Hiya guys
got home last night and the IC was well and truly HOT
so FMIC looks the way forward - god i love new projects ( that i will prob never finish !!! )
sooooooooooooooooooooo :D :D
i have a few questions
1 - is there any preference to elbow that i need ???
2 - i have been told that a S5 NA will work just fine
3 - Will a FD one work ( the stock one in plastic )
4 - are they just bolt on and thats it - nothing else to do elbow wise
5 - any idea on the size of the TMIC - just to gauge the FMIC against
6 - do i need a FMIC of a specific size or will any do
7 - is there a preference to outlet size on the FMIC - i take it that 2.5 - 3 inch will be just fine and dandy
8 - can i stick a FMIC on with the stock ECU - all i want it cooler air
9 - do i need to mount it in a particular place ( ie not infront of the rad ? )
10 - are we looking at a HUGE job to do this
11 - will i need really deep pockets
12 - i take it that one end of the FMIC will bolt straight into the turbo or can you mount it on the of the pipe where the stock IC fits ( top of engine left hand side )
13 - what about the bov i have now in the stock piping - is this re-usable
i think thats enough for now - its just so that i can get my head around it and work from there :D
cheers guys and if this gets the right sort of answers i will make some sort of FAQ sticky so that people can find it
Ta
Stu
Stu, pm me your number and we can talk about this, as it may well turn out that I have to change my new setup if I go for the bigger turbo anyhoo! I have an Evo VI FMIC with custom hardpiping build by RX Motors. I can tell you how much work was involved and cost as well!
it isnt that easy to fit a FMIC to an FC as mark mentioned, there is loads of room in the front but its getting the pipe work to it that can be an issue as the PS in the way.
You can by a bigger throttle body elbow for the series 5 from ebay us, or you can graft a FD UIM and use a greddy elbow or the stock elbow.
You have asked too many questions but if mark doesnt answer any q\'s you have you are welcome to ring me.
Regards
Tony
PM Sent
a very easy way is to get a Greddy FMIC Kit.....
...... but for sure not Stu his budget way :-)
REgards
Iwan
i knew i would get a response like this !!
didnt think of the power steering bit - to be honest not really looked that close in the engine bay to see whats its like
tony - speak to ya later
mark - you have a pm
Stu
thanks Stu, I\'ll give you a bell later
Oh god...here we go :rollin
You may have to stretch a little beyond £50 Stu!
Let me know what answers you get via email during the week mate, then we can discuss :yes
Another option Stu is water injection
Kevin
i spoke to pip about WI and he said that its pointless with the current IC set up - he said its far tooo small to do the job - although WI will help - a FMIC is far better
its a project i would love to do - its just the £££££££££££££ that scares me to be honest
i dont mind spending money - its just that i prefer not to !!
the chap accross the road has a really nice FMIC on his polo and is 24 inch by 7 inch tall - this is about the size i would want to be honest - not overly big but prob a lot bigger than the TMIC
is this tooooooooooooo small ????
Stu
How much room have you got to work with Stu i\'ve a 20b cooler sat at work if you can fit it in.
Kevin
how big is it ?????
I\'ll measure it over the weekend Stu and let you know. I do know there a upgrade for the stock fd cooler about the same frontal area but deeper.
Kevin
cheers matey :D
the cosmo one is a good option, it isnt just the actual size of the core that you need to worry about, the holes inside the core for the boost to go through also make a difference as to how restrictive it is. Anything more than 3 psi drop from one side to the other and its not efficient.
If you look inside side the Cosmo one you will see the holes are quite large, but if you looked in the polo one for example, they would be very small.
The only issue with the cosmo one is that the in & out point forward so you would have to tip the top of the rad forward which means it becomes to high.
