Just doin a bit of routine work on the rex and now i\'ve hit a problem. Just fitted a new radiator, followed all the how too\'s and got the rad on no problems with no leaks...great! but when i start the engine it fires up ok but after about 20secs just dies and turns itself off. Sits at idle speed fine but keeps turning itself off....any ideas?
Just been doing a bit if researching and it seems as though it could be flooded, the symptons are there! this is the first time i\'ve had to deal with this, will post any results. cheers
I don\'t think you\'d even get it started if it was flooded - would just turn over and smell like a petrochemical plant.
If it\'s cutting off so early, it sounds like fuel flow or one of the sensors maybe off - check you didn\'t knock anything out when you were in there with the spanners.
Make sure you have no air leaks in the intake tracts either :)
Checked all the sensors, tightened up all the clips for the intake but now it wont even start. Just turns over and over catching slightly now and then, plus the smell of petrol is quiet overwhelming. When it did start for a few seconds white smoke bellowed out from the back but soon died and back to nothing again. This is what makes me think its flooded!?
Also is there a fuel cut of switch anywhere on the T2? took the spark plugs out removed egi fuse and cranked the engine but nothing but smoke, not even a trace of fuel, seems as though no fuel may be getting to it....and yeah i\'d just stuck a 10er in it too just to make sure cause it was low.
WEIRD???
smoke? without the plugs in? Sounds more like fuel vapour pouring out of the pipes. Was the smoke white?
You may have flooded it, of so, take out the EGI fuse and turn it over without the plugs in, heat them up to clean them, then put it all back together and try again! DON\'T SMOKE NEAR IT!
Yeah white smoke without the plugs in? bad news?
Yeah didnt have to long before the darkness made me stop last night, will try again this evening, just remove the plugs, clean them and stick them in the oven, crank the car without the egi fuse 5-6 times then replace sparks with a little oil, replace egi fuse and that should sort it?
Oh anyone know exactly which ht leads go to which plugs? i cant quite make it out from the manual. Just in case i loose my grip on one when i\'m fiddlin..cheers
Quote from: hawker182Yeah white smoke without the plugs in? bad news?
Yeah didnt have to long before the darkness made me stop last night, will try again this evening, just remove the plugs, clean them and stick them in the oven, crank the car without the egi fuse 5-6 times then replace sparks with a little oil, replace egi fuse and that should sort it?
yes, turn it over for about 20-30 secs with the accelerator pedal down to open the throttle bodies to make sure all the fuel is out of the system. Better to stick the plugs over the hob to burn out all the excess fuel/oil.
Can\'t remember how you id the HT leads, just know that if you have them the wrong way round it runs like a PIG! sorry!
No the white smoke isn\'t a bad sign, just a sign that you have loads of fuel vapour in the system to clear out
Excellent cheers, will try once i get home and let u know how it goes
Leading plugs on the bottom - think they fire together, so doesn\'t matter which way around these go, trailing ones are on the top - they fire independently. Best bet is to trace the leads before you pull them off
dead easy
4 plugs - you have trailing and leading ( 2 on each )
so.....
T1 - top plug first rotor ( headlight end )
T2 - top plug second rotor ( bulk head end )
L1 - lower plug first rotor
L2 - lower plug second rotor
and the coils are marked ( i think ) Trailing is the one near the windscreen , leading is the one near the battery ( trailing top , leading lower )
simple really :D
Stu
excellent cheers guys, let ya know how i get on
Ok got home last night and yeah the engine was flooded, did the above and it started on a dime. GREAT i thought.....then back to the underlining problem of after having the engine running for no more than 10secs it cuts itself off. Seems to be the same amount off time each time, just starts up revs and dies. You can apply the throttle and it will rev up but still die after 10secs or so. Any ideas? cheers
very odd, that sounds like what happened to Stu\'s (Grinder) new vert, prior to his purchasing said vehicle.
Must be some problem with either the ECU or maybe there is a fault with the security system causing the immobiliser to kick in?
Have you checked the fuel pump to make sure it is working, also check the fuel pump relay to make sure all is well, you can hear the fuel pump if it is working open rear hatch and turn car on should be able to hear the fuel pump fire up ?
If not theres your problem matey.
Ok just opened the boot and turned the ignition, cant hear the fuel pump whiring away before the engine starts, best way of checking it for sure?
