Just ordered my cooling mist 150psi delux system :) hopefully be here in time for Rotorstock ordered it from a UK dealer. I will take some pics of installation when I do it
can we expect some more boost on the way then?
ay ay captain more boost, 1.6 BAR along with my new fuel system
good good, not long to go until RSIII you\'ll have to be quick in getting it fitted
the kit looks straight forward to fit, cant see me having any probs in fitting it. Here is a pic of the kit
got the same kit on mine and itis straight forward to fit comes with all instructions....the hrdest part will be to find a big enough tank to feed the dammn thing as once on it does suck alot of water...
how much that set you back?
its on a special apparently £217 delivered
thats bloody good! im after a kit myself! is it one injection point? how easy is it set up
yes its one injection nozzle but you can upgrade it to a dual stage nozzles if you require. With the kit you get to adjust at what point the water injection cuts in to a preset boost level
Pretty easy to setup from talking to a few guys who have installed their own
whats yours thoughts on the cut in point? im currently running 0.85bar want to turn it up to 1.2. what would you suggest?
well you can adjust it to any boost point, Im gonna have mine cut in at 0.7 bar.
Any lower and I reckon you would use up water pretty quickly
lol what you gonna use for your tank? rear window jets?
well you get a 2 litre tank with the kit, so I might connect the rear window wash wipe tank to the supplied tank
all in for that much!!!! ive been looking at other kits and there like £400 so good find
Do you want the link lol???
here it is
http://www.tuninguk.co.uk/single_stage_kits?b=1
thank you muchy:)
Quote from: Laeeqgot the same kit on mine and itis straight forward to fit comes with all instructions....the hrdest part will be to find a big enough tank to feed the dammn thing as once on it does suck alot of water...
how often are you filling it up if your on boost a lot?
and more importantly how do you know when it has run out? Has it got a warning indicator? I should imagine it is bad if it runs out :eek
put it this way, last year on the way back from RS i was using front washer bottle and on full boost for a bit the water ran out and then blew me engine...lol..
Now i use 5 ltr water tank in the boot just incase......... :evillaugh
Quote from: Laeeqput it this way, last year on the way back from RS i was using front washer bottle and on full boost for a bit the water ran out and then blew me engine...lol..
F**K that!
big bottle it is then ill have it on the passenger seat ta!!!!
I have the same kit. I have mine coming in at 0.7 and it uses too much water. You can actually see it come in on the dyno graph. 0-8/9 would probably be better. I emptied my 2.5 litre tank after 6 laps on the MRC track day so it wouldnt do one lap of the ring..... (gonna adjust it a little) It will depend on what size nozzle you have of course.
On the track day my intakes stay at 12 degrees all day.
The turbo 2 has headlight washers with a low level indicator on the dash, i just fitted that into the bottom of my custom tank so i know when it runs low.
1.6 bar......... good lad Blitz, chasing the 11s then......
EDIT: just noticed a slight difference, my had speed fit push connectors which work well.
Coolingmist sell a level sender for the tanks.....................
blitzboy with the dumb kit (not taking the p1ss by this phrase, just what its called) you with have to suffer for the water untill you hit your peak, You would be best to jet for that figure. You can go quite lean with water or make a nice advance in your timing.
Scott
Quote from: antnicuk1.6 bar......... good lad Blitz, chasing the 11s then......
Quote11s will be easy as my 12.3 1/4 was only done at a bar of boost. I should hit 11\'s at RSIII. Tens is my target but that will only be possible once I put new suspension and drag radials. Still trying to find out what tyres "H8 NOS" Rx7 had when he ran a 11.3.
Cheers for the advice guys, will have it coming on at 0.85 then. Plus maybe the combination of the rear washer bottle and the supplied bottle maybe not enough, it will do for the drag runs I suppose for the weekend
QuoteStill trying to find out what tyres "H8 NOS" Rx7 had when he ran a 11.3.
want me to find out i know james
QuoteStill trying to find out what tyres "H8 NOS" Rx7 had when he ran a 11.3.
Maybe you could ask Wav as he knows James well and he could teletext him :yes
I now need to see about getting my ERL 1s system plumbed in for WI and maybe the 2nd kit for water spray on the intercooler that already works really well.
