Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 06, 2006, 08:35:47 PM

Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 06, 2006, 08:35:47 PM
Just fitted my new gauge today and wish i never had!  On the way home the car went up to 130c!  and didnt move!  and the worst thing is i think that is the limit of the gauge!  Please tell me this cannot be the case as the car runs perfectly!  Surely the car would self destruct at those temps!  worst thing is turn on the air con to get the fans on and the needle still disnt move.

Any ideas?
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: rx7veilside on July 06, 2006, 08:38:50 PM
faulty gge or sender..where have u plumbed it in and which gge are u using
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 06, 2006, 08:45:58 PM
its a cheap autogague plumbed in onto the pipe off the radiator using a thingy with a threaded thing in it to allow the sender to be installed.  my worrying thing is it did start at 40 when i started her up but next time i looked it was way up and it did show a few degrees less after i left it for a while?  surely the stock temp gague would show off before it sees 130c!
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: shaunwil on July 06, 2006, 08:50:55 PM
Is it plumbed into the top or the bottom of the radiator ???? Maybe your measuring the temp before its cooled down by the radiator ?? If its that hot i would have thought it would show hot on the naff standard gauge.

Shaun
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: rx7veilside on July 06, 2006, 09:03:42 PM
standard gge only moves just before u blow up..my guess is deff faulty gge or sender
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: oldone on July 06, 2006, 09:11:06 PM
Teach you to buy cheap aftermarket stuff......................take it off and bin it bro....I\'ve been using VDO for years (old school I know) and it is a not too expensive product but good quality...:Typing
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: gmogle on July 06, 2006, 11:08:10 PM
Have you got a Power FC ? If so and you have the commander it can be shown on there.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: nikp on July 06, 2006, 11:10:25 PM
Sounds like a cheap gauge or sender really. 130 degrees is boiling coolant! You\'d have noticed something wrong if it really was at 130: Like tons of steam coming out the bonnet.

Also, if it had really hit 130, the standard temp gauge actually starts to move off halfway at this point, so it\'d shown hot too.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: iaint on July 06, 2006, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: nikpSounds like a cheap gauge or sender really. 130 degrees is boiling coolant! You\'d have noticed something wrong if it really was at 130: Like tons of steam coming out the bonnet.

Also, if it had really hit 130, the standard temp gauge actually starts to move off halfway at this point, so it\'d shown hot too.

Might not boil at that point - depends on how much coolant is in there - a strong mix plus the operating temperature may see very high temps before boiling.

I agree though - the stock sensor would move before then - just!
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: ro284 on July 06, 2006, 11:27:49 PM
I would have thought the cooling fans should have come on if it\'s really that hot! do they? what year is it? if it\'s a 93 the Thermoswitch is rated at 108c, it is seperate from the (standard) ecu and feeds fan relay no 3 direct.
so sounds like the guage to me,
good luck Bob
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 07, 2006, 12:02:38 AM
thanks guys.  i will swap it over and hope that makes a difference!
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: gsb876 on July 07, 2006, 07:12:05 AM
Your standard rubbish gauge would move at 120oC so if that is still in the middle when showing 130oC then your new gauge is deffo way off.

130oC is bye bye seal time. :eek:
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: nikp on July 07, 2006, 08:39:52 AM
QuoteMight not boil at that point - depends on how much coolant is in there - a strong mix plus the operating temperature may see very high temps before boiling.

Well, ok. Technically, 130 degrees is the boiling point of water at the pressure it runs in the coolant system. but once you\'ve added anti-freeze, it changes.....but i\'m not sure if the boiling point goes up or down to be honest.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: ro284 on July 07, 2006, 08:44:38 AM
as i understand it the more coolant you add, the lower the boiling point will be
Bob
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: antnicuk on July 07, 2006, 08:46:19 AM
if your gauage has one wire going to it, you may need to earth the block that the sender screws into other wise the outside of the sender doesnt get well earthed.    Just hold a wire on it and attach the other end to the batterie negative and se what happens.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: iaint on July 07, 2006, 08:50:07 AM
Quote from: nikpWell, ok. Technically, 130 degrees is the boiling point of water at the pressure it runs in the coolant system. but once you\'ve added anti-freeze, it changes.....but i\'m not sure if the boiling point goes up or down to be honest.

