Mazda Rotary Club

cant beleive what happened yesterday. I was just driving it about, seemed fine when all of a sudden the engine just went pop. Only running on one rotor. Checked everything over and the engine bay looked fine. I never thought that it would go after having a rebuilt done so was very shocked. only had 2K on the engine! Im skint now frmo the first rebuild so am having a  mate take then engine out and having it rebuilt on its own to save on labour but its still more expense than i was expecting. trying very hard now to get it back up and running for the summer, where another 1000miles running it in in heavy holiday maker traffic awaits me:Hammer

U not get it rebuilt by a tuner lad?? Warranty etc...

Mate of mine rebuilt his engine and put the bearings for the oil pump the wrong way around and it ran dry and had to get new everything nearly!!

Hope theres not too much damage done!!

rxmotors rebuilt it, reworx mapped it. Didnt think i could have got a much safer bet than that. Guess i was wrong! I wont be singing the praises of the rex to my mates anymore, lol.

^ surely you\'ve got a warrenty then?

Yeah Im sure Rxmotors offers a warranty on it, give Tim a ring and ask

Quote from: ds2000^ surely you\'ve got a warrenty then?

seconded! Call RX motors and/or RE Worx and see what they say

apparently warrenty isnt offered for detination which is what will cause the engine to fail. After a chat with both ive come to the conclusion that any warrenty on a moddified engine is worth sh!t. They wont honour a warrenty as they say anything could have happened, for example, a boost pipe could have come off or something and it would have made the engine run lean and this could have produced det. They will only cover a standard engine from what i can gather as they can just palm any other problem off with det issues which they say arent their fault. Thats fair enough but they should state this on their website or somewhere just so the regular guy knows that the warrenty isnt worth the paper its written on.

Tim said that as the engine has been rebuilt recently im only going to need to change the rotor and housings etc that are associated with the lack of compression and not change everything. if i take the engine outmyself this will further reduce the cost he will charge. So after te initial shock it isnt going to be as bad as i thought financially, but i still need it rebuilt, then ran in again and then another remap to make sure its all ok again.

this topic isnt for me to moan about the builders/tuners as i dont tend to like to do that, its more of a warning for people thinking of having their mildly/highly moddified car rebuilt...... treat the warrenty as useless.

Jesus thats mad!! So what happens if a standard engine goes pop and it was a boost pipe!! They can put detonation down to the weather if they really wanted to!!!

Hope u get it sorted man and at a small cost!!

That\'s really terrible....Can\'t believe it really....If an engine\'s been rebuilt and put back together properly surely you shouldn\'t get boost pipes just popping off. I would have thought the only question the rebuilder should have is \'has it been properly run in?\' And that could be difficult to prove I suppose. That is really bad luck though..:(

So have you found out what was the problem, what caused it?

Quote from: AndyGen3Jesus thats mad!! So what happens if a standard engine goes pop and it was a boost pipe!!

Quotei asked that and the response was that the standard ECU would be able to cope with things like this. Im guessing it has a safe mode and the PFC doesnt. Im no expert so i have to take what rxmotors/reworx say. But just using common sense has lead me to beleive the warrenty thing is just a marketing gimmick.

\'has it been properly run in

Quote from: AndyGen3\'has it been properly run in

Quoterun in great, Tim said to do it for 500miles, others for 1000. I ran it in for 500miles at 3000revs, 500miles at around4500revs max, then 200miles at varying revs with no boost. I also check coolant and oil every week, top up the water injection and check the PFC sensors at least once every 20mins whilst driving, i never put the engine under load when cold and always let it cool down after driving.

Quote from: AndyGen3So have you found out what was the problem, what caused it?

Quoteafter speaking with reworx now, they have said it is likely to be my alarm !!! aparently mazda use 4mm wire for the ignition, and the installers generally use 1mm wire, this can fook up the coil packs and make them run lean because of not enough current. they have said this has happened to 2 cars of theirs in the last 2 months and this is the reason why. This will be seen though when i take the engine out as ill get tim to inspect the coils. Ill also have the injectors tested too.

sorry to hear about your car... :( hope everything gets sorted

Are you talking to the real reworx?  

:(

If I was a vendor I would NEVER give a guarentee on a \'modified\\race motor\' as we all know the motor will be thrashed\\abused at the first oppurtunity.....its the age old honesty thing...you can vouch for your workmanship but not the parts installed,that should be the guarentee....hope I make myself clear on that one,if not we will try a diff language :guinness

ds2000 is there an imposter reworx bit confused didnt know there was 2

It\'s like manufacturers: warrenty is void if you modify your car past standard.

Quote from: nikpIt\'s like manufacturers: warrenty is void if you modify your car past standard.

Yeah, but not if the rebuilder does the modifying, no?

I\'m totally surprised by this - surely the rebuilder has to honour the warrenty, or risk being shamed and held in disrepute?

Cheers, Paul.

edit: sorry, was confused by similar names (reworks and rxmotors) - obviously not the same company and yes, that would invalidate a warrenty...

If its not down to the tuner because of the wrong ignition cable then i\'d look into taking the person who installed the alarm to small claims court, or at least get something towards a rebuild.

Its substandard work on the alarm front, god only knows how many rx7 they have installed alarms to !

Sorry for your loss

Shaun

^^ Alarms!?

the alarm will be off when engine is running and would not affect the ignition at all most alarms cut the circuit to the starter motor and or fuel pump have never heard of them having direct cut to the coil pack and the alarm will have to be disabled for the car to start
have u got wrong end of the stick as regards the alarm making it run lean
this doesnt make any sense as any lean running would appear when mapping and is affected by fuel/air.bad spark will cause poor running and missfire but not running lean

Quoteafter speaking with reworx now, they have said it is likely to be my alarm !!! aparently mazda use 4mm wire for the ignition, and the installers generally use 1mm wire, this can fook up the coil packs and make them run lean because of not enough current. they have said this has happened to 2 cars of theirs in the last 2 months and this is the reason why. This will be seen though when i take the engine out as ill get tim to inspect the coils. Ill also have the injectors tested too

Obviously i dont know the full detaisl but from what you are saying, it sounds like a classic reworx shift of blame if you ask me....

no it couldnt be a problem with their work...it never is.

Ive never heard of any alarm having a cut on the coil packs....mainly ignition. I dont know if they use fuel pump either although ive installed a mates alarm with a fuel pump cut.

Oh and i agree, a tuners warranty isnt worth the paper its written on....hence why i say if you have the means and ability to do it, rebuild it yourself...if you want a job done properly....

Most alarms seem to cut in to the 12v supply line which feeds the ignition.

The alarm may well be off, but the original wires are still cut in to and go through the alarm system.

Several times I\'ve had cars that run fine on the dyno up to a certain rev / load point, and then the ignition suddenly starts missing.

Shove a direct 12v feed to the ignition from the battery and the miss goes.

Alarms are a very real problem on many FD\'s I\'ve tuned.

Good luck sorting your engine Richard :)

Not sure where running lean has come from. The alarm wiring CAN cause the coils to break down and therefore not fire the spark to the plugs. Generaly this is found cars running over 300 rwhp. Also we need to remember that all the ancillarys on our engines are mostly 12+ years old!

This thread is bad news for those of us running highly modified cars.

Did you have the alarm fitted after reworx mapped it ?? If not I\'m unsure how they can attribute the fault to the alarm installation. If it was causing ignition problems, surely they would have shown up on the dyno ?
 

Also how can having poor ignition cause a lean condition, can someone enlighten me ?? Surely it has the opposite effect and leaves a load of unburned fuel ??

How can anyone be sure what caused the failure without tearing it down and examining the remains ?? Surely this is the first thing that should have happened ??

Amazed rx motors and / or reworx didn\'t offer to investigate before turning you away. Be interested to hear the full facts of all this when it\'s all over and done with as with many of these threads, things are a lot more complicated than they at first seem.

Bottom line is you need to know what failed in order to lay blame at anyones door. I\'d be ****ed off in your shoes though.

 I am very interested to know \'in detail please\' how an alarm can cause an engine to blow up!
 
 I would say 90% of FD\'s have some sort of Alarm fitted, so this means everyones driving on a time bomb... :evillaugh

 Sorry I call Bullsh1t on this theory unless it can be proven..........

Quote from: TRex
 I am very interested to know \'in detail please\' how an alarm can cause an engine to blow up!
 
 I would say 90% of FD\'s have some sort of Alarm fitted, so this means everyones driving on a time bomb... :evillaugh

 Sorry I call Bullsh1t on this theory unless it can be proven..........

Thanks for your faith in what I\'ve told you, but there you go, I\'ve tried to explain what i\'ve seen and done. I\'ll leave it at that. What do I know after all?

so the origanal wire from ignition barrel to coil pack is snipped, joined to the alarm wiring and then back to the origanl wiring?
It makes sense then going from purposfull high ampage wire going down to door bell type wire and then back to high ampage wire!
the coil pack will require a high current for a good spark, and it wont get it through bell wire!!
if some alarms are wired like this then it does make sense when the engine needs a strong spark at high power

maybe you need to elaborate max a bit more on how a poor supply to the ignition can cause detonation which is essentially what it sounds like (ill choose my words carefully) reworx are implying (from what richard is saying) that a poor current to the coil pack has caused a lean condition.
Now my knowledge is quite limited but unburnt fuel in the combsution chamber does not mean det and it doesnt create a hot condition in the chamber either since the excess fuel cools the whole lot down....

a weak spark on a running engine will cause it to overheat, it will not cause it to lean out at all mate.
the det could only occur this was through to high combustion temps due to weak  spark.
your fueling would not alter cause its nothing to do with the coil pack wiring.

overheat or cause there to be more unburnt fuel? I would have thought that unburnt fuel has a cooling effect hence why you add fuel on turbocharged cars and run slightly richer afrs? is that not the case with weak spark?

Yet another thread that has gone off the rails, reading through this it started as a warning about after market alarms and the affect this has on the ignition system and all of a sudden we have people comming out of the woodwork poo pooing the proposition, modify any engine / car and the manufacturer will not honor the warantee so why should it be any different for an engine builder / tuner?
I have been around this forum from the beguining and seen it grow to what it is today, sometimes it seems to me there starts a witch hunt, for whatever reason which is why I have always maintained that it is better to resolve any issues in private BEFORE comming on the boards kicking up dust for all and sundry that have thier own axe to grind.
I for one can see the logic in what Max and CJR are reporting and we prehaps should maybe paying some attention to what is being said and hopefully save a few more engines going west.

Quote from: one2watch..... are implying (from what richard is saying) that a poor current to the coil pack has caused a lean condition.

This got mis-communicated somewhere in the translation ;)

We\'re talking about a possible problem with the alarm causing an ignition misfire, nothing to do with fuelling.

hence why i was choosing my words carefully max....no witch hunt here....just thogutht that if thats what reworx were saying, then it sounds like crap!

what happens to an engine when it runs rich?
what happens to an engine with a weaker spark?
overheating on any engine,
this could cause det over time.

back in my old pushrod n/a engine days with carburetors, a weak spark would make the engine pink and overheat, run the carb to rich and it would pink and overheat after a drive,  this pinking on a turbocharged engine is  detonation.
Its the same principle

My question is still not answered...

 Is the 90% or so FD\'s in the UK or the world for that matter that has got an Alarm fitted, are they in dire risk of bombing?



 Like the chap above, I ain\'t shooting down anyone, a question is raised and I think needs addressing as it\'s possible hundreds if not thousands of cars are at risk of losing their engine!

 So instead of thumbing us down, just explain in simple terms for everyone the fact of these claims!

ive never seen an alarm wired up this way so i wouldnt worry to much, you could test with a ameter or multimeter the difference what the coil pack is receiving with the alarm wire and compare it to normal wire fd, u need to measure what ampage the coil pack can draw.
It makes sense to me if the wire is smaller, the engine builder is not to blame.
The problem is the guys fitting the alarms fit them in less than an hour sometimes, and just snip away not thinking why the wire is 4mm!!!!

also to much current draw through a small wire can cause fires!!
the wire gets red hot drawing the max it can and can sometimes melt.
My mate re wired a wiring loom on an old zodiac and it set on fire cause he used the wrong size wire, all the loom melted and set the dash on fire!!

My Clifford alarm allegedly disables the car via 4 different points.  Something like Fuel pump, coils, injectors and something else!  I can certainly see ho there could be problems from a 1mm wire vs a 4mm wire.

As for members and guests calling Max a liar in his recounting of his EXPERIENCES mapping many FDs - please back this up with something concrete.  

I\'ve known Max since I first got my FD and he\'s one of the most decent blokes I\'ve had the pleaseure of meeting in the scene (and there are a lot of decent people around here).  I don\'t believe he\'s dishonest or prone to exaggeration and would take what he says about this as a likely issue.  Well worth keeping in view when modding our cars.

i think the full circumstances of the blow need to be stated ie under boost or after being on boost as a ignition misfire is more likely under high load or rpm which is why twin power kits are added to high boost engines to provide better/stronger spark but if the engine popped under no load/boost then this wld not indicate that ignition missfire wld be a prob.most good quality alarms wld maybe not use 4mm wire but wld doubt they use 1mm wire as clifford is pretty thick wire in their syst.detonation is highly unlikely in a off boost situ so maybe we could have a accurate account of the exact details that the engine popped.

Hopefully only the the tips need replacing, cant see why the housings will need to be changed if changed recently.

Anyway we dont know the real cause until the engine is stripped.
One failure I had was where the oil injection on the rear rotor failed and caused the tips to warp and lead to loss in compression, intially I though it was det that caused it but I was wrong , so fingers crossed for you mate that only your tips need replacing

I had an engine blow up after an reworx rebuild and mapping session. They suggested it was due to the alarm, it actually turned out to be due to the wastegate actuator bracket being bent (engine came from written off car in Japan) therefore not opening it fully and cuasing a boost spike!
They helped me out big time at Reworx with the rebuild and rewired my alarm for me for free too.
I still can\'t get my head around how interfearing with the coil pack makes the engine run lean, but Geoff does know his stuff, so he must know something we don\'t!

QuoteI still can\'t get my head around how interfearing with the coil pack makes the engine run lean

He didn\'t say it ran lean! He said it misfired! And he did say people were also mis-reading what he wrote.

Quote from: BlitzBoyHopefully only the the tips need replacing, cant see why the housings will need to be changed if changed recently.

Anyway we dont know the real cause until the engine is stripped.
One failure I had was where the oil injection on the rear rotor failed and caused the tips to warp and lead to loss in compression, intially I though it was det that caused it but I was wrong , so fingers crossed for you mate that only your tips need replacing

if it did detonate it may have caused damage to the housings as the tip makes it way of the engine, and it may damage the turbo also.

I had an engine fail for exactly the same reason, oil injection failed and jammed a tip....

I\'m afraid pulling the engine apart is unlikely to show what killed it,  if it detonated it could be for so many reasons,   coils, plugs, injectors, vacume pipe, map sensor, air temp sensor, too much boost, cheap fuel, wastegate, boost controller.   Unless while stripping it you find a pipe to the wastegate off or something as obvious, then you wont find out what caused it,  but Richard needs to check all h can before he justs rebuilds it to ensure it doesnt happen again.

As for the alarm,   its seems quite straight forward to me,  all new alarm wiring i have seen is very thin,  but this may not be the only problem,  the alarm box that cuts the power to the coils also makes the connection to enable them to work, if this connection is made through a small circuit board then it just wont carry the current. It should be run through a decent relay.

 We all know RX7s need massive ignition current compared with other cars, the stock FD ignition needs uprating over about 1 bar (generally).  If your car runs rich then it will get hotter,  you can see the EGT\'s go through the roof if the car is running rich and the turbo will glow red more than usual.

On the 20b FD the ignition was failing at higher boost on the rollers, so ReWorx replaced the wiring on the alarm to the coils to cure it.  That is a brand new clifford.