Fish
apparantly the same as Brian had on his black one last year, micky thompsons or something. Chris at Reworx knows... I\'m sure you\'ll be seeing him soon.
james is running hoosirs(spellin) hope that helps
ahaaaa, will probably go for a set of Hossiers for the Jap Performace show in Oct see if I can get into the tens.
Just heard back from the uk supplier of coolingmist its touch and go if they can deliver by the weekend they awaiting a delivery of stock from the US.
Looks like I will be running race gas then for RSIII
Blitzboy... If you need or want any input on the water injection then pm me on fduk.
Scott
cheers I shall be calling on your knowledge when I get it Scott
Aquamist 2d is the best bang for the buck. We have sold tons of them and installed about 30 of them on our customers cars.
-Aaron
//www.gothamracing.com
Quick worry.
The temperature sensor is slow acting on the RX7 right. So when the water kicks in at say 0.85 bar and knocks the temp down by 10-20°C (I\'ve read that 30° is possible) then your running lean until the sensor cools enough to inform the ecu and then you get the extra fuel required.
Has anyone tried removing the plastic from around the sensor to improve its response? Or changed to a faster type?
Is it a thermocouple or thermister type?
My worry is with this kit you run lean and det on the transition. I\'d use the expensive but variable kit myself. IMHO
Jon
Quote from: Aaron@gothamAquamist 2d is the best bang for the buck. We have sold tons of them and installed about 30 of them on our customers cars.
-Aaron
//www.gothamracing.com
Is that a variable kit Aaran?
Regards,
Jon
Its no more dangerous than sitting heat soaked at the lights, then gunning it. Same thing happens - intakes drop, sensor drops slowly.
A variable WI kit wont make the sensor work any quicker!
The best solution would be to move the sensor from under the plenum to a cool location where you get a true measurement of intake temp without influence from other heat sources, but you find me a spot under our bonnets :(
Quote from: Jonathan_FQuick worry.
The temperature sensor is slow acting on the RX7 right. So when the water kicks in at say 0.85 bar and knocks the temp down by 10-20°C (I\'ve read that 30° is possible) then your running lean until the sensor cools enough to inform the ecu and then you get the extra fuel required.
Has anyone tried removing the plastic from around the sensor to improve its response? Or changed to a faster type?
Is it a thermocouple or thermister type?
My worry is with this kit you run lean and det on the transition. I\'d use the expensive but variable kit myself. IMHO
Jon
I think the 2d system is the variable kit that monitors the primary fuel injector and varies the liquid flow to that.
I am not a great fan of staged systems. They have huge limitaions. in a perfect world you would control the flow with a rev vs boost table ( ermmmm.... sounds a bit like an ecu fuel map....)
With my new set up 2 weeks ago we were out ( me and borgue ) mapping the car on a very hot day. os air temp was about 26 deg C. We stoped off for lunch at a service station and to review the logs in detail. When we hit the road again the ait had hit 55 deg C. It would have still died if i had wound it up to full boost but with a few gentle squirts the ait came down to ambiant within a mile. When we shut the car down in the car park on Lotus island the throttle body was so cold that it felt like it had been in the fridge.
Remember water is not a fuel so imho you dont wanna ingest it to the rotor housings. You want to fully atomise the water Your A:L ratio will drastically alter/ decrease when the ait drops. ( the amount is not linear ) So from day to day the amount will change just the same way as the fuel requirements change at differant temps.
Scott
Quote from: maximtaylorIts no more dangerous than sitting heat soaked at the lights, then gunning it. Same thing happens - intakes drop, sensor drops slowly.
how much fuel does the power fc pull out at high intake air temps? This is something that worries me about drag racing situations (since we\'ll all be sitting in a queue for a while beforehand at rotorstock) :2Confused
i think you will find it puts fuel in to make it safe not take it out. thats why every one pushes the car in the que
Quote from: antnicuki think you will find it puts fuel in to make it safe not take it out. thats why every one pushes the car in the que
ahh good, that makes more sense :)
power fc takes fuel out the higher the intake temp unless you change the values in the table.
