:god Ok so there is htis guy who is trying to put a 12a into a morris minor and it just wont go in easily because...well it just wont.
So the current problem I face is that even the skinniest of radiators wont fit in front of the engine and beforer the grill. So can someone please explain how they size up the correct size of rad to go with their car? As in I have an engine and want a different to stock rad so therefore I will go with .........
Is there a basic rule of thumb that says if an engine can produce 150 horse power then it must have a certain sized rad. If yes then this would help me to choose the new rads size.
anyone understand this coz as usual I seem to be almost confusing myself. :evillaugh :rolleyes:
cheers, michael.
Ok so a different question....what psi does a usual rotary water system pressurise to?
mm dont know bud, but I do know that the Mazda Radiators are very efficient for a Rotary, and so therefore, if you find a radiator from another car that will fit that space, it wont be good enough.
We might need you to get one custom made, with the correct "heat transfer capacity" or whatever a radiator is measured in !
mmm FD manual says to test for leaks at 20 PSI !
1st gen manual says cap opens at 13 lb/in2
Cheers martin. I have a few wack ideas going through me scone at the minute. I am worried about the standard 12a water pump being able to pump the water through something like a twin rad setup. Both rads would be in the engine bay though. So I figured that with 2 smaller rads and extra piping the volume would be the same. All I would have to be clever about would be airflow but I think I can do that.
cheers and thanks, michael.
hmm....20 PSI. I don\'t quite understand. The rad cap for an FD is 0.9 bar. Plus the atmospheric 1 bar of pressure, makes 1.9 bar: this equates to 29.9PSI.
Can anyone explain that?
The coolant system runs at 0.9 bar or ~13 psi. Why are you adding on atmospheric pressure?
you will always test over the required limit I suppose Mazda decided 20Psi was enough to show up any faults.
You shouldn\'t need to add atmospheric on as most of the time people will quote guage pressure and not absolute pressure.
Well, overall, for calculating the temperature that the coolant boils at you would use the absolute pressure. I consider the coolant system to run at 1.9 bar, as then it makes the calculation for boiling coolant easier to work out.
There we go then, test for leaks at 20 psi gauge pressure or ~34.7 psi absolute pressure.
Bob,Bob..Bob...you are a stress princess my dear friend.Measure the available space for the rad,go to the breakers and find one that fits.Have the pipe attachments moved to suite the ROTOR setup i.e.both pipes on one side of rad.Fit radiator and electric fan...Its diff to explain without getting to tech,the size of the rad dictates the angle of the installation which dictates the size of the fan.The rotary water pump is very efficient and can pump loads vast distances so that must not be a worry............pressure testing and all that is a minor worry for you and not worth the pain. :cheers
Quote from: travellinbobOk so a different question....what psi does a usual rotary water system pressurise to?
the stock cap pressure is 0.9 bar
what rad is the VW bloke running in his beetle ? surely that same setup would fit in the moggy ? tried and tested too ?
Quote from: nikphmm....20 PSI. I don\'t quite understand. The rad cap for an FD is 0.9 bar. Plus the atmospheric 1 bar of pressure, makes 1.9 bar: this equates to 29.9PSI.
Can anyone explain that?
you dont need to add atmos pressure as it is cancelled out because the same pressure is on the outside of the pipe also
Quote from: antnicukyou dont need to add atmos pressure as it is cancelled out because the same pressure is on the outside of the pipe also
Somebody with common sense...............thanx Ant
Quoteyou dont need to add atmos pressure as it is cancelled out because the same pressure is on the outside of the pipe also
Actually, surely that means that the coolant system is
definately pressurized to 1.9 bar. This will be because the cap is 0.9 bar - but there is an extra 1 bar of atmos pressure behind it. Therefore, the coolant, to open that cap, has to exert a pressure of 0.9 + 1.0 bar on that cap.
Or maybe i\'m about to make myself look stupid. :p
Its like standing over the **** bowl,one day the atmo press is higher or lower,thats when you get to **** in the bowl or on the floor..............when you get to build a project like the old moggy,you dont get all technical on this ****.....you just do do it cos you got the experience and the know how and the feel to sort it all out.......... :cool
pressure just wants to get somewhere where the pressure is less. If you had 5 bar of pressure in a chamber and 5 bar of pressure around the outside, the pressurised \'substance\' on the inside wont try to get out because the pressure is the same. Pressure is cancelled out by whatever is on the outside of the container keeping it pressurised.
The problem with the space issue is there is none !!!!! The front pulley comes to within only an inch of the grill. So i cant angle the rad back like a shallow kind of v mount type thing. I dont think it is a stressfull thing Era but as i have no scrappies on the island it is a bit hard to source stuff. So I pop up these random questions coz I have some mad scheme in my head.
Cheers all fo rthe advice. I have done radiator conversions before but have always had more space. I have even thought about putting the radiator in the back of the car. But think i will go for a twin rad setup with a small one at the front slightly offset and the other by the side of the engine ala mini.
cheers, michael.
Quote from: antnicukpressure just wants to get somewhere where the pressure is less. If you had 5 bar of pressure in a chamber and 5 bar of pressure around the outside, the pressurised \'substance\' on the inside wont try to get out because the pressure is the same. Pressure is cancelled out by whatever is on the outside of the container keeping it pressurised.