It is so easy to kill a rotary engine running high boost,  if you were building an engine would you give a warranty when the owner wants it as fast as possible and there is little knob on the boost controller next to the stereo that will tweak the boost just a little cos they think it will make it go faster and cant make that much difference...............   these things arnt like a piston engine, there is no margin for error.  Any changes at all to my car, and i have mapped,  :WaveBye

Guys, the more i read about this alarm wire killing your engine, more im ****ting myself.  Could someone here tell us all; what and where this time bomb wire is so we can all check and may replace it.....:mad:

^ I agree, the buck is being passed with this one.  If you had modified the engine since their build then its your problem, as you haven\'t, it is most definitely theres!

Just to clarify something...

Running lean does not break Apex seals.
Running Hot does not break Apex seals.

BUT...
Running lean or hot leads to DETONATION ( knock, ping, pinking, pre-ignition).

Detonation (or misfire) breaks Apex seals.

laeeq different alarms will have it snipped in different places.if ur car has been mapped then ignition break up wld have been spotted hopefully.better course of action wld maybe be to get hks twin power amplifier and this shd boost the spark to compensate just in case.maybe we are mixing the 2 situations modded cars require a stronger spark and under heavy load the spark is probably faltering a bit whether that is caused by the alarm is another matter.i am planning on getting the twin power as a precaution against ignition break up..i have a clifford alarm and mine has been  on the reworx rollers and had about 20 power runs and has no reported ignition break up problems but only running 1.1 bar so this engine pop can be down to many things as according to the guys first post he hasnt boosted it at all during running in and i don see how det could occur with no boost certainly not enough to break a tip.when i blew mine it was blasting along with a faulty vac feed to fpr and a dodgy secondary injector.get a hks twin power and get it checked for ignition but i wouldnt rush off to get the alarm rewired just yet

Quote from: John Yorkeit is better to resolve any issues in private BEFORE comming on the boards kicking up dust for all and sundry

Been there tried that. :rolleyes:

Quote from: rx7veilsidelaeeq different alarms will have it snipped in different places.if ur car has been mapped then ignition break up wld have been spotted hopefully.better course of action wld maybe be to get hks twin power amplifier and this shd boost the spark to compensate just in case.

I had this fitted to mine as a precautionary measure.  Mainly becaus the car\'s 14+ years old and it makes sense to ensure that side of things is working as well as possible.  Only running 1.1bar too so it might not be needed but it\'s a good safety measure.

Quote from: ds2000^ I agree, the buck is being passed with this one.  If you had modified the engine since their build then its your problem, as you haven\'t, it is most definitely theres!

doesn\'t really matter who modified the engine, if you build a heavily modified engine, you expect it to be run hard. Very few builders would be happy to offer a full warranty for a modified engine, remember these engines were built to produce 265-280bhp (yes I know, manufacturers build in safety, emmissions, reliability, etc), but if you are running say 350-400bhp (at the fly) that is 25-35% up on the standard, remember the major components are still standard mazda units that were oringinally intended for 265-280bhp redline of about 7800rpm, 0.9-1BAR boost, etc. All of these parameters are changed when we modify, therefore the engine life is potentially reduced. Also as the power increases, other components are affected and fail, these components may not be the sort of components that would normally be replaced during a rebuild.

Anyway, back on topic, hope you get the engine sorted and this is a good example of how we can all learn about certain weaknesses that
a) are not obvious
b) may well affect a number of us
c) should be easy to sort but potentially catastrophic if not fixed

I for one will be asking Tim to check the wiring of my Clifford when he re wires my ignitor module

Thanks for that, im back on me seat again..... the car has got an aftermarkeet ignition amp and was on the car when mapped at re-worx to run 1.12 bar and there wasn\'t any thing reported as to ignition break up, so it should be ok but im still gonna get it checked by someone soon....

Quote from: rx7veilsidelaeeq different alarms will have it snipped in different places.if ur car has been mapped then ignition break up wld have been spotted hopefully.better course of action wld maybe be to get hks twin power amplifier and this shd boost the spark to compensate just in case.maybe we are mixing the 2 situations modded cars require a stronger spark and under heavy load the spark is probably faltering a bit whether that is caused by the alarm is another matter.i am planning on getting the twin power as a precaution against ignition break up..i have a clifford alarm and mine has been  on the reworx rollers and had about 20 power runs and has no reported ignition break up problems but only running 1.1 bar so this engine pop can be down to many things as according to the guys first post he hasnt boosted it at all during running in and i don see how det could occur with no boost certainly not enough to break a tip.when i blew mine it was blasting along with a faulty vac feed to fpr and a dodgy secondary injector.get a hks twin power and get it checked for ignition but i wouldnt rush off to get the alarm rewired just yet

Alarms = bad :)

Not only do they p1ss me off to maximum effect, with the unecessary and uncalled for whining and screeching, self locking, self window closing nonsense but they also can cause ignition problems... ...wow.

Quote from: nikpHe didn\'t say it ran lean! He said it misfired! And he did say people were also mis-reading what he wrote.

As did I, sorry.

QuoteBlitzboy One failure I had was where the oil injection on the rear rotor failed and caused the tips to warp and lead to loss in compression,

Just as a matter of interest, i thought the ecu would go into limp mode! if the ecu sensed this fault, or does that mean you had Apexi which does not?
I run premix in the hope of avoiding any risk,
iv\'e never heard of the alarm problem before, will have to delve deeper for my peace of mind! I have beefed up the earth wiring to heavy guage stuff, but that\'s only one side of the problem, (but it helped)
Bob

just a quicky.

Does a weak spark cause detonantion in any shape way or form???

Rmaj

Quote from: rmagictasticjust a quicky.

Does a weak spark cause detonantion in any shape way or form???

Rmaj

I\'d imagine that the main impact of a weak spark is to cause a weak flame front (the FD has two plugs per rotor to ensure an even flame front).  This would certainly play havoc with the timing and may lead to an extended burn period well beyond the expected combustion cycle of the engine.

No clue how this would cause tip failure though.

lets get together and import 600 ls1/t56 v8 combos and then we could kiss goodbye to rebuilds.i have never known any engine to be so prone to going pop as the rotary.no wonder they never sold in great numbers in this country
can anyone hand on heart saythe rotary is a reliable engine.i love the look of the car but we all seem to be just waiting for our engine to go pop.i know there will be plenty who say it is reliable but do the maths at just how many have gone pop.they seem so fragile that the slightest thing and POP mine has had 2 rebuilds one before i got it and one since and was only running 1 bar when it popped and spat 2 seals out.
the problem in this particular case is one company built it and one mapped it so although both have a good rep who is going to want to bite the bullet
if a company builds and maps ur car and offers a warranty then that warranty will be binding unless specifically worded about what is not covered
otherwise said warranty isnt worth the paper it is written on
all the while we have boost controllers there is an element of mistrust as on a ecu controlled boost pattern people cant have a little tweak
the first post was a liitle vague abouth the circumstances of the engines demise and i think a more accurate breakdown of how the failure occured was needed
as i stated my secondary injector was bad flowing and fpr vac pipe had a hole and ran lean causing det to occur
if i had the dosh i would plop a nice 400bhp/400ft lb ls1 in my car and then relax knowing that it wasnt going to pop with the first problem
a lot of the pleasure of these cars is lost due to reliability issues

Quotea lot of the pleasure of these cars is lost due to reliability issues

Your absolutely right there matey. Ive owned mine for 2 years now and it has never been 100 percent ever!! Ive had the car on my drive for 3 weeks this year, and i bloody hate the stupid thing now. who wants to own a car, that when the slightest thing happens to it you either have to drive to manchester or the south coast to get it fixed. Wish i had never bothered:yes

Sad about the last two posts, i don\'t think it\'s very encouraging for any perspective new owners! most of the cars that go pop are surely highly modified, and they are often 14 years old imports! mine failed only because of corrosion!
Bob

I don\'t think the rotary pre-se is unreliable, compared to a big block pushrod Chevy which revs to 6k and last 100000000miles, yes, but compared to more modern technology - VTEC, RB26, etc these engines are stressed and as such require more looking after. I think in this country a lot of it is down to how we use them. There are a number of FDs in the US that have gone 100k on one engine, these engines do not like heavy traffic = heat build up, or roads are prone to a lot of traffic and if used daily in town the engine life is bound to suffer. I still maintan that a full rotary rebuild is a lot less than a full RB26 rebuild, and although the RB26 is supposed to be bulletproof just look on the GTR OC and see how many owners have had to fork out £10k + for engine rebuilds!

gandy itotally agree i let my heart rule my head and have been paying out ever since..wish i had bought a supra/evo or another scooby,hell even my 3 door 21yr old cossie never had these issues.in the states people got so fed up with rebuilding rotaries that loads have now gone the v8 route and i will have to keep mine as i refuse to sell it for 10000 as i have spent that much on mods.i will over the next few years seriously consider putting a bit aside here and there to pay for a v8 transplant they can be run off the standard gm ecu and will happily run 400bhp and about the same torque and do 25mpg and not destroy the ozone layer every time u start it

Quote from: rx7veilsidelets get together and import 600 ls1/t56 v8 combos and then we could kiss goodbye to rebuilds.i have never known any engine to be so prone to going pop as the rotary.no wonder they never sold in great numbers in this country
can anyone hand on heart saythe rotary is a reliable engine.i love the look of the car but we all seem to be just waiting for our engine to go pop.i know there will be plenty who say it is reliable but do the maths at just how many have gone pop.they seem so fragile that the slightest thing and POP mine has had 2 rebuilds one before i got it and one since and was only running 1 bar when it popped and spat 2 seals out.
the problem in this particular case is one company built it and one mapped it so although both have a good rep who is going to want to bite the bullet
if a company builds and maps ur car and offers a warranty then that warranty will be binding unless specifically worded about what is not covered
otherwise said warranty isnt worth the paper it is written on
all the while we have boost controllers there is an element of mistrust as on a ecu controlled boost pattern people cant have a little tweak
the first post was a liitle vague abouth the circumstances of the engines demise and i think a more accurate breakdown of how the failure occured was needed
as i stated my secondary injector was bad flowing and fpr vac pipe had a hole and ran lean causing det to occur
if i had the dosh i would plop a nice 400bhp/400ft lb ls1 in my car and then relax knowing that it wasnt going to pop with the first problem
a lot of the pleasure of these cars is lost due to reliability issues

I love when people say this... U think an LS1 wont give u problems?? Snap out of it man any engine can give u problems...

Ive had my Fd to the ring, many trackdays and drift/drag events since i bought it and its never missed a beat... Never dropped abit of water and doesnt even burn that much oil... Only thing is i bent the AC pulley but thats comin out the weekend anyway!! Im headin to the pod for USC and im very confident that my car will make it there and back no bother and i drive it everyday!! Its 400bhp at the mo too...

I think a lot can be gained for having an ecu which can protect the car.  For example the standard ECU can not only monitor situations but as said above can force the car into limp mode and adjust the advance if it detects det but the ECU of choice can only warn us and wait for us to react.

Anyway, going off topic slightly!  I hope you get your car sorted with as little hassle as possable and back on the road ASAP :yes

Quote from: rx7veilside1. lets get together and import 600 ls1/t56 v8 combos and then we could kiss goodbye to rebuilds.    

2.   if i had the dosh i would plop a nice 400bhp/400ft lb ls1 in my car and then relax knowing that it wasnt going to pop with the first problem

3. a lot of the pleasure of these cars is lost due to reliability issues

agreed on all 3 of the above points!  And i rebuild my own!

What we need is a COMPLETE list of reliability mods/ parts for every single issue that could arise, no matter how small.. fuelling, cooling, ignition, sparks, etc... with a complete list people will know where they stand and can make future plans on what to get...

i dont mean to upset die hard rotary owners but the 2001-2002 corvette ls1 engines are pretty much bulletproof at 400bhp and ft pound torque and will last forever..good emmissions and not as tempramental as a rotary.check out the us forums where the scene is a lot bigger whatever the reason far too many engines are going pop

Mine is on it\'s second rebuild. I had it rebuilt this year and the previous owned had it rebuilt less than 500 miles ago before that. It\'s only a bog standard 10A.

Is there something in the water here as the failure rates seem extremely high?!

mmm, this really worried me but after the post above stating if you\'ve had it mapped it should of picked up a problem i\'ve relaxed....a little.  

What bothers me is this lack of warranty business!  I had a bill for over £6k for my rebuild etc.  Obviously I was told I would have a warranty.  The car is modified - but it was modified before it had the rebuild - so if they are not going to give a warranty because it is modified shouldnt it be advised before they take your cash?  After all, they know it was modified before they carried out the work??

Apart from that - at the time of the rebuild I had a street port and a PFC fitted and then obviously mapped.  So the rebuilder themselves have done the modifying and have set the car to run \'safe\'  Could they realistically turn down a warranty claim based on the fact I have the car modified when they modified it before the rebuild and before offering a warranty, and they mapped it?

Quote from: rx7veilsidei dont mean to upset die hard rotary owners but the 2001-2002 corvette ls1 engines are pretty much bulletproof at 400bhp and ft pound torque and will last forever..good emmissions and not as tempramental as a rotary.check out the us forums where the scene is a lot bigger whatever the reason far too many engines are going pop

Everybody knows when they buy a Rotary what their buyin... Sell ur FD and buy a corvette if u want an LS1...

I knew when i was buyin mine what i was gettin into... And i still dont mind... For the amount of abuse that ive given her and will give her till shes goes bang i wont mind gettin it rebuilt again to do the same... Small engine and big power plus great handling = :Laugh

But u do sacrifice reliability... :Hammer

Does any1 know if say GtArt give a warranty with a rebuild on a highly modified skyline?? And what are the stipulations??

Quote from: AndyGen3And i still dont mind... For the amount of abuse that ive given her and will give her till shes goes bang i wont mind gettin it rebuilt again to do the same...

you may feel a little more miffed if you have it rebuilt and it only lasts 500 miles after run in before you need to speand another £3k.  

I agree though,  they do take abuse very well. :burnout
.
.
.

Quote from: antnicukyou may feel a little more miffed if you have it rebuilt and it only lasts 500 miles after run in before you need to speand another £3k.  

I agree though,  they do take abuse very well. :burnout
.
.
.

But thats the same with any highly modifed engine and i knew this b4 i bought and im prepared to pay out if it does... Now im not goin to like it tho:Laugh
But id have to say i will be doing it myself... So it will save me packets compared to most...

Quote from: richard cashafter speaking with reworx now, they have said it is likely to be my alarm !!! aparently mazda use 4mm wire for the ignition, and the installers generally use 1mm wire, this can fook up the coil packs and make them run lean because of not enough current. they have said this has happened to 2 cars of theirs in the last 2 months and this is the reason why. This will be seen though when i take the engine out as ill get tim to inspect the coils. Ill also have the injectors tested too.

Sorry this made mew ask the question related to alarms.

Shaun

my point is it is poss to have
rx7 looks-cool
rx7 handling great
rx7 weight dist-great
rx7 suspension-great
rx7 brakes-need upgrading
all the car needs is a v8ls1
i dont want a lhd corvette i want a right hand drive car that isnt going to pop at the first sign of trouble
the combo of all of the above  is poss all u need is the v8 to complete the picture.the ls1 is a very very reliable engine plus u get all the good bits of the rx7 as the v8 weighs the same and weight dist is the same
a lot of people me included buy the rx7 thinking once rebuilt they have a reliable engine and if people read about engines going pop for whatever reason and there is no definative answer then the rotary will never be a popular choice
havnt heard of any v8s going pop running on the street in the us only good reports and thay have been doing them a long time now

Just a little point here about engine warranty here.

Is there a fault with the engine causing its failure, or is it a fault with the fueling /ignition causing failure?

If something on the engine breaks then ofcourse it would be prepared but if its not got anything to do with the part that has been repaired itself how on earth can you expect that to be covered under warranty. Have you even allowed RX motors to inspect the car?

