Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: Ricco_04 on June 04, 2006, 01:36:44 PM

Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 04, 2006, 01:36:44 PM
Hi All,

When I had my last MOT I found out that I still qualify for the non-cat test  :)  I am about to fit my decat downpipe and get her re-mapped but as I have the more lax requirements (3.5% & 1200) can I get away with full decat?

I have gone through some posts and found some people do pass and others don\'t? - I have read some people have had 7% Co!  :eek

If it depends on mods then all I will have is twin Apexi filters, 3" downpipe, scilenced mid pipe, Apexi GT Cat back & Apexi PFC

Thanking you in advance :)
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 04, 2006, 02:17:36 PM
Hi Ricco.

have you any information regading our UK cars not needing a CAT as I\'m probably this afternoon going to remove mine and go with a silenced midpipe and different rear silence. It needed the new exhaust for the MOT but the one I got has a midpipe included and I was a little worried about emissions.

Mines a 92 or 93. No mods, has a K&N in the std airbox but that\'s it.

If I can get the pre-cat binned and a downpipe in place it\'d be good to know that I\'m not going to fail MOT\'s as a result.

Also does anyone know what to do with the air pipe that runs into the CAT? I\'ve also heard some people on about a heat sensor there as well.

Cheers

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 04, 2006, 03:20:02 PM
All I know is that if your car is UK and pre June 1995 then there is an option to have the non cat test of 3.5%co and 1200ppm which is also just taken at idle and not the 3,000rpm fast idle test.

I have been told that the following should pass this :

Standard UK car (ie 2 cats)
Uk car with precat removed
Uk car with precat removed and main cat replaced with a hi-flow sports cat (provided all is running correctly ie not rich)

but unsure as if the full de-cat will pass?  With full decat and a remap it is effectively the same as the decat jap spec\'s with a remapped PFC so wondering on other people\'s readings?
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 04, 2006, 04:37:42 PM
Quote from: Ricco_04All I know is that if your car is UK and pre June 1995 then there is an option to have the non cat test of 3.5%co and 1200ppm which is also just taken at idle and not the 3,000rpm fast idle test.

I have been told that the following should pass this :

Standard UK car (ie 2 cats)
Uk car with precat removed
Uk car with precat removed and main cat replaced with a hi-flow sports cat (provided all is running correctly ie not rich)

but unsure as if the full de-cat will pass?  With full decat and a remap it is effectively the same as the decat jap spec\'s with a remapped PFC so wondering on other people\'s readings?

Ah so looks like I might have issues with the pre-cat in place and the main CAT removed? bugger

Hopefully will be able to sweet talk them. They pass a lot of Ferraris which apparently are a nightmare on emissions.

Guess I\'ll be needing a PFC to adjust stuff if I got te pre-cat removed also.

cheers

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: probedb on June 04, 2006, 05:09:07 PM
I think you can adjust the PFC to give it better readings and pass, I\'d speak to one of the tuners for some advice.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 04, 2006, 06:52:12 PM
Quote from: GeckoGarethAh so looks like I might have issues with the pre-cat in place and the main CAT removed? bugger

Hopefully will be able to sweet talk them. They pass a lot of Ferraris which apparently are a nightmare on emissions.

Guess I\'ll be needing a PFC to adjust stuff if I got te pre-cat removed also.

cheers

G

You still might be able to pass with just the pre-cat, not sure if anyone has ever expiremented with to find out?

Personally I would always remove the precat instead of the main cat (if you had to leave one in)  You are removing a lot of hot metal away from the engine bay too.

Im after the emissions readings from people with full decat to see what differences there are - like I say, some people pass ok, some are boarder line and some are way off the mark.  I just want to make sure because if it is boarderline then I will just leave the main cat in and have no troubles (hopefully!  :D )
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 04, 2006, 07:47:56 PM
Will keep you posted on how I go then Ricco. I\'ll be the test subject.

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Adie Moore on June 04, 2006, 08:16:05 PM
I\'m also thinking of this mod myself, but am more concerned with the loss of back pressure = boost creep and/or spikes. i have a HKS down pipe and HKS super dragger back box, apexi filters and pfc on a \'97. i\'ve read that its the waste gate that can\'t flow enugh to keep the boost pressure down, when this is done, but only read of this once. if this is the case can the pfc keep things in line or just supply more fuel so as at least prevent the mix from going a bit lean.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 04, 2006, 11:09:00 PM
The problem you have with the standard wastegate is that it is only really big enough to cover light mods - regardless of the controller you use for it.  Backpressure isin\'t an issue on turboed cars - the better flow the better IIRC?

GeckoGareth : didn\'t mean to make you the test subject but oooooh go on then :D

seriously, if anyone has there emissions results to hand then I would really appreciate them  :)
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 06, 2006, 09:53:44 PM
I don\'t suppose anyone could have a look at their last emissions and post up could they? :)
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: G@NDY on June 06, 2006, 11:44:07 PM
I have both CATs removed and mine never went near the emissions tester at the last mot, guess its just a question of where you take it ;)  :bandit
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 19, 2006, 07:29:27 PM
Hey Ricco,

Well the cat was removed and off to the MOT test with just the pre-cat.

