ive just started to bridgeport my end side housings.
should I bridgeport my inermediate housings or just large street port?
I want maximum power but want to be able to use the car on track days aswell as the strip.
Ive been told if I bridge the inter side housings it will idle really bad so Im worried about being thrown backward and forward in my seat when slowing down off throttle, and coming into bends when using the car on the track.
if the engine runs lumpy around 2000 rpm i dont mind, but what about 4000 rpm just holding throttle?
imagine that hunting at 4000 revs mid bend :eek:
has anyone tryed this set up before with big exahust ports for track use?
(my exaust ports are as big as i can go to with inserts left in)
There have been a couple of bridgeports built and can idle at 1500 to 2000. Guess it would depend on how big the bridge is and how its mapped.
4000 rpm would normally associate with peripheral porting.
Im sure one of the tuner builders will advise on bridge ands possibly mixing street.
In conjunction with a turbo I assume?
yes an hks t51r turbo mate, the car is a turbo 2 fc by the way
got a bid on ebay on a microtech with controler of an fc in the states, so thats going in the car if i get it, thinking about 850 prim and 1600 sec injectors with 2 walbro pumps fed from an ali tank with swirl pot.
Be interested in how you intend to get the car quiet enough to get on track?
Every bridgeport I have heard is LOUD, a big streetport will be around 100 - 110db, so unless you have some cleaver gismos I think you might struggle- trackwise, most stock / well modified 3 -400atw is more than enough for trackwork, any more and you start to get into reliability issues, best of luck anyway :wave
my fd is street ported full de cat and 4" racing beat box and was 115 db at elvington last year at 2500 revs, the guy believed it was 4000 revs and let me go!!!
your right john god knows how im gonna go on with noise
I might just give track a miss and go for drag then unless i can silence it somehow without restricting the flow to much
...........
carl, shall i just go for it and bridge the intermediate plate the same size as the end plates or do it a little bit smaller.
the inlets on the int plate are a lot smaller than the inlets on the end plates so should i just gauge it of this?
im not bothered about tickover as the cars not going on the road, but i would like a play on the track now and then
Ive seen a car with a half round flap hidden in the exahusts on a cable inside the car to be half closed when in the paddock on track, then open it fully when your half way round the track :Thumbsup!
if i welded a 50mm half round piece on my 2 outlet exahust manifold pipes and drilled and tapped a m30 hole through both with a m30 screw and lock nut on each, i could just screw in to reduce the roar even.
Hi Stuart, I have a lot of experience with owning/driving NA Bridgeports (I drove one for quite a few years!) :)
If it is not going to be a road car - go all the way with the bridgeport, it will help you in making lots of power etc..
If you do a lot of work on the inlet ports - matching primary and secondaries for size/shape/angles as best you can - given the primaries will be smaller in height and general size. Don\'t forget to match port your inlet manifold also (as best you can).
You should also do some work on the exhaust ports, this can really affect power curves and the amount of grunt you will make (if you are really nice to Carl, he may share some secrets :) ).
Everything then extends on from the engine, ensuring you have the right exhaust manifold and correct turbo exhaust housing and compressor housing etc. etc. etc. - it is a science! don\'t let anyone tell you different!
As for the exhaust and trying to make it quieter for various occasions, anything that blocks or restricts exhaust flow will kill power of course, and it will run rich and there is more potential for fouling plugs etc.
I use to change the rear muffler on my na bridgeport, it made it much quieter and it wasn\'t too bad to drive (this was running a downdraft webber carby). So the exhaust went from a single 3 inch down to a 1 7/8th rear muffler. But it ran very rich and a lot of raw fuel use to go out the exhaust. I actually ran B7 plugs to stop it from fouling.
Now - as you will have EFI, you could try and do a tune for cruising around and a tune for flat out - but unless you have something like a MoTeC ECU that isn\'t easy to do.
Hope this helps.