I will add that when RX Motors built my engine, it suffered a small problem after I had run it at over 180mph on several occasions, Tim very kindly identified and repaired the engine for us at no charge to ourselves, I made no complaints to him, didnt get in a tif, we just talked about it like gentleman and got it sorted out, infact I had to barely talk to the guy as I knew it was in capable hands. Perhaps there is something to learn here kids.
I dont talk to people that work on my car like im at war with them, I dont treat them like tw@ts, if you want people to be cooperative then theres my advice.

I dont know the specifics on this case but im just trying to make a point to all you keyboard warriors out there with a god complex.

In my experience RX Motors and RE:Worx are the two best garages I have ever dealt with, they are friendly an helpful, and great fun beyond the call of duty.

Quote from: rx7veilsidei want a right hand drive car that isnt going to pop at the first sign of trouble
the combo of all of the above  is poss all u need is the v8 to complete the picture.the ls1 is a very very reliable engine plus u get all the good bits of the rx7 as the v8 weighs the same and weight dist is the same

Two points.

1) Do you know for a fact that the wieght difference is negligible?  Much of the weight of the LS1 is quite high up compared to the rotary (which is very compact by comparison).  Weight (which from the manufacturers figures is greater than the 13b) will be higher and further forward.

2) You can have 3 rebuilds on the rotary for the cost of the LS1 conversion and have pocket change to run it for a few years.

Quote from: rx7veilsidea lot of people me included buy the rx7 thinking once rebuilt they have a reliable engine

Dont 17k miles on my rebuild (came over from Japan with dead water seals from neglect).  It\'s been abused thoroughly and m,istreated badly on occasion (95C intake temps in 5th gear recently comes to mind).  It\'s been absolutely bulletproof.  I don\'t know many piston engines, LS1 included that could cope better.

I like the LS sersies of engines, theyr\'e very good at what they do and there\'s no doubt that they produce 400bhp and elephant like torque with little stress but it\'s not the be-all and end-all you seem to think it is.

An FD with a V8 is like a thai lady boy.... looks like an RX7 but its not quite the same :D

My engine has been very reliable considering the power it makes, do you really think any sports car engine is bomb proof? from my experience of Skylines, Subarus etc. I would say 100% no! Let me know an RB26 or V8 that can be fully rebuilt for just over £2000..... ...in the end the rotary is just different.

well said Ant! I have the utmost respect for Tim and Matt at RX Motors and that is why I always have the work on my FC done by them.

u cant rebuild a rotary for 2000 unless u are either doing it yourself or using very few parts labour alone is around 800.00 as soon as u start adding parts its tots up to on average 3000.00 housings after a seal failure are 250-300 and same for rotors plus water seal kit etc
i am not saying ls1 is the ultimate but it will give equal perf and better reliability than a rotary and if any doubt about the ls1 log onto hinson supercars.com it is very informative
there has been one done over here and that is pushing big numbers and will deff need some kind of uprated diff
mr rebuild using 1housing and 2 seals plus gaskets/seals was 1700.00 so if 1 rotor was needed that wld have been 2000.00 and that was for a loss of 2apex seals had i lost the other housing/rotor then it wld have rapidly headed towards 3000.00

I don\'t think thats the point being made, the rotary is the heart and soul of this car, take it out and you may as well have gone and bought something else alltogether.

Quote from: rx7veilsideu cant rebuild a rotary for 2000 unless u are either doing it yourself or using very few parts labour alone is around 800.00 as soon as u start adding parts its tots up to on average 3000.00 housings after a seal failure are 250-300 and same for rotors plus water seal kit etc
i am not saying ls1 is the ultimate but it will give equal perf and better reliability than a rotary and if any doubt about the ls1 log onto hinson supercars.com it is very informative
there has been one done over here and that is pushing big numbers and will deff need some kind of uprated diff
mr rebuild using 1housing and 2 seals plus gaskets/seals was 1700.00 so if 1 rotor was needed that wld have been 2000.00 and that was for a loss of 2apex seals had i lost the other housing/rotor then it wld have rapidly headed towards 3000.00

You can I think ours was about £2200 with new housings.

Quote from: ds2000I don\'t think thats the point being made, the rotary is the heart and soul of this car, take it out and you may as well have gone and bought something else alltogether.

Exactly, you may as well buy a corvette ffs :bandit

^ Exactly, the 13b was probably the main reason I bought the car, I know it\'ll fall to bits at somepoint but who cares, its a car, cars wear out.  I\'m damned if I\'m going to worry about it and let that stop me enjoying this awesome car!

Quote from: A7NTYI will add that when RX Motors built my engine, it suffered a small problem after I had run it at over 180mph on several occasions, Tim very kindly identified and repaired the engine for us at no charge to ourselves, I made no complaints to him, didnt get in a tif, we just talked about it like gentleman and got it sorted out, infact I had to barely talk to the guy as I knew it was in capable hands. Perhaps there is something to learn here kids.
I dont talk to people that work on my car like im at war with them, I dont treat them like tw@ts, if you want people to be cooperative then theres my advice.

I dont know the specifics on this case but im just trying to make a point to all you keyboard warriors out there with a god complex.

Good for you. You\'ve had a positive experience with the above garage. Glad you could share it. I\'ve had a bad experience so if sharing it makes me a keyboard warrior then so be it. Just as you sing their praises I will let people know that I wouldn\'t use them again. It\'s simple word of mouth and is what discussion forums are all about.:Thumbs-up

As someone said the badboy clifford alarms can cut sometimes upto 4 different circuits on a vehicle to imobilise it.

The fuel pump is one i have allways asked never to have done. On my cosworth and my FD i have used a simple 4 way relay and
my own wiring and i rewired my fuel pump straight to the battery with the relay wired to the standard fuel pump wiring just to switch on the system.

I like 14v @ My fuel pump at all times previous experience with the cosworth has proved this.

Thatcham Cat1 regulations state that a circuit has to have 30cm of wire removed (or the distance between the points the alarm attatches to the circuit has to be no less than 30cm)
It also has to be soldered and insulated properly. Scotch locks and spade connectors are a disaster waiting to happen.

Again as people have said if lower quality wire is used in the alarm system (cheapo alarm or dodgy installer) and it is for example in the fuel system the voltage to the pump will drop and
it will not supply enough fuel. This i think is easier to understand than the ignition problems talked about here.

I need to investigate this as i have a HKS twin power fitted. The bodges i have found on my car since i bought it have to be seen to be believed, i have had fuel lines held on with blue anodised
hose finishers and Shells finest optimax leakign all over my spark plugs and HT leads !!!!!!

Ive allready wired the fuel pump so i will have a look at the ignition wiring and find were my alarm is wired into.

out of interes does anyone sell an aftermarket or "new" loom for a FD3s ? Again 17 year old wiring was a problem on my cossie and i had a completely new wiring loom made. A mate has a business that does just this
he supplies Mark Shead of M A Developments with looms for his Autronic setups on skylines and evos. I could ask him if he would be interested in making new looms for the FD.

ok first id like to say that im not blaming anyone for my car breaking. I dont know what caused it yet so am keeping an open mind.

From what i understand the only reason it would go pop this early is die to det. this is caused by heat, which is either 2 main things from what i can see; fuel or ignition. Although these can be changed due to many different things

Now ive got to find the problem for the det and when i take the engine out next week with a mechanic mate we will check what we can, the rest of the stuff will go to RX motors as tim has said he can repair it for a lot cheaper than normal due to the engine being out of the car. He can then check everything else out (engine internals and water/oil pump etc.

So far ive checked all the hoses for splits, they are fine. the plugs and leads were changed when i had the remap by max. Since then ive not changed anything else on the car. The day it happened i looked at the maximum figures on the PFC and this is what i saw:

boost: 0.96bar (car was mapped to 1bar so didnt iverboost)
water: 88c
inlet temp: 44c (including waiting in traffic though so lower when driving
knock:11
oh, and i only use optimax, what it was mapped on.

when i got back i checked the engine bay and everything looked ok, no oil/water anywhere on the drive, checked the turbo compressor to see if it had fallen apart and was ok
checked the plugs and they hadnt popped off
did a compression check by sound and that didnt sound the same. On the front rotor it was only making a noise twice, in one revolution, there were 3 compression noises on the back rotor.

i dont think i can check anything more until i start taking the engine bay apart. Then i will check the injecors to see if they are squirting ok, ill check the coil as chris at reworx has suggested that the alarm thing may have messed up the pins in the coil. Ill also have to check the turbine on the turbo to see if this is damaged, im guessing it is as i had to have this rebuilt last time too.

I cant think of anything else to check but ill let people know what my results are. When i get the engine out and tim has stripped it ill also describe the findings. Until then, like i said, im not blaming anyone. I am however obvliously dissapointed as i thought when it came back from the mappers after spending around £5K having it built/mapped etc i would not have to worry about the engine for a very long time. It was certainly a shock to find out that all that money had only lasted me 1000miles of fun!! :s

i disagree that the rotary is the heart and soul it maybe the heart but the look of the rx7 is unique and the only thing spoils the car for me is the reliability issue and no it dont want to buy a corvette ffs as someone said a corvette is a lhd car i dont want a lhd i want rhd.sorry if i have upset rotary die hards.ant i think u got a very good deal at 2200 for a rebuilt and i assume ported engine with new housings

i would be curious to know what injectors/fuel pump u are running as ur reading from the pfc are well within safety limits and i would def look toward fuelling

my fuel pump is a bosch 044 (installed by dragon)
injectors are 850ccx4 (installed by dragon)
aditional injectors in elbow are 680\'s (installed by reworx)
figures on the PFC for the 4x850\'s (never more than 75% max)

Quote from: rx7veilsideu cant rebuild a rotary for 2000 unless u are either doing it yourself or using very few parts labour alone is around 800.00 as soon as u start adding parts its tots up to on average 3000.00 housings after a seal failure are 250-300 and same for rotors plus water seal kit etc
i am not saying ls1 is the ultimate but it will give equal perf and better reliability than a rotary and if any doubt about the ls1 log onto hinson supercars.com it is very informative
there has been one done over here and that is pushing big numbers and will deff need some kind of uprated diff
mr rebuild using 1housing and 2 seals plus gaskets/seals was 1700.00 so if 1 rotor was needed that wld have been 2000.00 and that was for a loss of 2apex seals had i lost the other housing/rotor then it wld have rapidly headed towards 3000.00

Sorry mate you seem to have the worrior mode on, I thought this was a rotary site not a yank tank transplant.
Having said that cubes make power if that is your bag then go for it:Laugh
I think the issue here is the delicate rotary being saved from those nasty alarms or any other interferance. Fair play to Rich [Cash] for sharing his troubles and rather than us all getting on our soap boxes maybe a considered view of what has been reported and the explination of why it has happened would help everyone.
I think Ant\'s input is valid and rather than everyone keep going off at a tangent maybe we should be focusing on the faults with after market alarms and the effect on our beloved engines.
Yet another 2p\'s worth:flamed

i know i had to move up to a skyline pump as mine was leaning out a 1 bar with a ported engine..my injector duty wasnt high but was def leaning out at 1 bar

Quote from: rx7veilsidei disagree that the rotary is the heart and soul

I think your missing the point of the car then, there are plenty of car that have \'good looks\'

Quote from: rx7veilsidethe only thing spoils the car for me is the reliability issue

If they are setup right they arent unreliable, ffs you should try owning a Skyline! :D

Quote from: rx7veilsidei dont want a lhd i want rhd

You big girl :D Left hookers are a piece of p1ss to drive, after a few hours getting used to it you wouldnt notice the difference. I wouldnt let that stop me getting a V8 yank tank, infact the new Z06, 2006 Shelby GT500 and the new Viper are rather appealing :driving

Quote from: John YorkeI think the issue here is the delicate rotary being saved from those nasty alarms or any other interferance. Fair play to Rich [Cash] for sharing his troubles and rather than us all getting on our soap boxes maybe a considered view of what has been reported and the explination of why it has happened would help everyone.
I think Ant\'s input is valid and rather than everyone keep going off at a tangent maybe we should be focusing on the faults with after market alarms and the effect on our beloved engines.
Yet another 2p\'s worth:flamed

So you can confirm the alarm is to blame?

:chat john not looking for a ruck with anyone but merely putting another point of view..this is me in discussion mode warrior mode is another matter..i thought i was discussing different views and i wish i could get a fully rebuilt ported motor using new housings for 2200.but i think it is very rare for anyone to find that kind of deal after a engine has popped as u know metal against metal tends to make a nasty mess

Just checked current price £2127.66 +VAT for a full rebuild with new housings.

I dont think the engine in this case will need a full rebuild, my money is on just the tips needing replacing

Quote from: rx7veilside:chat john not looking for a ruck with anyone but merely putting another point of view..this is me in discussion mode warrior mode is another matter..i thought i was discussing different views and i wish i could get a fully rebuilt ported motor using new housings for 2200.but i think it is very rare for anyone to find that kind of deal after a engine has popped as u know metal against metal tends to make a nasty mess

Mine was just over £2000 with VAT after having thrown a tip! I did go for good 2nd hand housings because I wanted them bridgeported and I knew that would invalidate the warranty. I had the option pay £300 for porting and £200 (if memory serves) for good condition housings or pay £500 for new housings and no porting. I wanted to keep the bill to around £2000.

Quote from: BlitzBoyI dont think the engine in this case will need a full rebuild, my money is on just the tips needing replacing

i wouldnt have thought so either as half of the engine (rear rotor) is fine and holding compression. Well, Tim will be able to tell the extent of the damage when he strips it.

from what i understand the bosch 044 pump should easily have been able to accomodate the fuel i needed to match the power i had (380 at wheels). Anyway, if it wasnt then they wouldnt have tuned it to a bar.

could you list you mods buddy...  just for clarity??

Rmaj

should have done that to start with really:

Rebuilt and street ported 13B-REW Twin rotary 1308cc
Rebuilt Garrett GT40 Single turbo  
polished engine components
Apexi Power FC ECU and commander
Apexi AVC-R boost controller
GReddy Type S Blow off Valve
Tial 44mm Wastegate
Fluidyne Aluminium radiator
Magnecor leads + NGK 10/11s plugs
4x 850CC injectors + GReddy elbow, with additional 680cc injectors in holders
Bosch 044 fuel pump
HKS Aditional injector controller III
HKS Rotary type ignition amplifier
Fuel pressure regulator
Large front mount intercooler
Twin oil coolers
Hyper SR cat back exhaust
Dragon De-cat pipe
Underdrive pulleys
Air pump removed
Water injection
GReddy turbo timer
Golden Eagle pressure manifold
OBX silicon pipes
GReddy sandwich plate
Mugen Oil pressure and oil temp. gauge

Jesus thats a nice spec....:2eek

044 is plenty enough to flow 380 atw.

This is quite a good discussion and glad to see its remaining civil and on track.

Fair play to rich, he is just airing his thoughts/problems and not looking to shoot anyone down in flames.  i really hope you get sorted quickly and cheaply,  Tim is a good bloke and tustworthy.

I have had rotaries constantly for the last 12 years,  but i would still love to go out in tinkers ls1 conversion with 500 plus bhp and torque...  You cant tell me that wouldnt be the muts n*ts!

Its the torque that is the main difference,  considering my car has more bhp than most super cars, at top end it wont pull like some of the V8 supercars do.

