as title how hard is it to change your twins to be non sequential ?
i presume the car will need to be remapped to cope with the extra air @ low revs ?
ta
Craig
All the info is here http://www.fd3s.net/non-sequential.html
And yep the car has to be remapped. I\'ve been looking into this for a little while but cant do it till i get an Apexi.
I have this done to my car and can recommend it! Worth getting the turbo wastegate enlarged whilst the turbos are off too.
QuoteDonato, Worth getting the turbo wastegate enlarged whilst the turbos are off too.
I think there are two ways of doing it, a quick way, and a more permanent way, i guess Donato\'s is the permanent way, correct me! i am still thinking of having mine done
Bob
Mine is the permanent way. Did it when the engine was rebuilt.
were did you purchase all the bits required ?
Quote from: CraigNwere did you purchase all the bits required ?
i believe that if you call MR. Hayward, he can do this change, and from what i hear its not expensive at all.
Rmaj
I had mine done by Carl Hayward, didn\'t take to long.
Very pleased with the outcome
Quote from: CraigNwere did you purchase all the bits required ?
Did most myself, bought john yorkes turbos which had the wastegate enlarged and made the blanking plates from aluminium alloy supplied free from one of my netal suppliers, made the gaskets from gasket paper....can\'t remember what other bits were required...?
oooh i like the idea of getting a tuner to do it lol seems a bit fidly
it involves going near the rats nest.
and let me tell you from experience, let someone else go under there!!!!!!
Rmaj
Its not too difficult, it involves removing a lot of the rats nest so any future problems are a lot easier to find! :wiggle
You do not need to remove anything from the rats nest.
But if you want to tidy up the engine you can.
There are two ways,one is reasonably easy and cheap and reversable,the other needs to be done with the turbo pack off,which is expensive mainly due to to the time involved.
It is possible to do the conversion on a stock ECU too as long as the rest of the car is fairly standard.
Regards
Carl
QuoteCarl. It is possible to do the conversion on a stock ECU too as long as the rest of the car is fairly standard.
That was to be my next question, Thanks Bob
Quote from: ro284Thanks Bob
his names carl not bob :spank
hahahaah sorry in a silly mood this mornin. i would be interested in feeling the difference between this an normal set up
It basically feels lik driving a small single, for the experience i have of sitting in a single turbo (didnt actually drive it though!)
yeah thats what i heard. im single but have had a twin before would be cool to see the difference now
Quote from: Mr J.Tyeah thats what i heard. im single but have had a twin before would be cool to see the difference now
This conversation is starting to sound like a script from a carry on film... :Laugh
Is there any difference in terms of power delivery between the quick and the permenant non-sequential conversion? I had the quick conversion done and it does feel a bit gutless below 3K revs.
I done this permanantly to the twins I bought from Dragon, ported the WG to 1.25", angled and welded the gate and removed the manifold flapper.
Within a few journeys I was sold and the Single turbo was purchased!!!! I liked the twin seq, but the NS was Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much better for me and made me realise how much I wanted the single.
If its of any help, I still have all the parts inc the turbo pack (35k miles from Dragon), hard intake pipes, filters, manifold with gate removed and plugged inducer intake pipes, Y-pipe etc £350 if you\'re interested? just PM me.
FYI, you won\'t have PM facility as you are not a member mate.
cheers
Donato
Quote from: ShyneI done this permanantly to the twins I bought from Dragon, ported the WG to 1.25", angled and welded the gate and removed the manifold flapper.
Within a few journeys I was sold and the Single turbo was purchased!!!! I liked the twin seq, but the NS was Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much better for me and made me realise how much I wanted the single.
If its of any help, I still have all the parts inc the turbo pack (35k miles from Dragon), hard intake pipes, filters, manifold with gate removed and plugged inducer intake pipes, Y-pipe etc £350 if you\'re interested? just PM me.
i am a member tho so i think im allowed to leave my email addy
Shyne
mail me if you can @
craig@craignelson.co.uk
cheers
Quote from: CraigNi am a member tho so i think im allowed to leave my email addy
Shyne
mail me if you can @
craig@craignelson.co.uk
cheers
You certainly can.. :)
Would running twin hybrids help alleviate some of the lag when going non-seq ?