Lift the carpeting off the boot floor, ask someone to stand there while you try to turn the car over if there is no humming then the fuel pump is not working, check the fuel pump relay in engine to make sure its ok if not either get a new one or make a bridge to double check it is working.
I own a FD so not 100% on a TII as to where everything is but sounds like fuel pump relay may have gone.
Right just been out with the car, all connections seem secure, if i put a direct 12v feed to the fuel pump it doesnt start but the two solenoids in the rear by the jack click away. Then i found if i removed the egi fuse and turn the ign on the fuel pump starts fine and stays on continously, as soon as the egi fuse goes back in it stops. Is this normal? or am i getting a step closer
Cheers
sounds like the cut off switch is in effect - not sure where that is, but there is a circuit to turn off the fuel pump when the car turns over. Might be located near the fuel pump relay and resistor which are located behind the drivers side headlight.
Does\'nt the Pump just prime the system when its not running? i did\'nt think it was on all the time (for saftey incase its been in a smash and the fuel line has been severed)?
Should prime for a few seconds and then stop, when it picks up the cranking signal, it should kick in again
Cant hear the pump priming at all, unless i take the EGI fuse out and it stays on continoulsy. The car still starts first time every time but dies after 3-4 seconds each and every time no matter if you leave it at idle or give it some gas
Check the earth near the battery, we get a lot of rovers doing the same thing.
I`ll have a read of me manual i got, and see if its in there about this probem
Mick
Cheers mick will go have a fiddle now, let ya know what i come up with
Right been having a good old fiddle today, what i\'ve found is that the car is still doing the same but if you start it up without the afm sensor in the car runs and does not cut out, it runs pretty messy ie: revs up and down, jerky and basically sounds awful but runs, when i plug the afm sensor in it cuts straight out. This now has me wondering if its something else as the fuel pump must be working?!
In the AFM is the fuel cut switch - designed to cut fuel if the car is turned over - I bet that\'s gone - and the \'circuit opening relay\', which this drives, is cutting the fuel pump.
You could try jumpering that relay, or cutting the switch wire - obviously when you unplug the AFM you are disconnecting the switch, which must mean the switch is normally open and has failed with a short in yours.
If you have the service manual on PDF you can find details in that, otherwise I\'ll post up details here.
Thats sounds like a very possible solution, will have a look in the pdf but if u know the page number can ya throw it up here for me
Cheers Prof
My car is a Turbo 89- so if your\'s is then you\'ll find details on the fuel supply relays on page F2-52 and F2-53 in pdf 4B of the PDF\'s.
For N/A cars this is in 4A - pages F1-57 and F1-58
Details of the switch in the AFM - seems the cut off switch was only in the AFM for the earlier models - looking in the 88 service manuals - section 4b for the turbo - its on page 4B-60, and for the N/A section 4A - page 4A - 54
If you don\'t have this one I can try and see if I can grab the page out of the pdf - but they were scanned - so it will be a piccy.
From the picture, the AFM plug on these models has 7 contacts, if you hold it so that the plug has 2 bumps upwards, and 3 below, then then the fuel pump cut off switch is the last 2 contacts on the right (I think)
Right i\'ve been right through the engine and as much as the electrical side of things that i\'m capable of doing and still cant get the buga to work so its off to THE GARAGE to have a man whos job it is to fix cars to have a go. I\'ve used these guys alot and they are pretty good so fingers crossed nothing too expensive.
Will post up what it was they actually found to be wrong
Cheers for all the help though
Adam
Ok had a call from the garage the other day and they reckon its in need of a new alternator, apparantly its not charging when the engines running and this is effecting the fuel pump relay because its not getting a feed from the alternator. This is not 100% but its all they can think of thats causing the problem.
So any one have a spare alternator they want to part with?
Cheers Adam
Ok got a new alternator from ebay but what was sent was not an alternator from an RX7, very very annoying seeing as i cant get hold of the guy anymore. So i pose the question again
Anyone have a alternator for a 1990 TII they want to sell?
take it to a auto electrician, sure they can repair it
Thats not a bad plan may see if i can get that sorted whilst the hunt continues, as the busted one is just sat in the garage fourcourt. Cheers mick
I\'ll have a look through all my Bits, see if i have one knocking about.
Right UPDATE time...............
Had a new alternator delivered today (about time) got it bolted on and still the same thing happens each and every time. This has me thinking that the garage didnt know what they were talking about and my old alternator was fine. Anyway\'s now i\'m stuck, gonna take it all apart tomor and see if i\'ve overlooked something but am thinking a new AFM might be a good idea?