Come on Tinker, where are you when we need you

Quote from: rx7veilside:chat john not looking for a ruck with anyone but merely putting another point of view..this is me in discussion mode warrior mode is another matter..i thought i was discussing different views and i wish i could get a fully rebuilt ported motor using new housings for 2200.but i think it is very rare for anyone to find that kind of deal after a engine has popped as u know metal against metal tends to make a nasty mess

No one is rucking here matey. Just the point of this discusion was about rotaries and the effect of alarms on the ignition system. V8\'s are great.........just not in an FD for me anyway:eek:

Building and porting an engine is the minor expence imho, the money evaporates building in reliability, handling and safety which brings me back to the original point :- electrics and the affect of alarms on the system. I do know for a fact that a great deal of cars that are brought into the country need to have a cat 1 alarm fitted for insurance purposes, now I do know lots of cars have been fettled by reputable alarm companies but, there are plenty out there that have had a \'cheap\' job done on them iether by back street dealers or by \'mates\' that know someone in the trade that can save you a few bob - that few bob most likely will cost you the £2K+ that is being discussed here.
It is a hard lesson to be learnt big HP dont come cheap, rebuilds are essential to making a great car reliable but the rest has to be done to achieve that and if that includes having your alarm ripped out and re-plumbed correctly then that is a worthwhile lesson to be gained from this thread.

back on this thread then, under what circumstances exactly (notice the bold and underline) will a builder give a warranty.

Or let me put it another way:

If a tuner rebuilds an engine for a customer, fits and supplies for them brand new injectors, fuel pump, boost pipes, vac lines, o2 sensor, knock sensor, ECU, fuel filter and the same tuner maps the car. If the engine dies due to det, will they cover the engine? Or are there STILL too many variables...are they gonna turn around and blame 15 year old wiring?? Does the customer have to come back to the tuner and get raped for oil changes? fuel filter changes?

I was semi considering letting tim put together thepieces of metal adorning my garage floor but if this is really the case, then it really is a shame for the rainforests of south america and i for one wont bother wasting more paper paying them.

One of my very close friends has had a great sttory to tell me about his engine warranty....the warranty stated that if the engine overheats, then it must be switched off immediately or the warranty may be void. But the tuner never advised him to fit a new water temp gauge? never even mentioned it in passing although the same tuner did read the warranty out loud to him and made him sign it...that to me sounds like a tuner neglecting his responsibility to a customer....especially whn my friend was perfectly capable of building the engine himself....he wanted it for the warranty.

engine warranties do mean very little as so many things could go wrong.

If your engine dies due to a turbo failing and some shrapnel making its way inside its not the engine builders fault is it ?

Unless the car is completely stock you cannot really expect a warranty on an engine, unless your a lawyer and you have thought of ever possible variable and got your tuner to agree to it, (which you wont)

As per the above how is a faulty coolant temp gauge the fault of the tuner. If he is mapping the car he is probably seeing the coolant temp from an engine sensor on his laptop anyways.

I have a defi coolant gauge, the reading from my Power FC and the std gauge to cross reference.

an engine overheating can be caused by many things out of the tuners control. If something does happen it overheats and ruins a perfectly built engine a tuner has to repair it under warranty does he ?

Everyone seems to think a rebuilt engine warranty is like a New car warranty.

It is not a new car warranty cover an entire car. a rebuilt engine warranty does not.

Onetowatch say you have the work done youve stated, you receieve the car back in tip top condition running sweet. 1 month later your next door neighbour doesnt like the way you look at his Mrs and puts a small rodent in your engine bay who then chews off the insulation on some wiring to the ignition system causing it to break down. Result = det.

not a tuners fault replace the small rodent with whatever you like, Age of wiring, car being hit by lightening or a dodgy alarm or dodgy alarm instalation a tuner would be a nice bloke if he pointed out that the rodent shouldnt be in the engine but not all will go that extra bit further. They will do what you pay them remove, rebuild and re-install.

yes, but by the time the standard fd gauge has moved, you will have screwed the engine due to the heavy centre bias on the stock gauge...the least a tuner could do is bloody advise it!

And even on a stock engine jdm engine and ecu, would they turn around and blame the ecu (for being made to run on 100 ron)?
Or would they blame the power fc? Theres so many variables which lead to believe that a warranty is completely worthless and that those people taking their cars to a tuner in order to get a warranty may as well not bother.
And those potential buyers of fds looking for rebuilt ones with warranties are throwing their money away when compared to equivalent competent home builds.

If an engine fails due to a coolant seal failure which they supplied what happens on a stock engine...lets say for arguments sake its a uk spec completely stock car....are they gonna blame the component they didnt replace?!

Im not saying its a new car warranty, but these tuners must obviosuly have prerequisites when handing them out...but some of them for one reason or another dont advise their customer of these

you are 100% correct

thats is why my FD cost me £5k and i will do it myself

and the reason why i have decided not to give my car to any rebuilder but to do everything on it myself!
Id still like to hear it from a tuners mouth although i doubt any of them will want to be the first to flinch and admit it...

As far as i know, no tuner has ever really said their warranties are pretty much worthless....none of the ones i talked to from the above banner even mentioned any prerequisites when i asked them...and i asked all the ones who do rebuilds.

I guess it would harm their business to have DIYers having a go themselves....maybe why a couple from the list sugessted that a rebuild might be outside my capabilities.

As we seem to be talking about rebuilds yet again :confused: All I can say is you pay yer money and you take yer choise, from my experience tuners have been very forthcomming with advice and price ranges. I think the problems begin when people start of with one idea and change thier minds halfway through, tuners / engine builders are knowedgable but they aint mind readers. If you dont ask the questions in the first place you wont get the answers, it must be hell working on 15 year old cars when you are working to a budget.
I often wonder what the skybus / lardarse boys would think of a £2-3k rebuild:yes
As far as warrantee\'s are concerned I personaly have never had a problem, maybe that is because I have taken the time to explain exactly what I wanted from the build and researched what was required to achieve that goal.

Quote from: rxmotors websiteHundreds of Rx7\'s go through our workshop every year, each one is delt with by a massively experienced mechanic and an expert engine builder. Each one leaves with a 12 month unlimited milage warrentee and a happy customer. Only £2500 including VAT, with no hidden extras or strings attached.

There ya go. Should answer a couple of questions. :rollin

Quote from: John YorkeAs we seem to be talking about rebuilds yet again :confused:

John please read the title of this thread or get someone to read it to you.:Giggle

Quote from: mullinsThere ya go. Should answer a couple of questions. :rollin

I got a couple of questions,when I next see you! If you have a dispute with Rx motors,you have never said so to me.I think the problem is you never wanted to pay to have the car fixed,because you thought you had bought a perfect car,shame it wasn\'t so perfect,not my fault,I only did some work on it.
If you don\'t want to use Rx motors again,that is fine,too many nicer customers to deal with,but why blab off on this forum before even ringing to resolve your \'dispute\' .:confused:

Quote from: mullinsJohn please read the title of this thread or get someone to read it to you.:Giggle

Sarcasum is the lowest form of whit, if you took the time and trouble to read the original posts on this thread it was about alarms and the possible cause of engine failure seems to me you have your own adgenda /\\ /\\

John sorry bud, come off it....

 This thread raised some very important and worrying questions here and they need to be address.......
 
 Some may have agenda\'s yes but there are also some with \'Warranties\' that have spent mega bucks with these \'tunner/builders\' and would like to know what time it is with this claim of \'Warranties being hogwash!\'

 If this is the case then I would surely spread the word and let as many people know to have a crack at the engine re-build yourself as it ain\'t worth paying someone else alot of money to scam you!

 SO yes, there are some questions to be answered, wether the \'thread\' direction has been slightly altered or not... This is quite a finding as I too have a Warranty and an Alarm....  :2Rolleyes

 Rgds

I\'ve found an RX with a 3 year warrenty! Click Here (http://www.mazda.co.uk/Showroom/RX-8/RX-8-Coupe/Overview/?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fShowroom%2fRX-8%2fRX-8-Coupe%2f&NRNODEGUID=%7b666D6744-DA1C-499B-A9AC-75304DCEC5DD%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest)

Lets say you made trousers, and you gaurentee that they won\'t fall apart, someone buys a pair of your trousers and goes walking through bramble bushes all sunday. Funny... what\'s that... a rip in your trousers?

All workmanship is warrenteed, not the driver, the tuner, the weather, the women you might pull, how can they be gaurenteed???????????????????? All of them could cause a blow.

Hats off to Richard though, at least he\'s cool about it unlike some of the w@nkers that have been on here lately

Quote from: mattmaclennanI\'ve found an RX with a 3 year warrenty! Click Here (http://www.mazda.co.uk/Showroom/RX-8/RX-8-Coupe/Overview/?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fShowroom%2fRX-8%2fRX-8-Coupe%2f&NRNODEGUID=%7b666D6744-DA1C-499B-A9AC-75304DCEC5DD%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest)

Lets say you made trousers, and you gaurentee that they won\'t fall apart, someone buys a pair of your trousers and goes walking through bramble bushes all sunday. Funny... what\'s that... a rip in your trousers?

All workmanship is warrenteed, not the driver, the tuner, the weather, the women you might pull, how can they be gaurenteed???????????????????? All of them could cause a blow.

Hats off to Richard though, at least he\'s cool about it unlike some of the w@nkers that have been on here lately

lol made me laugh. :D

w@nkers? on this forum? keyboard warriors? NOOOO never! :)

Wow - watch the thread go!!!!

OK, I reckon people know my car has had it\'s moments, but be fair people...

The car will be reliable if you make no performance changes to the engine, only things that will cool and reinforce the engine safeguards (eg. AST, Hose replacement, etc).

If you start to make performance improvements, you can\'t expect anything BUT things to go wrong...  Higher boost, freer flowing, custom mapping, ignition, etc.  And that is the same on ANY car, irrespective of brand, configuration, etc...

LS1, scooby 4pot, any skybus cannot be as reliable once you start fiddling!  it can\'t.

I have made mistakes before in the "Can this be put on my car", whereas I should have asked "Should this be put on my car" - these are fundamentally different questions!!  I should know this, as this is the biggest fundamental mistake I have made over time with my baby

The car is cheap to buy, but can be expensive to run.  Mine surprised me with a near £2k bill already this year, and I am loathe to drive it at the mo due to another £400 to get the turbo manifold changed...  I\'m unable to justify this at the moment, so I spend my time farting around, and rarely driving it, because it\'s unsatisfying.  You do feel let down, but that\'s sports cars.  (TVR is a case in question!)

^ lol,

I do feel for the tuners that might miss out on business because some people will read this literally.  I\'ve dealt with reworx a few times and they have always been helpful and polite :) - if my engine goes bang and I cba to rebuild it myself, Tim will be getting it to do :)

I think my only gripe would be why was I offered a warranty if there is a good chance they won\'t honour if something does go wrong?  Even though they know the car is modified?  

Luckily, fingers crossed and the fact I think I picked one of the best rebuilders means I havent had to cross this bridge - yet.

In hindsight - if/when I next need a rebuild - a phone to all tuners first, stating my current mods, alarms etc and check to see what and in what circumstances would they offer a warranty.  

To be honest though I can completely see their side of the coin - so if i\'m not getting a warranty i\'ll do it myself - after all thats the main reason I had it done professionally.

What I want to know is why all the talk of LS1\'s.... Why not just drop a skybus engine in. :D

Fish

PS. Had issues, still got issues. ;)

Quote from: FishWhat I want to know is why all the talk of LS1\'s.... Why not just drop a skybus engine in. :D

Fish

PS. Had issues, still got issues. ;)

Are you looking for a beating? :D You couldnt get used to the turbo lag on a \'bus after owning a rotary, not to mention the engine life and £5000-6000+ rebuild costs :eek:

they all offer a warranty against engine failiure,  if water seals go, they will fix it.  Detonation to an engine is the equivalent of crashing your car.  It might not be your fault, it may be down to another driver or road conditions but its still not down to the manufacturer to fix. If you crashed your brand new rx8, you wouldnt take it to mazda and ask them to fix it under warranty!

A rotary engine will generally pop at the first sign of det unless you are really lucky.  How can a tuner be responsible for det unless they supply and fit absolutely all new parts and ancilleries throughout the whole car,  which no one would pay for.  A brand new engine block bought from mazda with all new parts will still pop if it dets, the workmanship of the engine builder could be 100%, if the engine is killed by det, what have they done wrong that they should fix.

When you have a car modified and tuned on the rollers, you sign a disclaimer to say that if it dies,  tough!

Admittidly, all this info isnt broadcast to you when you collect your car after rebuild but if you ask the right questions, they will tell you.

The same goes for insurance,  when you take it out, they tell you all the good points but dont tell you that if you crash while over the drink drive limit your insurance is void!  (check your certificate).

Quote from: FishWhat I want to know is why all the talk of LS1\'s.... Why not just drop a skybus engine in. :D

Fish

PS. Had issues, still got issues. ;)

cos they go pop a lot i\'ve heard:Party :Party

edit: double post :(

I didn\'t have a warranty with mine as a) it was ported and b) I was usinging 2nd hand housings. I went for the professional approach because I didn\'t have 25 odd years experience in building rotary engines and my choice of builder did.

All this talk about builders not standing by their warranties, how many people on the forum have had engines rebuilt under warranty? I can think of several, bottom line is do the customer and or builder believe that the engine failed due to the workmanship or parts supplied by the builder or was it caused by something outside the builders control? After all if any of us were running a small repair business (lets face it all of the rotary tuner/builders are small businesses) where customers had certain components of machinery repaired, if the machines then failed, surely you could only be held responsible if the repair that had been carried out was the cause of the failure. As has been mentioned these are not full manufacturers warrantys, the builder doesn\'t replace every component in the vehicle, if you want a comprehensive warranty, you must have a comprehensive rebuild )i.e. tear out everything n the engine bay, all electronics, fuelling, hydraullics (in fact everything back to the bear shell and have it replaced, i\'m sure if that was done a builder would offer a comprehensive warranty, but I doubt many people on here would be prepared to pay the sort of costs involved (don\'t know how many builders would have the time to do it either!)

btw I heard a while back the story of a guy with a skybus GTR who had spent £15000 (yes that is 3 zeros) on a rebuild, the engine blew again (total engine failure - piston through the block type) after 700 miles the company in question agreed to half the labour charges for the second rebuild but he had to pay for new parts so he paid another £10000 engine went again a month later, he decided to go to another builder rather than fight the comapny again so in the end his rebuild ended up costing £39k! Thing is his was a 600bhp car that he did a number of drag launches and track driving, the warranty doesn\'t cover that and technically the first builder didn\'t have to offer him anything so reducing the bill by £5k was a gesture of goodwill! (The fact he went to the wrong builder who did have a good rep was something the guy learned the hard way)

..it\'s not a tight squeeze at all :rolleyes:

boat anchor anyone? :Thumbs-up

Quote from: FishWhat I want to know is why all the talk of LS1\'s.... Why not just drop a skybus engine in. :D

Fish

PS. Had issues, still got issues. ;)

When mine was rebuilt the warranty WGT supplied (which was only valid once WGT had verified that the run in had been done properly) had some specific exclusions (e.g. track work, drag stuff).  That I can live with - it was a mostly standard build at the time with street porting.  Simple.

When it\'s mapped by someone I place my trust in I expect them to stand by their workmanship but only if it\'s that that\'s caused the problems (rather than some ancillary 14 year old component or my abuse of the car).

This has happened with issues I\'ve had with work done and those issues have been corrected and/or compensated for.  It\'s only when the relationship you have with the person/people doing work on your P&J breaks down that problems happen in my experience.

Some stuff is easy to warranty - e.g. a new clutch that goes under normal road work.  Some is harder - what guarantee should Max/Re:worx offer on mapping?  (for example)  Should it warrant against any failure of the engine under any circumstances?  Hardly!

At the end of the day people need to discuss warranties and exclusions up front before work is committed to.  Make sure your tuner knows what you expect and agrees to it or go elsewhere OR (more realistically) reach an accomodation with them!

O/K Guys just clipped a couple of posts to clean this thread up as this is very good and valuable thread which a lot of people will want to see continue and we don\'t need this one going of the rails and becoming a slagging match thankyou, so please keep this one on track without people going on about V8\'s, hidden agendas, and keyboard warriors etc etc.




Right people we have two main issues here ,

1/ If an alarm has caused an engine failure most of the people on this forum would want to see it totally proven and not be just conjecture so they can stop this potentially happening to them.

