Hi, i have had problems with my 13b getting too hot, the car has only been back on the road a couple of months and i took it for a fair long drive today after cruising at 80ish for about 5 mins she\'s got really warm (i know its hot but), now the rad was is fine and when the engine was in my other Series 1 she never got warm, and it does\'nt get warm on tick over in traffic so i can only think of 2 things that would be different
A i have put a mesh on the front on the intake would that stop enough air flow?
B my partner works for Cummings desiel and get lots of nice cheap stuff like oil and battery\'s so i got a 20ltr tub of antifreeze for like £15 but it does say it is for industrial deisel engines could that be it? i have added a picture to show the mixture
any ideas would help as the car is suppose to be going to Manchester to have the weber fitted but i dont think i would like the trip at 60 all the way
Just remembered i had to refit the intake manifold could the channels be blocked with sealent?
Thanks
Mark
What fan system are you running ?:2Confused
Theres not a lot of frontal area for cooling there, the standard front bumper must have over twice that area. Is it a difference in the gauges ? I know oldschool sensors have a different calibration to the newer ones fitted in later rotaries (I have read that somewhere as it applies when swapping newer engines into older cars)
Some of the more dense mesh can really restrict air flow. Is there a way you can take it out to try?
Also you\'ll get far better summer cooling running less antifreeze. I\'d only run it as 50/50 in winter. I think 10% mix should be plenty.
Try draining some off and topping with water.
Thanks all kinda confirms my thoughts i like the look of the mess but i dont think it\'s helping, i will water down the mix, is it the right stuff to be using? i know pip used some mad green stuff when the engine was built
just using the standard fan seems to be cooling ok at stand still, as i say she never over heated before only difference being the mess and coolant
Thanks
Mark
what sort of cost is it to upgrade the fan?
do you think any vents in the front nose panel or bonnet will help as when the weber gets fitted i like plenty of air flow
Mark
More vents in the bumper would be a great idea. Maybe try and find a bumper with bigger holes.
As for the mesh, yeah get shot of it.
Fish
Mark,
Looking at the front of your car theres no other place for air to get into the engine but from the area you have placed the mesh, now the mesh looks quite thick as well so its not good, as others have said the option is to take the mesh out and either get some very thinner linked mesh or lose it all together. But i would deffo take it off and see if it makes a difference.
The coolant question is a interesting one as i\'m sure i read somewhere you have to be careful as to which coolant type you use for the rotary engine as a certain type eats away at the seals? can anyone confirm this please ?? :Nono!
i have to agree and i thought it would be the answer to loose the mesh shame i do like it, should be fun getting it off!
i will drop some coolant out and top up with water, next question being tap or distilled?
hope it doesn\'t eat up any bunnies without the mesh there\'s a lot round here near santa pod!!!
Thanks for the advice guys always good to hear that someone else is in agrement
Mark
BTW you need some fuel very shortly :D
Thanks, about 6miles i recon!!!
should have plenty of coolant with the 20ltr\'s!!
Mark
I run about 5% coolant,electric fan manual controlled,in the beginning of summer I had a prob with it running to cold,...freeway temps 75degC.Today it was 33degC only outside,running on freeway temps were 80degC.Temps went up to 85degC in bad traffic holdup before freeway !!:Typing
If you want to keep small openings you will have to start thinking of putting the rad and oil cooler at an angle to maximise the usage of the air coming in.
Quote from: oldoneI run about 5% coolant,electric fan manual controlled,in the beginning of summer I had a prob with it running to cold,...freeway temps 75degC.Today it was 33degC only outside,running on freeway temps were 80degC.Temps went up to 85degC in bad traffic holdup before freeway !!:Typing
If you want to keep small openings you will have to start thinking of putting the rad and oil cooler at an angle to maximise the usage of the air coming in.
No oil rad just a larger water rad she used to be fine so it must be the mesh a electric fan could still be a good idea to get some air into the engine bay to feed the new carb!!