I have put fmic\'s in the last 2 of my TII\'s. The first time i put a narrower (but deeper) rad so i could get the pipes past each side, This time i cut holes in the inner wings (under the batterie) both sides to get the pipes through. But then you have to move the batterie.
the polo one - no idea what its like - but its a Mocal one ( thinkauto )
if it means cutting wings then so be it .... im gonna run the rex into the ground anyways so i dont think i will be selling it on - once it goes pop i will just break it for spares or tow it to the scrappy :(
i have been tooo tame with the car so far ( i make sure the everything i fit i can remove and put back to stock if need be ) - i dont think this is possible with the front mount
i have some stuff for moving the battery aswell - so thats no a real issue
the goal with the car is around 200 at the wheels - i dont do track days etc.. so i dont want mammouth power - just enough to scare scoobie drivers etc... :D
Stu
Stu,
If you are only after 200bhp at the rear wheels - then just do a decat straight through 3" exhaust, decent induction kit - which I think you have, and an aftermarket rom tuned ECU replacement - that will get you close on 250-270 bhp at the flywheel - but you will have to run on good fuel - 99 or Opti to be sure of keeping away from detonation - intake temp will still be warm - hot, but fueling changes in the ecu will help a bit there.
If you want to run a bit more boost then you will then need to think about cooling.
im running about .8 now - which is prob the most for the stock tubby ( if not over )
and i have no real way of controlling it
i can control fueling when i get the SAFC plumbed in
its just that the TMIC was very warm so i really want to sort that out - and in a chavvy way i really like the look of the FMIC :D
Stu
I\'ll try and text those pics of the setup that Matt did on mine to you at some point today mate. From what Tim was saying the stock turbo should be able to handle up to 1BAR if you have the fueling.
Might want to port the wastegate though - to help control boost creep - the S5 is much better than S4 turbo, because it has 2 holes under the flap for the wastegate - but even these will not deal with a large flow of exhaust. :(
Porting the wastegate is apparently a time consuming but relatively cheap mod to get higher boost levels out of the stock turbo with a boost controller and avoid creep. But you will want to lose the cat to get the best results :cool
There was a good link on fc3s-pro.com on how to do that, but looks like that domain has gone now :(
From memory, you need to remove the rear exhaust turbine housing, which includes the wastegate, and disconnect the actuator rod. Then hold the flap back with some tie raps or elastic bands so you can get at the holes. Then grind out the holes as much as you can with a long burr, - there is probably a couple of mm to be had in diameter increase on the wastegate holes themselves as well - and I believe they join into a single exit into the exhaust outlet - need to widen from that end as well.
Alternatively - andresturbo in the US do a beefed up hybrid version of the HT18 with a 60-1 T04B front end compressor section, and the ported wastegate and high flow exhaust turbine - they are reconditioned / remanufactured - but come with a guarantee - relatively cheap at £370 - plus postage and import from US - with the right front end mods, porting, FMIC and fueling this turbo will net over 500bhp ! :D Good thing is no need to change exhaust or manifold for this baby ;)
However, I was reading somewhere that the basic 13BT engine block will not go much beyond 400BHP as the block itself has some weeknesses and cooling issues at these high output figures
mine is running 460 with no issues at all. I have heard that the earlier turbo II rear hoising is weak around the rear dowl but i have a new housing which sorted this problem. Other than that and hardened stationary gear there isnt much difference between the 13b and the REW. Does anyone know of any other differences?
Do they run the same oil pressure as an FD? i know the oiling is slightly better in the FD to help with the extra revs.
will you lot stop trying to spend my money !! LOL
its an interesting project - its just a lot of readin up on !!
just weighing up the pro\'s and con\'s at the mo ( down side is that i cant play in the 100mph challenge :( )
Stu
G - the cheapest way to get lower temps is to stick some ice cubes in your washer bottle and then put the windscreen washer hoses so that they spray directly onto your intercooler!! hehe wont cost you a penny! :p
fitting a front mount cant be that hard - best to look at how other people have done it and then see if you can make your own setup better!
