Many of you may have seen the Mazda statements on Rotarynews.com surrounding the recalls of RX-8\'s in the USA,
http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/822
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/826
The implications for owners are very very serious which led me to contact Mazda for an official comment on the situation with our own members cars here in the UK and Europe and below is the answer I received.
Dear Clive
Further to your e-mail dated 22nd August 2006, and our subsequent telephone conversation, I am now able to provide you with further information regarding the Mazda RX-8 recall in the USA.
As you can probably appreciate we only receive information on recalls/service campaigns etc that affect UK vehicles as it would be an impossible
task (and largely irrelevant) to keep track of such campaigns for vehicles in other markets around the world. However, as the UK sells the majority of Mazda RX-8\'s in Europe we are of course interested in this USA recall.
Having investigated this matter with our European head office I am informed that this recall will only affect the USA market and that the recall relates to the emission laws in that market (which are different from European legislation). There are therefore no plans to launch a recall in the UK.
Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further information, but you should be aware that I will not be back in the office until Thursday 7th September.
Regards
Mazda Motors UK limited
( Also see http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=274839#post274839 for more info )
What!...what a snow job by Mazda UK..
The recall in the US have little to nothing to do with emmissions....
Its all to do with owners using lite/light weight synthetic oils, resulting in high burn deposits on rotors and exhaust ports, hence poor performance/compressions, ECU re-flash for the metering oil pump and the amount of oil squirted into the fuel mix and possible a trailing spark plug heatrange change for some owners....in some cases US Rx-8\'s will require an engine overhaul/rebuild.
Get it right Mazda UK..
Because of course, the engine is completely different in the UK isn\'t it.... Just like the aircon is different in the UK too... when that recall went out in the US.
Just to be devils advocate :
Quotewill only affect the USA market and that the recall relates to the emission laws in that market (which are different from European legislation). There are therefore no plans to launch a recall in the UK.
Hmmm, I suspect that the legislation they are referring to is specifically CA where cats have to last 100 K miles minimum. So the current \'issues\' may result in some engines chucking unburt fuel into the cat, hence failing this legislation.
That however, does not confirm that we do not have potentially the same issue, simply that there is no such legislation in the UK.
My reasoning being that I\'ve been through a 2 cats (as you amay know) and that my car does show the symptoms in the TSB where the revs drop below 700 at idle.... I think I will be asking them to perform a vcaccum test anyway to confirm / deny oblems and I will gather the data from the CANscan for the idle revs.
I can however believe that the oil and recall are not related. The recall has been due to insufficient oil being injects, hence cat damage due to loss of seal and fuel escaping. The \'low revs\' test run will prevoke this situation.
I just find it really strange that my car has behaved better, less sooty exhausts, resolved a few \'kangarooing\' problems at 3-4 K revs in 2nd under medium throttle, running on Motul Full-synth oil, and yet they say its not good for the car.
Look forward to the letter from them.
Quote from: BlueAdeptBecause of course, the engine is completely different in the UK isn\'t it.... Just like the aircon is different in the UK too... when that recall went out in the US.
NO, it it is NOT completely different, the RECALL issue at the moment is to do with the INTERNALS of the engine which are the same WORLD WIDE.
It has NOTHING to do with Emission regulations or CATS, Read what I have posted above....its to do with POOR Compressions and there is a Vacuum test that the dealers must perform to indicate if the motor needs replacement.
BTW, the ONLY reason the air conditioners are different is because one car is LHD, yours like ours is RHD, the evaporator under the dash and compressor mounts on opposite sides to LHD US RX-8\'s.. there design technically is the same.
Quote from: RX-8888NO, it it is NOT completely different, the RECALL issue at the moment is to do with the INTERNALS of the engine which are the same WORLD WIDE.
Sorry you misread the post, James ( BlueAdept) was being sarcastic toward Mazda !!.
Of course we know that our cars have the same engines as the rest of the world that is excepting the four port Auto engine which is not officially available in Europe
BTW could you be kind enough to send your Mazda bulletins over as I have to speak to Mazda again in a few hours time to find out just what oil they do now recommend!
