Hi everyone, just looking at the site and its really helpful and informative.#
A question for you though, is there anyone out there that totally rebuilds the RX7 (1994) 13B twin turbo rotary engines in their spare time? i am looking for a cheap solution out of this as i am only a student. It is kind of my project car ready for when i leave uni, therefore have a year to play around with it!
Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys
Ant
hey dude and welcome to the club.
I understand the whole lack of cash student thing but to be honest in the long run paying for some like re:worx or RX Motors would save you in the long run. Reason for why if someone (not a garage, or lack of experience with rotary) builds it and fails you have paid for all the parts poss some cash labour time as a thank you you have nothing to fall back on.... if it dies you have to pay to do it again.... however if you get a \'proper\' builder to do the job you have much less chance of it letting go and if it does then the warrenty, in most cases, is there as a safe guard against workmanship.
There are members on here who have done there own engines and are running fine (as far as i am aware).
Good luck with it buddy
You can buy rebuild dvd\'s that show you how to rebuild the engine.It is still gonna cost around £1500 though even if you do it yourself. I have just sold a rebuild dvd on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210000133420&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&rd=1
If you want more info mate, drop me an email at robbie.bezzaford@gmail.com
i am watching your spoiler on ebay actually! it looks lush! what is your buy it now on it?
Is a rotary engine really easy to strip down and re build? i wouldnt mind having a go at it myself, that way it would be more a project for me, but im just worried that i will get it all wrong. it doesnt start anymore, or is very hesitant! god only knows what wrong with it, ive only had it for about 4 days! managed to drive it back from London tho, so could have been worse!
i understand the concept of getting someone professional to do it under warranty, and will probably have to go down that road, just thought it would be more fun to undergo the repairs myself as a bit of a learning curve so i could get stuck into it under the guidance of a professional! lol. that way if it goes again, i can maybe keep doing the repairs myself instead of paying harsh garage fees!
Also, what could i do when rebuilding the engine to give it more horsepower? is porting and polishing cheap and easy?
Thanks
From what i have read, it is just the same as taking the engine out of a normal car, but dont forget that these rotarys only have 3 main moving parts, so it is gonna be much easier to strip and rebuild. With the guidance of a professional dvd/video, and some decent tools anyone can do it. It just a case of wether your bollocks are big enough :Laugh Just have a go yourself and do a high quality job. A few folks on here have done it themselves. It is definitly worth getting the parts checked by a pro to see if they are re- usable. Are you sure it needs rebuilding though?? Get it compression tested and that will tell you if a tip has gone or not. You can compression test it yourself with a regular tester, but there are a few trick you need to do. Do a search of the forum and get more info. The search button is your friend :god
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23880&highlight=rebuild+thread
true, i might just give it a go myself, what is the worst that could happen!? its already f**ked! lol. it isnt running anywhere near fast, think it could only be running on one rotor, and it doesnt start at all at the moment! the coolant light and beeping is always on, topped it up with coolant but didnt do any good at all. no idea\'s but im guessing a good re build is just what it needs!
with these engines, even a slight overheat will **** them up, was the add coolant light/buzzer on when you drove from london? If it has over heated, the price starts to go up quite quickly for new parts such as rotor housings,endplates, maybe more. How did it go on the motorway from london?
to be fair it went fine all the way home, no dramatics. it did like to stall alot tho when stopping and starting, but the coolant light wasnt on at all, temp seemed quite steady at about half way. it hasnt been driven far at all with the coolant light on, but its even on when you have just started the engine up from cold! very wierd! which is why i wasnt too bothered about driving it as i knew it wasnt likely to be hot! faulty sensor maybe?!
My best advice would be to switch the engine off as soon as you hear the add coolant buzzer/light. I reckon you have a leak on the engine..pin hole in a pipe/corroded pipe etc..easy fix but also you could posibbly have an internal leak which is not good news. All i can say for now is add some water, start it up,let it run for 5 mins,switch it off and leave it overnight,next morning check the coolant level in the middle cap ,take the spark plugs out without starting it and see if they are wet with water. If they are, then you have a coolant seal failure which means rebuild
i will try that on my next day off and see what happens. i think its about time (67,000miles) for a re build anyway. all fun tho! are your dvd\'s copied or originals?
lol..original mate. It cost me over £50 and i did create a back up copy so there is no point in keeping the original.Somene was selling copies a few months ago on ebay, but not seen them since. He prob got arrested or fined :evillaugh
oh dear, lol. i might try limewire or something and see whether i can source a copy from somewhere. always worth a go i spose! ur up late anyway, no work 2morow?
im full time unemployed at the mo :Giggle just had a quick blast on bf2. Trouble is when unemployed, your sleeping pattern reverses :Snoring
lol, true. i cant say much i spose, but i know im knackered now, so gonna head to bed me thinks! cheers for your help tho :-)
no probs mate..most folks on here will fall over to help each other
you could be lucky and it end up costing you about a grand to fix doing it yourself, but on the other hand you could end up with an engine like mine and end up spending £2000 on the bits you require.
