Any suggestions please, i have a little spare cash next month and have decided to treat myself. Now not sure what to treat myself too! it\'s hard life! LOL
It\'s a choice between a PFC or Greedy Intercooler - i really don\'t know what to get (or do ya have to have a PFC before you can get a uprated intercooler?)
Now what i\'m running is pretty standard (induction kit, Straight through exhaust de\'cat, apexi AVCR and stock tubs)
Any advice would be great.
Cheers Stu
PFC with out doubt, just mapping the car will make it safer, faster and able to take ad on later.
Cheers for quick response, was thinking PFC. Now how much do these typicaly cost to get mapped? and can you run them on the base map?
Cheers Stu
you can run them on base map, they are extemely rich, I heard £500 mentioned, you would need to speak to whoever you are going to use to get a guide.
The base map isnt great tbh.
FYI, we charge 300-350 inc vat for tuning power fc.
Great stuff, looks the PFC is the way forward then. Shall pop it at the top of my list then! lol. Thanks for the input.
Cheers Stu
When you get the pfc you can sell the AVCR, because the pfc controls boost. Take the money from the AVCR and use it towards tuning.
The PFC does not control it effectively, imho you will still need a boost controller of some discription.
Or you could hold on to the cash and get the IC the same time, & get the car mapped with the IC fitted...... Save you mapping it, then having to re-map it when you fit the IC???!!!!!
Jono
Quote from: Jono FD3Or you could hold on to the cash and get the IC the same time, & get the car mapped with the IC fitted...... Save you mapping it, then having to re-map it when you fit the IC???!!!!!
Jono
What i\'m now planning on doing is getting the PFC & then running it on the basic map until purchase IC about summer time (july), shall then get it mapped. I\'m under the understanding these PFC can self learn to a degree? so should be ok to run it a bit rich from may ta july.
Just a case of searching for the best PFC deal now though, seen some on Ebay but just not sure about importing from Japan. Just feel safer in the UK, Home ground and all. Unless any1 has heard good feed bk from direct buys from Japan?
Cheers Stu
the best mod I ever did out of abut 4k\'s worth of mods was the PFC. It will run rich as hell until you get it mapped but the difference you\'ll find on a base map with a straight through and an induction kit is instantly noticebale. As soon as you can afford to get it mapped do, the bhp increase is hugely noticable, especially with the couple of basic mods you have, it will open up the power massively.
Agree with the comment about it being poor at controlling boost though. I had the same mods as you plus a street port and when it got on the Dyno it was found that no matter what my settings the boost was going off the scale and it was uncomfortably lean.
A good boost controller is a must with a straight through exhaust.
Quote from: Stu.WilsonJust a case of searching for the best PFC deal now though, seen some on Ebay but just not sure about importing from Japan. Just feel safer in the UK, Home ground and all. Unless any1 has heard good feed bk from direct buys from Japan?
A couple of guys have ordered from there and got the goods. Some have had to pay customs, some haven\'t. Its a gamble: on the one hand you could get a nice cheap PFC, on the other you could wait for 2 weeks for it to arrive and then end up paying the same as in the UK due to customs etc...
I\'m after one as well, maybe we could do a group buy of 2! :)
Ta, Paul.
Quote from: Oedipus RexAgree with the comment about it being poor at controlling boost though. I had the same mods as you plus a street port and when it got on the Dyno it was found that no matter what my settings the boost was going off the scale and it was uncomfortably lean.
A good boost controller is a must with a straight through exhaust.
On the assumption every things plumbed in right and working properly, its not a boost controller u need so much - more to put some restriction back in the exhaust. This has been said a 100 times; the wastegate in the twin turbo pack is only so big - and can only be ported out so far. If your super free-flowing exhaust outflows what your w/gate needs to by-pass from the turbines in order to maintain your target boost - no boost controller will fix it. The wastegates physical size and thus flow ability cannot bleed enough gas away from the turbos to prevent them exceeding the boost you want. A boost controller will help control your boost curve to a degree - but if cant make the wastegate flow more, just open earlier etc to get a head start.
Good news is have no problems with boost, i\'m only running .85 on the AVCR. Mind you not sure what is safe to run on the stock setup? but am very happy with the power delivery, mind you wouldn\'t say no to a single tub! one day! LOL.
I E-Mailed the company on Ebay last night and also checked out the credability of some of there feedback. Seem\'s ok, always get little nervous when buying on Ebay. But up too £500 on Paypal your covered by the looks of things.
Now the bloke from this Ebay company said bulk discount starts at 5 units and what ya get is free shipment. So thats £30 and he also said they would mark the items as gifts, so to try and avoid extra cost at customs (not sure how legal that is though? haha). I estimate total cost if all tax is paid, at around £490 (£400 of which is for the PFC), could be wrong though.