2 / The warranty question is a very very valid debate on this thread and some very very good statements have gone up already because as with the Alarm side of this debate there are a lot of people out there who have paid for engines with warranties and must now be wondering if it\'s worth the paper its written on.




It would now be my suggestion even though some will moan bitterly that I am suggesting this, that all of our Rotary engine builders out there draft up a copy of what is and is not covered by their warranty because this not only protects the owner but also the company building the engine.

This way if it\'s  Black and White there is no argument on either side, and also gives the customer an opportunity to ask before he parts with monies to see a copy of any warranty that is offered and then make his own mind up if he wants to part with his money with the benefit at least knowing exactly where he stands in the event of a problem.

Rotary vendors will probably moan that this is another time consuming thing that MRC has caused, but this is a document that only needs to be properly written once and then will also protect them from possible attacks on their respective companies.

Also by each company writing out exactly what their warranty covers it will allow their previous worried customers who are reading this to find out exactly what they have paid for!.

I believe it can only be a good thing for our Rotary community to have all of the above clarified because the poor old Rotary gets enough stick as it is without prospective Rotary owners coming to the club and finding this type of "in house" fighting about hidden reliabilaty issues , yes it may mean that owners have to pay more for their engines so that Vendors cover themselves properly, but if this then increases the reliability of Rotaries in general this can only be a good thing surely, so I ask.



Vendors, please sit down and write out fully what is and is not covered by the warranty that your company offers

Customers, please ask for a copy of any warranty offered before parting with any monies so you know exactly what you are paying for




Hope this helps

Quote from: TimrxmotorsI got a couple of questions,when I next see you! If you have a dispute with Rx motors,you have never said so to me.I think the problem is you never wanted to pay to have the car fixed,because you thought you had bought a perfect car,shame it wasn\'t so perfect,not my fault,I only did some work on it.
If you don\'t want to use Rx motors again,that is fine,too many nicer customers to deal with,but why blab off on this forum before even ringing to resolve your \'dispute\' .:confused:

Tim you are correct the car wasn\'t perfect (it had a stuffed motor!) but who rebuilt it for the previous owner only 500 miles ago? Do you consider a second attempt rebuild only "some work". I never wanted to pay? I payed cash on collection without ANY questions!! Did my complaint post about your poor service and my phone call from the side of the road not bring to your attention all was not well with you rebuild? :confused:

I\'m sorry Tim I really don\'t like making posts like this but what else can I do? Maybe I\'m used to a higher level of service from my previous tuner and my expectations are too high? This will be my last post about you. That is apart from the odd post I make sending business your way for spares. I\'ll keep doing that because it helps out fellow rotorheads. You\'re welcome to ring me and you have my number.

end of /

You mean you have censored the people you dont like speaking out....

Quote from: cliveVendors, please sit down and write out fully what is and is not covered by the warranty that your company offers

Customers, please ask for a copy of any warranty offered before parting with any monies so you know exactly what you are paying for

Surely its up to them how they run their business?:confused:

surely,  talking about replacing different engines is on topic, instead of paying for rebuilds when it dies,  go for something different.  I am certainly interested in some other sort of power plant.

QuoteClive,
Vendors, please sit down and write out fully what is and is not covered by the warranty that your company offers

Customers, please ask for a copy of any warranty offered before parting with any monies so you know exactly what you are paying for

Excellent idea, thats what i did when i had my rebuild done, and i knew the guy would honour his warrenty, (absolutely no problems and warrenty expired now) but then mine is standard engine,
Bob

Quote from: A7NTYYou mean you have censored the people you dont like speaking out....

Correct. Vendor gets the last word yet again, dissatisified customer gets a PM.

Quote from: mullinsCorrect. Vendor gets the last word yet again dissatisified customer gets a PM.

A dissatisfied customer that hasnt contacted the company he is dissatisfied with, that makes for a bit of a silly billy if you ask me :spank

Quote from: A7NTYA dissatisfied customer that hasnt contacted the company he is dissatisfied with, that makes for a bit of a silly billy if you ask me :spank

I have contacted them on the day the car broke down. Go ahead and believe Tim if you like, makes no difference to me.
This is what happends when posts are edited and removed - people don\'t get the full story!

Quote from: antnicuksurely,  talking about replacing different engines is on topic, instead of paying for rebuilds when it dies,  go for something different.  I am certainly interested in some other sort of power plant.

This is my opinion, I love the RX7 however I dont believe its a great base for an engine transplant, yes it looks cool, but its hardly the lightest thing around, without a lot of work the body is nowhere near stiff enough and it would be easy to upset the weight distribution balance. Now a tripe rotor twin turbo in a westfield style thing, that sounds awesome!

i think clive has it right with his BOLD TYPE above. Obvliously the engine builders dont have to do as he suggested and write exactly what is covered in a warrenty, but it would be helpful to both the business and customer. If i knew that certain things werent covered then it would have been less of a shock when i blew the engine and TIM said there was nothing he could do. And for the business surely its much better for them to detail their warrenty, that way they wont get unhappy customers on the phone to them etc.

Its something that would probably take 30mins to write, but would be regained by unneccessary phone calls between customer/vendor.


Obvliously the main problem here is that the customers are relating an engine warrenty to a warrenty on say a household appliance. Engine warrenties do mean much less than most people realise and that is evident from this post.

Sounds like a great idea Clive - as you say it could protects everyone concerned and helps prevent upsets if everyone knows where they stand.

Gives us a chance to make a comparison and make an informed decision  :wiggle

Quote from: cliveVendors, please sit down and write out fully what is and is not covered by the warranty that your company offers

Customers, please ask for a copy of any warranty offered before parting with any monies so you know exactly what you are paying for

Hope this helps

I think it may be easy to provide the wording of warranties provided for standard engine rebuilds BUT not for custom/modification work as that would be dependant on the individual piece of work.

e.g. Vendor builds an engine specified for fast road - it is warranted for that.  If the vendor puts an engine together specifically for track work then (along with the higher cost) I\'d expect a warranty suitable for that (with exclusions etc).

There\'s no one-size-fits-all.

While it might be nice for vendors to post up their general warranty info the most important thing, as Clive posted, is for the customer to be sure what they\'re getting and to be happy with it.

Ant\'s also right - it\'s not MRCs business to tell the Vendors how to run their businesses.  I don\'t think that\'s what CLive\'s trying to say/do in any shape or form.  He\'s just trying to get a single place where us customers can compare what\'s on offer via the warranties.

No conspiracy, no hidden agendas.  Simple really.

Quote from: iaintThere\'s no one-size-fits-all.

Exactly.

Quote from: iaintit\'s not MRCs business to tell the Vendors how to run their businesses.

Indeed, but I honestly think even suggestions of this nature are over the line, especially as Clive has a business dealing with RX7\'s (shy and soon mazdarotaryparts), which in my opinion is a conflict of interest in this case. Perhaps saying \'If I rebuilt engines I would....\' rather than \'vendors should do....\'

You run a club, thats fine, however remember you then have a lot of people that will then hang on every word you say as you have influence with a lot of people, so in my opinion mods should really keep their noses out completely, but hey its not my club, I only read and post now and again so its up to you how you run it.

In my opinion heavy handed moderation and intervention, makes more mess than its worth, thats my 2p\'s worth anyway.

I am sure all the builders and vendors are responsible establishments, and carry out their work to the highest standards. In saying that, they should openly inform their customers what changes they are permitted to carry out under the warranty period. I have only had dealings with WGT, and on all the engines i have contracted to them, Pip has always stated what changes will void the warrenty.
On a case such as this, where an alarm fitment MAY be the cause of engine failure, this should be proved as fact and not a quick excuse. Tim is a genuine bloke, and i am convinced that he will help his customers as best he can, inspite of debates from the club.

John

Quote from: A7NTYExactly.



Indeed, but I honestly think even suggestions of this nature are over the line, especially as Clive has a business dealing with RX7\'s (shy and soon mazdarotaryparts), which in my opinion is a conflict of interest in this case. Perhaps saying \'If I rebuilt engines I would....\' rather than \'vendors should do....\'

You run a club, thats fine, however remember you then have a lot of people that will then hang on every word you say as you have influence with a lot of people, so in my opinion mods should really keep their noses out completely, but hey its not my club, I only read and post now and again so its up to you how you run it.[end of quote]

Have to agree with you Ant [sheesh this is becomming a habit:) ]Cant see how you can be a mod / involved with running a club AND have a business trading to its members, surely that is a conflict of interest?

Back to the unfortunate demise of Richards engine I do hope you are able to pinpoint the cause and are able to share that information with us.

With the warranty thing it has been my experience [and that is with 2 builders] they ask what you intend to do with it and they will tell you what is covered, I do not think anyone can expect a builder / tuner to cover anything other than his workmanship [which relate directly to the parts supplied, fitted or serviced] If an engines dies because of say a failed fuel supply or a burnt out wire you cant expect the builder to cover that, if however a seal or connection fails that I would expect to be covered.

QuoteHave to agree with you Ant [sheesh this is becomming a habit ]Cant see how you can be a mod / involved with running a club AND have a business trading to its members, surely that is a conflict of interest?

I\'m probably going to get flamed here, and will probably regret doing this, as this topic is getting very emotive, but here goes anyway:

At the AGM this year people were given the chance to vote for new members for the club, and Clive was given unanimous support at the time, if i remember correctly. As such, surely complaints of this nature cannot be made?

dont see how clive has a conflict of interest as he as far as i know only sells parts and is in no way involved with rebuilds or recomending who does rebuilds,he allways tries to offer a balanced view
anyway GET THAT LS1 IN UR CAR NOW EVERYONE:flamed :flamed :) :) :)

Quote from: rx7veilsideanyway GET THAT LS1 IN UR CAR NOW EVERYONE:flamed :flamed :) :) :)

Damn stirrer! ;)

Ok - digressing back to the original question ... it seems that it [B]may [/B]be the alarm at fault owing to inferior wire and i am sure that someone said this can be rectified / avoided by using an ignition amplifier yet richard has one of those - does this mean that the alarm can\'t have been the cause or does it mean that i have got completely the wrong end of the stick (quite likely!) and the twin power doesn\'t help avoid this?

Si.

QuoteJohn Yorke  
MRC Guest  
 

Quote from: A7NTYMRC Guest      Exactly.

Indeed, but I honestly think even suggestions of this nature are over the line, especially as Clive has a business dealing with RX7\'s (shy and soon mazdarotaryparts), which in my opinion is a conflict of interest in this case. Perhaps saying \'If I rebuilt engines I would....\' rather than \'vendors should do....\'

It\'s not over the line, or a conflict of interests at all, Clive has made both suggestions starting with  

QuoteVendors Please etc.
                                                 Customers Please etc.

where does it say \'vendors should do\'?

Both these suggestions have been within the capability and choice to do of Vendors and Customers for years, and make a lot of sense, it\'s a shame this was not done a long time ago, it is in the interests of Vendors and Customers alike, Clive has made these suggestions which will improve communication, choice, satisfaction for customers, by doing the above customer and Vendor will know exactly where they are, Happy customers== more business for the Vendor!

QuoteA7NTY Surely its up to them how they run their business?

Yes it is,  this is not telling Vendors how to run thier business, but if they choose not to offer a warrenty, they won\'t get my business.

 

Quotenikp, At the AGM this year people were given the chance to vote for new members for the club, and Clive was given unanimous support at the time, if i remember correctly. As such, surely complaints of this nature cannot be made?

Absolutely right! underline unanimous, flame free nik
Bob

need an expert view on this but i would have thought the ign amplifier wld have kept the spark stable when under load as it is designed to give stable/strong spark when running higher boost but as richard was only running .96bar this is hardly excessive as standard twins cope with 0.8-0.9 comfortably

Quote from: A7NTYSurely its up to them how they run their business?:confused:

Hi Ant, I have made it very clear that this to try and protect both sides and hopefully move our community forward.

Sorry you don\'t like MRC operates but the members have made it quite clear they don\'t like the stuff you, Matt and Mullins put up at the AGM and asked for increased powers to make it so.

( Mullins I can only suggest that you put a modified version of your post in the Truth about tuners thread as it would be more appropriate. A mod clipped your post as it was a direct personal attack on a person let alone a vendor )    

Please can we deal only deal with the two things that were outlined and necessitate this thread continueing and not turn this into yet another anti MRC thread please particularly you John, as we have all had your anti me and MRC opinions pointed out to us all far to many times for it to be funny any more, but just to humour you I do not sell rebuilt engines and so have no conflict of interest in saying the things I have on this thread.

Now then can we please keep to "Alarms" and Warranty\'s" as this affects many of our Rotary owners.

Why dont you girls phone the HORMONE HELPLINE....have a good cry and whinge...and then have some :guinness :guinness :guinness :guinness :Thumbs-up ...again we are back to the time consuming,boring,whinging and whineing over problems that cannot be solved on the forum,the thread started out well and then it was ripped out of proportion again by the keyboard warriors....take a chill pill guys and settle down...Love you all..:spank :spank :spank :spank :guinness

allways nice to have a chat and get different points of view but shame when it gets a bit personal

Quote from: rx7veilsideallways nice to have a chat and get different points of view but shame when it gets a bit personal

Yip,you said it bud,half of the warriors wont even say boo if all sat around a table in discussion....:Hammer :guinness

Quote from: cliveHi Ant, I have made it very clear that this to try and protect both sides and hopefully move our community forward.

Sorry you don\'t like MRC operates but the members have made it quite clear they don\'t like the stuff you, Matt and Mullins put up at the AGM and asked for increased powers to make it so.    

Please can we deal only deal with the two things that were outlined and necessitate this thread continueing and not turn this into yet another anti MRC thread please particularly you John, as we have all had your anti me and MRC opinions pointed out to us all far to many times for it to be funny any more, but just to humour you I do not sell rebuilt engines and so have no conflict of interest in saying the things I have on this thread.

Now then can we please keep to "Alarms" and Warranty\'s" as this affects many of our Rotary owners.

Clive,

In the first instance I fail to see this \'anti me anti you\' attiude???? I have no axe personaly to grind with you, never thought there was a problem.... It is clear you have a problem with me why???? Because I state a vendor should not have a position of influence within the club [ie mod, chairman ect.] you seem to have taken this issue to heart why is that, maybe it is the systimatic way you removed all the other vendors from being mods?????

It was quite intersting when I said hello at the pub meet on Tuesday you chose not to acknowlege me, so much for \'if you have a rotary you are all welcome\' quite sad if you ask me.

Sorry to post this on a public forum, but when I am being made out to be someone who I clearly am not it upsets me.
Still you have the option to remove this post dont you.

Quote from: John YorkeClive,

In the first instance I fail to see this \'anti me anti you\' attiude???? I have no axe personaly to grind with you, never thought there was a problem.... It is clear you have a problem with me why???? Because I state a vendor should not have a position of influence within the club [ie mod, chairman ect.] you seem to have taken this issue to heart why is that, maybe it is the systimatic way you removed all the other vendors from being mods?????

It was quite intersting when I said hello at the pub meet on Tuesday you chose not to acknowlege me, so much for \'if you have a rotary you are all welcome\' quite sad if you ask me.

Sorry to post this on a public forum, but when I am being made out to be someone who I clearly am not it upsets me.
Still you have the option to remove this post dont you.

It IS a pity you place this on a public forum.....phone Clive and sort it with him...........and have a :guinness  , and have one for me while you at it....

Quote from: oldoneIt IS a pity you place this on a public forum.....phone Clive and sort it with him...........and have a :guinness  , and have one for me while you at it....

Maybe you should be asking him why he managed to post such a personel post in the 1st place?

Quote from: John YorkeMaybe you should be asking him why he managed to post such a personel post in the 1st place?

No I wont ask him....but will tell him he is a balshy old git and should stop his sh!t....he listens when the oldone speaks.......:spank

Quote from: oldoneNo I wont ask him....but will tell him he is a balshy old git and should stop his sh!t....he listens when the oldone speaks.......:spank

Oh err:Viking

quit your bitching.