definaely worth getting your parts checked over though as said
I plan on stripping it myself and getting someone to check the parts and if I have the cash to do some porting for me. It\'s more fun doing it yourself and you\'ll learn about the engine that way as well, just make sure you\'re patient and don\'t rush anything. Think I need to buy a heater for the garage this winter so I can work on mine :)
yeah i was thinking the same, i think it would be interesting to do it myself too (And hopefully save me some money as well)! lol. Althought there is a re built engine on ebay at the mo which will work out cheaper to buy probably!?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4639583274&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
pushing out 7.5bar, dont know whether that is good or not
Quote from: antrosseryeah i was thinking the same, i think it would be interesting to do it myself too (And hopefully save me some money as well)! lol. Althought there is a re built engine on ebay at the mo which will work out cheaper to buy probably!?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4639583274&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
pushing out 7.5bar, dont know whether that is good or not
That ebay engine looks interesting, although note that with the tool he shows in the pictures measuring the pressure, will only show the highest compression beat for each chamber. You really need 6 readings to be totally sure, like:
front: 7.5 7.5 7.5
rear: 7.5 7.5 7.5
I\'m not saying that this engine is dodgy, its just that there is a specialised tool to read the compression more fully.
Btw, 7.5 BAR on all beats for both chambers is very good.
Cheers, Paul.
sounds like they may be trying to pull a fast one then. you might as well spend more money and get your own done, therefore you know its been done properly...well would hope anyway!
so is there anyone on here that likes to re build their own engines?
Also try and get the workshop manuals for the rex\', i\'m still learning them, ready for doing pretty much the same as you.
Good Luck
Are you a novice to all of this as well?
Yup, looking to buy an fd for about £3k, then rebuild it when it needs it. IMO even if you buy one for £6k, (present co excepted), it\'ll need a re-build.
I\'ve built 4-pot race engines so know my general engine stuff, but the rotary is a whole other deal, but after digesting the manual it actually looks pretty simple as long as it hasn\'t been really overheated.
Quote from: antrossersounds like they may be trying to pull a fast one then.
Well, i wouldn\'t go that far... Maybe they just don\'t realise?
Another thing you should remember with buying an engine is that you have to pay about £900 to get it fitted professionally. Unless you wanna do that yourself, that is...
Ta, Paul.
I\'m currently doing a home rebuild myself, and it\'s still costing £1700 just to get the engine built (Ok, £300 of that includes porting work)
That will only get my engine rebuilt too: My turbos have too much play in, so am upgrading to single turbo. There\'s more cost involved in that too!
possibly they didnt realise. i think i may buy one of these dvd\'s that tells you everything about how to rebuild them and walk through the steps myself. i think it would be an interesting learning curve for me. im just worried about gettin the engine out and disconnecting it from the gearbox etc...
all fun though i guess. if everything goes t*ts up then i can always just get someone to finish it off! :flamed
wow, im looking at a master rebuild kit on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Rebuild-Kit-for-93-95-Rotary-Engine-Rx7-REW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQitemZ4638889451QQtcZphoto) for $1200, which is roughly around £700 isnt it? hopefully i wont need to get new rotar housings too (although i wouldnt even know if i did need them!). i might purchase a new water pump etc. at the same time as it will all be out. im not even sure of the condition of the turbo\'s which will probably need looking into as well. so much work, so hopefully get cracking with it this summer!
althought someone said they may be able to do it for me for £800, so may just leave it in their hands! i need to get mine ported and polished too as well in order to increase the bhp a bit as well. what does this actually do? i dont understand how it works.
also, why does putting a single turbo on it better than having two?
Well, i have to have 2 new rotor housings, and the front plate too. That swallows up £800 alone. Then the prting is £300 (Opens up the inlet and exhaust ports for better flowing of the gasses = more power).
A single turbo means ditching the complicated twins, that are prone to boosting issues. And going for a bigger single one that can compress more air than both the singles together. So, you get more power, and a more simple design. The downside being a bit more lag - but with modern turbos, it\'s not such an issue.
Talk to someone at WGT and Re-Worx about seals, they will supply them, and i\'d trust them more than a seller on ebay.
MMMM this day and age you get what you pay for.
If you want to do it on the Cheap //www.rotaryresources.com does some good Rebuild kits.
But if your Buget streches you are always going to be better using Mazda OE seals with 2pc Rx8 Apex\'s but you\'ll be paying more if the best place for OE stuff is //www.rxmotors.co.uk
i wonder if there is anyone out there that remake the rotar housings at a cheaper price. its only a bit of forged metal at the end of the day so how expensive can it be!? lol. ill keep my eyes open and see if there are any going cheaply somewhere.
