can anyone give me info on a T70, i wanna know everything, what power it will give, what sort of lag, is it smooth. everything....!!!!!!!:Giggle
i will be running a large!! street port, flywheels, clutch, 1600 secondary injectors (i hope), if this helps
cheers in advance
not enough!! Youll need more than that to come away victorious from my challenge!! :)
depends on what t70 it is.
the list of specs are endless
people sell them on fleabay with all different kinds of compressor wheel/back housing combos etc
what make is it??
ball bearing of wet float oil bearings???
housing sizes???
etc etc
oi, taking my idea! I was going for a T70 (changed that to a T72 now :) ) as has been said, does depend on the spec really.
Arent turbonetics turbo\'s known for being the worldwide haven of turbo lag? :)
I wouldn\'t know, Tim hasn\'t fitted mine yet! All things are relative, Ross\'s Drag car has more lag I suspect! The T72 should be on song by about 3700 and full boost by about 6000 from what I have read. (note to self: ask Tim or Matt to increase the rev limiter to 8500!)
T70 with 1.15 a/r should be good for ~400 rwhp at 1.0bar. Up that to 1.35 and 500rwhp is possible at ~1.2 bar.
Spool will depend on many things but with big porting a decent flowing exhaust it\'ll boost from 4500+.
I\'ve got some issues to work out with my setup (1.15 a/r) to do with a restrictive exhaust and possibly oversized manifold causing boost to arrive a bit later than I\'d like but it makes 350rwhp at 0.9 bar which is currently limited by the intercooler\'s flow rate.
New backbox should see power arrive from a little after 5k rpm. new intercooler will see 400rwhp.
power delivery is very smooth but quite brutal. I\'ve not dared run it on high boost (1.0 bar) yet! Power curve is flat from 5800 to 8000rpm (poss beyond but the graph runs out!!).
It\'s a good turbo for the cost but there are better for more money...
Quote from: A7NTYArent turbonetics turbo\'s known for being the worldwide haven of turbo lag? :)
Depends on a few factors, like anything else the rest of the system must work with the turbo\'s characteristics. Mine should be much better once I sort the exhaust but it\'s a bit too laggy right now...
Quote from: iaintDepends on a few factors, like anything else the rest of the system must work with the turbo\'s characteristics. Mine should be much better once I sort the exhaust but it\'s a bit too laggy right now...
I detect a touch of negativity Iain:Nono! I am sure once the \'other\' issues are sorted she will fly:Thumbs-up It is time peeps understood that whacking a big turbo onto your engine is only half of it, the turbo needs to be matched to your porting/ setup otherwise you end up with a pile of poo:eek: It is a bit like people talking about their handling - most people have different ideas as to what is the perfect setup - slam the car to the ground without propper damping and it will be crap - so on and so on.
i believe it is a turbonetics, i will find out the hot side size in about an hour. i will be running a WGT v-mount intercooler.
what sort of revs does something like a t04e boost at?
at the sound of it that seems quite laggy, is it going to really be huge amounts different from stock twins?
for back out/drifting etc, can you get used to them pretty quickly or is it always going to be a bit brutal, incomparision to twins?
i was going to go for a gt35/40 but apparently they have had alot of faulty ones, as the ball bearings cant hack the temperature.
how much bigger is this than the gt35/40 etc?
Quote from: iaintT70 with 1.15 a/r should be good for ~400 rwhp at 1.0bar. Up that to 1.35 and 500rwhp is possible at ~1.2 bar.
Spool will depend on many things but with big porting a decent flowing exhaust it\'ll boost from 4500+.
I\'ve got some issues to work out with my setup (1.15 a/r) to do with a restrictive exhaust and possibly oversized manifold causing boost to arrive a bit later than I\'d like but it makes 350rwhp at 0.9 bar which is currently limited by the intercooler\'s flow rate.
New backbox should see power arrive from a little after 5k rpm. new intercooler will see 400rwhp.
power delivery is very smooth but quite brutal. I\'ve not dared run it on high boost (1.0 bar) yet! Power curve is flat from 5800 to 8000rpm (poss beyond but the graph runs out!!).
It\'s a good turbo for the cost but there are better for more money...
Iain, how late is power coming in at the moment? Cant say we found much difference in lag between a restrictive (quiet) and non restrictive back box.
Our TO4Z with a half bridge port gives 400bhp at the wheels at 1.0 bar boost and full boost from about 3500rpm or less. Its a lovely turbo but I expect a fair bit more cash than the Turbonetics one, the turbo alone in HKS form is £1500 or so.
Ant.