Hope this helps
Quote from: cliveSorry you misread the post, James ( BlueAdept) was being sarcastic toward Mazda !!.
Of course we know that our cars have the same engines as the rest of the world that is excepting the four port Auto engine which is not officially available in Europe
BTW could you be kind enough to send your Mazda bulletins over as I have to speak to Mazda again in a few hours time to find out just what oil they do now recommend!
Hope this helps
Sent them to clive@mazdarotaryclub.com....cheers
LOL, was my sarcasm a bit to subtle... mabe I\'ve had too much dealings with Mazda UK...
Actually I\'m less concearned with this than the way they handled other things...
Clive, can you possible write a bit about what the corner seals that are giving the problem actually are... most people are familiar with the tip seals, and the oil control seals on the sides of the rotors, but I\'m not 100% sure about the corner ones, and I\'m sure others aren\'t either...
Also, do we thing the failures are resulting from carbon in the engines from using synthetic oils, or just a component failure?...
Interesting that orbist should comment about sooty exhausts... I notice that the amount of soot in my exhausts changes depending on the driving I\'ve been doing... a good long trip and some B road barnstorming and the soot virtually disappears, but town driving does make it build up...
Quote from: BlueAdeptLOL, was my sarcasm a bit to subtle... mabe I\'ve had too much dealings with Mazda UK...
Should hang out with me bro,teach you some skills LOLOLOLOLOLOL:guinness ...makings of an interseting thread..
A very interesting subject :yes .
It always begs the question of how come the US market always get to hear about ANY issues monthssss... before the UK? The TSB\'s that can be found via Arlington(?) Mazda website have been available for a long time - to US owners unless you know about them here in the UK. For example, I remember posting about the TSB regarding the front seat belt buckles striking the backs of the front seats and causing damage, this was a re-call in the US and sure enough, when I told my Mazda dealer about the problem they new nothing of it! They checked with Mazda UK who confirmed the problem and subsequently Mill Cars @ Watford replaced the parts! BTW, not a plug for Mill Cars but I have found them very helpful in the past.
Unfortunately I missed the Google video that has ruffled a few feathers as it has \'gone\' and was wondering if any body here has managed to copy it and save it?
In any case, what is Mazda saying officially about the recommended/only oil type to be used rx8\'s/rotaries? Will they be sending letters out to owners perhaps?
:cheers
Ian.
Could it be that the petrol in the US generally has fewer detergents and cleaning agents in it than that in Europe?
If we assume the claims by Shell, BP, et al about the ability of the fuel to clean the engine of deposits then we may not suffer from this issue when using premium fuel brands...
Quote from: IanmcurtisA very interesting subject :yes .
In any case, what is Mazda saying officially about the recommended/only oil type to be used rx8\'s/rotaries? Will they be sending letters out to owners perhaps?
:cheers
Ian.
Hi Ian,
After talking with Mazda UK yesterday at length it has been agreed that we will be putting out a letter from them at the end of the week (hopefully)
The delay is to so both Mazda and ourselves get this Oil thing not a 100% right but 200% right, as it will be such an important statement if you will not now even be able to use Semi Synthetic in an RX-8, seeing as Semi Synthetic was supplied in the sumps of these cars! .
So as I say hopefully by the end of the week we will have an official Mazda letter telling us EXACTLY what specification of Oil RX-8 owners will now have to use in there cars.
With earlier Rotarys it is very very clear cut, Mazda recommend Mineral Oil ONLY but we now need proper clarification surrounding RX-8\'s
Thanks Clive.
From what I understand, there are a lot of rex owners that even supply their own, preffered engine oil at servicing intervals! I now can\'t help but wonder what Mazda will have to say about those particular warrantees should problems occur.
Also, I\'d imagine that Opie Oils will also be very interested too.
:cheers
Ian.
Just in case, here\'s the link to the rx8 Service Bulletins. I see that the US are having the powertrain warranty extended!
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html
:cheers
Well from what Tim said about his engine when he used synthetic oil in it, I cant say im suprised at all. I stick with the tried and tested 10w40 mineral oil it does me proud in every rotary engine I have.