If anyone is interested in group buy then let me know, will be ordering mine real soon.
Cheers Stu
Quote from: Stu.WilsonIf anyone is interested in group buy then let me know, will be ordering mine real soon.
Doh!
Just ordered mine from him.... :rolleyes:
Or you could try //www.nengun.com - that\'s where i got mine from. Very good value for money.
On the \'map now\' vs \'map later\' argument...
The base map isn\'t great and does have a few holes in it that can cause problems with other combinations of mods.
When you put an intercooler in you may need to replace the fuel pump and uprate the injectors if you\'re planning on running more than .8 bar boost.
Re:Worx charge an initial price for mapping and then subsequent mapping sessions are charged by the hour (thus significantly cheaper)... great if you keep going back for more tweaks!
Another bonus of having a map setup for your car is the transition and pickup ofthe twins will be smoother and more controllable.
Stu have a word with Brian Ellis of Rotary Imports about mapping - he really knows his stuff and the rate he quoted me was very competitive.
QuoteAnother bonus of having a map setup for your car is the transition and pickup ofthe twins will be smoother and more controllable.
I can vouch for that! Really nice and smooth, with a jump in torque at changeover, but is nice and smooth and progressive. Lovely power curve i have. Thanks to WGT.
Hi all,
Stu - yer i\'ve heard about Brian, been told he\'s very good and knows his stuff! will prob contact him and Re:Worx. Cheers for the tip!
Iaint - When ya say \'The base map isn\'t great and does have a few holes in it that can cause problems with other combinations of mods.\' what type of mods would these be? I have listed what i\'ve got above, do these form a bad combination? last thing i want to do is kill the engine! Cheers matey.
I must say though the transition and pickup of the twins is very nice and smooth at mo, so hoping the PFC wont affect this. I guess it shouldn\'t, should it? haha.
Am going to post in the wanted sec 1st and if no luck will order my PFC online with JPS on sat. One little concern though, i don\'t know if anyone else has heard this but. I\'ve heard it mentioned Apexi have gone or are going bust! Will have to see though, hence why i\'m putting my order in now, so don\'t have problems with not getting a unit. I could be totaly wrong mind you, it\'s just what i\'ve heard i must stress(don\'t shoot the messenger! LOL).
Quote from: Stu.WilsonHi all,
Stu - yer i\'ve heard about Brian, been told he\'s very good and knows his stuff! will prob contact him and Re:Worx. Cheers for the tip!
Iaint - When ya say \'The base map isn\'t great and does have a few holes in it that can cause problems with other combinations of mods.\' what type of mods would these be? I have listed what i\'ve got above, do these form a bad combination? last thing i want to do is kill the engine! Cheers matey.
I must say though the transition and pickup of the twins is very nice and smooth at mo, so hoping the PFC wont affect this. I guess it shouldn\'t, should it? haha.
Am going to post in the wanted sec 1st and if no luck will order my PFC online with JPS on sat. One little concern though, i don\'t know if anyone else has heard this but. I\'ve heard it mentioned Apexi have gone or are going bust! Will have to see though, hence why i\'m putting my order in now, so don\'t have problems with not getting a unit. I could be totaly wrong mind you, it\'s just what i\'ve heard i must stress(don\'t shoot the messenger! LOL).
Hi,
I\'m not a tuner and only repeating comments passed by a tuner when discussing the Apexi base map and how much better a proper map is... I couldn;t tell you much detail of the base map\'s failings other then some of the cells have \'unwise\' timings and they occur in places where there is significant load and rpm!
I found that at low revs the base map was quite rough and prone to dropping the revs very low (~400) when hot and in traffic.
Also other problems with the car can be highlighted by a dyno/mapping session.
When mine was on the rollers last summer we found out that the car was running lean under load > 5k rpm. It wasn\'t doing this the previous year and we traced it back to an ageing fuel pump that wasn;t able to keep up anymore! As I was playing on a runway the next day it was a good job or I think I\'d have runa great risk of losing the engine! :2eek
Quote from: iaintHi,
When mine was on the rollers last summer we found out that the car was running lean under load > 5k rpm. It wasn\'t doing this the previous year and we traced it back to an ageing fuel pump that wasn;t able to keep up anymore! As I was playing on a runway the next day it was a good job or I think I\'d have runa great risk of losing the engine! :2eek
That was lucky, a good job you discovered it in time. Could have been messy i suppose. What i shall probley do is still run on base map and see how that is, it will only be for max 2mnths. In the worst case if it is really rough on the base map, i can always remove the PFC till i get the IC and have it all done then. But thanks for the info, it\'s always good to gather as much as poss! With bit of luck will have the PFC in place for RSIII.