Also thats Atkins on E-bay, there quite good and can be Trusted. I\'ve bought stuff from them before.
I\'m just going off the Viton oil control rings at the moment, i\'ve recently rebuilt an Engine thats had them fitted and the car has always burnt quite alot of oil, when i pulled it apart theres Burnt oil stains round the outer oil control ring (like its not sealing properly) and all the steel rings fell out.
hmmm, so i take it spending £650 for the master kit with those Viton oil rings is not going to be worth the money?
how hard did you find taking out your engine, rebuilding it and then putting it all back together? im scared of disconnecting the gearbox and oil coolant pipes the most. dont know why. ive never done anything like this before with any engines, so its all new territory. hopefully this engine is easier to work on than the others though :-/
Quote from: antrosserhmmm, so i take it spending £650 for the master kit with those Viton oil rings is not going to be worth the money?
how hard did you find taking out your engine, rebuilding it and then putting it all back together? im scared of disconnecting the gearbox and oil coolant pipes the most. dont know why. ive never done anything like this before with any engines, so its all new territory. hopefully this engine is easier to work on than the others though :-/
Thats the Easy bit, When you take the rats nest of the engine Take LOTS!!! of pics and find the Vac pipe diagram.
Quote from: antrosserhmmm, so i take it spending £650 for the master kit with those Viton oil rings is not going to be worth the money?
how hard did you find taking out your engine, rebuilding it and then putting it all back together? im scared of disconnecting the gearbox and oil coolant pipes the most. dont know why. ive never done anything like this before with any engines, so its all new territory. hopefully this engine is easier to work on than the others though :-/
Just ask for them to be taken out and buy Mazda ones. There only about £20 for a set.
sounds easy enough. there are two kits on that atkins website:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Rebuild-Kit-Rotary-Engine-N-A-13B-Rx7-Rx-7_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQitemZ4638631331QQtcZphoto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Rebuild-Kit-for-93-95-Rotary-Engine-Rx7-REW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQitemZ4638889451QQtcZphoto
i dont know the difference except one is dearer for less parts!?! im probably just being thick though! lol
Quote from: antrosseri wonder if there is anyone out there that remake the rotar housings at a cheaper price. its only a bit of forged metal at the end of the day so how expensive can it be!? lol. ill keep my eyes open and see if there are any going cheaply somewhere.
Wow, I doubt it bud. The side housings need to be absolutley flat. Plus Mazda put a hard wearing coating on it.
More likely needing replacement are the Aluminium Rotor housing ( the bit that the Apex seal runs in). These are coated with a sort of a chrome layer where the Apex seal runs.
I dont think its as simple as it seems at first.
Also, I dont think the parts are that expensive when you consider how much technology goes into them, or when you compare prices of other parts on the FD. Try pricing the drivers door little compartment with flap ! THATS expensive !
Quote from: antrossersounds easy enough. there are two kits on that atkins website:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Rebuild-Kit-Rotary-Engine-N-A-13B-Rx7-Rx-7_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQitemZ4638631331QQtcZphoto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Rebuild-Kit-for-93-95-Rotary-Engine-Rx7-REW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQitemZ4638889451QQtcZphoto
i dont know the difference except one is dearer for less parts!?! im probably just being thick though! lol
There is few, If its for an FD i belive its the Bottom one as the Top ones for a NA.
lol, i need one of those flap things too as mine is all scratched! looks like i might have got myself in a lot deeper than i had originally thought! its gonna cost some money in the long run, but will hopefully be worth it!
ah right, well that will be useful to know instead of me going out and buying the wrong one! lol. thats the kind of thing i would do! take apart the engine then realise nothing fits! hehe
Quote from: antrosseri wonder if there is anyone out there that remake the rotar housings at a cheaper price. its only a bit of forged metal at the end of the day so how expensive can it be!? lol. ill keep my eyes open and see if there are any going cheaply somewhere.
:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin
Your best off talking very Nicly to :god Tim at Rxmotors and see if he has any Good second hand ones for sale.
Quote from: antrosserlol, i need one of those flap things too as mine is all scratched!
LOL, That the Technical term :)
Quote from: antrosserah right, well that will be useful to know instead of me going out and buying the wrong one! lol. thats the kind of thing i would do! take apart the engine then realise nothing fits! hehe
LOL Just find out what model your car is i.e. -86 = FB, 86-92 = FC, 93- FD
If its a 93- you don\'t have to worrie about the NA (Normaly Asprated or Not Turbo) bit
Then ask before you send your money if it for a Fb,Fc or FD??? Job done.
sorted, from that description above, im pretty sure mine is an FD then as its a 94 model 13B twin turbo engine. so hopefully this seal kit should do the trick! it all looks really complicated, but fun at the same time!
PS i thought that was the technical term for it!? hehe. its a flappy thingy...that costs loads! i might try and source a new interior for mine as it is a bit worn.
