hiya :D
as per title really - will FD injectors ( 850 ) fit in a FC ??
or would i need a new fuel rail aswell ?
ta
stu
nope... There Side feeders...
It depends on what you after doing, they could proberly be made to fit with some messing about but if you have the EMS to run the 850\'s you may be better off buying a pair of 1600\'s cheap and then you don\'t have to mess about with them in the future. Don\'t forget though any diffrent Injectors will need to be set up Properly.
i take it that the 1200 - 1600 are side feed aswell ???
i take it this is why 720 are soooo expensive .. as they will just drop in
hummm first step and already a spanner in the works :(
im really tempted to fit microtech so the bigger injectors would be ideal - i thought i could drop in FD ones .... pity
i like how you say
better off buying a pair of 1600\'s cheap
i just cant picture this !! LOL
Aus rotary do group buys on injectors fairly often Stu from the states mine came from there no extra shipping costs, as mine where packaged up and shipped to me direct.
Kevin
there is not just one type, you can buy upto 1300\'s side feed then you have to buy a Custom rail for the 1600\'s on and FD.
I had 1600\'s in a slightly bored out Sock T2 rail.
1600\'s are proberly the cheapest size to buy New, sounds daft but its True, Shop about and you\'ll find a 1600 is around half the price of a new 850
from memory did\'nt the S5 NA have 720 as Secondrys? or am i thinking of a diffrent Model?
So you taking the Plung, Fitting a Microtech. :)
Hi Stu,
As has sort of been said, FD injectors are side feed but T11 are top feed
BTW, We sell top feed 1600 injectors for £76.73 + vat each and wont sell 1300\'s because other companys have had failures in the past with the injectors seizing and wipeing engines out :2eek :2eek .
thanks for the input guys - i just thought that 1600\'s might have been a bit over kill
still on the stock turbo and IC
unless you can tune them down that much ???
Chris : not sure where you can get 720;\'s from - they are usually very expensive , and yes im VERY tempted to go the microtech route - just from what kev showed me ( git !! )
i suppose the question to ask is
"what can i put in a STOCK FC rail that wont need mods ?? "
Stu :D
No the question is what is you buget and what are you going to upgrade further in the future?
Silly question with Stu he doesn\'t have a budget but will gratefully take any donations :D
hummm good question chris
OK then .
1 - yes im on a budget - a very tight one
2 - i would like to see 240 - 250 at the wheels
3 - prob keep stock tubbie and IC
4 - will no doubt fit water injection ( cheaper than FMIC )
and thats about it really ..nothing over the top - but something with a bit of grunt :D LOL
im not sure the best way forward - but i want to do it safely
and as kev convinced me - everything i put on i can take off and sell :D
Stu
So what your saying is you need to find a stock car that has 750\'s up that is low imp (not 100% sure if there High or low??)
Its only the Begining of the circle, if you fit big injector with a Bigger Pump then you\'ll need a Rising rate fuel reg too?
You should have bought my 1000\'s. :Nono!
Could you not fit an FD fuel rail and inlet manifold? Failing that why not find out what other cars have big top feed injectors that you may be able to use :)
Could you not go down the route of fitting and extra pair of injectors instead, that way you can keep the stock rail as is.
Just lobbing in some ideas :)
Quote from: grinderhummm good question chris
OK then .
1 - yes im on a budget - a very tight one
2 - i would like to see 240 - 250 at the wheels
3 - prob keep stock tubbie and IC
4 - will no doubt fit water injection ( cheaper than FMIC )
and thats about it really ..nothing over the top - but something with a bit of grunt :D LOL
im not sure the best way forward - but i want to do it safely
and as kev convinced me - everything i put on i can take off and sell :D
Stu
Not being funny but your not going to see the best part of 300hp at the flywheel on a Stock Turbo. Thing is people run 1 bar on the stock turbo and get about 250hp at the flywheel. People that have gone the Bigger Turbo way often Find the IC is Crap!! it often holds the power back and is usles past a point.
also may i sugest you don\'t go Microtech if you are going to remove it all when you come to sell, get a power FC as you don\'t have to change the Engine loom to run it, That would be a Problem if you wanted to remove the Microtech as it uses the Plugs of the old loom.
if you are only thinking small numbers you may be better buying a Fifth Injector set up and sticking a Stock Injector or two in?