J
Stock correction factors are:
Air Temp ¦ Correction factor
80C 0.957
50C 0.984
30C 1.012
10C 1.055
-10C 1.102
-30C 1.148
So, lets assume we approach traffic lights with intakes at around 35C. Correction factor around zero.
Lights take forever to change and intakes reach 60C. Your engine will be receiving around 0.97 correction, so 3% less fuel for a short while, until the air temp sensor drops again.
-3% correction works out around half an a/f correction approx, so changes a tune of 10.5:1 to around 11:1 temporarily.
Because I run a big front mount, and I know that our weather never reaches above 30C, my \'true\' intake temp never goes much above this, I have changed the 50C and 80C corrections to 1
Quote from: maximtaylorStock correction factors are:
Air Temp ¦ Correction factor
80C 0.957
50C 0.984
30C 1.012
10C 1.055
-10C 1.102
-30C 1.148
So, lets assume we approach traffic lights with intakes at around 35C. Correction factor around zero.
Lights take forever to change and intakes reach 60C. Your engine will be receiving around 0.97 correction, so 3% less fuel for a short while, until the air temp sensor drops again.
-3% correction works out around just over half an a/f correction approx, so changes a tune of 10.5:1 to around 11:1 temporarily.
Because I run a big front mount, and I know that our weather never reaches above 30C, my \'true\' intake temp never goes much above this, I have changed the 50C and 80C corrections to 1
just when you thought owning and running a rex was simple LMAO :Giggle :rolleyes:
Hahaha!!!
Theres more, it gets worse than that ;)
Quote from: Mr J.Tjust when you thought owning and running a rex was simple LMAO :Giggle :rolleyes:
go on enlighten me! i\'ve just got mine running bang on. am planning to invest in WI with bigger injectors more boost etc etc. but think i need to talk to you about things first lol
I think we\'ve contaminated this thread enough ;)
Start a new thread if you have any questions / thoughts :)
Quote from: maximtaylorI think we\'ve contaminated this thread enough ;)
Start a new thread if you have any questions / thoughts :)
LOL... :Talking1 :rollin :spank
Quote from: maximtaylorStock correction factors are:
Thanks Max, that\'s nowhere near as bad as I thought :) (and I might do the same with the correction table)
Very interesting stuff, just as i\'ve bought my WI kit for RS3.
I\'ll leave the setting up to JayDee :god :god :god :Giggle
just one last question then.......... please.
Why does it put less fuel in when the intake temps are high? commons sense says if intakes are high you are more likely to det, so more fuel would help prevent that? why does it need less then?
in ley terms please Gents........
I guess it\'s because hot air is less dense than cool air, therefore with cool air you\'ll need more fuel to attain the same a/f ratio? :2Confused
I think Rob(Fro) is correct, fueling is changed to maintain the A/F ratio. The PFC retards ignition in both high air and water temps to ward off detonation.
Snap shot from datalogit shows the amounts, don\'t think you can see/adjust on the commander though.
is this a neccissary(spelling) change? not sure what my temps are running at i usually intake at around 26-32 should i change some of the hotter temps
Quote from: FD3UKI think Rob(Fro) is correct, fueling is changed to maintain the A/F ratio. The PFC retards ignition in both high air and water temps to ward off detonation.
Snap shot from datalogit shows the amounts, don\'t think you can see/adjust on the commander though.
That correction table is not the one Max was refering to. That one is ign timing related. Try settings 2 inj Vs air temp.
Scott
QuoteThe PFC retards ignition in both high air and water temps to ward off detonation
Is that not what I said :3Confused
should i change my temps then?
LOL. i think the picture said it with out being as blunt LOL
Perhaps I should explain myself better.
As std PFC uses the inj vs temp table to takes fuel out as the temps rise to maintain the same AFR. The table I posted is for air vs timing and water temp vs timing which shows a progresive retard as they rise to protect against detonation.
Mr J T - My advise is not to change anything unless you have a good understanding why, or recieve good advice from a tuner to do so.
Quote from: maximtaylorIts no more dangerous than sitting heat soaked at the lights, then gunning it. Same thing happens - intakes drop, sensor drops slowly.