Mine has the bins in the back, could i still get the seats to fit in there easily?
you can rebuild a 13b yourself with all new apex seals corner and side seals, water rings and oil rings for peanuts man, dont be fooled by the mystical fear of the rotary!!!!!
worse case scenario on an engine thats lost compresion on 1 rotor is a new housing or second hand one and maybe a rotor, second hand 200quid for both.
look for parts on-
atkins -for apex seals, side and corner seals
rotary resources -for all oil seals water seals (o ring kit)
ive bought 3mm seals side seals solid corner seals and all new springs, oil control rings, 1 rotor housing and the motor stands me at less than 500 quid and its ready to build.
its idiot proof if you get a rebuild video and take your time mate
inspection of parts and tolerances is the most important part.
cool, i will give that a go! im actually looking foward to doing it! not looking forward to taking the engine out tho!
ive seen an ebay site called atkins and he\'s doing a master rebuild kit for about £650. i think one of my rotars is ****ed too, so will prob have to purchase one of those me thinks. is it easy to tell if a rotar is not working properly or at all? will there be visible signs?
check the apex slot width with a 2mm tip pushed in each groove with feeler gauges, you should not get more than .006" down the side of the tip on any groove, check the bore size for corner seal with vernier calipers (internal).
the side plates are checked with either a base clock or a dial test indicator with a good flat base.
If you rebuild your own you will save a fortune, dont listen to people who say take it to a specialist, just have a go and take your time.
wow, i that sounds very technical! lol. i might just buy them to be on the safe side! hehe...or purchase some vernier calipers!
I think i would save alot too and its an experience well worth trying! if it fails then i will take it to the specialists, but no harm in trying in the mean time! might take it to them anyway just to have a quick look for signs of wear that way i will know what will need replacing.
Ive got a year to do the project as i wont be driving it til next summer so there is no rush for me. i think its going to be a summer project for me!
Quote from: antrosseri thought that was the technical term for it!? hehe. its a flappy thingy...that costs loads!
Take a pic of it :)
Quote from: stuart wizycheck the apex slot width with a 2mm tip pushed in each groove with feeler gauges, you should not get more than .006" down the side of the tip on any groove, check the bore size for corner seal with vernier calipers (internal).
the side plates are checked with either a base clock or a dial test indicator with a good flat base.
If you rebuild your own you will save a fortune, dont listen to people who say take it to a specialist, just have a go and take your time.
I think if hes lost an apex its going to be a bit more ovious than that :)
Do listen to people that say take your engine Bit to Rx man!! If your not too clued up there is alot that could be missed and for an hours labour cost will save you £600 in Gaskets!! if you get where i\'m coming from. If you have done all your Home work and have a Proper engineers table etc to make sure the plates are not warped as well as worn then you\'ll be half way there and could do it yourself.
blond moment here....what s an apex? lol
maybe a specialist might be better for me! hehe
tim rx motors is the man for housings and rotors,
get the rebuild video and watch it a few times before asking to many questions or you will get confused by different answers of people.
i think i may have sourced one so when i get it, i will watch it a few times to get myself to grips with the beast! lol. i want to know what sort of cheap mods i can do to it as well while the engine is out. i think i may get it ported and polished, but not sure what else is available!?
grizly , i meant dont listen to people who say take the motor for the rebuild to a specialist,
Ive taken housings to pips and asked for advice.
are they quite good at giving free advice? i dont suppose you know of any rotar specialists in my area do you?
Quote from: antrosserblond moment here....what s an apex? lol
maybe a specialist might be better for me! hehe
Don\'t take this the wrong way but i think ytou need to do a bit of reading up, Maybe old threads or a Trip to the US site (Nopistons.com) and find out exactly what your letting your self in for.
I\'m on about my 9-10\'th engine rebuild now so its not realy as bad a prospect but when you take the Upper inlet of an Fd you\'ll S**t your self. If your not prepaired you may get cold feet at that point. So do your Reading :)
Engine its self is not hard, Bit expencive but not hard...
Bits, I\'d say if you don\'t realy know what your looking at Buy mazda Genuine parts from Tim at Rxmotors. Also ring him or even better take a trip to see him hes a real helpfull guy but bussy!! The Rx world is a Place where there is a few people that have been doing it years and know all the tricks and whats more important what not to do!!
Quote from: stuart wizygrizly , i meant dont listen to people who say take the motor for the rebuild to a specialist,
Ive taken housings to pips and asked for advice.
I think for a Newbie to the Rx engine world its the only way to get it right.
i think that is a very good idea! ive only just got into this so am trying to do all the research i can!
how does he know hes lost an apex seal??
sounds like the motors just lost compresion to me.