(BTW i still have a T4 manifold and possably a Turbo for a Turbo 2 if you decide you want a bigger single)
Quote from: BrettCould you not fit an FD fuel rail and inlet manifold? Failing that why not find out what other cars have big top feed injectors that you may be able to use :)
Could you not go down the route of fitting and extra pair of injectors instead, that way you can keep the stock rail as is.
Just lobbing in some ideas :)
The Fd lower Inlet won\'t fit a T2 engine (I tried ;)) you would stand more of a chance getting a FD rail and Injectors and make up a bracket so you can fasten the rail down (bolt holes are in diffrent places). you could do it this way but it would be a risk, Buying 2x Fd injectors and a Fuel rail??
Stu i have two letters for you if you want 300hp easy and safe .....F.....D....... ;)
I managed 250 at the flywheel fairly easily on the stock tubby, I reckon you could achieve 270+ with a fully mapped ECU and a bit of WI.
Apexi for the FC is prohibitavley expensive :(
What boost was you running? I had a go to get some Power from a Stock engine ALONG!!! time ago and i found you don\'t get big power per Psi past 1 bar, its like the Turbo\'s sweet spot is about 12psi.
As an Example i had a To4E on a mild ported Motor proberly not set up the best at 14psi and i could only get just over 270hp, Unfortunatly I poped the Motor just after that so i could\'nt tell you if fitting an Ic etc would have made a diffrence but i was told at the Time the Ic was restricting the Flow and would have to be changed to run any more hp? So read what you will into that?
(BTW my engine failed through a det two weeks after it was set up on a Rollers)
Quote from: BrettI managed 250 at the flywheel fairly easily on the stock tubby, I reckon you could achieve 270+ with a fully mapped ECU and a bit of WI.
Apexi for the FC is prohibitavley expensive :(
its cheaper than a Microtec.
You could buy an additional inj controller 2nd hand very cheap, get someone to weld you an inj boss on your inlet and away you go. Stick an 040 pump in the tank for extra fuel, big exhaust and a reasonable intercooler and you could be somewhere near 300 at the fly.
or
Big turbo, ported engine, big injectors, power FC & u could see 378 RWHP
:Giggle
I think when it comes to building a Powerfull car within a Budget you have to do as much of the work/fab yourself to keep Labour down. Thats where all your money goes if your not carfull.
Just do your Home work there is lots of people out there with lots of diffrent ways of making this sort of Power just pick the one that suits you the best and go for it.
But you have to think for example i wanted 300hp you may be able to do it on a Stock turbo and a Small FMIC but what would happen if you wanted 300rwhp you would have to change the Turbo and the IC if you get what i mean, decided on a HP and stick to it thats the secret to Budget Tuning. I had this problem where i bought lots of bits for BIG power and then decided i did\'nt want it that powerfull so i down tuned it and becouse of the size of turbo/IC etc it spoiled the way the car drove. So its swings and roundabouts.
\'ADVISE\' -- \'Performance & Cheap\' - is like trying to mix oil & water!
Forget it, you are asking for trouble, you will end up spending more when it ends in tears! :Nono!
It all depends how much power you are looking for as to wether or not its possible within a budget, I agree that you wont see huge figures without buying the appropriate kit.
IIRC my TII was running around 1bar, peak power at 6250rpm was 248bhp (corrected) 196bhp (atw), 246ftlb. That was on the stock ECU, I changed to a mapped ECU shortly after that.