You can bring the harshness down (noise wise) depending on what shape you\'ve ported your exhaust, a rounder shape tends to be less aggressive on the noise front. (Thats just my personal experience though)
You\'ve certainly pulled your finger out on this FC! You cant have had it a month yet? :D
the car stands me at 900 quid with all new side seals corner seals 3mm atkins tips and gasket kit and a rotor housing!
i got the car with a blown engine and loads of spares
it has profec b cnrtl ,shift light ,boost ,water temp ,oil temp ,and press gauge and fd dif
im bidding on a microtech ltx8 with controler which ends soon, so if i get that all i need is injectors fuel pres reg and fuel lines, ive got the fuel pumps an the fuel tank is cut up and ready for welding.
i got a t51r last year for 1300 quid for my fd, so this is going on to
im gonna start taking pics of milling machine milling bridge slots out with 8mm slot drill, it does it in 2 cuts! less than 3 minutes!!!!!!
Quote from: stuart wizyive just started to bridgeport my end side housings.
should I bridgeport my inermediate housings or just large street port?
I want maximum power but want to be able to use the car on track days aswell as the strip.
Ive been told if I bridge the inter side housings it will idle really bad so Im worried about being thrown backward and forward in my seat when slowing down off throttle, and coming into bends when using the car on the track.
if the engine runs lumpy around 2000 rpm i dont mind, but what about 4000 rpm just holding throttle?
imagine that hunting at 4000 revs mid bend :eek:
has anyone tryed this set up before with big exahust ports for track use?
(my exaust ports are as big as i can go to with inserts left in)
Bridge the inter plates mate.
Only unsilenced tracks will let you get anywhere near them.
Don\'t worry about thrown back & forwards get yourself a decent seat and belts to keep yourself securely strapped in. The only thing that will throw you back forth will be the power & brakes.
I personally think an apexi would be better than the micro.
When porting you want to increase port volume as well as port timing, concentrate much of your porting on making the volume of the port & runners much bigger.
i have thought about making new runners from stainless tube and making a large plenum out of 150mm stainless tube and capping each end.
then weld a flange on to this to take the std throttle fitting. this way i could make my runners all the same diamater with a much bigger bore and all four injectors could run inline with one rail across them all.
at work there is every size of alli stainles mild steel tube u can think of mate and also plate as well for all the flanges.
im not a welder but there are 10 blokes who can weld anything in the other shop, i can machine the flanges and make collets bored out to take the injectors.
weve already made a mild steel 100mm pipe feeding t4 flange with the 2 50mm runners going to flanges on the engine, its just about how far to go really mate.
this project started of as a bit of a laugh at first to race my mates space frame drag car but now its getting a lot more serious!!
I had a ½ bridge on the secondarys of my fd for about two years depending on your porting you should be fine when driving around town at above 30MPH but when you go under 30 you will have to drop dawn a gear. These are the things I had to live with.
· Very loud
· Idled at 1500rpm after I ran the engine in but 2000 before and very lumpy at slow speeds
· Fuel consumption was high but not bad if you don’t put your foot dawn to much
· Had to drive around in second gear when at 30mph but was ok once at 35mph
· You have to go in to 1st gear when you ware turning in two a t-junction at lower then 15mph.
On the plus side good power and spins turbos up quick also the power bend moves further up the rev range so you can hag on more when going round a fast band and power your way out.
If you drive on the road I would stay with a ½ bridge I haven’t driven a full bridge but I think that would be a little two extreme for a car that even driven on the road sometimes, but that just me hope that helps.
im going all out with full bridge and maybe custom plenum and runners, sod it :driving
would anybody like to test the car when its finished cause im gona shi te myself!
hera are some pics of the yellow beast from the east
pics of the white cage are not my car but thats what im doing with it
more pics of the yellow beast
..........
Quote from: stuart wizyi have thought about making new runners from stainless tube and making a large plenum out of 150mm stainless tube and capping each end.
then weld a flange on to this to take the std throttle fitting. this way i could make my runners all the same diamater with a much bigger bore and all four injectors could run inline with one rail across them all.
at work there is every size of alli stainles mild steel tube u can think of mate and also plate as well for all the flanges.
im not a welder but there are 10 blokes who can weld anything in the other shop, i can machine the flanges and make collets bored out to take the injectors.
weve already made a mild steel 100mm pipe feeding t4 flange with the 2 50mm runners going to flanges on the engine, its just about how far to go really mate.
this project started of as a bit of a laugh at first to race my mates space frame drag car but now its getting a lot more serious!!
Hi Stuart,
Big power can actually made from the standard inlet (I think your car would be a Series 5 RX-7?), even more with a 13B Cosmo style inlet (but housing port sizes are much larger with the Cosmo 13B - virtually the ultimate engine (13B) for big power ;) ).