Ive stripped 2 fcs and an fd and all where none runners, the apex seals wear out and wont push hard enough against the housing because theyve worn down that much, thus no compresion.
on all 3 motors the rotors have been within tolerance, the housings where worn but the rotors have been reused.
most high mileage none runners just loose compresion and dont throw a tip grizly
Quote from: stuart wizyhow does he know hes lost an apex seal??
sounds like the motors just lost compresion to me.
Ive stripped 2 fcs and an fd and all where none runners, the apex seals wear out and wont push hard enough against the housing because theyve worn down that much, thus no compresion.
on all 3 motors the rotors have been within tolerance, the housings where worn but the rotors have been reused.
most high mileage none runners just loose compresion and dont throw a tip grizly
LOL how do you loose Compresion without wear? Most people don\'t rebuild unless it not running right not just low hp
oops im sorry guys. didnt mean to start an arguement or anything!! all your help is much appreciated tho :-)
This may sound soft but has your Engine failed or does it still run?
it hasnt failed, although it is difficult to start now! maybe the oil seals failed and drowned a rotar!? when i drove it 140 mile back from london it wasnt too bad, no where near the performance is should be tho! very slow i thought. so compression sounds like it could be a problem, but i think it was only running on one rotar. only my amateur opinion though as a am new to this
Ok, when its idleing does it sound like its got a missfire?
Typical of me Jump to conclusions......
To discribe a Typical Apex seal Failure, Car runs but Misses on Idle, Drinks LOT!! of fuel, Lacks Power, White/Blue smoke, Hard to start (gets progresivly harder until it wont).
The low Compression cars i\'ve worked on usaly just Use alot of Fuel and lack power
it sounds as though it does miss a bit, hence nearly cutting out, but usually manages just to chug along. it does like to stall though. i havent started it in days as it doesnt want to! the coolant light is always on and beeping at me as well. i drove it home from london without a problem though or any overheating, only a recent problem. it hasnt been run far when the coolant light is on, but even from cold it is still on, so im thinking it might be a dodgy sensor or something like that...maybe thermostat?
sounds like this could be the problem then! there is smoke, but looks more black to me!? wierd!
and yes, drank £40 fuel coming back from London! but then again im used to driving an economical diesel, so that would be a shock to anyone! lol
Sure fire way of testing is Take the EGI fuel out, Remove the Rear top spark Plug then turn it over and listen to the noise it makes, It should be Even Pssssh Noises. then refit the plug and take the Ft top one out and turn it over, it should sound the same as the Rear.
If there is no noise comeing from one or a big gap between the Pssh noises you\'ve lost a seal. if they both sound the same and are quite Loud it could be somthing else.
Quote from: antrosserand yes, drank £40 fuel coming back from London! but then again im used to driving an economical diesel, so that would be a shock to anyone! lol
LOL, I used £40 going to work in 3 days (10 miles round trip) :)
OMG really?! i may stick to the diesel then! lol.
I\'ll give that test a go and see what happens. i will get back to you on the result of that. unfortunately wont be for a few days as im in the middle of exams :-( so its all work and no play!
Thanks guys for all your helping tips etc! you are all legends!
Good luck!!
i think this video will help a lot on how the rotary engine works. If the video fails to play properley at first, just give it a few minuits to allow it to stream and it should play fine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oGrD7FTFLJc
that was such a good vid! looking at that seemed to make the rebuild look easy! not really alot of moving parts. the only thing are those tips that need replacing due to wear! other than that, looks ok! gonna try starting it 2morow, just to strip everything out the way, ready for the engine removal.
Your spoiler is up to about £180 now so bit out of my range unfortunately! doh. lush tho!
QuoteYour best off talking very Nicly to Tim at Rxmotors and see if he has any Good second hand ones for sale.
He doesn\'t. I\'ve asked! :( Brand new ones for me then!
I\'d begin to worry by the fact he says the coolant light is on, and the buzzer is sounding. He mentions that it hasn\'t overheated, but if he doesn\'t know much about these cars, he making be basing that fact on the standard temp gauge. It\'s possible he has fried his engine.
i dont think as i have never run it for long when the engine has had the coolant light on. It should take some time to fry the engine i would have thought. it came on first of all when i was on a short journey from cold therefore wouldnt have thought it would have got hot in that time.
Since im taking the engine out soon, what should i look for for signs of overheating?
Quote from: antrosseri dont think as i have never run it for long when the engine has had the coolant light on. It should take some time to fry the engine i would have thought. it came on first of all when i was on a short journey from cold therefore wouldnt have thought it would have got hot in that time.
Since im taking the engine out soon, what should i look for for signs of overheating?
The trouble is, because the engine is alu, if it overheats it\'ll warp the block = game over.
IIRC if the coolant light comes on, you should stop immediately and sort it out.
Ta, Paul.
QuoteIIRC if the coolant light comes on, you should stop immediately and sort it out
Thats by far the safest and cheapest (In the long run) thing to do. As said, some of the engine parts are alluminium, and will therefore warp when overheated - and therefore junk. A new rotor housing is £300! :o (I know - i have to get 2 of them!)