Mark
Quote from: mpk490pi will drop some coolant out and top up with water, next question being tap or distilled?
Mark
Mark, use distilled.
Fish
howzit :)
hope i read wrong but no oil radiator ?
big no no running no oil cooler on a rotary engine, best to use a series 1 or 2 if under radiator or a series 4/5, series 3 ones under the oil filter no good for mod engines :)
2 cents have you za thermostat in it ? if not you need to put one back in or block off the big hole in the waterpump housing :) or it will run hot and cause air bubbles :)
ps car looks cool :) well done :)
later
glen
Quote from: drutinhowzit :)
hope i read wrong but no oil radiator ?
big no no running no oil cooler on a rotary engine, best to use a series 1 or 2 if under radiator or a series 4/5, series 3 ones under the oil filter no good for mod engines :)
2 cents have you za thermostat in it ? if not you need to put one back in or block off the big hole in the waterpump housing :) or it will run hot and cause air bubbles :)
ps car looks cool :) well done :)
later
glen
The series 3 drop the oil rad i have fins under the oil filter to cool it and the water rad was upgraded, the thermostat should be fine but it will be the next thing to check after the mesh has come off and if there\'s no improvment
Thanks
Mark
howzit :)
my 2 cents if its a decent motor i would use the oil cooler not the small water/oil cooler under the oil filter like on the series 3
but depends how you drive :) for me i use the normal series 1/2 type :)
ie http://www.rotorworks.co.nz/MVI_2652.AVI (38.4MB)
later
Oil cooling is major factor in the life of a ROTARY,if it is neglected then unfortunately the motor will suffer failures.............:yes.I was driving at midday today,town and freeway,and again my temps never went beyond 85degC..:)
i will have a word with pip at WGT i used to have a oil coller aswell but i sold it (it was from another rex i had)
Mark
I\'ve got a 2nd gen on for my 323, they have a thermostat and pressure bypass thingy all built in. Simple to fit as well as they come with some sensible looking brackets + I think the 2nd gen ones are less suceptable to the cracking problems that the early ones suffer around the fittings.
I had a spare but its now going on a hillman imp with a K series lump in the back :Giggle
Don\'t forget ducting... very important. This is a drawing of a VERY good cooling system for a light aircraft, something similar in your car would be a good idea with such a small air inlet. Good to see it in the flesh at the Pod the other week, top job
(http://www.rotaryeng.net/L-W-K-M-diffuser.jpg)
Thanks, i was up there with my younger brother so unfortunatly i didnt spend much time with the car, will be at Peterborough though for the 2 days so i might get everyone\'s ideas together there (before we start drinking other wish it will have a blower on it or something!!!)
Thanks
Mark
Found a 12" electric fan on flebay near me so i might go for that in front of the rad and just hook it up to a switch, do you think that will pull enough air in?
Thanks
Mark
may well do.. use fat wires and a good relay
Quote from: drutinhowzit :)
my 2 cents if its a decent motor i would use the oil cooler not the small water/oil cooler under the oil filter like on the series 3
but depends how you drive :) for me i use the normal series 1/2 type :)
ie http://www.rotorworks.co.nz/MVI_2652.AVI (38.4MB)
later
That looks like Don giving it big beans!!
Mark
if its getting hot sat at 80mph I doubt a fan is going to make much difference ? Those mechanical fans shift lots of air anyway. Only real reason to ditch one is
1. Space
2. less parasitic losses as when an electric fan is off its totally off, a viscous fan has some drag even when uncoupled (not as much as some make out though)
3. The viscous fan is broken
4. You want to control the point at which the fan kicks in more accurately. The viscous ones seem like they would be a bit hit and miss as to when the engage to me
Quote from: MikeLMRif its getting hot sat at 80mph I doubt a fan is going to make much difference ? Those mechanical fans shift lots of air anyway. Only real reason to ditch one is
1. Space
2. less parasitic losses as when an electric fan is off its totally off, a viscous fan has some drag even when uncoupled (not as much as some make out though)
3. The viscous fan is broken
4. You want to control the point at which the fan kicks in more accurately. The viscous ones seem like they would be a bit hit and miss as to when the engage to me
to be honest Mike i was going to place the electric fan infront of the rad and leave the Viscous where it is (would that work?)