I want to see acopy of this warranty - whats it look like is there small print? is it specific to what is covered and what isnt - can someone please post what it says on there?

pertaining to this thread (so far) this is how i see it -

this kid has spent **** loads of cash on a rebuild and then the motor goes pop.  im sure hes been following the care procedures - why would he want to blow his engine again for???

anyway it goes bang then he rings the vendor - they BOTH try to palm him off with stupid reasons and excuses for why his engine went pop - pretty sure before either have taken a look at it.

why the hell he got it rebuilt at one place then mapped at another beats me. as this has done nothing but left him open to getting his pants pulled down as now they can just blame each other!!  ultimatly leaving him with no option but to spend a **** load more -- or set fire to the car.

i would have already been to see trading standards and my solicitor to see if they can help.


My experience of mechanics --

Since cars were invented from the Main dealer down to the back street garage from the Salesmen to the Mechanic they are your best mate and will bend over backwards to help you get your wallet out - until they have to spend time /money fixing something they cocked up at no cost to you.

take my advice fellow club members DONT trust ANY of them.

QuoteClive, Please can we deal only deal with the two things that were outlined and necessitate this thread continueing and not turn this into yet another anti MRC thread please particularly you John, as we have all had your anti me and MRC opinions pointed out to us all far to many times for it to be funny any more,

Too true!

Quotejohn yorke,
Guest.     Still you have the option to remove this post dont you.

Could a mod please use this option suggested above by John Yorke, and remove all this pathetic whinging, along with all the other unrelated crap, cluttering up this thread,  and get back on track, follow up on Clives suggestions (re warrenties etc) which are in all our interests, and could do with more discusion,  and have some thought for the reason for the thread being started in the first place, a blown engine! and how is the alarm related to this engine failure? if it is! where does the guy go from here? etc.
please remove this also,
cheers Bob

ro284, Clive, etc. etc.

Yes your entitled to your opinions. Yes Clive you started this club and all dues to you for that, to me it is only sad that it seems to have become a resource for people that are happy to pay pay pay and have anything they type moderated.

However seeing as people want to make this into a general point, whereas I was keeping it thread specific, I feel compelled to reply.

MRC Guest, yes thats right I strongly object to paying. Its probably best I dont go into to all of the reasons why, but seeing as I cant even send a PM to complain about this to Clive or Glen whatever, what do you want me to do?

After having a good number of my posts deleted for no good reason, recently and in the past, why on earth would I want to pay to be a part of that?

MRC is here and it represents the rotary community, like it or lump it. Considering this imho it is elitist, over censored and biased toards those prepared to pay up and shut up. Like or it or not I love RX\'s and care about the whole scene, I dont like what MRC has become, and until people started getting a little to zealous I enjoyed looking on the forum and running into people at the events.

Regarding the AGM and the decissions made; How many people attended? how many people even knew it was taking place? Was enough notice given to people so that they could show up?

So anyway, there you go, thats my honest opinions on the matter, feel free to \'flame\' me, despise me or whatever but alteast I was honest enough to say.

Im sure this post will be deleted, and ill probably get banned, oh well, it was nice while it lasted.

All the best, Ant.

Quote from: John YorkeBecause I state a vendor should not have a position of influence within the club

The thing is John is correct, when MRC was small this wasnt an issue, now it is a large influential club, much due to those running the clubs hard work. As a large club, the hub of the UK rotary scene I believe this is a completely unaccepatable position, sure you can disagree with me, John and the numerous others that have agreed with us on this, but in the end all you get is a club where a lot of people are polarized, and every week, 2 weeks whatever you get another post that boils down to the same thing.

QuoteA7NTY. Im sure this post will be deleted, and ill probably get banned, oh well, it was nice while it lasted.

well it\'s got nothing to do with the thread has it, it should be deleted, i for one am interested in all the bitchin,I PAY FOR THIS!

Must be this July weath:bandit er

Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHMy experience of mechanics --

Since cars were invented from the Main dealer down to the back street garage from the Salesmen to the Mechanic they are your best mate and will bend over backwards to help you get your wallet out - until they have to spend time /money fixing something they cocked up at no cost to you.

take my advice fellow club members DONT trust ANY of them.

I truly hope no garage will ever deal with you again. If you go in with that attitude no wonder you get no help.

I speak for many honest and fair people I know in the trade, including our own garage in saying we try to do the best by people, BUT WE ARE NOT CHARITIES!

Quote from: ro284well it\'s got nothing to do with the thread has it, it should be deleted, i for one am interested in all the bitchin,I PAY FOR THIS!

Well done for dragging it up and misreading what I originally wrote then.

Wrong end of stick Si ;)

The twinpower only moves the miss slightly further up the rev range. You need to sort the root cause (alarm wiring) to make the problem go away.

I always recommend some form of ignition amplifier on an FD, but don\'t use it as a cure in this situation of ignition missfire.

Quote from: smartsOk - digressing back to the original question ... it seems that it [B]may [/B]be the alarm at fault owing to inferior wire and i am sure that someone said this can be rectified / avoided by using an ignition amplifier yet richard has one of those - does this mean that the alarm can\'t have been the cause or does it mean that i have got completely the wrong end of the stick (quite likely!) and the twin power doesn\'t help avoid this?

Si.

you cannot have an unmoderated forum, as you have said the club has become a lot bigger and things put into print in the public domain AND read by a large number of people have the power to do a lot of damage to both the people and the business involved. That means that club has to act to protect the club, the individuals involved and the company.  If that means deleting a few posts then so be it ... its not a big deal ... where in the world does free speech really exist ? I can\'t think of anywhere you can print whatever you like with no consequences or censoring.

seriously this is meant to be F U N for the majority of us on this forum. The money making side of things just gets in the way IMHO and I would love to see MRC free of all trade adds paid up or not as it causes ALL the grief that makes this place not a nice place to be sometimes.

There are some great people in this club and a lot more outside of it (to state the obvious with a limited membership) and if it were not for these people I would not bother being a member.

PLEASE NOTE ... It may say admin at the top of this post under my user name but I am NOT posting this on behalf of the club ... usual disclaimers apply etc. etc.

Quote from: A7NTYI truly hope no garage will ever deal with you again. If you go in with that attitude no wonder you get no help.

I speak for many honest and fair people I know in the trade, including our own garage in saying we try to do the best by people, BUT WE ARE NOT CHARITIES!

you still here?? your  trying to cause arguments arnt ya - i dont care if MY EXPERIENCE has offended you.  you should be angry at the shady basterds working in your industry to give people like me views like this.

EVERYONE I KNOW has been made to feel ripped off by a mechanic at one point!!!!!!

i wouldnt take my car to you - you look likely to rip me off - cos your freeloading the MRC right now....

Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHyou still here?? your  trying to cause arguments arnt ya - i dont care if MY EXPERIENCE has offended you.  you should be angry at the shady basterds working in your industry to give people like me views like this.

EVERYONE I KNOW has been made to feel ripped off by a mechanic at one point!!!!!!

i wouldnt take my car to you - you look likely to rip me off - cos your freeloading the MRC right now....

Oops...:cool  a lil harsh there bro.....:guinness

Quote from: A7NTYI truly hope no garage will ever deal with you again. If you go in with that attitude no wonder you get no help.

I speak for many honest and fair people I know in the trade, including our own garage in saying we try to do the best by people, BUT WE ARE NOT CHARITIES!

There are far too many garages that have the attitude described here....ones that are happy to take your money but from the time you o back for a warranty claim or to have coorective work done FOC, they resort to palming you off with sorry excuses...

I had one garage cock one of my cars up..they plugged the distributor earth wire into the oil pressure sender and took out the ignition advance from the stock ECU...cost me over £300 to fix it and theydenied any wrong doing...
I drove the car into their workshop...hell i drove it on their ramps cos its quite low and i didnt want them destroying my splitter....the car didnt drive back off the ramps, it was pushed off....so thats what? my fault....the garage in question took no responsibility.

this type of activity is all too commonplace in the motor repair industry and your (ant) attack on what TIInuttah has said is misplaced. The motor repair industry as a whole should be seeking to improve its image by weeding out such garages.
If....god forbid if i have to take my car to a garage, i will treat them with distrust until i have the car back in my hands...i will watch them like hawks for all work they do on my car and i will insist on paying vat (most garages i go to still insist on no receipt no vat). I dont trust anyone to work on my cars...ill do it myself...even if it takes me weeks, months....id rther know it was done to my level of workmanship.

Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHyou still here?? your  trying to cause arguments arnt ya - i dont care if MY EXPERIENCE has offended you.  you should be angry at the shady basterds working in your industry to give people like me views like this.

EVERYONE I KNOW has been made to feel ripped off by a mechanic at one point!!!!!!

i wouldnt take my car to you - you look likely to rip me off - cos your freeloading the MRC right now....

Good, because you sir are a retard.

I can feel it in my waters that...........:guinness

Quote from: oldoneI can feel it in my waters that...........:guinness

.......................WE ALL NEED A BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!:Laugh :Laugh

Sad but this is why the internet fails, 90% of what has been said in the last 2 pages would not happen if we were face to face.
I for one would rather see this thread deleted, Richard given the chance to explaine [when he can] what happend to cause the demise of his engine on a new thread.
Having said that, Clive you are welcome to mail me or phone, you have both. Cant see the point of this now...........

Right, thats enough.  This is with my Brett hat and my Mod hat on.

Just how old are you lot?  If you cant think before you type then please log out and cool off.

I\'d start editing posts right now, but to be honest why should I or any other mod/admin/chairman/etc do anything to try and sort your poxy mess out when we stand a good chance of getting our collective nuts dry roasted for it.  
 I promise the very next off topic post and I\'ll remove EVERY off topic thing in this whole damn thread and lock it after me.

 Clear?

 End of sermon.

:( sorry brett. didnt see your post...

Quote from: BrettRight, thats enough.  This is with my Brett hat and my Mod hat on.

Just how old are you lot?  If you cant think before you type then please log out and cool off.

I\'d start editing posts right now, but to be honest why should I or any other mod/admin/chairman/etc do anything to try and sort your poxy mess out when we stand a good chance of getting our collective nuts dry roasted for it.  
 I promise the very next off topic post and I\'ll remove EVERY off topic thing in this whole damn thread and lock it after me.

 Clear?

 End of sermon.

*round of applause*

Quote from: BrettRight, thats enough.  This is with my Brett hat and my Mod hat on.

Just how old are you lot?  If you cant think before you type then please log out and cool off.

I\'d start editing posts right now, but to be honest why should I or any other mod/admin/chairman/etc do anything to try and sort your poxy mess out when we stand a good chance of getting our collective nuts dry roasted for it.  
 I promise the very next off topic post and I\'ll remove EVERY off topic thing in this whole damn thread and lock it after me.

 Clear?

 End of sermon.

You talk to much ................:flamed

Quote from: John YorkeI for one would rather see this thread deleted

here here  :cheers

Well said John !!  :King :King :King

I think a few new threads regarding alarms, ignition amps and how the hell we can solve these problems would be great. :yes

I think this guy should sort his cars problems out with reworx and rxmotors in private. :yes :Thumbs-up

id wary about mechanics cos ... once bitten by a snake.... i paid someone to change the glow plugs on my car once they snapped one in half trying to remove it and left the end of glow plug in the engine - subsequently the engine **** itself - that cost me a grand.. so yeh im sorry if my comments seem a little harsh against mechanics - i know there are people you can trust - its just that this thread bought back terrible memories of being a student at uni and needing a car to get to work / back home / socialise and having it blow up on the motorway and then stood there in the rain waiting for greenflag wondering how i long i was going to have to live on beans on toast to pay for it. Then my shear rage when i found half a glow plug in my cylinder head and not getting reimbursed for it!

as a mechanic you gotta understand that  you dont just get given trust you you must earn it.. remember people have to pay for the work and its not cheap to anyone - therefore utmost care must be taken to ensure that car is to the job you said you would do.

the other side of the coin is that its inherent in any business that you may fall into dispute with people regarding services or goods you have supplied regardless. people find it easy to blame others.... its just what happens.

i personally have heard nothing but good things about these vendors - so does that mean i wont lose sleep if i had to trust him with my pride and joy - nope cos i will.

i really dont want to see this thread locked as im really interested in carrying on this discussion re. alarms..

I do have something constructive to add but may have been posted before?

surely if the poor wiring on an alarm could cause an issue with det\' etc. then this would have been well documented somewhere or would have happened to soemone on here before??? the manufacturers of alarms would have done something about this in the design of thier products as that would make them lose competitive advantage if thier alarm was inferior or dangerous to engines..

Even car stereos have thicker gauge wire for things which carry main power -

how come i have seen wires 1mm thick carrying 12V to essential items in my FC - while doing my s4 - s5conversion (which a vendor said - was near enough impossible tio do before i started it -- lol) -  if you see how thick my wire for the fuel pump is you would laugh as it is a proper overkill in comparison to the standard telephone wire mazda use.

hence why im sitting in the camp thats thinking that the alrm causing failure is not a sound theory -if its a wiring issue that caused failure then it could have been any wire in that loom -

therefore maybe it isnt the responsibility of the rebuilder - maybe the guy who mapped it should have seen it? you surely would pick up on a loose / under ignition during mapping??

maybe richard has misinformed us or we got the wrong end of the stick - you wont know for sure until this engine has been taken apart and the X years of a rotary building vendor can elaborate on what caused failure - in any case he shouldnt have posted anything until he had spoken at length to the people who did his rebuild / mapping.

- anyone remember that hurley thread?

Richard how are you going to transport the engine when you have it out? i don\'t live far from RXmotors if that\'s where you want it to go, i may be able to collect and take it (subject to when! work times, etc,) let me have your email address if you want some help with that,i\'ll see what i can do, good luck with removal, i managed mine ok, it\'s not too bad to be honest,
Bob

Quotemaybe the guy who mapped it should have seen it? you surely would pick up on a loose / under ignition during mapping??

One of the down sides with rolling road tuning/mapping is you don\'t get all the variables you do on a road. I bet all you guys that aren\'t running water injection have been seeing mega high intake temps the last few weeks which also means all the ancillaries under the bonnet coils etc are much hotter than the norm which increases the load on all components. However good someone is you can\'t map for all conditions and eventualities. Even if it turns out to be the alarm wiring the extra heat in the wiring increases the electrical resistance which in turn increases the load on components causing more heat its a vicious circle.
Kevin

Bingo someone who understands^

Richard,

Sorry if it\'s been answered, but why was the engine rebuilt in the first instance?

Also was the WI on at the time. I thought this should have helped ward off det, at least enough for a safety margin. Was it mapped with or without WI?

Apologies if this is off-topic, judging by the last 3 pages I think it must be!

Hope you get it back together soon, much of the magic of an RX7 (for me) is the little bundle under the hood, hope it doesn\'t give you much trouble after the next rebuild.

Cheers, Jode

Quote from: MikeLMRThe money making side of things just gets in the way IMHO and I would love to see MRC free of all trade adds paid up or not.

Totally agree Mike, and there\'s an easy solution to that!

you use Wi as a extra safety factor I do not know a tuner that maps to WI they just use it as a safety factor. BUT they make sure there is enough fuel there as far as they can so if the WI fails that the engine should last. I do highlight the as far as they CAN

Yes, that i know. However I\'m sure a tuner would map to WI if asked, if we assumed/presumed everything then we\'d never find the cause of any problems, hence i ask.

Edit: editted for clarification and grammar.

Alarm/Turbo Timer/Whatever, if it interupts the wire surrounding the IGN then it\'s bad news in my eyes. I have the luxury of starting from a bare shell, I can chose the age/resistance/length/colour of my entire wiring loom, my car won\'t break because of a mass produced wiring loom fault. It\'ll be thrashing the living daylights out of it that breaks it! If you are worried, buy a new loom, have your alarm fitted properly, buy a warrenty from a company that will touch a 15 year old car. Plenty of Imports are sold with aftermarket warrentes, they amount to nothing when the motor blows and it\'s due to "lack of maintenance", and that applies to about anything that could have possible caused the engine to fail. YOU OWN A SPORTSCAR!!! THEY ARE EXPENSIVE!!!! try and have some fun in it.

