outputs :
3W - Front Primary
3X - Front Secondary
3Y - Rear Primary
3Z - Rear Secondary
These are the last 4 contacts on the left connector :
+----+----+--
| 3Y | 3W |
+----+----+--
| 3Z | 3X |
+----+----+--
connect a 12V led between the probe and a +12v supply. Led on - injector is firing.
this should tell you a bit more
im assume i can check this with a meter aswell ???
yeah u can stu, red lead 12 volts, black lead to pin coming out of ECU :)
but it might not be quick enough using a digital one.
Mick
Do I need to get my spanners out Stu? Heading up to Wolves at 5am tomorrow, so give me a txt around 10am and I may be in a position to come over :)
Mick - i was thinking that to be honest
Brett - i have no probs with you coming - but not sure what we would beable to achieve - unless you want to come and point and laugh ??
Stu
Even if I point and laugh, at least it would be something :rollin
We could laugh together Brett lol
Mazdarotaryclub.com, bringing people together. (Moonwrap will come too, so thats at least 4 members laughing - who ever said the internet was a bad thing?)
So are you any further on?
Have you swaped the Ecu\'s yet???? The suspence is killing me :)
hiya chaps - progress made so far - NONE
still feeling a bit rough - and i think the better half will KILL me if i mention playing outside
ALTHOUGH - i have a guy in AUS getting me some shipping quotes on a know WORKING N374 ecu - i reckon i can get it to my door for about £30 - £35
so thats one avenue :D
as i have said - not tried the TII one for fear of death :D
still not sure if the ECU will sort it - i have doubt in the back of my mind - but it should at least narrow the search to something else
the car is looking pretty sorry for its self at the moment - no clocks , lots of wires around , no plugs or leads , no air box , no fuel relay etc.. :D
been trying to sort out the insurance on the TII with adding all the toys i have bought - so if the cab takes a while longer - i might beable to get the TII sorted
i have come to the conclusion that this will NOT be a simple fix - so the urgency is slightly out the way :D
if i get chance during the week i will pull the TII ecu and try that - it should only take an hour i reckon
at the moment i need to spend time with Elisabeth - so the car is on a back burner ( well thats the theory thats been hammered home by the better half !! )
Stu
Figured me remote start out stu, i connected the CDL output to a relay and it cranks over for 3.5 secs now, and then starts, :)
Mick
hummm so mine wont run - and yours will start off a key fob - no fair !! LOL
not had much of an update recently - so here goes ( you will like this )
not looked at the car for a good few days - been feeling pretty lousy - so the car isnt high on the list of stuff to do
on the other hand - i have a WORKING N374 stock ECU in the post from AUS - just not sure how long it will take ???
another good thing is that i have spoken to my insurance for the TII and to add :
vented headlight cover
different wing mirrors
rear strut brace
front lower brace
FMIC ( Custom Made )
cat back exhaust ( Single Exit Exhaust )
full coil overs ( Fully ajustable coilovers - Protech shocks with Eibach springs and camber/caster ajustment pillow top mounts )
Different Alloys
is gonna cost me that grand total price of £0.00 :D
Happy days eh
Stu
Lovely, so when are we fitting the bits ?????
Shaun
Who\'s your insurer ?
the insurance is heritage - they have been very good to me so far
and shaun - when im feeling better and just need to work out what to fit first ( i think suspension will be the first thing or maybe the exhaust or maybe ... LOL )
Stu
Ahh you see the Advantages of getting old :)
Quote from: MobilemickFigured me remote start out stu, i connected the CDL output to a relay and it cranks over for 3.5 secs now, and then starts, :)
Mick
We have a V plated M5 in work at the Moment with a Remote start, its quite amusing becouse the car starts on the first click and the Starter keeps going for a second or so (makes one ungodlly Noise) its great :)
Quote from: GrizzlyAhh you see the Advantages of getting old :)
hummm not sure age has anything to do with adding bits ??
either way - im a happy bunny
like i said - need to work out what to fit first , and have a read up about fitting coil overs - as i dont know how or when to set them :D
Funny you should say that, i had a simalar chat with the Girl i bought my Fd\'s Insurance from, She told me "they take more notice of Performance mods if you are under 25" Plus i supose you haven\'t realy done anything to make it more Powerfull?? I mean they see Mods as a % increase in Power so if you had fitted mods that increased the HP by 25% then i think you may have felt it.
yeah thats right chris - they wont make mega BHP - i suppose if i asked about a bigger turbo and the such like - then yeah i can picture an increase in premium
i think aswell - i left the value of the car alone - so in their eyes - it wont cost them a penny more if it gets nicked
QuoteWe have a V plated M5 in work at the Moment with a Remote start, its quite amusing becouse the car starts on the first click and the Starter keeps going for a second or so (makes one ungodlly Noise) its great
snap, my remote start does that, the rx starts after 3 secs, but the alarm cranks for 3.5 secs :) so u can just hear it grind the starter a little.
Only way i could get it to crank and start.