Anyone got one knocking around, the round type? Also should it make any difference to the car if its removed as i\'ve seen some hard piping induction kits that fit without the AFM on Jap ebay and they seem to do without the AFM all together!?
Was so gutted when it died tho as i\'ve waited months for an alternator, got it fitted and thought Sweet take here out but no, back to square one
can you do a bullet list of exactly what happens and in what order ?
Stu
Yeah no probs
1. Turn key in ignition to AC - no priming noise from fuel pump
2. Start engine - 1st time everytime no probs
3. Engine revs to 3000rpm and cuts out
If i remove the AFM sensor from the AFM housing and start the car it runs, lumpy and very smokey but runs for as long as u want. Plug it back it in dies. If i rev the engine whilst the AFM sensor is out it dies also.
Have checked the fuel pump, its fine, must be anyway cause the car will run, checked for VAC leaks, none found, new alternator fitted, this cant be the cause anymore. Confused.com!!!!!????? lol
so if you leave the car as it is with everything plugged in - then you can start it and it will run for 10 seconds and then die ?
OK try something silly
unplug the fuel pump ( passenger side rear shock tower ) - then start the car - does it do EXACTLY the same ?
so you can remove the AFM connector , and it will idle for over 20 mins if you dont touch it ??
Stu
Yeah runs for about 4secs then dies. Will try and see what happens with the fuel pump unplugged tomro morn, think i did try that cause i was running a +12v to the fuel pump earlier and the same happened but will unplug it all together 1st thing 2moro morn and post up results
Yeah AFM connector unplugged it idles at about 3500 for as long as it wants....strange
3500 RPM - WOW thats pretty high matey
are you starting the car with the clutch up or down ??
saying that - i wonder what the AFM actually controls ?? as if you unplug it and it runs - this proves the fuel pump is working OK
have you checked what the manual says about checking the AFM ?
This is what i\'m wondering, surely it cant have that biga affect. I remember on my old SW20 MR2 i fiited an induction pipe which meant removing the AFM and sensor and it didnt make one bit of difference. Will check up now on the PDF
Literally says that it just detects the air intake temperature, nothing to say what it may affect if faulty.
i thought the FSM told you how to check it to see if it was working or not
UNLESS
if you unplug it - it defaults to sensing that its really cold - hence the AWS kicks in and holds the revs to 3500 ( auto warmup system )
let me see if i can find anything :D
Stu
page 80 tells you the OHMS of the AFM
you could always check this out and see what it says
and also read pages 23-25
although it doesnt tell you much - its a start i suppose
failing this
1 - get another AFM from somewhere
2 - remove the ECU and have a look at the inside for damage
Stu
hmmmm....that could be plausable, let me know if you come up trumps though cause have the day off tomro and gonna get up and have a good dig around out there, as long as the rain holds off. Cheers Stu
Yeah will get on the case with that in the morn, will prob be posting up anything i find throughout the day
these might not help but you never know :
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=598202&highlight=AFM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=596522&highlight=AFM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=595055&highlight=AFM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=578747&highlight=AFM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=592404&page=1&pp=15&highlight=AFM
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_wiki.php?wi=95&co=1&vi=1
try the last link first :D
If you have the round type - this is the one with the cone shaped airflow meter. The AFM unit also houses the inlet temperature sensor.
If the inlet temp sender is not working the ECU assumes 20 degrees I believe. The AFM itself is meant to measure airflow so that fuelling can be set correctly. When the car idles, the O2 sensor on the exhaust is responsible for correcting fuel, along with the wax thermo thingy and the BAC valve (load dependancy - lights, aircon etc) which explains why it runs ok on idle with the AFM unplugged.
When you blip the throttle and pull in more air - without the AFM it can\'t map fuelling - so the engine will die. It does sound like the AFM is broke.
The induction kits on ebay are meant to be used with the stock AFM - if you want to eliminate it, you need to map it out somehow (with a replacement ECU or piggy back). This is done by using the MAP sensor and the RPM to work out the airflow.
Stu, Prof thankyou very much sounds like the AFM is knackered, those links all point to the same thing too. Just need to find one now, am i correct in saying that the round cone shaped one is from an S5 and i will be needing it to be from a TurboII and not an EGI.