Quote from: Grizzlyits not realy as bad a prospect but when you take the Upper inlet of an Fd you\'ll S**t your self.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
So true!!
In my amateur opinion the water seals sound like there on there way out rather than the apex seals, but i guess we\'ll find out soon.
If the water seals are on their way out, you\'ll be constantly losing water. Eventually it\'ll start spitting out hot coolant out of the expansion tank when it\'s hot, and after a while it\'ll get harder to start when it\'s hot. Sometimes it may also start on just one rotor due to water being inside.
im not sure about that. it doesnt turn on at all at the mo! havent tried for a while tho, might give it another go in a sec. might just have been a bit flooded yesterday...and they hate starting when they\'ve been flooded! im going to take the spark plugs out and see what kind of movement there is inside or whether there is any sign of liquid in there
Quote from: antrosserim not sure about that. it doesnt turn on at all at the mo! havent tried for a while tho, might give it another go in a sec. might just have been a bit flooded yesterday...and they hate starting when they\'ve been flooded! im going to take the spark plugs out and see what kind of movement there is inside or whether there is any sign of liquid in there
IMPORTANT!!
You may have a poor spark. (I had this, thought the engine was scrap)
Remove all four plugs(clean and dry them on the gas hob in the kitchen) and connect them to their leads, clip them together with jump leads (two in each jaw) and earth the leads (strut brace bolts)
Crank the engine.
Each plug should have a fat blue spark.
If the spark is yellow or looks small/internal to the spark gap then the plugs or leads or coils will need changing. Look for missing sparks (skipping).
A poor spark can imitate low compression. The car will run on the trailing plugs badly, or without the trailing plugs with less power.
This procedure will clear all the oil/fuel from your engine too.
Should start straight up after.
The buzzing is low water level. The sender is beneath the fill cap in the engine. If the thermostat is not opening the engine will overheat in the block, boil and lose coolant into the expansion tank causing the light to come on.
Remove the thermostat and check it opens in boiling water on the hob. I believe the engine needs the thermostat to heat up properly so you must replace it before driving the car. You can heat it on the spot though (the rad is so large is will cool the engine so your permanantly cold when driving). Ensure the antifreeze mix is good also as this raises the boiling point.
Good luck
Jon
Does the coolent light come on all the Time or has it been flicking on and off?
I\'ve first hand seen an Rx engine die from Overheating when my Fan belt snaped on my T2 going down the motorway, belive me if you\'ve overheated it you\'ll know!! it lights up like a christmas tree and when you turn it off you can here the Oil Boiling in the Sump. But the Most ovious Sign is the amount of presure in the sytem as soon as you start it from cold.
The thing is i\'ve seen a few Dead Coolant seal engines and they are very mild symptoms compared to an Apex going. A coolant problem would cause bad starting etc but once you\'ve got it running they usaly run quite well.
The water Buzzer/Light could be as simple as a bad Coolant cap.
The thing is with out having it Comp tested its a Guessing game, it could be a Dodgy map sencer or faulty EMS ???
yeah, i was hoping for that in the best case scenario! i dont want it to be anything expensive!
Thanks for that info Jon, its interesting to find out how to test for faults etc.. if it is just the spark plugs causing the bad running and not wanting to start up then i shall be laughing! but at 67000miles, i am expecting to have to do it soon anyway :-( but least i shall be able to drive it in the meantime!
Quote from: antrosseryeah, i was hoping for that in the best case scenario! i dont want it to be anything expensive!
Thanks for that info Jon, its interesting to find out how to test for faults etc.. if it is just the spark plugs causing the bad running and not wanting to start up then i shall be laughing! but at 67000miles, i am expecting to have to do it soon anyway :-( but least i shall be able to drive it in the meantime!
If its not been rebuilt before then yes, low compression due to worn apex seals is likely. This will cause it to foul its plus as well (low compression=low combustion temps=carbon fouling).
Please let us know how you get on.
Jon
If your taking the plugs out try this!!
Take the EGI fuel out, Remove the Rear top spark Plug then turn it over and listen to the noise it makes, It should be Even Pssssh Noises. then refit the plug and take the Ft top one out and turn it over, it should sound the same as the Rear.
It sounds harch but if its droped an Apex you are wasting your time trying to find a fault thats not there. If it passes that test then look at other things. Its easy to do.
what is the EGI fuel grizzly? :-o
Yeh it will stop it Flooding more while you turn it over.
Rotarys are funny, If the engine gets too much fuel in the Rotor Baths it will wet the Plugs every time the Apex\'s cross the Plugs. So the best way of stopping this is to Turn off the Fuel injectors or Cut the Fuel which is what the EGI fues Does.
Its common to take the EGI fues out + the Plugs and crank the engine for a few minutes to help clear exess Fuel when a Motors Flooded..