The remote start what is built into the alarm, only cranks for 1 sec, stops, then cranks for 2 secs, Etc... so iyt sounding naff
you got it insured yet mick ??
yup all done, gonna tax it 1st november :)
Wonder how much me tax will be ,if i tell em its a 652cc rofl
hummm should be taxed as £95 a year or summat like that :D - nice and cheap
Depends whats on your log book Mick.
Iam in the process of trying to change mine from a 2.4cc to a 1308cc with the help of an origional sales booklet which shows as 1308cc. should bring the price down by about £50 i hope. If you want a copy of the page in the book i could fax or post it to you?
Grant.
Grant - im really tempted to try aswell
i have printed loads of stuff off mazda\'s website about the history - and all the way thru it proves thats they only made them in 2*654 configs
its worth a try for the price of a stamp :D
Stu
i\'d be interested to get the cheaper tax
this is turning into one hell of a thread
1 - car wont run
2 - remote starts working
3 - toys to fit to the TII
4 - cheaper tax
LOL :D :D :D
Yeah - back on topic !
So what\'s the latest Stu ?
to be honest nothing Dave
just awaiting the ECU from AUS - then i can start work again
i would like to rule out the KS chip - just incase thats at fault
if it still clicks with the orig N374 ECU - then its back to checking wiring
the lad reckoned between 6 - 10 days - so i reckon by a week sat i should have a better idea whats going on !
Stu
Stu and Tony
if you want to PM me your address i\'ll stick a copy in the post, but it may be jumping the gun a bit as i have not heard back from the DVLA yet?
Quote from: grinderthe insurance is heritage - they have been very good to me so far
Stu
Have you changed from Footman James then for both RX\'s Stu? (I know they\'ve never been keen on potential mods...)
Lynn
:wave
Quote from: MoonwrapHave you changed from Footman James then for both RX\'s Stu? (I know they\'ve never been keen on potential mods...)
Lynn
:wave
hiya stanger :D
yeah i moved away from footman james - purely down to the mods that they wouldnt allow me to add
they were superb with non-modded cars though
no idea who i will insure the cab with - thats the down side to heratige - you cant have a 2 car policy :(
Stu
Quote from: grinderhiya stanger :D
yeah i moved away from footman james - purely down to the mods that they wouldnt allow me to add
they were superb with non-modded cars though
no idea who i will insure the cab with - thats the down side to heratige - you cant have a 2 car policy :(
Stu
Boo! :D
I guess the cab\'s a bit too modified for FJ too :(
Yes I love those add an extra RX7 quotes of £25.00 for a whole year! :) But then I\'d just keep buying RX7\'s if I had anywhere to put them! ;)
Lynn
the cab - hummm not sure - it might not be
if i insure it the only aftermarket things will be
1 - wheels
2 - front strut brace
and thats about it really :D
just need to find a set of stock 15 inch cab wheels now .. now who do i know who has some .. hummmm :D
i missed some on ebay a bit back - went for about £40 but there were bloosy miles from me - so didnt bother with them
Stu
Quote from: grinderjust need to find a set of stock 15 inch cab wheels now .. now who do i know who has some .. hummmm :D
i missed some on ebay a bit back - went for about £40 but there were bloosy miles from me - so didnt bother with them
Stu
The set just north of Necastle upon Tyne by any chance? :)
yeah them were the ones !!
getting this back on track
just had a text from the girl friend - i have a parcel at home from Aus :D
looks like my ecu is here
not bad at all - a week to get here :D
got quoted between 200 and 350 for the ecu from some UK tuners - this cost me £27.45 - thats the ECU AND delivery - how cheap is that
just hope this fixes it - if not then its something to narrow down at least :D
Stu
Is\'nt the Curiosity Killing you:xconfused
You know you want to get that torch out and have a Play :yes
Hmm its all gone quiet, I assume its running then? :D
had about 3 hrs on the car
GOOD NEWS - clicking has stopped :D :D
BAD NEWS - wont fduking run :( - battery is on charge - getting some juice for it tomorrow - and im begging shaun to lend me some plugs
so thats the state of play really - its soooooooooooo close to starting - its coughing every so often - but wont fire :(
got to be something simple now
pity we ripped the car apart to find a £30 ECU could fix it !! LOL
headlights still wont work though :(
Stu
Quote from: grinderhad about 3 hrs on the car
GOOD NEWS - clicking has stopped :D :D
BAD NEWS - wont fduking run :( - battery is on charge - getting some juice for it tomorrow - and im begging shaun to lend me some plugs
so thats the state of play really - its soooooooooooo close to starting - its coughing every so often - but wont fire :(
got to be something simple now
pity we ripped the car apart to find a £30 ECU could fix it !! LOL
headlights still wont work though :(
Stu
So that means both the knightsports boys are duffers then !?
So you see the light at the end of the Tunnel then :yes
Did you take the Plugs out????? I bet if you do the Flooded thing again you\'ll have more Joy now.
hiya chaps
yeah the KS chips looks duff - but you cant be 100% sure
yeah we flooded it again trying to start the thing
plugs are out at the mo - and battery is on charge - will try it again tonight
need to get my hands on some plugs - so sent a few PM\'s for assistance
im sure it will run !!
headlights still dont work - but i suppose thats a small thing if i can get it to run
will keep you all posted
Prof : i cant believe whats happened .. i left a reply on your thread !