:cool :cool :cool :cool :Typing
Pressure inside the cooling system is 0.9 bar higher than the (atmospheric) pressure outside the system.
Quote from: travellinbobCheers all fo rthe advice. I have done radiator conversions before but have always had more space. I have even thought about putting the radiator in the back of the car. But think i will go for a twin rad setup with a small one at the front slightly offset and the other by the side of the engine ala mini.
cheers, michael.
Just as important as the radiator size is making sure you leave enough room to get the air through it.
Hi michael.
Over the years I have had many Rads made to my spec and have had space problems like you and ended up with thicker core rads to get around problems and have even seen Rads with a hole constructed in the middle to give the pump pulley room if you have a inch spare can\'t you just put an electric fan on the other side of the engine, but its difficult without pictures for us all to see.
I have always worked on the theory that there is no word as can\'t, how about an electric water pump and can you fit the rad the other side of the slam panel, also if you have a inch spare can\'t you just put an electric fan on the other side of the engine, but as I say its difficult without pictures.
As regards the size of the Rad I personally with go for suck it and see with what ever you can get to fit then go from there, you will soon see if its getting too warm.
Hope this helps
Right i will go charge the batteries on the camera and get some snaps for you all. I would love a custom radiator but cant afford one at the minute. i did buy something on e-bay last night thoughthat might help. ;)
cheers and thanks guys.
Bob,
something you could try is an idea we used on the 20 B tripple FD, we took a stock FD rad and fans and placed it flat in the bottom of the engine bay where the undertray would be. It worked well and managed to keep a 3 rotor supercharged engine cool so should work on your 12a moggy
go and find a 5 turbo rad at the scrappers mate, a lot of them are copper core rads, there small and cool very well , trial and error for your project mate.
bang it in and watch your temps,
they have an 86 deg fan switch on them to that you could use.
little 5 turbos run very hot as std so i think it could work. ive used std rad with a big turbo on a 5 with high boost on track anyway, which kept cool.
MX-5, RX-5, BMW 5, Renault 5?
I think he means renault 5. I did buy an intercooler off a renoualt 5 last night that I m thinking of using as my first radiator in a twin setup. And will probably go for a mini one as the second.
Unfortunantly there is no room under the engine bay for a rad which sux as that would have beena great idea.
thanks.
sorry, renault 5 turbo.
failing that then, can you not cut the grill of and extend it forward a few inches and bog around the front of the wings and headlights to keep it flush.
also you could mount the rad in the boot and make a custom scoop to feed it slapped on roof! that would be cool and your engine bay temps would be cooler!
they did this on a skyline race car in japan, ive got pics somewhere i,ll try and get one posted
sounds a really cool project anyway :cool
I love old school retro cars
keep me posted on it mate
is it going to be a drag car?
It isnt going to be a drag car as such but will no doubt have its 48 year old butt dragged down the strip a some point! Hopefully the stuff i have bought for it will come mid next week so I will be able to get on with it. But lots to do till then anyway!
photos for Michael ....
Thanks Mike.
Michael, the easiest option I can see is a constructed rad with a hole the size of the water pump pulley.
If you have non alloy rad made it shouldn’t cost the earth, I would suggest under two hundred pounds .
Either that or take the engine back out and “modify†the bulk head to get the engine back around 4 or 5 inches, as this will be quicker than putting the rad in the boot due to the fabrication / mounting pipework and constructing vents involved .
It is not just the clearance issue front to back around the pulley but the radiator is fouled underneath by the engine barcket. Putting the engine back is not that easy as the steering rack is in the way. Basically even 1 inch further back the clutch fork hits the rack.
cheers mike for the photo posting.
would it clear if you moved the engine and box far enough back so that the whole cutch mechanism sat behind the steering rack ? you could add and acess panel inside so you could get to it.
Another thought is could you not replace the clutch fork mechanism with one of those inline slave cylinders like they have on SAAB\'s and the like (seen them on american v8\'s in hotrods too)
or a front suspension swap for a car that has a low front mounted steering rack ? a bit extreme I suppose !
The moggy front suspension is very similar to the Marina BTW. The Ford type 9 has the clutch for at 5 o\'clock so its not a problem, we ground out the top of the bell housing and then welded some material back in to provide a relief for the rack
Did you contact Dubber66 (I think??) and see what rad he used ... it looked pretty low profile)
(inline cylinder pictured below)
Hi Mike, no havnt contacted vw dude yet. Thoses inline cylinders would solve heaps of problems but my budget is almost completely starved fo cash. I will ring around a few motorsport places to see if there is one that could be used on the moggy. I am going back up to the workshop in a bit to finish painting the new axle housing before fitting it so will see if engine can be moved right back to put clutch fork on the back sideof the rack. Good idea though!
Mike I dont suppose you have any spare escort english dif centres lying around do you? Mine has been thrown out by the farm workers doing a random workshop clean up. (buggers)
cheers, michael.
i\'ve not got many old ford bits left nowadays :( at least an escort diff is a common thing is this country.
Yep, shouldnt be too hard to find one I guess. Just need to get the car back together before landlord gets the sh£ts with his workshop being taken up. But hey ho. Could be worse! :)
cheers, michael.