If you are keen, you could certainly try and make something, when you do - you could also consider making your large plenum, which would eventually allow you to use exotic fuels/methanol, more injectors etc..
If you search around on //www.ausrotary.com you will find some pics. of custom intakes etc. to give you ideas.
Sounds like you need to work out how far you want to go first! As a suggestion, start with the standard inlet set-up, see what sort of power you can make reliably etc. - then look at your custom intake.
Actually - I don\'t think that many people have experimented here with custom intakes on turbo engines to my knowledge? PLEASE correct me if I\'m wrong! :)
.ps Is the tube frame drag car rotary powered?
glen the space frame chasis my mate has a small block chevy with transmision brake huge drag tyres, launch control module etc etc but his best time last year was 10.8 sec, the cars called bee sting and races in the (wild bunch) nostalgia racing.
however we have a drawing in work from the states of a funny car tubular chasis rated at 5000 break with all tubing dimensions , wall thickness, etc so some of the guys in work are doing a bit on that at the mo for next season.
started cutting tube to length and bending and nogging radius out of the end of tube lengths.
the chasis has breaking points so that the front end of the car breaks of the main chasis and leaves the driver in the cockpit!
its a simple drawing but looks mindblowing
if this engine proves good power this year in the fc, it may end up in the funny car chasis next year
the rotary is lot lot cheaper to tune than the chevy and its lighter
..........
Out of interest, what would it cost to have a triple rotor turbo installed into an FC? (I know there are a hell of a lot of options to go with that so can\'t be answered too accurately?)
Think you will find finding a good 3 rotor is the biggest problem, not to many of them made and even fewer in this country :Yawn
Why bother putting one in an FC?
Quote from: John YorkeThink you will find finding a good 3 rotor is the biggest problem, not to many of them made and even fewer in this country :Yawn
Why bother putting one in an FC?
Well it was purely me wondering :D I was thinking that there would be bigger scope for power thinking that you could get more with three rotors than 2, or at least reliable power - ie 500bhp from a 2 rotor and 500 bhp from a 3 rotor but more for outright power :Talking1 I really dont know you see :confused:
BHP would obviously be the same, but you would get much more torque. Racing Beat make ali plates so you could keep the wieght down almost to 13b weight.
Think what John was saying is a fc wieghs similar to a fd so with the prices of fd\'s these days go with one of them.
Ok I\'ve tidied out some of the uneccessary bits of this thread ... please try and keep this civil and on topic.
Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comBHP would obviously be the same, but you would get much more torque. Racing Beat make ali plates so you could keep the wieght down almost to 13b weight.
Think what John was saying is a fc wieghs similar to a fd so with the prices of fd\'s these days go with one of them.
Ah, yes sorry - i\'m with you now! :yes (I may need telling a few times but I get there in the end! :D ) I actually brought an FC cause I thought there seemed to be far too many FD\'s now, with the rate of import\'s - but I still have the FD of course :mmmm
So with a triple the only advantage is a torque gain? (im getting there :Hammer )
Sounds like a great project Stu,
Please keep us all updated on how your progress goes :Thumbs-up
Gurj
Quote from: John YorkeThink you will find finding a good 3 rotor is the biggest problem, not to many of them made and even fewer in this country :Yawn
Why bother putting one in an FC?
Apparantly it is an easier and cheaper conversion for the FC than the FD (slightly) FC is slightly lighter so better power to weight and of course, some of us prefer the FC! :Thumbsup!
Stuart - Project sounds cool. Can\'t wait to see the end result. I have an FD running with a 1/2 bridge and very large ports all round, running on Apexi management. I find it drives fine on the street. Even when cruising. You may have to keep the rev\'s up when around town so that it drives smoother but over 2,000 rpm it is fine. And mine idles between 1,000 - 1,200 rpm!! You don\'t get no kangaroo-ing mid bend even if u were to come out of the throttle, so it won\'t spoil your track day fun.
It does drink fuel but hey that\'s the price for big HP!! And you have to keep everything as free flowing as possible. Bridge-ports don\'t do restrictive. I had to ditch my silenced mid-pipe and just go with a straight thru. Car drove so much better after. :driving
Good luck to you mate - just go all out and see what kind of a beast you can create. Customising your intake will give you plenty more ponies when running high boost. All the guys in the US play around with different set ups. Keep us posted with pics.