How would i go about taking it out?
The EGI fuse???
Thats in a Small fuse box on the Passenger inner wing (Nr the Battery) it has EGI, Head etc stamped on it. The Fuse is quite big!!
ah i see, i was just looking at that! has it got a cap on by any chance, you take that off, and unscrew it clockwise? i was going to ask someone what that was for! lol. i had no idea where that fuse was to take it out! the spark plugs are quite buried, so i will need to dismantle a few things sometime in order to get to it me thinks. possibly a job for 2morow! so long as its not ****ing it down again! :-(
The Fuse is pink if my memory serves correctly??
The Plugs can be got at without removing stuff but if your finding it Difficult you can take off the Intake elbow. Basicly the Long Black or Silver Plastic Pipe that goes from the Intercooler to the pasenger side of the engine. Its held on with 4x 12mm nuts and the Rubber hoes at the other end. Be carfull you don\'t loose the rubber seal or damage the Plastic valve thats fastened to the bottom two Nuts..
yeah, i thought i may need to disconnect that to get to them properly.
Ive got my RX7 on ebay at the mo if u fancy checking it out:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4640140641&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
Either way its going to be a good project for me..or someone else!
Nice, An R2 like mine :)
how can you tell it is an R2!? you really know your stuff! RX7\'s are all new to me!
Its got Box\'s in the Back Ie. a Two seater and no Sunroof. :)
LOL as i say Like mine ;)
i wonder if you can take the boxes out and put the seats there again! makes it cheaper to insure! lol
LOL i\'m sure there is people on here that would swap seats for Box\'s but if i was you i\'d keep them (the rear seats are realy small and unusable)
you can put a lot more stuff in the rear seats than what you can in the bins, plus the seats are ok for slim kids upto about 14 years old, or your shopping. Im a bit confused..you have become a member this month on this forum, you said you have just bought this rx7 from london, but your selling it on ebay??
yeah very true. I cant be arsed with the hassle either! lol. laziness prevails every time!
yeah. ive only just joined, and have had the rx7 for a few days now. the only reason i put it on ebay was because it was a free listing weekend so i thought i would give it a go to make a bit of a profit on it. im an opertunist you see, and because im always skint, i like to make money (As im sure everyone else does too), but on the otherhand i love gettin stuck into things and keeping myself busy, so i am looking forward to getting stuck into the engine. But i\'d rather earn money than spend it! lol
link me please?
link you to what? my ebay sale?
yes please
its on page 4 i believe mate. tell me what you think
Any item number
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4640140641&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
So have you had it running properly?
tried it again today to no avail! it was sounding more promising yesterday than it was 2day!! i will try the spark plug theory 2morow and see where that gets me!
Quote from: GrizzlyIts got Box\'s in the Back Ie. a Two seater and no Sunroof. :)
LOL as i say Like mine ;)
so how high up a model is this one? near the top? is there anything else tuned on the engine with these?
I don\'t know if they are higher up the range but basicly the R\'s are the sports versions so there a bit lighter and have a few things like Twin oil coolers and slightly harder suspension for the more aggressive driver :).
The tourers usaly are a bit more refined (leather, Sunroof etc) so tend to suffer more on weight.
The rare ones are the Rs, Rz and the Spirit.
Quote from: antrossertried it again today to no avail! it was sounding more promising yesterday than it was 2day!! i will try the spark plug theory 2morow and see where that gets me!
Sorry no i ment when you bought it. Did it run ok when you got it.
It a no luxury model basically...a racing version so to speak. No leather seats, (yours has alcantara for more butt grip on the track), no cruise control, no bose sound system, it has 2 oil coolers instead of 1, harder suspension than the rest of the models and also a front strut brace. The best news is that the R1 and R2 models are also the lightest. MORE INFO HERE
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394&highlight=model+differences
http://www.rx7.net.nz/fd-jp-models.html
cool. cruise control would have been nice tho! some nice person has stripped all of the speakers and stereo out of mine! but the sound of the engine when you floor it is all worth it!
yeah it has been running...i wouldnt say properly tho. it seemed very sluggish at times, as if perhaps running on only one rotor (although i wouldnt know what the performance of that would feel like), just guessing really. its always wanted to stall at idle as well, and sounds a bit rough.
Quote from: antrosserMine has the bins in the back, could i still get the seats to fit in there easily?
The bins are as rare as hens teeth and worth more than seats so if you want to swap you should be expecting some £s as well.
It\'s a simple swap but you need to replace quite a few of the panels so it\'s easiest to do the swap with both cars side-by-side!