Im dropping some plugs off in about an hr so hopefully it will get going tonight !
Shaun
fingers crossed works hell of a lot of effort from you without torching it in desparation and great support from members to get it going
Shows how good this club is :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup!
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwilShows how good this club is :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup!
Shaun
spot on Shaun
Just got off of the phone with the tight one, shes a runner!
:cheers Well done Stu and everyone who helped him :D
Be prepared for the begging letters/insulting small offers for TII spares to start coming in again when he goes for an MOT....
:wave
So what was the problem, something silly?
Kevin
yeah, Well done stu :)
Well the ecu stopped the clicking, and plugs were knackered. ?
Sure Stu will explain more
Yep - nice one stu - perhaps it was the \'spirit\' of old rixy departing my motor and breathing life into yours ! - LOL
Be good to hear the last installment - could there have been 2 dodgy ECU\'s ?
:Thumbsup!
So did ya get the Buzz when it Kicked up :yes
So now you have a RUNNING Vert whats left on the MOT to do list????
hiya chaps
bloody hell brett - thats a quick update
looks like the ECU\'s were shot at
put the ECU in last night , put the battery on charge - shaun dropped me some plugs off at dinner ( i owe you one for them matey - tell me how much you want for the 4 and you can have the other 4 back )
came home tonight - put in plugs - added a gallon of V-Power juice , took battery of charge
paused for tea
went out - called for my mate who has prob spent 30 hrs or so with me - and we decided to try it
both looked at each other with fear in our eye - we had worked out that it would either work or it wouldnt
key in , turned her on , silence ( always a good sign ) - i gave the READY command - my mate nodded and away i cranked
engine turned about 3 times tops and she breathed into life ( this was without touching the "go faster" pedal )
she instantly settled down to 700 rpm , quickly thru the mobile to see whos name started with "RX7" got thru to brett and shaun to pass on the good news ( i think i got thru to shaun ?? )
car was smoking like hell - prob the gallon of juice in the exhaust
left her ticking over for a good 20 mins - nice steady idle
feeling brave so shut her off
waited 10 seconds and fired her up again - first touch and settles to 700 rpm
she revs smooth and sounds great ( so much nicer than mine )
has a look around - got a ABS light on - so thats a prob - headlights wont work and neither does the rear fog - suppose these are minor things ?!?!?
brett said that if the ECU was killed due to the water then odds are so is the ABS ECU
turned the car off again and fired her back up - same again - settled at 700 rpm and sounds great - left her for another 10 mins before we packed in for the night :D
plan is now - abs and headlights - then sort out the rest
so a big thanks goes to everyone who has read and inputted on this thread
turns out that a £30 ECU can solve a multitude of probs
i owe you all soooo much for keeping me going with this project , i cant thank you all enough :D :D
Stu
just spotted the thread title change - will have a stab in the dark to thank brett for that :D
Congratulations!
Quote from: KronCongratulations!
cheers matey
not bad at all , a 12 page thread to get a car running :D
told you that you will get there and feel good at the end... well done mr T11 expert...how do you feel now????:Party
Brilliant news well done stu and all the brains on MRC :Party time for you
A W E S O M E !!!!!!
Finally got our happy ending to this thread !!
Well done to all those who helped and the one who didn\'t give up !!
:Party :Party :Party :Party :Party
:Thumbsup! :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup! :Thumbsup!
copied the pin out for the headlight relay from mine , ill post it later for ya
Yeah I changed it :)
Just a thought, will Nas have a spare ABS unit knocking around?
Are the bulbs good ?! Just a thaught!:rollin
Quote from: grinderboth looked at each other with fear in our eye - we had worked out that it would either work or it wouldnt
:rollin
lol...no wonder it took so long to fix with you two on it..:p
only joking, :flamed nice to hear it\'s running
Andy
excellent news Stu!
If you can\'t find an ABS unit, just take out the abs fuse - the light goes off then - problem solved (mine doesn\'t have ABS now)
Well done buddy, you did get through to me !!! The old plugs are free to you sir, they wheren\'t any use to me, I\'d swap them out for newer ones !
Cya soon
Shaun
Well done Stu!:Thumbs-up
I asked Brett how excited you were last night after he called you back and he said you were almost speechless with excitement, and were desperate to get off the phone - I bet!
The fun starts now - enjoy! :3gears-rh So glad that you will be cabriolet -ing (at last, after the disappointment with the 1st one too) :D
One of my cab\'s pop-ups has stopped retracting automatically too! :( It\'s getting a bit of a pain if you flash anyone and one stays up :( - at least both of yours will stay up and it wouldn\'t look as daft as mine! ;) LOL
Don\'t know how far you\'ve got with the checking yet? I checked that the motors were actually working first - mine are fine and through a process of elimination suspecting the relay now. I need to get a replacement relay to try... but haven\'t got around to it yet... if you end up using your magical discount powers to obtain a supply there-of let me know! :rollin
Take care
Lynn
:wave
Nice on Stu glad urs is running, i\'m still waiting for a d!!m alternator to turn up
Quote from: MoonwrapOne of my cab\'s pop-ups has stopped retracting automatically too! :( It\'s getting a bit of a pain if you flash anyone and one stays up :( - at least both of yours will stay up and it wouldn\'t look as daft as mine! ;) LOL
I thought they weren\'t suppose to pop up if you just flash people - that\'s why we have FTP (flash to pass) lenses so the headlights can shine through them.
