Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 12:08:29 PM

Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 12:08:29 PM
hello all after picking up my car yesterday i eventually got it running and had a problem with lumpy idle and not boosting. After carrying out a compression test i found that the rear rotor was 14.4 bar and the front rotor 0.0bar which would explain the idle and boost as its still on twins.

Any way this afternoon i will remove the engine for rebuild any tips welcome. eg is it a self contained lume, is it easyier to tak eout with sub frame, what i need to disconnect etc. any help is much appreiceated. i will also take loads of piks of the rebuild and document it along the way.

cheers Mr_7
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: colin777 on July 09, 2006, 12:15:37 PM
how much is compression test lad?
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: banned advertiser on July 09, 2006, 12:17:12 PM
who tested you engine as those readings dont seem right. Good compression on a new engine will 8 or 9 max, where did you get 14 from
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 12:26:51 PM
done the test my self using an old compression tetser on the bottom spark plug hole on each rotor it definitly came up with that i just checked 220psi / 14.4 bar give or take. the equipment probably isnt calibrated any way it still shows there is none on rotor 1 and i removed the plug and u could clearly feel there was none where as rotor 2 was chugging nicely.

also should i take it out with gearbox still on
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 12:27:01 PM
lol, i was wondering where the 14.4 bar came from! also 0.0 compression? how do you get 0 compression (well unless all 3 apexs are blown i guess?)

Think you better get that rechecked!
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 12:30:53 PM
removal of the engine looks pretty straight forward....once you got all the crap off, you begin to see it all a lot easier....like ive said in anopther thread, im re-doing the rats nest and it only took me 45 mins to get down to this:

http://jitesh512.fotopic.net/p31396196.html

From here, i can see the top set of gearbox-engine bolts and could easily get to them....the downpipe would need to be disconnected from the cat. obviously id need to remove the battery and IC as well but it doesnt seem to bad to pull the engine on these....and you should be able t o remember where everything goes back
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
yes just taken all the intercooler off and drained the fluids and removed coolant pipes didnt think i would have to remove the plenum chamber il see if i can get around it to the g/box bolts. also if u dont wish to help or post any thing constructive please dont reply to my posts
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 01:27:15 PM
Err...iirc youre sposed to use the top spark plug hole when compression testing.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 01:35:11 PM
oh ok. well it still should get compression on rotor one no matter where its measured shouldnt it rotor 2 did? also the plugs in rotor one are fresh oiled.

also when removing the engines should i leave the a/c pump and power steering pump in situ or drain them and take it out with them? and where the lume goes into the bulk head passengers side near the glove box how do i access this to remove with lume if thats the best option
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 01:52:41 PM
not sure about the ps or ac pumps...with regards to the loom, ive been led to believe that its easiest to disconnect the car loom from the ecu and pull it thru the firewall from the engine side pushing from the footwell and pulling from outside (if that makes sense!)

I stilll think it might be better to compression test it properly on the top holes before you pull it though...
Title: engine removal
Post by: Eddie on July 09, 2006, 01:53:51 PM
Hi Mr_7

I cant answer any of your questions but I got a 13B engine removal dvd by trevor lam, answered all of my questions and would have made life really easy if I needed to remove my engine.
Have a quick search on ebay, or try one of the vendors I know rotaryart do a set of DVD\'s which are very good, you may even get a set from someone who has already done a engine removal from the group.

Make interresting watching and will make life easier in the end, and saves waiting for responces from the group.

Cheers
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 02:00:40 PM
alternatively, you can buy my copy of the bruce turrentine dvd....i decided i dont need it! [/shameless free plug]
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 02:32:32 PM
yes i went on rotary art i like the idea of a 4 box set dvd. what one do you have one2watch and how come u dont need it?

i will be able to remove the engine and ancillarys easy enough just once its out i will need help to check things and rebuild them in the correct oredr using the right torque settings and sequences
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 02:37:55 PM
got the rotary aviation dvds mate... //www.rotaryaviation.com
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: nikp on July 09, 2006, 02:38:22 PM
Leave air con and power steering pumps in engine bay, still connected to their lines. Remove from engine. Disconnect loom from ECU and push through bulk head - keep connected to the engine whilst it is removed.

Remove engine without gearbox and downpipe (i.e. Remove downpipe first, and leave gearbox in place)
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 03:19:28 PM
nikp thanx i have left the a/c and p/s pumps in i have disconnected water and oil pipes and started to undo the g/box. where should i undo lume from eg do i have to remove glove box? and do i undo the exhaust downpipe from the turbos or cat? cheers

one2watch what dvd is it you have the removal and refitting one or the rebiuld and overhual 13b one? i would be intrested if its the later one also how much would u like pm me.

thanx for all the help guys
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 03:35:05 PM
i have both dvds mate....cant pm... my email is  

I would have thought you could remove the engine with the downpipe still attached...ive seen it done....