Quote from: kev-yorksOne of the down sides with rolling road tuning/mapping is you don\'t get all the variables you do on a road.

Tru Dat.  For example mine doesn\'t sustain full boost in the Rollers and peak power is made at 0.9 bar.  On the road it holds 1.1 bar rock steady!

Tuning is as much art as science.

Wow took me ages reading all of this topic.

Some good points made and some daft comments made, lets just wait to see the actual cause before everyone gets carried away blaming each other, i  think the problem is that specialists can create great results 99% of the time but when there is a single fault there is a massive backlash, of course if you spend big money you expect good results but just sometimes there can be issues.

As for warranties, i think if a car is already modified when rebuilt then the warranty should stand however if the car is modded after the rebuild then surely the engine builder cannot be blamed as their work has been overshadowed by the newer mods.

As for reliability i must say in 3 yrs of rotary ownership i have been quite lucky nothing major has gone wrong, i dont do track/drag days and Derby is not that busy as regards to traffic thus the engine is not under too much stress, most of the mods i have had done are all reliability based not performance based WI has been the latest addition for the summer months. Believe me i dont drive slow either but dont put the car through daft punishment and i believe so far this has deffo been a bonus as per the reliability side of things.

If you are going to abuse the car to the maximum you can then dont be suprised that you get issues with reliability, yes they are performance cars but as such the correct care and maintainence must be applied. :god

All good stuff there matey, .. from whats been disclosed this car hasn\'t been abused even slightly, if Richard\'s not dismissing anything from his account then somethings gone wrong, and a \'couple of grand\' wrong at that. Tempremental or not, that\'s a good deal of money, even in monopoly land.

Ok people, I\'ve just tidied up this here thread, all the whinging, moaning and most of the off topic stuff is now gone.  (I know some of what I\'ve removed was not offensive etc, but its easier this way and keeps the meat of the thread intact)

 Keep it clean, lets get some definative answers out of this thread :)

Here\'s a rebuild warrenty from Rx for your 7 in Aus. Thought it would provide food for thought.

RRR - Rotary Response and Racing

Rotary Response and Racing and Rx for your 7 warrant to the original purchaser that each reconditioned or new built engine shall be free, under normal use and with required periodic maintenance as set forth by the original manufacturer (RRR), from defect in material and workmanship subject to the following terms and conditions:

Term:  This warranty shall exist for 12 months/12,000 miles (for reconditioned) or 36 months/36,000 miles (for new built) whichever occurs first. This shall commence from date and mileage of installation by Rx for your 7, or seven days from the date of shipment for mail order.

Standards: Subject to the provisions of Limitations hereof. RRR, after inspection and approval, shall repair, or replace said engine within the term set forth without charge to the owner user.

Limited Liability: The liability of RRR under this warranty is limited solely to the repair or replacement of defective parts or workmanship. RRR shall not be liable for any incidental, special consequential or exemplary damages, or for any service not expressly provided for herein relating to or arising from the RRR engine.

Limited Warranty: This warranty is given in lieu of all other warranties, express or implied, including any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose on the part of RRR. No dealer, nor any agent or employee thereof, is authorized to extend or enlarge this warranty.

Limitations: This warranty applies only to the basic engine block and internal parts replaced in the reconditioned or new built engine. This warranty shall not apply to, or include any of the following:  

Repair, or replacement required as a result of any accident or misuse.

Repair, or replacement of any engine accessory or service items, including specifically without limitations all components of cooling, fuel, electrical and emission control systems, and all points, plugs, filters and belts.

Any damage due to competition, racing, or related purpose.

Any engine which has been repaired or modified by any person or firm other than RRR, or to which any device or accessory not conforming to original manufacturer\'s specifications has been installed or removed.

Any engine in which periodic maintenance services required by RRR  and described hereto have not been performed.

Any engine which has been overheated, or oil starved.

Required Maintenance:

Oil and Filter Change: First 500 miles, every 3,000 miles for non turbo, every 1,500 miles for turbo

Coolant Change: Every 12,000 miles or annually. No more than 50% antifreeze.

Fuel Filter Change: Every 12,000 miles or annually, 20,000 miles for 3rd Gen

Air Filter Change: Every 12,000 miles or annually, 20,000 miles for 3rd Gen

Proper ignition timing, fuel mixture and emission settings must be maintained at all times.

 
Required Repairs/Parts at time of engine installation:

Rod out and repair or replacement of radiator

Replacement of thermostat and water pump

Alternator and air pump belts recommended

Radiator, heater and engine water hoses recommended

QuoteAny engine which has been repaired or modified by any person or firm other than RRR...

That\'s interesting: basically, says that they will replace a failed modified engine, as long as it has been modified by the company issuing the warrenty.

I would guess that the same applies in this country. Can any of the vendors confim this?

Also interesting that they insist on the rad being new or cleaned too, makes a lot of sense :)

Both my modified engines were covered only because all ancilaries were approved and set up correctly. As stated before if you are into DIY get approval from your tuner / engine builder.

And I thought I was having problems with giving 10 year guarntee on all our block paved driveways!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rollin

trouble is theirs so many attributes that can cause a rotary engine to fail its scary:2Confused
running lean, to high intake, water leaks, over boosting, ignition probs etc etc etc....
tim rebuilt my last fd for my mate, he had it 2 week and turned the boost up to a bar on std ecu with std fuel setup, needless to say it popped  in 3rd gear racing an evo on motorway.
the engine was 2 weeks old!
I then bought the car of my mate, I took the engine out and sent it down to tims place on a pallet, and fair play to tim he rebuilt it again charging me for an apex seal and a bit of labour knowing full well that it over boosted.

Tim is fair in business in my eyes.

A certificate guarantee does need to be issued stating all clauses of cover signed by customer and vendor.

pip at wgt has u signing a disclaimer before your car goes anywhere nere the dyno to cover is ass incase of a pop,
sign on the dotted line for your guarantee after reading the small print and there will be know more of these silly disputes

Hayward rotary cover detonation in their warranties on all engines built, from stock rebuilds to full on race engines (including track day engines as long as they are fitted with recommended parts) obviously the price will vary depending on the engine that is built. My engine is modified and was warrantied. I cant speak for other vendors and am only stating from my experience dealing with Carl and crew.
The only exception/s in the warranties are no mods should be done either by the owner or another tuner without their knowledge that way the warranty would not become void.

I spent 6 months researching, speaking to various people before I decided who was going to build my engine.

I hope you can get to the bottom of this detonation problem and find out the cause, a very interesting thread none the less.

Jase

Quote from: nikpThat\'s interesting: basically, says that they will replace a failed modified engine, as long as it has been modified by the company issuing the warrenty.

I would guess that the same applies in this country. Can any of the vendors confim this?

The warranty for my rebuild @ WGT was similar.  It was only modified in terms of porting but warranty still applied.  I would expect that for any road engine.

Drag and circuit specific builds would be a little different though I\'d suspect.

Quote from: cjryou use Wi as a extra safety factor I do not know a tuner that maps to WI they just use it as a safety factor. BUT they make sure there is enough fuel there as far as they can so if the WI fails that the engine should last. I do highlight the as far as they CAN

Are we talking WI where a mist is sprayed on to the intercooler to keep it\'s temperatures down, or are we talking in to the intake or manifold.
If it\'s the latter then I\'d insist the car was tuned with it running else you\'ll risk running lean.
And before you flame me - WI in the latter example is used as an addition or alternative to inter/charge-cooling, helping reduce intake temperatures, making the air denser, and thus requiring more fuel.
I personally do not like WI because I came to the FD3 arena from the track day scene where it is a consumable that could run out while still on the track (resulting in an engine heading south), however there are obviously people around here who do and who do keep an eye on the fluid levels.

The way I understand it .... water injection means that you can run less fuel i.e leaner. because it supresses the detonation so you can lean out the fuel and advance ignition etc. hence more power. It is very efective and lots of people all over the world run it as an aid to power rather than a safety net. Its not a new idea either its been done since WWII (e.g. increased power for short bursts on fighters etc. water/methanol injection)

This is the thread to read if you are interested ... very good info.

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38929

Quote from: MikeLMRThe way I understand it .... water injection means that you can run less fuel i.e leaner. because it supresses the detonation so you can lean out the fuel and advance ignition etc. hence more power. It is very efective and lots of people all over the world run it as an aid to power rather than a safety net. Its not a new idea either its been done since WWII (e.g. increased power for short bursts on fighters etc. water/methanol injection)

This is the thread to read if you are interested ... very good info.

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38929

Absolutely right Mike, but all the tuners I know they tend to use it as a safety net for those that wish to run + 1.0bar [ie leaving the engine on the rich side at wot]

My view is it\'s the same as with any mod.  Anything that will affect the engine, be it gas flow, intake temperatures, octane of fuel, needs to be taken in to consideration when it comes to tuning.  This is especially so with engines as fragile as rotaries.

In the MX5 FI tuning world, people used to use water injection, or methanol injection for cooling intake temperatures (and with methanol increasing the RON), however this was as a result to engine bay considerations with intercollers and charge coolers.  As soon as the latter started to appear, WI started to be dropped.

I saw Bill\'s comments about all the way back to Stoich - I always thought that was \'rich\' not \'lean\'.  My point is that in reducing temperatures you are leaning out the mixture and that has to be taken in to account.  I also note in teh articale there is no mention made about whether any tuning has taken WI in to account.  I do remember from my supercharged MX5 days that the people who still used WI did tune their cars to take in to account the extra cooling, either through a decent ECU (Motec 400 and beyond I seem to remember) or through add on ACUs and controllers.

stoichiometric is the chemically perfect ratio of fuel to air.

In it\'s simplest form if we take hydrogen which usually pairs up to form H2 you will need one "unit" (a Kmole usually) of H2 to every 1 oxygen to complete combustion and generate H2O as the only product. so thats all stoich is ... its a chemically perfect ratio.

Things like Carbon, carbon dioxide, nitrogen etc. make things a lot more complicated though that and about a million other variables

Quote from: MikeLMRstoichiometric is the chemically perfect ratio of fuel to air.

In it\'s simplest form if we take hydrogen which usually pairs up to form H2 you will need one "unit" (a Kmole usually) of H2 to every 1 oxygen to complete combustion and generate H2O as the only product. so thats all stoich is ... its a chemically perfect ratio.

Things like Carbon, carbon dioxide, nitrogen etc. make things a lot more complicated though that and about a million other variables

Excuse Mike..I think you are wrong,could you please give me the chart counter variables as well,so I can see where you are coming from...the way I see it: H=dc4xrf56\\ron3~\\de27^fg
            =hi-co2>

:Typing

I think we should split the info of WI into another thread.
Personally I will be tuning for WI and not just using it as a safety measure, a risk i know but if I blow it give me the perfect excuse to have the porting made huge.

When tuning for WI there are great gains in HP to be had as you can lean out the mixture

I was about to say the same - maybe separate off everything from your initial comment about water injection and/or my reply ?

I agree,  it should be seperated.

I think two very vaid points, there can tune for safety and not get such good performance, be safe if it runs out or you can rely on it and squeeze more horses.
In light of the original nature of this thread, if i was a tuner i would tune with it as a safety measure.  Thats why people who tune their own cars can generally get more power.   Mine runs quite rich because Max aires on the side of rich, i mean caution.  But i know its safe........

well, ive taken some bits off the engine in preperation for the removal. Took the injectors out for WGT to clean them and that will tell me whether they were blocked/ The rest of the fuel line looks fine though, although im going to get another new fuel filter too.

When reworx mapped the car im not sure whether they mapped for WI or not, i assummed not. All i know is that it comes on around 0.6bar and when it does activate the intake temps dive into the 20\'s/30\'s.

I also took the downpipe off as it was easy to do (just a Vband on the turbo). It looks like the turbo blades are fine, well they feel it anyway. Also i remember that there sounded like compression from 2 of the rotor tips when i compression checked it so hopefully its as matt at rxmotors says and only a tip that has cracked.

Finally, when taking some of the engine apart i noticed that the wiring around the ignition loom looked a little dodgy. When i unplugged the ignition amp the wiring sheething comming from the fusebox is slightly broken so the copper is exposed and it looks like the harness has an earth shield around it. This seemed strange to me as none of the rest of the harness is shielded. Ill take some pics tommorow and post them and see what people think.

Did anyone find out the cause of the engine going pop:confused:

It seems to me two things are missing here:

(1) A statement from the tuner responsible for stating the alarm could have caused engine failure - explaining his reasoning.

(2) Test results, where someone\'s actually independently checked on a healthy car fitted with an alarm with smaller gauge wire, if thickening the alledgedly offending wire would cause an improvement in currents to the coil packs.

I don\'t have an alarm on my RX-7, as it\'s in Japan - where there\'s no car theft, etc. but we have fitted many alarms to many RX-7\'s that have been running for years without need to rebuild, so I\'d like to know more.

Miguel

A very sensible reply there ^.

 From my investigations, that \'Alarm\' story was a cheap get out clause for lack of knowledge and a ruse!
 Shame alot of people bought it.......

:) Of course it was.

Goodbye MRC!

Quote from: maximtaylor:) Of course it was.

Goodbye MRC!

Max dont take it personally mate, its a valid story, if there is deffo proof of alarm causing engine failure we need to know about it but with facts.

If all specialists agree this is a valid reason then its likely but if we get different answers from different people its only right people with ask even more ??

Gurj

Quote from: TRexA very sensible reply there ^.

 From my investigations, that \'Alarm\' story was a cheap get out clause for lack of knowledge and a ruse!
 Shame alot of people bought it.......

Which investigations were they and why haven\'t you published your findings to the rest of the rotary community?

Unless by \'investigations\' you mean \'I\'ve decided it can\'t be the case so there!\'...

Quote from: TRexA very sensible reply there ^.

 From my investigations, that \'Alarm\' story was a cheap get out clause for lack of knowledge and a ruse!
 Shame alot of people bought it.......

:Nono!    PM Sent!

Sorry, I am not getting into a debate on this..

 Believe what you want...  I know better...  also like the others, I have not seen any evidence of this claim! (so I can shoot it to pieces with what I have);)



 .
Just to make it clear for the record... this is \'my\' opinion and I am entittled to say as I believe!

Quote from: TRexJust to make it clear for the record... this is \'my\' opinion and I am entittled to say as I believe!

:Thumbsup! as is any one else mate

It\'s quite hard to hold ones tongue on this thread....Especially when you know better. I hope moral courage prevails.

John

It seems strange, if a Tuner says something like this, is a full supporting vendor here, knows there\'s a 7+ page thread about it, yet doesn\'t once join this thread to explain his reasoning in writing....

Maybe he hasn\'t noticed. Can someone alert him to this thread?

Then we can hear it from the horse\'s mouth, so to speak.

Miguel.

As i understand, the \'Tuner\' has an employer participating in this thread, and has represented the reason behind the engine failure.
Has this \'problem\' been rectified on all the clients cars, or have there been more related incidents of late?

John

Quote from: NeweraThen we can hear it from the horse\'s mouth, so to speak.

Miguel.

I too would like to know more of the outcomes of this incident and the wider implications for the rest of us re alarms etc.

Max spitting his dummy following a wind up coment helps noone...