Mine don\'t pop when I flash! :spank
There is a relay and a fuse for the retractor circuit, and the connector to the motor can get corroded as well - check all these - it gets wet around the front ! :Thumbs-up
Looking at the plug,(terminal side)
1 2 3
4 5 6
1.This receives power from the light switch
2.This receives power from the light switch
3.Output from relay to both lights
4.The relay gives a live output when light switch is turned on
5. Output from relay to both lights
There is a round 4 pin plug behind each headlight, unplug passenger one, and headlight stays down, not tried it on drivers side.
QuoteNice on Stu glad urs is running, i\'m still waiting for a d!!m alternator to turn up
Have u tried to get a recon one ?
Been tryin too but cant seem to find one anywhere, have sent the money off for a 2nd hand one over a week ago but still hasnt turned up and cant get hold of the guy, this is the second time this has happened, starting to see red now.
Sorry to hijack your thread Stu
send me the details of what car it is, and i`ll see about getting one
michael.partington1@ntlworld.com
Quote from: ProfI thought they weren\'t suppose to pop up if you just flash people - that\'s why we have FTP (flash to pass) lenses so the headlights can shine through them.
Mine don\'t pop when I flash! :spank
There is a relay and a fuse for the retractor circuit, and the connector to the motor can get corroded as well - check all these - it gets wet around the front ! :Thumbs-up
Mine don\'t either and some bright spark replaced the clear FTP lenses with bits of black perspex! :2Confused
hiya chaps :D
Mick - thanks for the pin out :)
the car lights wont light up apart from side lights ,and the lights are in the DOWN position
they wont flash either - on the Jap spec ( S4 for defo ) when you flashed they raise and then flash
so not sure whats going on there - could be a bad realay or 2 ??
Mark - pulled the abs fuse and the light is still on , on the dash - so not sure how to get around it ??
ideas are welcomed though
off to do some reading about why the lights wont work - but i will keep you all posted :D :D :D
Stu
Stu, If the Lights don\'t work at all check the Fuses then the switch, if the Lights come on but they don\'t pop up you want to check the Relays then the Motors (mine had a problem where they would come on but not Pop up and it turned out the Conections inside the pop up Motors where corroded)
But when i was having Problems every one i spoke to said look at the Lights Switch and see if the Plug at the back is Burnt (this is Comon)
i have tried about 3 light swithces - and none of them will raise the lights
the lights dont come on and dont pop up - so not sure if this is down to the relays at the front
gonna read the FSM and see what it says about checking voltages at the connector - and then test the relays
its all fun and games :D :D :D
Stu
( the fise is OK - i belled it thru and its not blown )
Stu - there are 2 independant circuits for the lights:
The lights circuit itself - which runs from one of the 30A fuses in the engine bay. On the UK spec cars, there is a relay at the front of the car for HI/LO beam, and another relay for lights on/off, and a 3rd for dimmed dip. There is a relay under the glove box for the dip/dim function, and a resistor under the air filter box for the dimmed dip.
Not sure about import cars - suspect that the dip/dim stuff will be missing.
The retractor circuit - There is a relay at the front for driving the headlight retractor motors - these are fed via another 30A fuse in the engine bay. The light motors relay works off the light switch, and also off the retractor/cleaner switch
On the ABS warning light, you may be better taking the bulb out! Won\'t fail an MOT without ABS, but if the warning light is on, it could do (or so I was told)
prof : so thats what that is for ( i have a resistor on the coupe and no idea what it did !! )
i didnt realise there was one under the glove box aswell
just looked at some old pics of the TII Coupe - and that has 7 relays on the front bar - no idea what all them are for !! LOL
on the very - when you put the side lights on , the lights stay down and the FTP has a light built into it
im sure they only raise on main or full beam
and im pretty sure - that when you flash , they raise , flash , drop ( cooooooool !! )
i have printed off some pages from the FSM to see if i can check the relays and such like :D
more fun :D :D :D
Stu
( oh yeah - the retractor switch does nothing either - so that could be an indication of a bad relay )
just been looking at the EPC
the relays are £17 + vat each - WOW thats a lot - from the yank forum - they say that you can use any relay to be honest
the ECU this is the interesting part over £1600 + vat .. crickey !!
i bet to build a rx7 from mazda spares you would be looking at about £200,000 !!
Maplins do automotive relays - they are a couple of quid each - I\'ve used them without any probs
There are some \'joins\' in the wiring loom that runs across the front of the radiator and oil cooler - the water gets in and knackers these - then stuff begins to work oddly or not at all. Try metering the relay hot sides for 12v from the battery via the fuse - it may be that the wire has corroded and can\'t provide enough juice for the motors or lights.