Quote from: John YorkeI detect a touch of negativity Iain:Nono! I am sure once the \'other\' issues are sorted she will fly:Thumbs-up It is time peeps understood that whacking a big turbo onto your engine is only half of it, the turbo needs to be matched to your porting/ setup otherwise you end up with a pile of poo:eek: It is a bit like people talking about their handling - most people have different ideas as to what is the perfect setup - slam the car to the ground without propper damping and it will be crap - so on and so on.
spot on john...i got 425rwhp on mine with a 1.0 a/r at about 1.2 and my ports are not matched and they are pretty small........(not for long....:eek: :Thumbsup! ).... watch this space...suprised yours is so laggy ian...is it because you are just no used to it?....thats why i went for a 1.0...felt it was the best comprise for streetable power.....and with a better/bigger (cough) street port and some other bits and pieces........we shall see...:eek
John/Ed ,
Not really negative, it\'s something that we (re:worx and my chequebook ;)) are working on. Geff absolutely bust a gut to get things working as nicely as they are but there\'s a bit of room for improvement!
Replacing my silenced mid-pipe for a silenced but less restrictive one made a peak power difference of 75rwhp which is pretty amasing. The current backbox is very restrictive (hence being damn quiet) and we\'re also looking at changing the manifold to something a little smaller if we can\'t get power earlier.
Looking at the graph I\'m hitting
200rwhp @ 5000rpm
280rwhp @ 5500rpm
320rwhp @ 5900rpm
340rwhp @ 6800rpm
350rwhp @ 7400rpm
peak was 353rwhp @ 7000rpm
I\'ve upped the rev limit to 8500 on Geff\'s advice to reduce the risk of hitting it when hooning but I\'ve got very usable power from 5.5k to over 8k. Ideally I\'ll be hitting 80% of peak power by 5krpm (so 280 in this example).
My target is 400rwhp so I\'d like to hit 320 by 5k rpm once the intercooler\'s sorted... Should be ~1.0 bar boost too :)
Quote from: A7NTYIain, how late is power coming in at the moment? Cant say we found much difference in lag between a restrictive (quiet) and non restrictive back box.
Our TO4Z with a half bridge port gives 400bhp at the wheels at 1.0 bar boost and full boost from about 3500rpm or less. Its a lovely turbo but I expect a fair bit more cash than the Turbonetics one, the turbo alone in HKS form is £1500 or so.
Ant.
Had a conversation with Geff about popping the engine out to have the ports extended a tad ;) so that might well be a winter project...
Quote from: iaintHad a conversation with Geff about popping the engine out to have the ports extended a tad ;) so that might well be a winter project...
You know it makes sence:Thumbs-up
so single tubby, is it good? is it the way to go? i did love the speed of the twin as it does kick in so quickly and just kkep accelerating!
Quote from: iaintHad a conversation with Geff about popping the engine out to have the ports extended a tad ;) so that might well be a winter project...
yes a man after my own heart!!!:chat
Singles are better for top end power, TO4R keeped hauling arse hard at high end revs ,compared with twins,depends also what driving you want to do,
In town racing stick with twins/Small single, drifting medium to smallish single,drag - biggest single with seroius porting,
Does that sound right..
Quote from: D1 WTFso single tubby, is it good? is it the way to go? i did love the speed of the twin as it does kick in so quickly and just kkep accelerating!
Quote from: iaintHad a conversation with Geff about popping the engine out to have the ports extended a tad ;) so that might well be a winter project...
Make him do you a 1/2 bridge port, you know it makes sense :D Dont listen if he tells you its not driveable in traffic! THEY ARE LIES I TELL YOU :D its fine in traffic, I was trying to persuade Max of the benefits too.
Quote from: iaintJohn/Ed ,
Not really negative, it\'s something that we (re:worx and my chequebook ;)) are working on. Geff absolutely bust a gut to get things working as nicely as they are but there\'s a bit of room for improvement!
Replacing my silenced mid-pipe for a silenced but less restrictive one made a peak power difference of 75rwhp which is pretty amasing. The current backbox is very restrictive (hence being damn quiet) and we\'re also looking at changing the manifold to something a little smaller if we can\'t get power earlier.
Looking at the graph I\'m hitting
200rwhp @ 5000rpm
280rwhp @ 5500rpm
320rwhp @ 5900rpm
340rwhp @ 6800rpm
350rwhp @ 7400rpm
peak was 353rwhp @ 7000rpm
I\'ve upped the rev limit to 8500 on Geff\'s advice to reduce the risk of hitting it when hooning but I\'ve got very usable power from 5.5k to over 8k. Ideally I\'ll be hitting 80% of peak power by 5krpm (so 280 in this example).
My target is 400rwhp so I\'d like to hit 320 by 5k rpm once the intercooler\'s sorted... Should be ~1.0 bar boost too :)
One thing Iain, remember that the dyno will never truly show the lowest boost will come in unless the ramp rate is set really high (load rate) on the road stick it in 5th at about 1000-1500rpm and see what happens then? I expect you will find it comes in a lot lower than the dyno.
Cheers, Ant.