Sorry but as of 1/3/06 non-members are now not allowed to post their e-mail address or start new threads due to a decision made at the AGM unless they are selling in the for sale section .
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 04:15:52 PM
yes leaving the downpipe on makes sense as there are so many heat shields, silly question but the gearbox is now undone once i go to remove the engine from it will it sperate ok as i see it has a hydrualic slave cylinder?

should be out within two hours i hope also email sent
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Jit on July 09, 2006, 04:29:25 PM
I think you have to disengage the clutch as the FD uses a pull type clutch.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 04:33:17 PM
how do i go about doing that the by bleeding it at the slave cylinder also where is the ecu? i removed the glovebox and lower trim and was confronted by the a/c evaporator what do i have to remove to get to it cheers
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Grizzly on July 09, 2006, 04:37:20 PM
Take the Inspection plate of the Bottom of the gear box and remove the clutch to Flywheel blots, you will need to turn the flywheel to get all of them. There is a few ways of turning the Flywheel but i found the best is to tr by hand first (usaly quite easy to turn) if not a big screw driver in the Flyweek ring gear will turn it.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 04:40:59 PM
ow you do it on autos i go try it
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Grizzly on July 09, 2006, 04:42:51 PM
ECU is easy too, If you look in the Pasnger Foot well there\'s a Panel on the left, remove this. Then unscrew the ECU from its mounting and unplug the loom.

Once this is don\'e you will need to stick your head under the dash and find the other Plug that conects the Clocks etc (i think there is also an earth???. Once all these are off get some one to give you a hand and gentaly feed the Loom through the bulk head while the second person gentaly pulls it clear.

This is the easyest way i think, The engine Vac pipes and loom is very Complex and its nice to have it out where you can take LOTS!! of pics as you strip it.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Grizzly on July 09, 2006, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: Mr_7ow you do it on autos i go try it
Auto\'s??? Erm not sure i\'ve never done an Auto... But they don\'t have Clutches in the First place??
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 05:06:13 PM
right just undone that yes its exactly like a merc auto you have to remove the ring gear from the torque converter through an inspection hole now thats done all thats left is the ecu so im off and will repost in half hour
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 06:09:19 PM
right ecu is out and harness everything has been undone but the engine wont sepeate from the gearbox why is this? also i have only undone the 2 engine mounts do i need to undo the gearbox mount it really is stuck and its getting wquite late
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: nikp on July 09, 2006, 06:41:52 PM
There is no gearbox mount! The gearbox \'float\'s - it\'s connected to the engine and the diff via the central \'C\' bar (Can\'t remember it\'s proper name right now!). So you going to need a jack under the gearbox to take the weight of it. So, take the weight of the engine and bring it up a bit at a time, whilst taking the weight of the gearbox with a jack until the gearbox is touching the roof of the gearbox tunnel. Then just \'shake\' and wobble and prise the engine away from the gearbox.....You have undone the bolts of the clutch to the flywheel haven\'t you?
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 07:19:24 PM
hello nikp yes i undid the clutch to flywheel bolts i just thought the 6 bolts at the back of the box were the mount ok i will try tommorrow now as i knackered and havent eaten lol

also my car has twin oil coolers is it a type-r if not how do i know what model it ois cheers
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Grizzly on July 09, 2006, 07:37:25 PM
Have you taken the Engine mounts off completly??? If so get it on an Engine lift with a jack under the gear box, get the engine 1" clear of the Subframe and wiggle it side to side. It\'ll only be the Bearing in the end of the E-Shaft. Just keep an eye on the Down pipe if the box is in the wrong position it will get stuck against the Floor.

Just be carfull the Engine is Mighty heavy with all the Turbo\'s etc on don\'t go trapping your Fingures.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 09, 2006, 07:43:06 PM
cheers grizzly il try that and repost tomos thanks for yours and everyone elses help
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: davehg on July 09, 2006, 10:31:51 PM
going back a few posts you WILL need to take off the downpipe as you may end up getting it jammed on the bulkhead. its not much work to remove it in situ
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Grizzly on July 09, 2006, 10:48:11 PM
Putting it back maybe but taking off??? its all about getting the gear box in the right place, Having the engine mounts off and moving the engine as far forward as poss before lifting it too much.

Taking the down pipe off before removing the engine is dramaticly harder to do than taking your time with it on.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: stuart wizy on July 10, 2006, 01:09:09 AM
I took the mounts of and jacked the engine up to max height then undo downpipe bolts. Make sure u have definatly undone all bolts from clutch to flywheel through little inspection cover at the bottom of the bellhousing, then give it a good wiggle pulling and she will come out.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: nikp on July 10, 2006, 10:14:00 AM
Quotegoing back a few posts you WILL need to take off the downpipe as you may end up getting it jammed on the bulkhead. its not much work to remove it in situ

I concur with Dave on this....mainly because we tried taking the engine out of mine with the downpipe on, and it did become jammed. It was a lot easier to remove the downpipe before removing the engine.
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 10, 2006, 08:16:22 PM
thanx guys unfortuantly its to wet here to finish taking it out tommorrow so will have another go tommorrow cheers again
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 11, 2006, 08:28:46 PM
hey guys thanx for the help got home from work today and started straight on it once i took the weight off the gearbox and removed the manifold off it slid out like a well lubed ho.

thats part one done now im 2 days behind schedule this weekend i will strip it down to the housings and rotors so looking forward to that also picked up a huge solid metal workstation to build it on soo all good here

thanx again all
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: Mr_7 on July 11, 2006, 08:30:44 PM
oh also bought soome nice 3" dished 18\'s for it today and a full carbon spoil so looking goodnh
Title: Engine removal (after compression test)
Post by: richard cash on July 14, 2006, 11:48:32 AM
Are all these things mentioned the same principle in any car? My mate who is helping me take mine out has done loads of engine removals on european cars and fords, but nothing as "exotic" as a high powered jap car.