I\'d be interested in a swap if you\'re interested! :D
As for the engine problems - it sounds like you\'re having some general wear and tear/poor maintenance problems and you\'re going to struggle to find out the bottom line with the engin until the ancillary bits are sorted! Might not be rebuild time yet though - mine ran with leaky water seals for 8k miles and still had a few k in it at that point!
if they are that rare i might just keep em! hehe. just got a quote for my car tho, they wanna charge me £1600! christ! lol. so long as its putting out alot more performance than it is at the moment then it will be worth it i reckon!
The engine was just running quite rough, now is not running! lol. all in the space of 150miles (3days!)
Thats the exact scenario i want to buy for circa £3k, but i\'m still not in a position to get one, as my current car is still on the market. Looks great nick bodywork wise, and its the spec i want.
Good luck
cheers mate. im not really bothered whether i sell it or not, i would love to see it through and get it looking the way i want it, just didnt realise there was going to be so much cost involved with it! insurance, fuel, rebuilds etc. so learning the hard way (As i usually always do)!
Yup, i\'m trying the otherway around, learning then doing!
thats the better way of going around it! plus you save money too (Hopefully anyway)!
lol, or be in a better position to spend it.
The things i\'ve worked out:-
If you buy a new import for £6k, it\'ll need a re-build.
If you buy an existing one for £5-6k, which hasn\'t had a re-build, it\'ll need one.
So i want a good body, with a few small mods, but needs a rebuild for sure, for about £3k, that means i can spend £1k-1600, on learning how they work and rebuild it myself, as long as the housings are okay, and it just needs seals and gaskets.
Quote from: antrosserif they are that rare i might just keep em! hehe. just got a quote for my car tho, they wanna charge me £1600! christ! lol. so long as its putting out alot more performance than it is at the moment then it will be worth it i reckon!
The engine was just running quite rough, now is not running! lol. all in the space of 150miles (3days!)
£1600, is that an insurance quote? Not too bad really. Greybeards round here tend to get silly low quotes but they younger you are the worse it is!
THe engine might not be as abd as you think but you\'ll likely have to spend to get the problems dignosed by a specialist or get someone to visit who knows their stuff. Don;t resign to a rebuild until it\'s definately needed!
Anthony i have noticed that your jumping straight to the conclusion that it needs rebuilding without even checking for other problems first..that frame of mind is gonna cost you thousands mate
Whereabouts in Gloucestershire are you?
I know. i just wanna have a go at it. ive got a year with it off the road. i might as well do it now while im not relying on it other than it breaking down later when im dependant on it! its all a learning curve, and the previous owner told me it needed one so i have gone into this with the expectation that that is what i will need to do. once its done its done and shouldnt bother me for another 60k or something. Thats the theory behind that one anyway. im pretty sure its ****ed anyway.
As for specialist diagnosis, hopefully shouldnt need that (Fingers crossed) or more pounds are going to be added to the list! how would i know if the existing rotor housings im using are suitable to be used again? specialist job? can they be machined again or are they scrap from that point on?
have you heard of dursley before?
antrosser.
Did you buy that from a guy in tonbridge kent?
i did yeah, you know him?
a few things, you seem to be confused that the coolant buzzer is going off even when cold. This alert means you are low on coolant, not that you are overheating. Top it up.
Before you start on a rebuild there are many simple things to run through and check before ripping the engine out. You really need to top the coolant up, unflood it as per the instructions given on here, check your spark plugs and then take it from there. It may have a strong engine hiding behind all this issues and you could diagnose that for free.
Topping the coolant up was the first thing i did, and still occurs so not that. must be a faulty sensor or alternative problem.
also the engine hasnt had a rebuild and is approaching 70,000miles, therefore it is going to need one soon. since it is off the road for a year, it is the perfect opertunity to do this now, also do some performance tuning like 3mm apex seals, porting and polishing, up the boost, maybe NOS etc... im doing it for the experience
i live 20 mins away from dursley if ui wanna swap ure back seats for holder things + some cash
Quote from: antrosseri did yeah, you know him?
No i had a look at the car thats all
Quote from: antrosserTopping the coolant up was the first thing i did, and still occurs so not that. must be a faulty sensor or alternative problem.
Out of intrest does the level keep going down when you top it up or does the water stay in about the same place?
it stays in about the same place, no sign of leakage if thats what you referring to?ill replace the thermostat, rebuild the engine and if it still does it, maybe replace the water pump. ill have run out of ideas then! lol.
Iain, how come you didnt purchase the car if you looked at it? just wondered if you saw something wrong that i didnt?
And craig, i already have the bins in the back!! lol
Antrosser
i meant i have seats and want bins :p
if your going to build the engine never use an old pump, if the pump fails it will destroy your new engine, as for finding out about your rotor housings etc that can only be done once the engine is stripped, housings can not be machined, if there scrap there scrap.
sorry Craig, think i am gonna keep the bins. if i ever do decide to sell tho, you will have first refusal on them ;-)
Cheers for the info Dave, i will def get a new water pump for it now! all these tips are very useful to me. if the housings are in good condition though,can they be machined then? cheers