I had to run a hot wire to the relay to get my lights to work for MOT - still need to rip that loom apart at some stage :(
sounds good prof - no idea what it means - but it certainly sounds good
printed out a few pages from the FSM - so might get out with the meter tonight and see what i can come up with :D
it works!!?!! only just saw this!! nice one! bet you must be well relieved and happy!! :)
Just in time for wet roundabout season too!! although maybe not in a cab lol..
yeah it work :D - its no where near drivable - but i can start it up on the drive and drool over it :D
Glad to hear you have it running...
Bet you have been calling me a few choice names.
Anyway I have replaced it with Wide body Starion Turbo.
Great news.
I will sign off this forum now.
Hope you have back on the road soon.
Tony
Bet you still haven\'t told them all what you paid for it!!!
hiya tony !!
nope not told them - a few people know but thats about it
still got some probs with the car- but the fact that it runs is a start
and nice choice of car - the starion :D
Stu
hiya chaps
just keeping this thread alive :D
had a flat on the cab yesterday - so took the wheel off to blow it up and put a spare on one until i found out what is wrong
took it to my dads and blew it up on the compressor - looks like the valve just needed nipping up ( has a nut on the back ) - so if that fixes it :D :D :D
whilst the wheel was off - noticed its got braided lines on the front - not sure about the back - will check that at a later date
fired her up - started on the first touch - so thats really good
still awaiting for the ABS ECU to arrive and some relays for the front - im hoping they will come mid week - so will have more of an update for you lot
Stu
Quote from: grinderhiya tony !!
nope not told them - a few people know but thats about it
still got some probs with the car- but the fact that it runs is a start
and nice choice of car - the starion :D
Stu
Was my guess that you edited out a good one ? :);)
he he he he
yeah the car was cheap but not the bargain i expected !! - it does need some work and to be honest more than i expected
but we all like a challenge now and again :D
i thought the reason for not starting was it was flooded - boy was i wrong !! LOL
in hind sight - i think i paid a fair price for the probs its given me ( and still is !! )
the only good thing out of all this - if i sell the car next year then the bargain will be passed to the next owner - as i never make money out of cars - i dont think its fair ( when i sold the white one - i think i made about £18 in the end - but that was just to round the price up )
Stu
u still got the roof cover :)
Mick
certainly have matey - are you still interested ??
Depends on how many pennies ,, er Pounds u want for it :)
Might try and make the 13th stu. is it in warrington
Mick
Grinder, I completely missed this thread, it always crops up in the new posts bit, so to satisfy my curiosity, and more importantly to save me reading 20 pages could you sum it up for me in 3 lines or less :)
mick - yeah its the 13th and its in warrington - i will post it up tonight in a seperate thread - and the cost of the cover - so be honest matey - not sure - im sure we can work something out - if you want i can bring it with me so you can have a look first
Scuttle : OK bought car , when you turned it on the relays went mad under the bonnet - hacked off the cat1 alarm and Turbo timer just incase these were playing up - still doing it - removed the ecu sent it to prof who swapped the chip into another one - still doing it - checked nearly every component in the engine with a mulitmeter , still wouldnt start , imported a new ECU from AUS and it now runs fine - just got the abs and headlights to sort out ( time taked to get car running - circa 40hrs )
Stu
Good to hear its nearly sorted :) sounds like it has been a bit of a PITA :D
oohh yeah and still not finished :(
Wooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooo, finally got a chance to drive me RX today :wiggle :wiggle :wiggle :wiggle
300yds up the road, it broke down, :( Ran outta fuel lol.
All ok now, 50% sure i`ll be there on the 13th stu :)
Mick
hiya chaps :D
Mick - i like you style - every time i fill the diesel up now i get a can on juice for the vert - it now has 2 gallon in it :D
right then - got me the ABS ECU - got it fitted and the light has gone out - so wooohoooo another problem down :) - see pics at end of this post for a GOOD laugh - and you will figure out why it didnt work :D :D
so onto the NEXT problem
headlights wont work
1 - i have side lights - these work fine
2 - i have front fogs - these work fine
3 - head lights wont come up or come on
4 - fool the relays and i get lights but no movement
so any ideas where to start on this - and some on the relays are getting the voltage either - tried 4 headlight switches aswell - and non will raise the lights or turn them on ( although one of them did get the dash lights working )
and the clock seems to be blowing the fuse alot ??
any ideas welcomed
Stu
( they arent the best quality pics - but they are from a camera phone taken under kitchen lights )
Quote from: grinder3 - head lights wont come up or come on
4 - fool the relays and i get lights but no movement
There are 2 main fuses for lights - one supplied power for the retractor motors and the other supplies power to the lights.
If by fudging relays you have the lights on, then try tracing the 12v feed from the fuse box in the engine bay to the relays at the front.
What I did when my lights stopped working was to take out the 2 30A fuses, disconnect the relays making a note of which one came from where, and then used the multimeter on the resistance setting to check that the 12v feeds were coming through the loom ok - that\'s how I found my lights supply was shagged.
