Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:43:36 PM

Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:43:36 PM
I seem to be like the angel of death these days, issuing warning and problems ive had...

so here we go again.

Ive got a Bosch 040 fuel pump in my tank. I started to get a funny problem that when i boot it in 2nd or 3rd, it started to get a massive judder/backfire type thing happening.

After MUCH investigation, it turns out that it was fuel starvation, my fuel gauge was showing just over 1/4 tank, so i missed this at first.

SO, no matter what people tell you, if you have an 040 please ensure that you keep enough fuel in your tank.

BTW, i still think that the 040 is a great pump, and this shouldnt put you off using them.

cheers

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: probedb on August 17, 2006, 01:48:05 PM
Are there any alternatives to this? Is there any reason you should have to put up with a pump that needs 1/4 tank of petrol to function? Just wondering.
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: Jit on August 17, 2006, 01:49:16 PM
Id heard that the 044 needed to have 1/4 tank in it....As I understand it, the walbro doesnt...
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 01:50:04 PM
does the FD tank not have a swirl pot in it as standard ?

Most modern injection cars have a swirl pot built into the fuel tank to stop fuel surging like your suggesting.

a bosch 044 fuel pump inline fed by a intank one
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 01:50:35 PM
an 044 is an external pump not internal
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 01:51:43 PM
heres what an 044 external pump looks like

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/craign/ebay/DSC07406.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/craign/ebay/DSC07407.jpg)
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: one2watchId heard that the 044 needed to have 1/4 tank in it....As I understand it, the walbro doesnt...

have heard bad things about Walbro.

just saying my experiences

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:53:17 PM
Quote from: CraigNan 044 is an external pump not internal


READ THE POST 040!!!

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: CraigNdoes the FD tank not have a swirl pot in it as standard ?

Most modern injection cars have a swirl pot built into the fuel tank to stop fuel surging like your suggesting.

a bosch 044 fuel pump inline fed by a intank one

no swirlpot. just some baffles

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 01:57:08 PM
i know you have an 040 i was refering to one2watchs post

a swirl pot is really a good idea if one is not fitted as standard

a tank in the engine bay can be fitted, or some people modify the fuel tanks themselves
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: strange_days_uk on August 17, 2006, 01:58:15 PM
Do you think you will get the same problem with an 044 ??
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:58:50 PM
sorry geezer, was confussed, yes a swirl pot would be a solution.

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: rmagictastic on August 17, 2006, 01:59:34 PM
Oh yes and thanks to Slippers, for his technical advice on the matter.

Rmaj
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: Jit on August 17, 2006, 02:00:37 PM
I was told by Pip that the Walbro is fine.....I spose the other option moght be a supra pump?

Ref to above post, the 044 needs to have atleast 1/4 tank fuel in it.
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 02:01:23 PM
with a 044 i would do it differently

keep the intank pump and place the 044 in line jsut to increase the pressure
if you were to use a swirl pot like this

(http://www.nfauto.co.uk/images/april_2005/fuel_surge_tank.jpg)

you would use the low pressure intank pump to feed it and the high pressure pump on the outlet then to the fuel rail/s

any decent pump is going to require a decent ammount of fuel in the tank if there is no swirl pot built into it, corner hard and any pump will be starved be it internal or external.
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: peterwolds on August 17, 2006, 02:02:31 PM
ran my EVO V with a walbro pump slightly noisy at tickover but no fuel cuts
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: nikp on August 17, 2006, 02:03:11 PM
Or the Apexi BNR33 pump as i understand that is a good pump, and doesn\'t suffer the same problems (And thanks to slippers selling me his! :p)
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: CraigN on August 17, 2006, 02:16:06 PM
if there is no swirl pot in the fuel tank and you run low fuel levels then any pump will give probs in hard cornering situations
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 17, 2006, 04:32:50 PM
Apexi BNR33 is the way to go for up to 450 at the wheels it has a fuel sock as well which helps when low on fuel, I have this fitted to my current black car. no starvation problems at all even even when down to 1/8 of a tank.
The 040 outflows the existing swirl tank/baffles (what ever you wanna call it) in the fuel tank. The 040 is only good up to 350 at the wheels on my old car setup.
Warlboro is just plain nasty noisy thing ok for moderate mods on twins.
I will be looking to go back to a swirl pot and twin 044 pumps as I want more then 450 at the wheels.
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: iaint on August 17, 2006, 05:00:28 PM
Quote from: nikpOr the Apexi BNR33 pump as i understand that is a good pump, and doesn\'t suffer the same problems (And thanks to slippers selling me his! :p)

Got one of these and I managed to prove it\'s a fine pump with low fuel recently - heading to the petrol station, had a play with an Audi TT (i know, hardly a fair match) and then filled up with 66 litres - less than 1/8th tank left.  This includes whanging it round a few roundabouts too...
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: Adam on August 17, 2006, 09:56:22 PM
Had the same problem on mine Rmaj.....  thought something was wrong as it happened on the way back from pips just after i\'d rebuilt it and had the engine tuned  :(  anything under a 1/4 of a tank and it happened,....  so just kept it topped up :)  

I think it has to do how you mount the pump in the tank too....  need to get it as close to the bottom as possible

Cheers
Adam
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: gsb876 on August 18, 2006, 06:51:06 AM
Have a BNR33 pump and never had a fuel starvation issue so far in 3yrs :Party
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: JP825 on August 18, 2006, 01:17:58 PM
Quote from: gsb876Have a BNR33 pump and never had a fuel starvation issue so far in 3yrs :Party

Are these pump made for Skyline R33 or is that just a name Apexi gave them??
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: richard cash on August 18, 2006, 01:56:18 PM
can someone elplain how a swirl pot works and what the symptoms are of fuel starvation. Will it kill an engine?
Title: Bosch 040.. Warning
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 18, 2006, 02:03:51 PM
Fuel Starvation symptoms in my case was bucking of the engine when severe, when not so severe it causing the engine to lean out under boost which you may see increased knock (ie the engine light flashing). Yes it will cause engine failure in broken or cracked/warped tips. It caused my engine failure early this year spitting out a corner seal