Its this that makes me belive that 300FWHP is possible from the stock setup, my power was deffo being killed by heatsoak, so I think some WI would deffo give some improoved results. (I did 3 runs, power dropped by over 25bhp and the car was already hot when it went on there so it may have been producing 5-10hp more on a cold run)
Anyway, to sum up, FD injectors dont fit :p
In terms of ECU cost, a 2nd hand Apexi is normally about £400 more than a 2nd hand Micro\' (Going via Ebay and the ads in various forums)
i have never seen a 2nd hand microtec for sale for an rx7, i looked into both in quite a lot of detail. I paid 400 for a new apexi and a new micro tec was 800.
Really?!? Last Apexi I saw for sale for an FC was over $1800 (USD)
Either way, both are well outside the £50 limit for grinder :D
what have i started ... Ekkk
hummmmmm looks like this could be a none starter then ... shame as i had plans :(
i didnt realise it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to squeeze power out of an FC
just to see if i can sort this thread out .. should be fun
1 - i have seen Microtechs for about $800 mark ( thats AUS dollar so under £400 GBP ) - OK apexi is cheaper - but how much to fit the thing and how much damage do you do to the wiring ?
2 - chris - you MIGHT have the manifold and turbo - so what else would i need ? - i take it that i would need a microtech to run all this and bigger injectors ?
3 - if its sooo hard to get power out of an FC - why are sooo many people trying to do it ( ant , trex etc.. )
4 - yeah chris - i should have bought your injectors , microtech etc...
5 - when i said that i can remove and sell stuff - thats prob when the car is destined for the big garage in the sky !! LOL
hummmm well thats pretty much cover what i was thinking
feel all sad now ... too many hurdles for the simpliest of things
Maybe the FD is the way forward - but i have to buy and then buy bits for it - i already have the FC sat here :D
like i said - still surprised that you cant get 250 RW-BHP out of an FC without spending £10000000000000000 ???
Stu :( :( :(...going to bed now and sulking
I\'m just a little Puzzled? Getting power int that hard. But you can ask anyone thats done it, its not cheap. It don\'t matter is you are tunning a Mini or a 911 its going to lighten your pocket.
its OK chris - i know that it will lighten my pockets - thats not a real problem to be honest - its just the amount that it lightens them
im trying to work out the best steps in what to do
do you put the microtech on first - just so that you can add more stuff after or what
thats why the injector thread started .. im in no rush for them - just bouncing idea\'s around
im intregued with your tubbie and manifold though :D :D
Stu, big numbers mean nothing.
90% of people on here rave on about their power dyno figures etc.. and to back this up on the strips or tracks they show nothing!
Sad but true, there is a chap on here with the best signature ever, \'some people race dynos, some race cars\'...(something along these lines).
I\'ll give you an example from my own experiences, at RS last year I had my car on the dyno for fine tunning a week before, we were messing about and squeezed a max total of (I believe) 378bhp out and printed it(naturally), the car was not safe to drive in this condition, well you could of but I won\'t feel right as this was on the max safe limits.
We tunned the car down to near 300bhp, yes only 300bhp(all hub readings), and guess what, the car hit 12\'s on the 1/4 on it\'s first set of runs out! And on big heavy 18 inch wheels with 35 series tyres etc... :)
Couple of weeks later I went for broke and cranked it up again to the big numbers... guess what, I done 11\'s, but the engine did not last!
It\'s not always about big power and big numbers.
Oh, and my FC had serious dosh spent on it, no corners were cut there!
Remember \'Quality is better than Quantity\'.. ;)
Good Luck
Well, speaking to one or two people in the know, you can increase fuel flow through the standard injectors using an FPR (fuel pressure regulator), the standard 550s will run more fuel. in the long run though you\'ll need injectors, pump and FPR. (I\'m in the same situation now!) I have found some 1000cc top feed inj for a very nice "Grinder Friendly" price, but the do need a tiny bit of modification on the fuel rail (nothing serious). 1600s may be a bit too much and the step from 550 primaries to 1600s could be a little difficult to map. I\'ve been advised by a couple of tuners in Aus to go for 1000s all round (they use that setup on their 9 second FC so who am I to argue?)