A variable WI kit wont make the sensor work any quicker!
The best solution would be to move the sensor from under the plenum to a cool location where you get a true measurement of intake temp without influence from other heat sources, but you find me a spot under our bonnets :(
I believe you are mistaken.
I am warning that the moment the water switches on the temperature of the charge drops instantly as the water vapourises (latent heat of vapourisation). The ecu will find out much later as the temperature sensor is slow acting. You then run lean for a period of time at say, 0.85barWOT. This could cause det.
At the lights the intercooler and sensor both heat soak. As you drive the intercooler gradually cools and the charge does too. The sensor cools with it and the ecu corrects the fuelling at the same time. You don\'t have the same level of fueling mismatch.
In any case most tuners will have a 15% safety factor in their MAP to accomodate these shortcomings.
A better solution would be to have a fast acting sensor.
You would expect to be avble to see the inlet charge temp fluctuate with rpm and boost as the intercooler cannot cool linearly with flow rate. You do not see this because of the sensors large time constant.
If you want serious power you need to get closer to the detonation threshhold and thats when this type of water injection system could prove dangerous.
Jon
whoohoo Jon do you realise who Max is?? do you really think Max is mistaken?
I think I leave other people to tell you....ok I give you a clue he has mapped more RX7s then you have had hot dinners :rollin
Wow this thread has gone a long way. I wonder where it will end up LOL
Scott
Quote from: sdminusWow this thread has gone a long way. I wonder where it will end up
probably going round and round in circles as usual :)
Quote from: sdminusWow this thread has gone a long way. I wonder where it will end up LOL
Scott
probably end up closed Scott lol :rollin
Scott do you think having a slow acting temp sensor would cause det? I dont think it would because the water itself would hopefully fight off det
Quote from: froprobably going round and round in circles as usual :)
LOL. lets give it a twist.... anybody got a dog LOL :Snoring
Scott
Quote from: BlitzBoyprobably end up closed Scott lol :rollin
Scott do you think having a slow acting temp sensor would cause det? I dont think it would because the water itself would hopefully fight off det
Not really. IMO if the air going in is colder than what the ecu thinks it is then its only a matter of a few seconds till it reacts. So unless you are right on the edge ( i doubt many are ) i cant see it will matter... bottom line is dont boot ya motor if the temps are crazy. I dont even tune my own car to the last 1 percent it can take so i doubt if anybody else does..
Also if the air is colder of denser i would say that possibly it would be safe anway
Scott
So Scott anything below 40 degrees say before booting it you are quite safe in having the water injection switched on?
I wouldnt bother even at 40 deg. i get worried over 35 deg C.... but im an old woman and panic LOL :rollin
I see there are a few good guys watchin this so they would know better... que max que brian
:cool
In the example I used you very often find that the sensor warms up through heat soak, not necessarily the intercooler itself. Especially so if you run a front mount intercooler.
So when you do move away from standtill, although the sensor is reading high the real air temp plummets quickly, the sensor catches up.
In both cases, the sensor is always playing catch up. More dense air than the ecu thinks is going in.
I\'ve run W/I for around two years now, and my wideband has never really had a scary lean moment as per your example. Sure it does lean a bit, but not much.
Quote from: Jonathan_FI believe you are mistaken.
I am warning that the moment the water switches on the temperature of the charge drops instantly as the water vapourises (latent heat of vapourisation). The ecu will find out much later as the temperature sensor is slow acting. You then run lean for a period of time at say, 0.85barWOT. This could cause det.
At the lights the intercooler and sensor both heat soak. As you drive the intercooler gradually cools and the charge does too. The sensor cools with it and the ecu corrects the fuelling at the same time. You don\'t have the same level of fueling mismatch.
In any case most tuners will have a 15% safety factor in their MAP to accomodate these shortcomings.
A better solution would be to have a fast acting sensor.
You would expect to be avble to see the inlet charge temp fluctuate with rpm and boost as the intercooler cannot cool linearly with flow rate. You do not see this because of the sensors large time constant.
If you want serious power you need to get closer to the detonation threshhold and thats when this type of water injection system could prove dangerous.