Don\'t forget to start by checking the fuses ! ;)
QuoteLooking at the plug,(terminal side)
1 2 3
4 5 6
1.This receives power from the light switch
2.This receives power from the light switch
3.Output from relay to both lights
4.The relay gives a live output when light switch is turned on
5. Output from relay to both lights
There is a round 4 pin plug behind each headlight, unplug passenger one, and headlight stays down, not tried it on drivers side.
On my vert only 1 relay does both lights ? i post a pin out of it on here stu,
Mick
we checked BOTH relays - and it would seem that one feeds the dipped beam and the other the main beam
so which one does the retractor
checked out both fuses and they seem fine
i think you are right mick about the round connector - we are just not sure what feeds it
looks like i need to start taking it apart again :(
Stu
well looks like im about to get stung on the ABS ECU
guy sent it me saying "if it works give us a couple of quid" told him it works so offered him £15 for it
hes come back saying that £40 is more reasonable - errrrr if i knew it was gonna be that price i wouldnt have bothered
thing is - im now stuck - do i send it back ( that means i pay postage to him and have to cover his ) - or pay £40 ??
£40 for a fcuking ABS ECU - it only cost me £27.45 for the MAIN N374 ECU - hummmmmm not impressed over this - but stuck between a rock and a hard place as its sorted out my probs
really not impressed over this :(
and i could have got one from IWAN which i turned down as this one has already been posted to me :(
Stu
hummm OK - looks like its been resolved - £30 inc P&P - i suppose i cant argue at that - well i can - it just wont get me any where !!
Stu
the one closest to the drivers headlight is the retractor one, it also puts the lights on.??
We do have the same car dont we stu ??
no we dont matey - yours is an S4 and mine is a S5
from what i looks like on mine i have 2 relays one powers dip one powers main
i dont think i have a 6 pin block on mine - its a 5 pin one
i have some more print outs to go thru - but cant see me getting to a answer that quick :(
Stu
i think i mite have an abs ecu, ill dig around for in my box of spares on the weekend.
dont worry Nas - gonna send him £30 - just as easy to be honest
Stu have you checked there is Power to the Relays?
You want to folow the Power trail from the Fues box to the Lights. Its not too Difficult if you have a wiring Diagram and a multi meter.
Do the rear Lights work ok?
we are a bit hit and miss about power being there to be honest ?!?!?
the rears are just fine aswell - so they are obviously being told to come on with the switch
good idea though about tracing it from the fuses - that would atleast tell us where it stops
Stu
Get yourself a power probe stu, save you loads of time,
Might have one in the boot to show u tommoz, :) thats if i can make it, went to crewe in me rx yesterday 100mile round trip,
Drove okay if i kept it under 70 :( started to shake a lot when i went too fast, also some bloody beeping noise everytime i hit 70mph, got quite anoying after a while, cruise control worked ace, once i figured out how to work it :)
Mick
my coupe shakes like a beast above 70 its very annoying
im hoping that the coil overs will sort this out , how are your front wheel bearings - they are adjustable on the FC and have tendancy to come loose
not sure what the beeping about 70 is - thats pretty wierd
and what the hell is a power probe ???
cruise is ACE - i love playing with mine - set it at about 80mph , slow all the way down to 40 and then tell it to resume its last speed - the peddle just drops from your foot :D
im at home all day tomorrow - so gonna give the coupe a wash , and rebuild the ECU area of the cab - thats if the weather hold out
down to 2 probs with the cab - and that headlights and exhaust - exhaust is simple to fix - thats in the loft already :D
do you want me to take the cover to the meet for you to have a look at ???
Stu
mm interesting about the wheel bearings coming loose, if i grip the tyre and move it left/right there is a little play in there, will check it tommoz, if i get time,
Power Probe (http://www.testtools.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=146)
I use one everyday, and fixes 90% of the cars :)
Depends on what u looking for roof cover :)
**** meself when me cruise control kicked in, just kept accelearating, didnt think it would stop lol
Stu - if you think £30 is steep, go and ask MAzda how much a new one is :rollin
When is it going to be MOT\'d, taxed and coming to meets then? :)
yeah i know brett - it was a spur of the moment rant - to be honest - im happy with what i have paid knowing that it fixed it :D
MOT - dunno - i reckon Jan/Feb time to be honest - there is no real rush as its bloody cold outside :D :D :D
Mick - the power probe looks a neat toy to be honest :D , i will throw the cover in the boot so that you can have a look
the wheel bearing its about a 20 min job to fix - mine had loads of play in it - there is a write up on the web somewhere about doing it - just not sure where
cruise is ace - i use it all the time - get on the motorway - set it about 75 and leave it - very license friendly :D :D
Stu
hiya chaps - me again :D
here are some pics if you havent seen them : http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=306662
i will attach some to this post aswell
anyways i digress (sp) .....