Quote from: A7NTYOne thing Iain, remember that the dyno will never truly show the lowest boost will come in unless the ramp rate is set really high (load rate) on the road stick it in 5th at about 1000-1500rpm and see what happens then? I expect you will find it comes in a lot lower than the dyno.
Cheers, Ant.
By the time it comes in I\'d be doing 140!
Quote from: iaintBy the time it comes in I\'d be doing 140!
OK 4th gear then :D
Quote from: nurspecSingles are better for top end power, TO4R keeped hauling arse hard at high end revs ,compared with twins,depends also what driving you want to do,
In town racing stick with twins/Small single, drifting medium to smallish single,drag - biggest single with seroius porting,
Does that sound right..
That\'s a fair summary. Some singles will give the driveability of the twins with a little more power and a smoother delivery (i.e. no transition).
Really does depend on how you want to use the car.
One thing I\'ve noticed from having a setup where boost arrives much later is I get great mpg as I\'m not gettin ginto boost as much on most journies - only when it\'s needed.
Quote from: iaintThat\'s a fair summary. Some singles will give the driveability of the twins with a little more power and a smoother delivery (i.e. no transition).
Really does depend on how you want to use the car.
One thing I\'ve noticed from having a setup where boost arrives much later is I get great mpg as I\'m not gettin ginto boost as much on most journies - only when it\'s needed.
i am liking that, being able to stay of the boost and getting some miles for your money is good.
i use it as my everyday car. i do fairly drive it though, like i was told when i first joined the forum "you must red line it at least once in a journey:D , and anyway rotarys need to be reved high:driving "
is the t70 going to be alright?
and do you really notice the lag, or can you still get it off the lights fast, without being \'completely\' sideways?
Well if you want my opinion here it is. Standard twins are sh1te, they make too much heat and the plumbing is a joke and a very very bad one at that. They also suffer from pitiful wastegates and quite frankly I found even an old mitsubishi truck special greddy T78 wasnt at all laggy even on a standard engine. With a 3540 Gt35r or whatever I would think you would have at most a tiny weeny bit more lag, better top end and less heat. An altogether better option.
Quote from: D1 WTFis the t70 going to be alright?
and do you really notice the lag, or can you still get it off the lights fast, without being \'completely\' sideways?
It should be fine, it\'s not far from being ideal as it is.
As for launching... I have too much mechanical sympathy and last time I tried I nearly stalled. Need to practice a bit :)
is the t70 going to be alright?
and do you really notice the lag, or can you still get it off the lights fast, without being \'completely\' sideways?[/QUOTE]
All depends on your driving style, If you lauch sympatheticaly at 3 -4k there aint much that will stay sitting beside you. By the time you are hitting full boost you will be on your own.
If your intention is to keep it as a daily driver you might want to consider a less brutal turbo though, it will be less strain on your engine, in other words you would have a longer time between re-builds, and better fuel consumption.
john yorke- i am pretty sure i am going with the T70 but i am only getting the 1 something hotside. so not to big, so should still be ok, i hope.
is it not possible to have a couple of maps on the apexi? one for motorway, mainly off boost and one for fun days(eg. raining days,lol) ?
Quote from: D1 WTFjohn yorke- i am pretty sure i am going with the T70 but i am only getting the 1 something hotside. so not to big, so should still be ok, i hope.
is it not possible to have a couple of maps on the apexi? one for motorway, mainly off boost and one for fun days(eg. raining days,lol) ?
1.15 is a good size for the exhaust. You should fit a boost controller which will give you those options - set up for daily drive .8bar [setting 1] through to 1.2bar [setting 4]for ragging / dragging.
Just make sure all the other bits are in place - uprated fueling, cooling, exhaust ect. ect.
Iain, a comparison for you from when our car had a stock engine and Trust T78-33D ancient technology mitsubishi diesel truck turbo. This is either 0.8 or 0.9 bar boost.
120rwhp @ 2400rpm
150rwhp @ 3300rpm
200rwhp @ 4100rpm
265rwhp @ 5000rpm
310rwhp @ 5500rpm
335rwhp @ 5900rpm
350rwhp @ 6350rpm
351.5rwhp @ 6900rpm
PS this is with a MASSIVE front mount intercooler and 4" HKS drag system (I think - might have been feed mid pipe and fujitsubo rear box which is far more restrictive)
Interesting Ant. I know the turbo should be making boost earlier and we\'ve got a plan of attack mapped out just a pain to have to do more work to get the car perfect :)
Now with TO4Z and bridgeport how about this.
250rwhp @ 4400rpm
350rwhp @ 5600rpm
400rwhp @ 6200rpm
425rwhp @ 6800rpm
435rwhp @ 7400rpm
I have 300-340 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels between 4400rpm and 7400 rpm - beautiful. Thats 1.2 bar boost. Must be even better at 1.4.