Jon
Quote from: Jonathan_FI
If you want serious power you need to get closer to the detonation threshhold and thats when this type of water injection system could prove dangerous.
Jon
I presume that you are either tuning back to stoich and repalcing fuel with water. In which case you could have probs.
Or you are making crazy advances in the ign timing. ( above the ceiling in which engine would normaly run)
I have the answer to all this temp business. Ditch ya intercooler and petrol and run strainght methanol.. :burnout
If you were tuning back to stoich(14.7 afr I believe) using WI, therefore say leaning out from 11.1 to 12.1 would you see the biggest increase in power as opposed to the next stage from 12.1 to 13.1, is there diminshing returns going leaner and leaner?
Quote from: sdminusI wouldnt bother even at 40 deg. i get worried over 35 deg C.... but im an old woman and panic LOL :rollin
I see there are a few good guys watchin this so they would know better... que max que brian
:cool
What I do is this. I have a v mount so my intercooler gets hot a lot quicker than a front mount does. I can sit in traffic and quicly see 50+ ait on a hot day. At those temps I don\'t boot it. I just need to get moving and my ait drop quite quick. When my ait gets to say 45deg I will plant my foot to the floor but with minimal load on the engine 1.e 1st or 2nd gear. I only need to put my foot down for literally 3-4 secs and my ait are back down to around 27deg. Then I can plant my foot down like normal and put load on the engine i.e 3rd or 4th gear.
Different people have there cars setup different, but in general you will find minimal difference in afr when water is being injected, unless you are quenching.
Yeah. i think the 0.85 L mark is the palce to go rather than leaner. unless you are using a blended fuel in which case it would alter the stoich. ie 10 % meth mixed with 90% petrol gives about 13.8 afr to 1 L
I was making more of a point than fact if that makes sense
Scott
so a good combination with a bit safty and a good power with WI 12:1 afr should be good?
I know without WI and high boost 10.8ish afr is as lean as you wanna go with Pump fuel
Quote from: BlitzBoyso a good combination with a bit safty and a good power with WI 12:1 afr should be good?
I know without WI and high boost 10.8ish afr is as lean as you wanna go with Pump fuel
I have done lots of testing over the past few months and found 12.0 afr at peak tq at 16psi of boost was ok with the correct ratio of water. I also found this to be quite quick but only a tiny amount. It didnt seem worth while to me for the extra danger.
Scott
Quote from: maximtaylorIn the example I used you very often find that the sensor warms up through heat soak, not necessarily the intercooler itself. Especially so if you run a front mount intercooler.
So when you do move away from standtill, although the sensor is reading high the real air temp plummets quickly, the sensor catches up.
In both cases, the sensor is always playing catch up. More dense air than the ecu thinks is going in.
I\'ve run W/I for around two years now, and my wideband has never really had a scary lean moment as per your example. Sure it does lean a bit, but not much.
Ok Max. Well I\'m coming from a theroetical point of view and your coming from the real world. I know enough to know that real world experience is worth ten in the bush!
Jon
Quote from: BlitzBoyso a good combination with a bit safty and a good power with WI 12:1 afr should be good?
I know without WI and high boost 10.8ish afr is as lean as you wanna go with Pump fuel
That\'s one thing I like about a dyno you may find there is no real increase from say 11.5:1 to 12.0:1 so there would be no need to run 12.0:1
Would also depend on how much water your injecting in percentage compared to fuel. Running 20% water in comparison to fuel being injected would be safer at 12.0:1 that running say 10%, as the more water being injected is the more heat being absorbed, but then everything is relative, cause then runing 20% water may cause you to encounter a lot of quenching depending on how good your ignition system is.
cool I think I will go with 11.5 afr on highboost with WI and pump fuel as a good compromise.
Hmm shall I open another can of warms, what about Race fuel (118 octane leaded) and WI?? lol
Quote from: BlitzBoycool I think I will go with 11.5 afr on highboost with WI and pump fuel as a good compromise.
Hmm shall I open another can of warms, what about Race fuel (118 octane leaded) and WI?? lol
I\'ll open up another can of worms before I go out as well then.