Check the coolant info on whatever you use but they generally show the freezing and boiling points on a table at different coolant:water mixes.  The majority of them raise the boiling point of the system as well as lowering the freezing point and protecting engine components from corrosion.

If the coolant used lowers the boiling point use a different coolant - you don\'t want it boiling at 95C!!!

For example: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=ROAD&pcode=CAS4LIFE
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: clive on July 07, 2006, 09:25:11 AM
Here a question for you all,

What do they use currantly for coolant in FI cars ????
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: fro on July 07, 2006, 09:51:31 AM
I guess they\'d be constrained by safety regulations? so either water, evans npg or similar. Not ethylene glycol
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 07, 2006, 10:03:21 AM
the std gauge def stays in the middle.  Dont want to give the beast any stick now just in case!  might just remove the thing and not worry about it!  Thanks for the replys by the way!
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: iaint on July 07, 2006, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: froI guess they\'d be constrained by safety regulations? so either water, evans npg or similar. Not ethylene glycol

Nothing in teh F1 regs to indicate what fluids are allowed or not.  Plenty on materials and routing for the coolant header tanks and hoses but nowt on the nature of the coolant.  Could use anything from water to some space age goop!

interestingly a google on "formula one coolant" doesn\'t bring anythng up that discusses the contents.

The system could happily run water though because

1) It can run at much higher pressures than a production system thus raising boiling point
2) They don\'t have to worry about corrosion over numbers of years as the external bits are replaced every race and the engine only lasts for 2!

F1 isn\'t a good comparison to our cars for technology as the scope of the system is too different.  GT endurance racing (or even prototype sports) would e more realistic and useful.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: grinder on July 07, 2006, 10:34:28 AM
easy way to check ( and yes mine is in the same place but reads just fine )

remove the probe out the adaptor ( its ok water wont come out )

boil the kettle - stick water in a cup - walk to car - stick probe in cup

gauge should read about 88 - thats the EASIEST way i know to check

mine is in the same place - and on the way home last night say at a steady 87 - but thats on a FC

does the gauge drop to 0 over night ??

i have an oil temp gauge that was droppped by the better half - and thats reads about 120 which is bad - thing is - it only starts at about 80 :(

i tested this with water ( 2 probes in the cup ) - water read 88 and oil read 120

check it first before throwing it away

stu
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: checkpoint-direct.co.uk on July 07, 2006, 10:13:06 PM
it weird i went in this morning and it read 126,  after starting her up it dropped to 40 then i watched it creep back up to 130!  was wandering if i am seeing these temps would the seals have failed by now?  or am i just waiting for the worst.  STD gauge remains in the middle.
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: ro284 on July 07, 2006, 10:49:59 PM
As i said the cooling fans would be on if it was really reaching that temp!
Bob
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: grinder on July 07, 2006, 11:46:28 PM
try the hot water test :D

OR - you will like this - my gauge got stuck ... SO .............

1 cup of boiling water - one cup of cold tap water

dunk it in the hot - wait for it to get to a fixed temp - then into the cold wait for it to drop , then into the hot

eventually it settled at 0

and all this is FREE .. best way in my mind !! LOL

Stu
Title: Water Temp!!!!!
Post by: gsb876 on July 08, 2006, 02:20:08 AM
Quote from: checkpoint-direct.co.ukit weird i went in this morning and it read 126,  after starting her up it dropped to 40 then i watched it creep back up to 130!  was wandering if i am seeing these temps would the seals have failed by now?  or am i just waiting for the worst.  STD gauge remains in the middle.

Like i said if the standard gauge is in the middle then your "aftermarket" gauge is deffo faulty as the standard one moves at 120oC, so if you are seeing 130+ its not right chap :Thumbs-up

Do the Grinder tight a$$ test :eek: :Laugh