Trying to get my head around this thread,on the one side we have people in the trade saying one thing,on the other hand we have people not in the trade saying something else.....:Typing  both parties have not supplied hard factual evidence either way.
As a layman to all these gizmo alarms\\computors etc, all I want to do is expand my knowledge,however I have not learnt anything.............:wiggle  Can someone please post some facts.....:)

i think if there was a problem with alarms then there wld be every single engine going pop as all ins co will require a cat 1 alarm on any perf car so i wld say every rx7 in this country has a alarm on it..clifford is at the higher end of the market as regards quality along with toad..are we really saying that every rotary is now in danger of going pop..i have never heard of any engine going pop because of a alarm and there must be thousands of rx7s especially in the states with alarms on them.i am not an expert but have used clifford alarms for about 5 cars now and the only probs i have had are the sensors can be over sensitive.i simply cannot blve a engine went pop due to the alarm and especially as the car according to his post was showing all normal parameters for intake/water etc and unless i am wrong was off boost at tine of failure.my own engine is awaiting stripdown after only 1500 miles due only showing 6.5bar and 4.5bar compression since a rebuild and i will be interested to see the cause of this as well
i have now entrusted hayward rotary to rebuild it and map it properley

Quote from: NeweraIt seems to me two things are missing here:

(1) A statement from the tuner responsible for stating the alarm could have caused engine failure - explaining his reasoning.

Or you could just threaten the forum owner with legal action to cover up your mistakes and make sure your reputation stays squeaky clean to most. :2Rolleyes :2Rolleyes :2Rolleyes

ant seems like u know something about whats going on..maybe richard cash could come back on and enlighten us all...problem is it is hard to substantiate sub standard workmanship and all too easy to blame mitigating factors and i suspect certain things are done behind closed doors to prevent the full story/stories being published
i recently had a tel conversation with another unhappy rebuilt engine person who has had to have his engine stripped after a suspect rebuild

Quote from: rx7veilsideant seems like u know something about whats going on..maybe richard cash could come back on and enlighten us all...problem is it is hard to substantiate sub standard workmanship and all too easy to blame mitigating factors and i suspect certain things are done behind closed doors to prevent the full story/stories being published
i recently had a tel conversation with another unhappy rebuilt engine person who has had to have his engine stripped after a suspect rebuild

I was not referring to anyone involved in this incident. I 100% agree that the alarm could very well have caused this problem - I have heard of them causing many far worse problems than this in my time. I give RX motors and RE:Worx my full support I know the guys at those establishments they are all very honourable and decent people and I regard them as friends more than just people I have dealt with in the past. Other tuners I cant comment on as I havent dealt with them. I can promise you, if you pay RX Motors to do the job properly and dont skimp then they will do it and they will honour their warranty.

cant comment on rx motors as they have never done any work on my car..i still dont blve any alarm unless were talking 100.00 budget special could cause an engine to pop and i challenge anyone to come forward and show me a car whose engine has popped due to this..do the maths about all the rx7s worlwide aus/us/uk etc and has anyone ever posted oh dear my engine blew up because of my alarm..come to think of it has any car in the world blew up due to the alarm

I know from past experiance with different cars if an alarm is "incorrectly" fitted eg cut into the fuel pump wiring system with inadequate parts or care it will cause a voltage drop to the pump hence less fuel delivered to the engine and therefore will create a lean condition and possiable detonation.

In this case a possiablitly of being wired into the coil ignition system and causing a miss fire. So I thinks its all down to the installer and the parts used in the alarm. 9 times out of 10 an alarm will be fine, but the risk is there I think

Quote from: rx7veilsidecant comment on rx motors as they have never done any work on my car..i still dont blve any alarm unless were talking 100.00 budget special could cause an engine to pop and i challenge anyone to come forward and show me a car whose engine has popped due to this..do the maths about all the rx7s worlwide aus/us/uk etc and has anyone ever posted oh dear my engine blew up because of my alarm..come to think of it has any car in the world blew up due to the alarm

As Blitzboy says its the installers, and believe me some of them are bodge specialists.

valid point but if this is so common why wasnt it picked up on richards engine when it was mapped if there was ignition break up then its not acceptable that this wasnt highlighted as how is the layman meant to know he has ignition break up..my own car has a clifford and has had 20 plus dyno runs and no mention of ignition break up.and if its wired to the fuel pump this should also be noticed during a mapping session if the pump has voltage drop
i can only say i have never ever heard of any car going pop due to the alarm

Quote from: rx7veilsidevalid point but if this is so common why wasnt it picked up on richards engine when it was mapped if there was ignition break up then its not acceptable that this wasnt highlighted as how is the layman meant to know he has ignition break up..my own car has a clifford and has had 20 plus dyno runs and no mention of ignition break up.and if its wired to the fuel pump this should also be noticed during a mapping session if the pump has voltage drop
i can only say i have never ever heard of any car going pop due to the alarm

Well I can tell you if you try to run more boost then thats where you start to get the ignition probs, the spark starts getting blown out.

Quote from: maximtaylor:) Of course it was.

Goodbye MRC!

Shame to have lost Max because of things on here. He has helped out many of the people on the forum over the years.

ross u know a thing or 2 ever heard of any car popping because of a alarm and i mean any car
i think richard was running .96 but mapped for more
.96 is not by any means excessive as standard car will pull .9 with very few mods and he had plenty of fuel it wld seem

Quote from: A7NTYWell I can tell you if you try to run more boost then thats where you start to get the ignition probs, the spark starts getting blown out.

Not having a dig, Ant, but would like to use your comment as an example. Engine detonation is not, and cannot be caused by a weak spark, poor flame front or a flame blowout. This is a misconception. Poor ignition control, mapping error, incorrect plugs and bad fuel are the crappy culprits.

Would like to ask this of the guys who map for a living. How many people who map new customer\'s cars actually know what the static timing of each car they map is set at, and more importantly do they check this before commencing the remap. This is one of many checks i do before mapping any of the cars i touch.

Would also like to touch on another case. Whilst still in Germany, a friend\'s engine popped after the run in period. On strip down we found that the oil injector on the front housing was not securred properly, and had wound out. This caused sudden leaning, and detonation. The builder had a bruised ego.

Mistakes happen, but it is whats done about them that matters.
Cheers,

John

Quote from: 88GT-RMistakes happen, but it is whats done about them that matters.
Cheers,

John

I agree with that one!

Quote from: maximtaylorSeveral times I\'ve had cars that run fine on the dyno up to a certain rev / load point, and then the ignition suddenly starts missing.

Shove a direct 12v feed to the ignition from the battery and the miss goes.

Alarms are a very real problem on many FD\'s I\'ve tuned.

This is a completely clear statement from Max.  He\'s seen it a number of times where the fedd to the coils causes a problem.  It could be the alarm, it could be general ageing of the loom.  

I\'d beinterested to know if the people who are calling Max a liar have evidence to back that up?  Has he actually never seen this problem on the dyno or are you actually wrong but not prepared to admit it?

Quote from: iaintThis is a completely clear statement from Max.  He\'s seen it a number of times where the fedd to the coils causes a problem.  It could be the alarm, it could be general ageing of the loom.  

I\'d beinterested to know if the people who are calling Max a liar have evidence to back that up?  Has he actually never seen this problem on the dyno or are you actually wrong but not prepared to admit it?

Absolutely Iain. Why would he make it up? Some of you guys seem to think the whole world is out to get you..... ...your paranoid.

Quote from: A7NTYAbsolutely Iain. Why would he make it up? Some of you guys seem to think the whole world is out to get you..... ...your paranoid.

agreed  :yes

Some of the views in this thread are just crazy, until the engine is stripped down and the failing component(s) identified as well as the cause, pretty much everything that has been said is speculation.

Weak spark will cause an engine to run too hot, this happened on my old 1.1 pushrod Fiesta, eventually it burnt the rings out and it started using more oil than fuel, I doubt a rotary can last as long under those conditions as the Fiesta did.  The temperatures would also rocket.

I can\'t see why a vendor would give the reason of the alarm when it\'d be a damn site easier to blame each other...

88 GT-r

Isnt it possible that bad wiring/connections could cause a spark at the wrong time, and therefore detonation?

Here\'s a scenario for you:

Week spark may result in incomplete combustion, and therefore carbon buildup.  Carbon buildup could result in local hotspots in the rotor, causing pre ignition.  This can result in engine failure, because the point that ignition occurs is no longer under control.

Higher boost, more fuel, WI will all require a stronger spark to be sure and safe on the combustion - an ingintion amp is a safe precaution.

As for the alarms - CAT1 alarms must interrupt 2 circuits - commonly this is the fuel pump and the ignition circuit.  The size of the wires used on quite a few alarms I have seen are a lot smaller than the wire that is often spliced to interrupt power to the ingition and fuel injection circuits.  Smaller wire means higher resistance - higher resistance means more voltage drop.  If you reduce the voltage on the primary side of a transformer or \'coil\' you will by definition reduce the voltage on the secondary.  Since the voltage drop effect is effectively multiplied by the transformer, a small change in the primary will result in a much bigger change in the secondary circuit:

For example:

12 x 2500 = 30000

11.5 x 2500 = 28750


Power = volts x Amps, Amps = Volts / Resistance.  Resistance is the spark gap/mixture, so assuming this is constant :

Power = Volts x Volts / Resistance

So a small change in voltage causes a more significant change in power.

These facts speak for themselves - so I tend to put some store in comments by Max and others about wiring and weak sparks.

Just my opinion....

Prof.

Quote from: Martiny88 GT-r

Isnt it possible that bad wiring/connections could cause a spark at the wrong time, and therefore detonation?

Yes, totally. A weak spark though, won\'t. The wireing used in std ignition systems is not particulaly beefy, so any improvement here will always help.

Bare in mind also, that the wireing in the Microtech loom is not huge - similar to alarm wireing, but it is a requirement to join this into the std coil/ignitor wireing system, similar to how an alarm/immobilizer needs to be joined into the coil system. Speaking from personal experiance, i am yet to come across any ignition problems caused by the ecu wireing.

Cheers,
John

What you say Prof is bang on, but this is a new engine with minimal carbon build up. You as a driver, will notice a a poor or blown out spark. Did Richard experiance any other changes in the character of the engine leading up to the pop?

John

I think there is to much speculation here and the chap who had the original problem is clearly not interested any more.
Winding up people on this forum has become an art form and to lose a respected member with infinate knowlege on tuning, engine building, preparation for trackwork is a great shame.
I have still not seen any proof from you guys who say an alarm can not cause ignition problems. I know of many dodgy alarm installs that have caused endless problems, I have also known many people who have had their cars mapped driven of down the road and started altering things then start crying when it goes bang.
Being in the tuning game must be thankless trade at times you are on a hiding to nothing. For every negative tuning experience there are hundreds posative ones. Every tuner gets these negative comments from time to time and unsubstasiated claims are damaging to parties involved.

If a tuner pulls the lump out of the car rebuilds it puts it back in,maps the car,then holds out his hand and takes your money and gives you the warranty,your dam fekin right when it blows he should sort it out!!!!thats why people goto tuners for peice of mind and backup!!if the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on then why give one at all?i mean yea if your turbo ****s itself and causes damage fair enough,but a fekin alarm wire???come off it,i\'d dragg his ass through the courts and then see if he can prove to you that an alarm wire just blew your motor!!if he has seen this happen before why not put it on the warranty??anyone getting an alarm fitted warning it will keep theives at bay but make break your engine :bandit

One thing I know for sure, RE:Worx take the alarm wire business very seriously.  When I was there a month back, they insisted on swapping out the immobiliser wire for thick custom stuff.  They told me then that it was important, as the thin wire put in by alarm installers can lead to a weak spark.

Read into it what you will !!

Also, I hope Max comes back.  A great shame to see him go.  Don\'t take it personally old chap.  :Thumbs-up

Quote from: TravisIf a tuner pulls the lump out of the car rebuilds it puts it back in,maps the car,then holds out his hand and takes your money and gives you the warranty,your dam fekin right when it blows he should sort it out!!!!thats why people goto tuners for peice of mind and backup!!if the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on then why give one at all?i mean yea if your turbo ****s itself and causes damage fair enough,but a fekin alarm wire???come off it,i\'d dragg his ass through the courts and then see if he can prove to you that an alarm wire just blew your motor!!if he has seen this happen before why not put it on the warranty??anyone getting an alarm fitted warning it will keep theives at bay but make break your engine :bandit

I take by the amount of posts you are new here and jumping on the band wagon without a shread of evidense is excusable but not READING the whole thread is unforgivable. You find a touch of DIY and another tuner / rebuilder is involved. So backup ol boy.

Quote from: TravisIf a tuner pulls the lump out of the car rebuilds it puts it back in,maps the car,then holds out his hand and takes your money and gives you the warranty,your dam fekin right when it blows he should sort it out!!!!thats why people goto tuners for peice of mind and backup!!if the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on then why give one at all?i mean yea if your turbo ****s itself and causes damage fair enough,but a fekin alarm wire???come off it,i\'d dragg his ass through the courts and then see if he can prove to you that an alarm wire just blew your motor!!if he has seen this happen before why not put it on the warranty??anyone getting an alarm fitted warning it will keep theives at bay but make break your engine :bandit

:flamed       :Typing     :xconfused

not too much else to say to that really

Quote from: TravisIf a tuner pulls the lump out of the car rebuilds it puts it back in,maps the car,then holds out his hand and takes your money and gives you the warranty,your dam fekin right when it blows he should sort it out!!!!thats why people goto tuners for peice of mind and backup!!if the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on then why give one at all?i mean yea if your turbo ****s itself and causes damage fair enough,but a fekin alarm wire???come off it,i\'d dragg his ass through the courts and then see if he can prove to you that an alarm wire just blew your motor!!if he has seen this happen before why not put it on the warranty??anyone getting an alarm fitted warning it will keep theives at bay but make break your engine :bandit

Mate have you actually read the thread?? Reworx mapped the car they didnt "build" the engine, RXMotors built the engine the engine warranty lies with Tim and "RXmotors" not with anyone else.

We will never know the true cause of the engine failure you can never really tell. I have blown engines with different causes eg oil injector failure,fuel pump failure due to surge. There are many different factors which can cause a rotary to go.

Reworx are advising people with Alarms to have them rewired with thicker wire and wired in correctly to stop any possiabilty of ignition missfire as a precaution. They have rewired mine in the past free of charge as part of a service to me, so yes please I like to take the precaution and take one factor that may make my engine unreliable out of the equation.

Quote from: BlitzBoyso yes please I like to take the precaution and take one factor that may make my engine unreliable out of the equation.

Blitz - I think YOU are the biggest factor in making your engines unreliable..  :D

yes agreed Im a fduking nightmare with my own car I am a power junkie and cant help pushing the envelope :rollin

MODS.Is it not possible to close this thread, as it appears to be going round and round in circles, causing more grief than anything constructive.
Cheers,
J

Hi John,  Clive has actually written a long email to Max on behalf of the club - pleading for him not to leave us.  As we all value his opinion very highly.
 
There are questions in this thread that remain unanswered, and if anyone is to benefit from this it would be RE:Worx by posting up their side of the story.
 
What I will do for the moment is temporarily close the thread upon your request.  But I personally would really like RE:Worx to reply - so I\'ll PM Geff about this now.

The following is a statement from MRC, based on information supplied from Geff, Max, & Chris at RE:Worx:

MRC\'s general understanding is that RE:Worx with the large amount of Dyno work that they do, had ignition issues with some cars that had alarms/immobilisers installed. They were having problems with Ignition break-up which is obviously very serious on a rotary engine, especially a forced induction engine - and not necessarily pushing the limits of it.

As we all know the Rotary Engine is a temperamental beast, now if anyone was in their position tuning a car, had ignition break-up/misfires - you would obviously be concerned and look for possible causes (as you can\'t even tune it in that scenario).

What RE:Worx have found is that on removal of the Alarm system, OR rewiring of the Alarm system and/or surrounding areas - they cured the problem. Don\'t forget that many of these cars are 10-15 or so years old now, and the wiring goes through a lot of heat in the engine bay etc.

As to EXACTLY WHAT was causing the problem will be a debate that runs on forever. HOWEVER the KEY here is that upon removing the Alarm/Immobiliser system and/or rewiring they cured the problem.

For issues like this, it puts RE:Worx in a very difficult position and no matter what they say and do they will be shot down.

.ps We have begged Max to stay around as well.  The Rotary World needs you Max!