mark
Quote from: MikeLMRif its getting hot sat at 80mph I doubt a fan is going to make much difference ? Those mechanical fans shift lots of air anyway. Only real reason to ditch one is
4. You want to control the point at which the fan kicks in more accurately. The viscous ones seem like they would be a bit hit and miss as to when the engage to me
I initially put a 16inch 3200 cfm electric fan on mine an the temps were really erratic, as they were with my FD. I put the stock fan on my FC and the temps are really steady, they very rarely move on the Power FC and sit between 34 and 37 what ever the weather.
I agree with the mesh idea, no point putting an electric fan on, the fan is only there to push air through when the car is stationary. If its getting hot at speed, then its the air flow. That is quite a small vent in your bumper
maybe its steadier with a viscous fan as its not an on/off thing, they are always moving a little air ... not sure how they lockup ? but being a fluid clutch I guess its quite progressive ?
As Mike says at 80MPH an electric fan is doing NOTHING as the air flow has long taken over by then
You may be interested to know that at 80MPH the temp WILL rise on a third gen that has had its undertray removed so I would ask the question "have you left of any bits of tin from under the front of the engine bay that could have been directing air"
Sorry can\'t remember off the top of my head the tin wear under the front of a Gen 1 but I think there is some ?
The undertray is on there, i having the nose resprayed in the next couple of weeks so i will take the grill off then and \'Suck it and see!:2Confused
Thanks
Mark
keh ? that looks like don giving it big beans ? :)
so dont understand your lingo :) please explain :)
another 2 cents :)
it might pay to hook the fan upto the ignition or a thermosensor, reason being
have mates that hooked the fan to a switch and usual weekend burnouts etc didnt turn it on until to late and cooked the water seals so upto to you :)
but have to admit we quite hard on our rotors :) they do take the punishment well though :)
later
glen
Quote from: drutinkeh ? that looks like don giving it big beans ? :)
so dont understand your lingo :) please explain :)
another 2 cents :)
it might pay to hook the fan upto the ignition or a thermosensor, reason being
have mates that hooked the fan to a switch and usual weekend burnouts etc didnt turn it on until to late and cooked the water seals so upto to you :)
but have to admit we quite hard on our rotors :) they do take the punishment well though :)
later
glen
Sorry Don has a series 1 the same colour and big beans is my way of saying a good thrashing!!
Mark
howzit :)
sweet me understand now :)
cheers :)
and yes foot flat to the floor that video, poor little 12a carb :) ha ha
bet the apex seal springs are getting to be a funny shape :)
later
Just to updated on the over heating problem,
driving to a friends today coming of a roundabout foot down and snap!!
warning lights on, fan belt gone, i\'d just ordered a belt from Mazda as the aftermarket one\'s are spinded and dont do the job, it either screached or chewed it up, problem was it made it very loose.
thought not a big problem i was near a Halfords so got a new belt long story short this one had more teeth on it (just by chance really) fitted the belt no problems didnt chew it up nor did it screach, did a few miles checked it no problems, went for a good drive and she felt quicker (sill i know) and no problems overheating!!!
sat at 100 for 15 mins and she stayed below half way, so i\'m well happy the grill stay\'s and no more screatching!!!!
Mark:D
have you not got a double pulley on the alternator ? twin belts are normally accepted to be necessary to drive the waterpump even with the airpump etc. removed.
Quote from: MikeLMRhave you not got a double pulley on the alternator ? twin belts are normally accepted to be necessary to drive the waterpump even with the airpump etc. removed.
Just a single on the Alternator, was looking into getting a double do you know where from? (seen them at racing beat)
Thanks
Mark