They put in your number plate and print off a checksheet. This said that I should have a CAT :(

Thought oh dear this is a no go but kept chatting to the guy about cars and RX\'s in general. When it came to the emissions test he went through the yes/no answers on the emissions computer including stuff about was car used before a certain date. Eventually the machine kicked into a non-cat test.

My car passed easily. I\'m in Bolton and the print out is back home but I think it was something like 1.25% CO and the other thing they test HC\'s? was about a 1/4 - 1/3 of the allowed limit. So it pretty much walked it. I\'m thinking that it might even pass with a straight through downpipe in place given the current readings. If you want exact figures I could find out by giving me house mate a shout. Let me know.

This was done without the AC on as well so would imagine even lower figures with that turned on to drop the idle speed a bit. De-cat all the way I reckon. Best get saving for my pipe and a Power-FC. :)

cheers

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 19, 2006, 08:08:27 PM
Many thanks for getting back to me with that  :cheers

I have decided to go the full de-cat route  :InLove  and as I have a PFC it should be fine (I have the 3.5%co and 1,200 HC limits too  :Thumbsup! )

Thanks again for the help guys  :chat
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: dr3 on June 19, 2006, 08:34:17 PM
Just to add to your peace of mind, you will be fine as long as you have the air pump running. The extra oxygen forced into the exhaust manifold helps burn off the HC\'s as the  gas is so hot there, it also must dilute it to a certain extent to bring the ppm down.

I put an analyser on my car with a full de-cat system and ran it with and then without it on and it brought the emissions down a lot, I can\'t remember exact figures, but it brought it well within limits. Just remember blank off the pipe that goes to the centre section cat.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: vxer on June 19, 2006, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: dr3I put an analyser on my car with a full de-cat system and ran it with and then without it on and it brought the emissions down a lot, I can\'t remember exact figures, but it brought it well within limits. Just remember blank off the pipe that goes to the centre section cat.

Ah, i think that clears up my confusion! So the airpump goes to both exhaust manifold *and* cat?

Cheers, Paul.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 19, 2006, 09:02:15 PM
Quote from: dr3Just remember blank off the pipe that goes to the centre section cat.

Thanks but do you know why this needs blanking off? What would happen if it wasn\'t blocked off?

cheers

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: dr3 on June 19, 2006, 09:06:56 PM
Yep thats right, its amazing how much it does aswell.
But just remember if you are running without the air box, when you sit in traffic the hot air under the bonnet will damage the bearings in the pump, as I found out with mine, twice! So if thats the case only plug it in for the MOT or it will make a rough noise.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 19, 2006, 09:10:08 PM
I\'m a bit confused now. Am I better off unplugging the air pump so it doesn\'t run or just blocking the pipe that used to run into the cat? :S

Cheers

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: dr3 on June 19, 2006, 09:16:00 PM
Sorry mate, I\'m watching the footy at the same time, may not have been thet clear.
Block off the pipe that used to go to the centre cat, then for:
 
Normal running, just unplug the wires to it.
For the MOT, plug it in.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: dr3 on June 19, 2006, 09:18:12 PM
G.

I reckon it would just waste extra air that helps dilute the exhaust gas even further.
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 19, 2006, 10:05:08 PM
The other thing, if you have aftermarket filters the airpump makes that mooing sound so with full decat you can also remove the moo\'s!  :chat

(another benefit then!  :guinness )
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: GeckoGareth on June 20, 2006, 07:14:37 PM
Ok. Hoping I\'m not looking a complete muppet but still can\'t see exactly why it needs blocking off where it went into the old cat!?! Surely it\'s just pumping air into the atmosphere? Is this a bad thing?

Hmmm. My head hurts.

G
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: strange_days_uk on June 21, 2006, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: Ricco_04Hi All,

When I had my last MOT I found out that I still qualify for the non-cat test  :)  I am about to fit my decat downpipe and get her re-mapped but as I have the more lax requirements (3.5% & 1200) can I get away with full decat?

I have gone through some posts and found some people do pass and others don\'t? - I have read some people have had 7% Co!  :eek

If it depends on mods then all I will have is twin Apexi filters, 3" downpipe, scilenced mid pipe, Apexi GT Cat back & Apexi PFC

Thanking you in advance :)
94 Twin tub apexi twin intake apexi pfc mapped to 290 rwhp bov full decat pass first time

DO IT !!
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: dr3 on June 21, 2006, 10:48:29 AM
I\'m just presuming that it would force less air into the exhaust if it could let it out into the atmosphere, surely the more fresh air in the exhaust come MOT day the better???
Title: Advice on full decat
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 21, 2006, 01:36:42 PM
Quote from: strange_days_uk94 Twin tub apexi twin intake apexi pfc mapped to 290 rwhp bov full decat pass first time

DO IT !!

Ace! I cant wait now. It\'s now just a matter of when not if!  :D  :driving  :3gears-lh  :yes  :D  :Thumbs-up  :bandit  ;)  :Thumbsup!  :Party