Sorry Craig only just picked up on this post!!! I\'ll drop you a mail, cheers Donato, I only just noticed I don\'t have PMs on here, im slowly learning the MRC way! 8o)
Devils Ref: You can clip the primary comp to get it down or you can map some of the lag out aswell, but it really isn\'t as bad as you would think, 3.5k I think I was hitting 12psi. but for me the alleviation of the sequential system and everything that comes with it and the kick of boost when it comes online for the first time, I was sold on the Single and purchased within a few weeks of making the conversion!!!
What sort of rev range are we looking at between stock seq and non-seq then ?
Seqs come on boost about 2,500rpm for the first tub and 4,500rpm for the 2nd tub ?
What\'s the redline ?
Does the boost curve improve then for converting to non-seq ?
here is an excellent how to on the non permanent way,
http://web.archive.org/web/20030109163747/www.dontbearikki.com/id49.htm
and here, (requires registration)
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38640
I might have a few blockoff plates that I made up still at home if you want them :)
Quote from: Devil\'s RefugeeWhat sort of rev range are we looking at between stock seq and non-seq then ?
Seqs come on boost about 2,500rpm for the first tub and 4,500rpm for the 2nd tub ?
What\'s the redline ?
Does the boost curve improve then for converting to non-seq ?
Non seq we are looking at boost from 4.5, gives a totaly wrong impression of a propper single turbo, if you look at a TO4e [about on par flow wise to the TT setup] you will see boost from 3K. Rev range will not alter unless you start porting.
Non seq. is a good quick fix for non boosting second turbo, imho it mucks up the responsiveness of the turbo\'ed rotary engine. If you cant be arsed to sort out the seq. setup go for it but it does dissapoint. HTH
Thanks John. Was always under the impression a big single would be quite laggy, but from what you say if something like a T04e comes on boost at 3k then that\'s quite responsive for me. I might stick with the seq set up and change to single at a later date :)
4.5? a little bit excessive John, we were hitting 12psi before 4k(without a clipped primary wheel), even with the Apexi base map it was hitting 12 on 4k but I guess everbody maps differently.
Quote from: Shyne4.5? a little bit excessive John, we were hitting 12psi before 4k(without a clipped primary wheel), even with the Apexi base map it was hitting 12 on 4k but I guess everbody maps differently.
I suggest you try a drag with a seq. set running the same power you will be left way behind, or try a bit of track work with that set up, unless you keep it in the power band you do struggle, this is only my opinion from experience gained running stock setup twins, non seq., mid sized single and large single turbos, I know where I would spend my time and money in the future.:Thumbs-up
For something being used as a daily driver and A/B road blast, mid-sized single is the best way to you do you think ?
Just been mailed about this so thought i\'d post.
I did a full non-sequential conversion on my first FD. This was the proper full conversion, and in my eyes the only way to do it.
This involves the turbo pack of and other supporting mods carried out.
By doing it the cheap way you will not see anywhere near the full benefits of going non-sequential.
What\'s the costs and extra work required ?
Ross has beaten me to my next question (possibly prompted by knowing the answer)................ John were you full conv? wastegate porting, flapper removal, Prim WG chamber welding and transitioning etc etc didn\'t find falling out of boost a problem, but im not exactly a track virgin either. lol
Devils Ref: cost me pretty much a new pair of twins (£350) as the secondary on my stock set was toasted when I bought the car porting work required a conical carbide cutter, which was free but they cost around £7, also a welder (from work!), a grinder (or drill and disc) and some blanking plates, I made mine, but you can buy them for about £20 I think.
Not forgeting the time taken running back and forth to work to do the modding and fitting, which was a couple of days to be fair and a few bits of skin that always get shaved but always seem to grow back on the knuckles.
One other thing, if cost is an issue, then on a positive note, the bits you remove when doing the conv are all bits that Seq car runners need, sols, actuators etc so you can help some people with broken seq systems and earn back some of the cost at the same time, now theres handy! lol
Mine was a full conversion, call me picky but I just did not like the power delivery, boost came in one big hit and for me much to late and the dyno proved no more power than stock twins [within 2hp!] if you can afford it go for a single convesion, non seq. twins are more laggy:rolleyes:
Put it this way if you want to launch at 5-6k you will see a benifit but hay that is a lot of shock through your drive train:Hammer
As stated before it is a good way of getting rid of 2nd turbo blues but as a power mod personaly it did not work for me.