started the vert up - starts on the touch - its wonderful
so took her up and down the street to see if the box works :D
its a bit cramped in there - defo not designed for tall people :(
had to do some fancy footwork to get round the mess that we have left in the footwell ( see pic )
backed her off the drive - and crickey - how strange to drive !!! - not used to an auto at all - and kept my foot on the brake thinking it was a clutch
set off up the street and its OK - it moves at least - but the hold light flashes on the dash - not sure why or what it does ???
went up and down the street a few times - always fun with the clocks bouncing around
it sets off pretty quick in L - so that was cool - thats when the clocks tried to jump out and kill me !!
the brakes are SUPERB - nothing like the TII - but i suppose 12months worth of rust on them are to blame
put her back on the drive now - gonna put the ECU cover plate back on and put all the carpet back on that side - so it looks neat
here are some pics of the mess that we have made :
Stu
found out why the brakes are soooooooooooooo good - have you ever tried left foot braking !! LOL
took it for a spin around the block again - and it feels like its slipping :(
you have to take it to about 3K in reverse for it to move
gonna have a quick look at the fluid and see if there is some in it :D
humm more problems eh
and when does it change gear ?? - i can nearly red line it in first ( street is too small to see if it changes at high revs )
off to read the haynes manual now :D :D
Stu
Quote from: grinderfound out why the brakes are soooooooooooooo good - have you ever tried left foot braking !! LOL
took it for a spin around the block again - and it feels like its slipping :(
you have to take it to about 3K in reverse for it to move
gonna have a quick look at the fluid and see if there is some in it :D
humm more problems eh
and when does it change gear ?? - i can nearly red line it in first ( street is too small to see if it changes at high revs )
off to read the haynes manual now :D :D
Stu
That\'ll be why the hold light is flickering - you are asking the gearbox not to change gear until high up - try knockng hold off - it should be normal again :)
BTW - I bet your neighbours love you :spank
i have no idea if the switch is actually turning it on or off though ??
just a shame i cant drive it more than 30 metres :(
checked the fluid and there is some in - it might just need running to be honest
still havent sussed the lights out yet - but put all the passenger side back together and it looks soooooooooo neat :D
Stu
Quotethe wheel bearing its about a 20 min job to fix - mine had loads of play in it - there is a write up on the web somewhere about doing it - just not sure where
Found it Stu :)
How to tighten your Wheel Bearing (http://www.fc3s.org/how_tos/maintenance/wheel_bearing_inspection.html)
hiya chaps :D
mick what happened on the motorway junction - at one point you was about 4cms behind me - then a huge gap opened up :D
i hit 90 in 3rd @ just over 7200 RPM :D
god bless the cold weather :D :D
Stu
Mick :
Looking at the plug,(terminal side)
1 2 3
4 5 6
1.This receives power from the light switch
2.This receives power from the light switch
3.Output from relay to both lights
4.The relay gives a live output when light switch is turned on
5. Output from relay to both lights
so where is the tab for the plug above number 2 or below number 5 ??
How come there is no number 6 ??
and which one can i apply 12 volts to to make them pop up ??
if you can let me know i will try it out later - this will tell me if the motors are working at least :D :D
or if you can tell me a wire colour ( thats if they are the same )
cheers mick
stu
Mick - attached is a pic of the blue relay - can you tell me which pin does what - then i can check it on the car
this should save confusion :D
Stu
Stu - the functions are written on the plug itself - from your picture - the right most connectors are the coil in the relay
The centre one is the COMMON relay connector, the Normally Open and Normally Closed are the left most 2 connectors.
When power is applied across the right most connectors, the centre connector will be connected to the NO pin, otherwise it is connected to the NC pin.
Cheers,
Prof. :cheers
Just spotted something - if you don\'t have anything connected to \'6\' or the other coil pin, then the relay will never operate - are you sure the correct relay has been used ? :) :?
if i wasnt confused before - i am now :D
i will see how many wires are in the actaul harness - damn these jap spec cars :D
Stu
right then - here is the wire shot :D
Stu
I remember these colours from mine !
The RED with GREEN stripe wires top row middle and right are from the 12V supply - they will probably be connected together.
The White wire will be grounded via a switch or another relay.
The 2 red wires (one with white stripe and one without) carry 12v depending on the state of the relay. The top one will be live (12V) when the relay is energised.
If you want to \'fool\' the relay into coming on, simply ground the white wire.
BTW - This looks a lot like the hi/lo beam relay to me.
i will try grounding the white one to see what happens - if anything
it could be the hig/low beam as when mick tested his for me the lights came up , flashed and went down ( jap spec do this rather than the thru the FTP )
but his is a S4 so could be different
so when i get 20 mins i will ground the white one to see what happens ( if anything )
so if i ground the white - what SHOULD happen ?? any idea\'s
if i get chance i will take a pic of the relay bank and try to label what each one does :D - from the top of my head i have
1 - somesort of ignition relay - if you apply 12v the car clicks ( like it wants to start )
2 - the round one is air con
3 - i have a front fog relay
4&5 - no idea - i think these are low beam and high beam - so i assume both of these should trigger the motors ?? - unless its just the low beam one that should
the FMS and haynes manual are very very very limited in telling you what is what and what they actually do
if i can figure it out - then i might get a little write up of what each one does and how to test them for future reference
Stu
( must be getting closer now to fixing the last peice in the puzzle !! )
possibly nothing - if it\'s the hi/lo relay, then the main light relay will still be off, so the lights will not do anything - but the relay will click.