I would suggest putting the microtech on early in the process as you can then map for each mod as you do it. FMIC in itself isn\'t too expensive, the pipework and fitting is the issue, depends on how good you are with your hands!
Quote from: grinderwhat have i started ... Ekkk
hummmmmm looks like this could be a none starter then ... shame as i had plans :(
i didnt realise it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to squeeze power out of an FC
just to see if i can sort this thread out .. should be fun
1 - i have seen Microtechs for about $800 mark ( thats AUS dollar so under £400 GBP ) - OK apexi is cheaper - but how much to fit the thing and how much damage do you do to the wiring ?
2 - chris - you MIGHT have the manifold and turbo - so what else would i need ? - i take it that i would need a microtech to run all this and bigger injectors ?
3 - if its sooo hard to get power out of an FC - why are sooo many people trying to do it ( ant , trex etc.. )
4 - yeah chris - i should have bought your injectors , microtech etc...
5 - when i said that i can remove and sell stuff - thats prob when the car is destined for the big garage in the sky !! LOL
hummmm well thats pretty much cover what i was thinking
feel all sad now ... too many hurdles for the simpliest of things
Maybe the FD is the way forward - but i have to buy and then buy bits for it - i already have the FC sat here :D
like i said - still surprised that you cant get 250 RW-BHP out of an FC without spending £10000000000000000 ???
Stu :( :( :(...going to bed now and sulking
LOL
Stu I have a couple hundred more miles to do before my fc engine has run in.
I had an apexi fitted the ap engineering one for the turboII I can\'t remember now as it was a while ago but I think I only paid about 600 quid all in for it.
Weather permitting it will be mapped within the next week.
I see no reason not to get good power from an fc so many others have.
You can do things on a budget by sorting alot of stuff yourself, just make sure you take your time, check and double check. Good things come to those who wait. I hope to see 400bhp from my turboII, running less than 16psi
your all making me feel better now chaps :D :D :D
the plan at the mo is
1 - MOT
2 - Clutch
3 - decided on FMIC or Water Injection ( i like the idea of water to be honest )
4 - Microtech
unless a cheap tubbie appears ( cough GRIZZLY cough )
like i said - dont want MAMMOTH figures - 250 at the wheels would be very nice - but thats over 300 at the fly .. ekkk
Stu :D
not wanting to make u feel down agaign Stu, but I\'m only after 250-270 atw and I\'m running a 1/2 bridge!
Still I have plans for more than that and I\'ve had the engine work done with the long term project in mind.
humm thats true i suppose mark
i reckon mine is putting out about 195 at the wheels at the mo - so maybe another 30 bhp would be nice
i suppose that should be do able - sub 250 BHP
you MUST be close to that figure mark with the mods you have ??
Quote from: grinderhumm thats true i suppose mark
i reckon mine is putting out about 195 at the wheels at the mo - so maybe another 30 bhp would be nice
i suppose that should be do able - sub 250 BHP
you MUST be close to that figure mark with the mods you have ??
with the stock ECU, stock IC and stock turbo but the 1/2 bridge, induction kit and decat I managed 198 at the fly! (max power was acheived at 4800 rpm! :eek
As it is still out of action after I blew up the ingition module and it is being fixed in aus at the mo, I have no idea what I am running at the mo. Remember I have no boost control and stock fueling at the moment.
im sure brett got 196 at the wheels
a stock TII is 202 at the fly - so how come you lost power with the port and the decat ... very strange
unless you had a lot of heat soak ???
well, I suspect the fact the the bridge was bringing the power in too early and the turbo was really struggling to cope with the increase in flow. (oh yes and that was a max boost of 8psi at 2800rpm dropping to 6psi at 4800 when it hit 198bhp)
humm yeah i picture that being a problem !
the max boost at 2.8K is pretty handy though :D
handy? interesting is a better word! Also makes for thirsty and rapid progress in town!