Quote from: ProfStu,
If you are only after 200bhp at the rear wheels - then just do a decat straight through 3" exhaust, decent induction kit - which I think you have, and an aftermarket rom tuned ECU replacement - that will get you close on 250-270 bhp at the flywheel - but you will have to run on good fuel - 99 or Opti to be sure of keeping away from detonation - intake temp will still be warm - hot, but fueling changes in the ecu will help a bit there.
If you want to run a bit more boost then you will then need to think about cooling.
I\'ll second that. I\'ve got a dyno printout for 197 bhp at the wheels, and that was before the ECU swap. Aiming to get to another rolling road soon, and would hope for about 220ish brake at the wheels with the current set-up. And believe me Stu, it\'s more than enough to er... worry Scooby drivers!
Quote from: TURBOIINUTTAHG - the cheapest way to get lower temps is to stick some ice cubes in your washer bottle and then put the windscreen washer hoses so that they spray directly onto your intercooler!! hehe wont cost you a penny! :p
fitting a front mount cant be that hard - best to look at how other people have done it and then see if you can make your own setup better!
If I can ever get the pics to Stu via MMS he may be able to upload them!
as for it not being hat hard, hmmm, no it isn\'t but it does require a lot of thought and planning!
If you run a front mount, you may have to start thinking about cooling issues with the rad, you are blocking a massive amount of area for the air to pass through to the rad!
Quote from: jetpilotIf you run a front mount, you may have to start thinking about cooling issues with the rad, you are blocking a massive amount of area for the air to pass through to the rad!
depends on a) size of FMIC and b) how far forward from the rad it is put, etc etc again it all comes down to planning.
Do you have any rad cooling issues with yours Jon? I saw the setup that Tim & Matt did on yours and I thought there was a good amount of space between the IC and Rad
Hi Mark
Yeah there was a good amount of space, but it still ran hot in my opinion, ideally i would have liked to V mount it! I got a custom rad built so not sure if that was really up to the job, would be interested to see the results you get from yours! I also think it would have been better to get a lower rated thermostat and an electric water pump, as with mine, the rad always seemed warm to touch, never to hot, so i kinda decided that the water was never being pumped around the engine quick enough.
well, looks like I\'m going to wind up replacing the FMIC with a bigger one and bigger diameter piping before I\'ve even had it on the road! GRRRRR, I hadn\'t thought about mentioning future-proofng to the lads in Dorset! If I\'m after a bigger Turbo (T70) the IC and piping won\'t be up to the task!
Quote from: jetpilotHi Mark
Yeah there was a good amount of space, but it still ran hot in my opinion, ideally i would have liked to V mount it! I got a custom rad built so not sure if that was really up to the job, would be interested to see the results you get from yours! I also think it would have been better to get a lower rated thermostat and an electric water pump, as with mine, the rad always seemed warm to touch, never to hot, so i kinda decided that the water was never being pumped around the engine quick enough.
i had a fmic on my FD and even with no stat, an electric water pump and uprated fans, it still ran hotter than i would have liked. I put the I/C flat in the bottom of he engine ay in my FC for this reason, i get the same air temps (colder with w/inj) but the stock rad and fan on my fd keep the temps a steady 85 - 87, bearing in mind that i still have the stock waer pump and stat and in it which opens at 84.
At the ring, it was 33 degrees outside and i was giving it stick, the most the temp got to was 97. As soon as i came off the track it went down to 86 again. In traffic it never goes above 86 whatever the temp outside.
Its quite easy to fit it flat aswell, as you can leave the rad, fan and cowel all in situ. you can buy the huge universal i/c on ebay for £130 which fits perfectly. :Laugh
Quote from: antnicukIts quite easy to fit it flat aswell, as you can leave the rad, fan and cowel all in situ. you can buy the huge universal i/c on ebay for £130 which fits perfectly. :Laugh
What do you mean by flat?
it sits flat like the under tray does :D
yep............
Weird, never heard of that... What\'s the damage like from s**t off the roads on it? I have to cross gravel and road crud quite often...including much horse poo.