If its the lights relay - then the lights should come on even if they don\'t pop up.
AFAIK - there is no dip-dim relay or circuit on the jap import, but if the resistor is there under the air pump then it might have been fitted. This is easy to test on the UK models - with sidelights on and ingition switch in the IGN position, the headlights should come on dimly, and will go off if the resistor is unplugged. The circuit does not affect main beam, as the resistor is only in the dipped circuit path.
well grounded the white wire - and nothing happens :(
found another white one and ground that - again nothing happens
no clicking either
do i need the headlight switch connected at this point - or shouldnt it matter ??
do i need the ignition on ? when i did the last time i had the car running
Stu
Quote from: grinderset off up the street and its OK - it moves at least - but the hold light flashes on the dash - not sure why or what it does ???
Stu
Hi Stu
As Prof\'s saying later in the thread, that\'s the hold function for the gears - so they won\'t change up or down.
If the light is lit up on the dash the "Hold" is on, if you press the button on the top of the gear stick it will take "Hold" off and it will be unlit on the dash board.
You can use the "hold" with gears 1, 2 & 3 or in "Drive" mode (automatic) - if you want extra control for cornering or accelerating - it just "holds" the gear that you were in when you set it.
If you want the box to be auto pop it in "D" for drive and let it be fully auto and use the "hold" as and when required. It\'s very useful when you want alot of acceleration as there can be quite a delay in auto mode (only fractions of seconds) whilst it decides on the best gear and sometimes it changes it\'s mind twice! :eek
You can also just select gears 1, 2 & 3 and drive it as a manual car....
So glad you\'ve got to the stage to give it a spin!
:wave
Quote from: grinderwell grounded the white wire - and nothing happens :(
found another white one and ground that - again nothing happens
no clicking either
do i need the headlight switch connected at this point - or shouldnt it matter ??
do i need the ignition on ? when i did the last time i had the car running
Stu
Stu - is there 12V on the RED/GREEN wires - if not then there is your problem. If you have 12V, check that the 12V is still 12V when you ground the white wire - by that I mean if the relay does bring the bulbs in circuit, and the 12V is too high resistance (bad wiring) it will most likely drop the relay out again - this is what happened with mine. I had to take a 12V feed from the lights fuse direct to the RED/GREEN pair (they should be connected together in the harness that goes across the front of the rad - best check that with a multimeter on resistance) on the back of the relay to get my lights working.
....and breathe....
Quotemick what happened on the motorway junction - at one point you was about 4cms behind me - then a huge gap opened up
Got to about 120 (well think it was me speedo only shows 100, then starts to bend)and u were still leaving me, then the back end twitched a little, so i **** meself and slowed down lol
i prob left you as i was rolling in 3rd doing about 40 and just floored it - hit .8 of boost and left it there until it beeped at the red line
you have to remember aswell - im prob running 60 bhp more that you
Prof : not 100% sure what you mean to be honest - if i feed the lights with 12v from the battery i can get them to work - i just cant get them to pop up or work from the switch - so its either 4 bad switches or bad wiring to the cluster
i prob wont look at the car now until next week as im off on holiday on thursday AM and need to pack
Stu
Well i missed another one :( I do have a good reason my Missus has been proper ill so i\'ve had the week off to look after her (int it Sweet) just good timing (Sods law)
Sounds like you had Fun. :)
hiya chris - it was bedlem last night to be honest - they were stopping every car on the way in and telling them where to park
it was about 15 cars deep on the round-a-bout .. madness
you take care of your missus - its the safest way :D
Stu
Best bit is what ever she has i have now :( I felt bad all day today.
Was there a good Rx Turn out?? Did you take pics?? :yes
Ahh well looks like its going to be Dec meet now.
i didnt take pics matey
there were 2 FC\'s inc mine ( mobilemick came in his vert )
and about 7-8 FD\'s - so yeah a good turn out
Stu
Hi Stu
got my V5 back from the dvla today and they had changed my CC to 1308 with out any questions.
just been and taxed it and it cost £110 for a year instead of £185 [big difference as i now have 2 verts that work LOL.:Giggle
good luck with the light im sure it will be something simple such as new motors needed [more LOL]:Giggle :Giggle
prob meet when you get your car sorted at RS 4 or should i say RS7 anyway you can clip me round the ear for being so rude then:WaveBye
nice to hear about the tax thing - i really need to sort mine out - its worth a stamp at the end of the day
and the coupe will make RS4 - not sure about the vert at this rate
now that its moved to August - i have some playing time for both cars :D :D
Stu
You want to get it sorted quick these things tend to not last too long before some one thinks...... Urm we\'re looseing some money on this??? And the Plug gets pulled.
yeah i know - its the first job on the list when i get back from holiday - too late to do anything NOW :(
started a new thread about the lights
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32221
should make it easier for searching in the future if anyone else gets probs :D
Stu