Octane rating RON is not what\'s important on race fuel compared to the
MON rating. You want the highet MON rating available that is what determines the limits your fuel can take before it say self combusts.
110 octane RON with 108 MON
would be better than 113 octane RON with 103 MON.
You want the highest MON rating possible.
Quote from: BlitzBoycool I think I will go with 11.5 afr on highboost with WI and pump fuel as a good compromise.
Hmm shall I open another can of warms, what about Race fuel (118 octane leaded) and WI?? lol
Oh no.................. quick lock the thread.
I reckon you will need about 4.3GPH of water at peak inj duty.. i guessed your set up. i presumed 66GPH 85% inj duty 11.8 afr and 30 deg c charge temps..
if the temp drops to 25 deg c then i would say 3.7gph
if it raises to 40 deg C then i would say 6.1 gph.
how much water do you thnk he should use brian. Would be nice to compare notes
Scott :wave
OPPPS just realised i based my calcs on 50 : 50 sorry
Hey all, great thread and seems to be more easily understandable than some previous threads on WI. Just wondering if anyone is adding anything else to their \'water\' that they are injecting? say perhaps a ratio of water and methanol?
cheers, michael.
I\'m throwing in around 10% water to fuel (300cc/min), with around 20% methanol when I can be @rsed to go to my methanol drum ;)
Because I\'m running a simple WI system, I\'ve got to watch I don\'t drown the engine when the boost comes on around 3.5k revs.
With a mapped WI controller, I\'d run more water. But its simple and it works.
But its simple and it works.
says it all........... thats my attitude
Quote from: travellinbobHey all, great thread and seems to be more easily understandable than some previous threads on WI. Just wondering if anyone is adding anything else to their \'water\' that they are injecting? say perhaps a ratio of water and methanol?
cheers, michael.
There are big gains to be had from mixing other things in. But it takes a much differant approach whilst tuning and becomes very critical. Also cant be done properly with a dumb system,
done correctly you will be struggling to keep the engine warm in stead of keeping it cool under heavy load.
There are still more and more possibilites. One which not many have been done much is nitrous and water.... they work very very well together
Scott
Quote from: Jonathan_FOk Max. Well I\'m coming from a theroetical point of view and your coming from the real world. I know enough to know that real world experience is worth ten in the bush!
Jon
Here here, I\'m forever finding that out :Hammer *lol*
I find the safe bet is to simply let the charge temp (indicated) after heat soak drop slowly over your first lap or whatever using a few punches of full throttle to get the WI kicking in a little, then once below say 35 degrees (different for every car, so choose your own value) give it some beans :burnout
Paul
Cracking thread guys... keep it up :Typing
So, assuming you can run any mix of methanol (MeOH) to water in your injection system... Balancing the benefits of the high latent heat of vapourisation of water against the lower value for MeOH with it\'s ability to act as a fuel:
i.) Is there an optimum mix to run which gives you a decent trade-off between performance and cooling/reliability?
ii.) Does the addition of the much more volatile MeOH allow you to do more interesting things with where you place the injectors?
ii.) What other materials have been tried in these systems (not sure if it would provide any major advantage due to having a very high boiling point, but what about glycol/water? Could save you a tank if you\'re willing to take a risk :eek )
Cheers,
Chris.
Hijacking the thread one more time...
The sensor is coated in plastic. Now plastic conducts very slowly. My hunch is that Mazda have done this to smooth out the input to their ecu. To stop flat spots and surges etc due to fluctuations in inlet temp..
I\'d rather have an accurate temperature reading..so I have been toying with the idea of grinding off some of this platic to improve the response. The Apexi is twice a quick as the Mazda ecu..makes sense to me. Any thoughts??
Jon
Quote from: d6277nbut what about glycol/water? Could save you a tank if you\'re willing to take a risk :eek )
Chris.
NO mate .. never use glycol in water injection. It has a very high boiling point due to its high viscocity. Its high boiling point will nearly elimate any evaporative cooling.
may also cause sever detenation and engine damage..