Quote from: A7NTYWell from what Tim said about his engine when he used synthetic oil in it, I cant say im suprised at all. I stick with the tried and tested 10w40 mineral oil it does me proud in every rotary engine I have.
You HOO!, Cheers Mate...
I could not agree more, here I use Castrol GTX-3 10w40 Mineral, and Nothing else...
Chickens will come home to roost in time....Owners from "Synthetic Land" just wont listen, the annoying thing about all this is that when something goes wrong...it\'s Mazda\'s error.
Mazda USA (MNAO) have extended warranties for ALL Rx-8 owners regardless of ownership. Engines that fail a vacuum test will have them replaced, the vacuum test will show up degradation of oil control ring O rings due to the use of synthetics as many of these engines are internally leaking engine oil, ....as we know it can only come from one area in a rotary.
Here is a Mazda Australia internal/dealer TSB form July this year...
Hi RX-8888.
Sorry, but I could not resist posting your remarks from rotarynews.com
Mate you crack me up! Thats what I call \'telling them\' :rollin :Thumbs-up
BTW, any of our US cousins who read this thread, we all have some thing to learn in life. Just some more than most ;)
Here you go.
RX-8888 post...
I have been telling you know all yanks for 2 years NOT to use synthetic oil in ANY Rotary....but, no all these SO called Rotary Gods know more than Mazda Japan.....and now you guys expect new motors for nothing.....typical.....MNAO should also be held to account for not correctly prohibiting their dealers in using or recommending synth.
I don\'t care what ANYONE SAYS...MAZDA JAPAN...I REPEAT JAPAN have NEVER recommended the use of Synthetics for everyday use in their rotaries....period.
Thanks Ian....I think....LOL
Well its true!!!....know all and bloody arrogant....then they try to blind you with all this testing and scientific drivel (DRIBBLE) as to why synthetics are so good in rotaries....you can make ANY data or discussion or theory to look favourable.
From a chemistry point of view, rather than a generalised "synthetics degrade the rubber seals" statement, it would be very interesting to understand what exactly (i.e which component(s) of the synthetic blend) attack these rubber seals, and then have some evidence to view. It would also be interesting to know which oils specifically, Mazda have tested and are basing their conclusions on. As ever, an interesting discussion/argument.
I just dont see why the Yanks are so desperate to get synth oil in these cars, if mineral works ok, then why the fduk try to fix something that aint broke?
The oil I use is ironically an American oil, 76 racing 10w 40 mineral oil. Its cheaper than synthetic slime too!
Quote from: A7NTYI just dont see why the Yanks are so desperate to get synth oil in these cars, if mineral works ok, then why the fduk try to fix something that aint broke?
The oil I use is ironically an American oil, 76 racing 10w 40 mineral oil. Its cheaper than synthetic slime too!
Ditto! I can\'t see the fuss for older rotaries.
Notice the tech bulletin implies that the 8\'s o-rings are made from a different compound by not saying the 8\'s rings are degraded but that synth oils leave deposits behind.
Again, as I sadi before, maybe it\'s not an issue in Europe if owners have used good fuel with detergents in it..?
I have always used Mineral 10w 40 - not because it\'s cheap but because it\'s what it tells you to use in the manual :yes
Shame, there are many benefits to be had from synthetics but killing your car aint one!
MMD current recommendation is Dexelia Ultra 5w-30!
http://www.franken-online.de/hgb/RX-8/Mazda-Oel.pdf
In an RX8... although the RX7\'s recommend a thicker grade, leading to a debate over the reason why the RX8 is a thinner grade, (very thin in the US... 5w20!)... it may be an economy thing, and hence there is a school of thought that moving to the 10w40 would be best... my personal opinion is that since the car is OK in the US running on 5w20, I will stick with the grade they recommend (5w30) until the engine has done 80-100K miles, then move to 10w40 to counter any wear in the engine... I\'m currently using a Semi-Synth which is not the Mazda Dexelia veriety, and I don\'t suppose I will change that... but then my warantee has expired, and it is a mineral oil that is made in the same way as the Dexelia... Of course I am biased because I have a drum of it to use... :)