Stu - it\'s one of those balances we all try to reach - getting the best out of the car versus cost! You should be okay but a breif power-run on a dyno would be worth the £40 or so they\'ll charge for piece of mind.
Quote from: iaintStu - it\'s one of those balances we all try to reach - getting the best out of the car versus cost! You should be okay but a breif power-run on a dyno would be worth the £40 or so they\'ll charge for piece of mind.
Yep that does make sense, think thats the way i\'l go forward with a power run.
Cheers Stu
Quote from: Stu.WilsonNow what i\'m running is pretty standard (induction kit, Straight through exhaust de\'cat, apexi AVCR and stock tubs)
Hi Stu, a few quick questions if thats ok?
Is that all on the stock ECU?
Have you removed the airpump?
Is the idle ok?
Is the decat a highflow cat or a complete midpipe?
and how many miles have you covered running this setup?
The reason I ask is that my car should be near ready soon, and I was wondering if I\'m taking a risk running similar to the above with the stock ECU, I don\'t have an AVCR which I\'m thinking should really be next....
Thanks
Dave
Quote from: ds2000Hi Stu, a few quick questions if thats ok?
Is that all on the stock ECU?
Have you removed the airpump?
Is the idle ok?
Is the decat a highflow cat or a complete midpipe?
and how many miles have you covered running this setup?
The reason I ask is that my car should be near ready soon, and I was wondering if I\'m taking a risk running similar to the above with the stock ECU, I don\'t have an AVCR which I\'m thinking should really be next....
Thanks
Dave
Hi ya Dave, yep running on stock ECU at mo, Power FC will be coming through next week(lovely!). Have still got air pump on it, but willl be removing soon, as the cat has been totaly removed and from what i understand the airpump only serves as an aid to the Cat, so not needed.
The car runs perfect (hope i haven\'t spoken to soon, LOL) and great power delivery, idle fine too a steady 800rpm. This setup has been run for approx 4k so far and more than happy with it.
Mind you if i had the choice between the buying an AVCR or PFC i\'l probley go PFC route. Think AVCR costs £330 new & ya can get PFC from Japan for £415 deliver, mind you ya do run the risk of getting hit for VAT.The only reason i have AVCR is got it for £100 2nd hand, lovely piece of kit though.
I think it all comes down to personal choice and what you want to achieve at the end of it, some of the guys on here could probley give a much more educated answer to any Q\'s.
Hope this helps ya mate, Pm or E-Mail me if ya have any more Q\'s.
Cheers Stu
Thanks Stu,
I\'m seriously thinking about the PFC. My reasons for asking were a few in the US said that if I ran without a cat I\'d run a serious risk of boost spikes, which did seem a little odd to me...
Thats why I asked about the AVCR, I was wondering if it was holding everything together :)
The airpump does serve the cat, but I\'m pretty sure it pumps air into the IM as well, so I\'m wondering if that effects the idle. If you are getting a PFC I doubt its an issue.
I seem to remember when I removed it having to make a few blanking plates (3 in total) for the IM :)
Thanks again!
Dave
Hi Dave,
When i had this all setup without the AVCR it was boost spiking, so the answer would be yep the AVCR does hold it all together (this is with stock down pipe).
I\'ve just popped my HKS downpipe on yesterday and am running lean. So in a dangerous situation!! As temp measure to fix this prob i have replaced the restricting plate in the back box. This has cured the problem and will now need to look at long term solution to this (i.e fuel pump and injectors).
If you visit rhdjapan.com they have got a secound hand PFC on there for approx £340 delivered to UK. I have brought my one from here for £415 all in, just hope i dodge tax\'s!
Cheers Stu
Cheers matey :)
Thanks for answering the questions on the boost spikes as well, you hear so many contradicting reports on mods with the FD sometimes it does make you wonder.
Am I right in thinking that the PFC can control the FD boost as well? If so then that £340 seems a bit of a bargain :)
Thanks again!
Dave
DAve,
The PFC can control the boost, and you can set it fairly easily using the dataloggit.....the PFC wont let boost "spike" to a value above 0.2bar above the value you set it to.
340 is a bargain somewhat!
Quote from: ds2000Cheers matey :)
Thanks for answering the questions on the boost spikes as well, you hear so many contradicting reports on mods with the FD sometimes it does make you wonder.
Am I right in thinking that the PFC can control the FD boost as well? If so then that £340 seems a bit of a bargain :)
Thanks again!
Dave
Hi Dave,
You can buy a boost controller kit that attaches to the PFC. But i have read on several threads on here that they are not to good and for proper independant control a seperate boost controller is required. Mind you i have no experience with the PFC boost controller kit, so could be wrong.
I would have thought though that having the two seperate would be an advantage though.
Cheers Stu