58 times thicker than water
Scott
Cracking thread guys... keep it up :Typing
So, assuming you can run any mix of methanol (MeOH) to water in your injection system... Balancing the benefits of the high latent heat of vapourisation of water against the lower value for MeOH with it\'s ability to act as a fuel:
i.) Is there an optimum mix to run which gives you a decent trade-off between performance and cooling/reliability?
Yes and No depending who you talk to.
ii.) Does the addition of the much more volatile MeOH allow you to do more interesting things with where you place the injectors?
Not really that interesting but will allow you to add as a fuel rather than combustion coolant
ii.) What other materials have been tried in these systems (not sure if it would provide any major advantage due to having a very high boiling point, but what about glycol/water? Could save you a tank if you\'re willing to take a risk :eek )
A few but they will remain a secret for now. Being playing expensive games which others are not prepared to do.
Have fun. Scott
I was interested to read that a lot of people are using water mixed with denatured alcohol (methylated spirits, ethanol basically). It seems that the shurflow pumps are safe with this though the aquamist systems are only safe with up to 5% ethanol.
Has anyone tried it? It\'s certainly easier to get hold of than methanol
Just looked at this thread and saw a weird number combination, 88 replies with 888 views, in China having eights is a lucky number, therefore I will be running 8 second quarters by August lol
back to the thread. So whats the advantage running Methanol or Ethanol with WI, more power pontential ?
I am sure someone posted up that they were putting windscreen de-icer into their WI. Or was that me believing everything I read again...?
yeah I used diluted windscreen washer fluid over the winter (methanol based) to stop it freezing.
The only downside is the detergent can apparently clog the nozzle with really prolonged use :(
The reason the auamist stuff is not alch rated is because they started out in WRC and blended fuels are banned, so they only developed water injection.
I wouldnt use windscreen washer fluid it has nasty chemicals in. The goverment has tightened up on methanol sales now due to the bio diesel thing so model shops wont sell it to you anymore.
I had to go through a crb style check to get my chemicals.
The advantage of ethanol and methanol is purly down to the fact they are fuels.
Methanol has huge anti knock propeties. In fact try and make it ignite via compression. It wont but will pre ignite.
As i said there are issues with using alch which will screw your tuning up if you are not careful.
Scott
fro why do you use wi over the winter. at less than 25 deg C the water will struggle to atomise at all.
Here is a piece of referance data for you
Ti Mass Mass Te dT Temp O2 O2 O2 H2O A:L
°C H2O Meth °C ° Frac Dil Cool Final VP Ratio
--- ----- ----- --- --- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -------
0 0.00 0.00 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.000 1.000 0.59 0.0:1
25 0.12 0.00 22 -3 0.991 0.998 1.008 1.006 2.65 854.1:1
Ti = Temperature of input air in °C.
Mass H2O = Optimized ideal mass of water which produces
partial pressure == vapor pressure @ Te. This is
the maximum amount of water that can be vaporized;
any more will be liquid.
Mass Meth = Mass of methanol injected in solution with water.
Te = Equilibrium temperature of evaporated mix in °C.
dT = Change in temperature in °.
Temp Frac = Relative change in input air temperature.
O2 Dil = Concentration due to dilution with water vapor.
O2 Cool = Consequent concentration of O2 due to cooling.
O2 Final = Final concentration of O2 from both factors.
This is the important column, as it tells us
the relative intercooling effect of vaporizing
water injected into the intake tract.
H2O VP = Vapor pressure of H2O at Te.
A:L Ratio = Mass ratio of air to liquid.
Scott
Quote from: sdminusThe goverment has tightened up on methanol sales now due to the bio diesel thing so model shops wont sell it to you anymore.
ahh so that\'s why they won\'t sell it over the counter anymore :(
I asked on the waterinjection.info forum before last winter if screenwash was suitable and the general consenus was yes (apart from the long term effects with the detergent possibly blocking the nozzle).. as long as it was methanol based. What other chemicals do they put in it? :2Confused
great thread, a lot of useful info in here!
Quote from: sdminusfro why do you use wi over the winter. at less than 25 deg C the water will struggle to atomise at all.
my car was being mapped late last year, I wanted water for the mapping but didn\'t really want to freeze water in my expensive uk rear washer bottle ;)