:cheers
the exaust is straight through with large 4" back box already
ive made a large 100mm dia ali intake pipe and flange to replace the tiny standard inlet elbow that the fc uses
ive opened the exaaust ports up as big as i can go with the inserts still in, when i get in work on monday i will take some pics and post them up.
the upper and lower intake looks very restrictive to me, specially the middle 2 runners
its not a big job to knock one up using 50mm stainless runners and a large tube plenum with std intake flange welded on
it might be easier to just cut the runners of the std plennum and weld 4 alli 50mm runners on to it with flanges made for the ends to bolt straight on inlet ports.
if the std plenum is ali then this could be done
does anyone no if std plenums are ali or some fancy alloy, or as anyone ever tried welding on one?
the middle 2 runners are about 30mm bore max , yet a bridge port is much larger than this in surface area so it would be a bottle neck resticting flow.
so in theory if i used 4 -50mm tube runners this would almost double the volume of air getting from plenum to the 4 bridge ports.
correct me if im wrong anyone,
its just the same principle with any engine with flow and volume, thats why these big power skylines have 100mm ic piping and bigger tubular manifolds
LIM and UIM are sand casted aluminium and weld fine.
superb mate
thats saves a load of messing about making new plenum and flanges etc
im on with it
:cheers
Quote from: DRAGONLIM and UIM are sand casted aluminium and weld fine.
Hi Ross
What size are the bores in these?
I\'d have to check. We\'ve just been having a clear-out and thrown out about 10 LIM!
check some of these frame chasis monsters on this site
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2005/news/whatsnew.html
Stuart, did some searching around for you:
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68042&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10562&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4670&highlight=
http://p210.ezboard.com/faustralianimprovedproductionracingfrm6.showMessage?topicID=366.topic
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28108&highlight=marty+intake (unfortunately the pic. links don\'t work - this engine made over 1000hp on the engine dyno on methanol).
There are plenty more links also.
Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comHi Ross
What size are the bores in these?
13B RE [cosmo] are 42mm [all 4] as against 2x 32mm + 2 x 40mm for the REW, one of the many advantages of a big power twin rotary ;)
cheers glen
there are some pics of a custom made plenum and runners just like i had in mind using the std inlet flanges welded onto the end of new runners
its given me more idea mate and it can be done easily.
nice to see the ausys dont mind doing a bit, they seem a lot more hands on than our lads over here anyway!!! cause it always **** in down here!
the rotary scene out there looks massive mate.
john you said the cosmo runners are 42mm bore so i reckon to make 50mm runners.
im thinking of cutting the four runners of the std plenum, drilling and boring through with 4 equally spaced holes for the 50 mm ali pipe to push in and weld round each pipe, the hardest part will be bending the tube all the same radiuses and making the new inlet port flanges especially the intermediate ports that are together.
if it works 4 x 42mm = total 168mm for cosmo runners
4 x 50mm= total 200mm for custom runners
its worth a try anyway
The Cosmo 13B RE intake set-up is pretty good for making power, this thread will give you an idea: http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21009&highlight=628rwhp
I saw the ports myself, work of art - no I didn\'t get any pics. ;)
Also - some more pics. of that FC (you may have already found): http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7792
Quote from: Glenn ButcherHi Stuart
Actually - I don\'t think that many people have experimented here with custom intakes on turbo engines to my knowledge? PLEASE correct me if I\'m wrong! :)QUOTE]
Hi Glenn, a correction for you as requested
seems to be working well so far
Quote from: antnicukQuote from: Glenn ButcherHi Stuart
Actually - I don\'t think that many people have experimented here with custom intakes on turbo engines to my knowledge? PLEASE correct me if I\'m wrong! :)QUOTE]
Hi Glenn, a correction for you as requested
seems to be working well so far
hehehehe - excellent mate, looks great :)
this should be a usefull thread, i obviously missed something cos all Carl\'s threads are edited out and mike has made mention of keeping it civil...... this is the sort of thing that should be discussed as we can all learn.......
I was tempted to half bridge my TII but chickened out, i wish i had done now, so i will be interested to see how you get on.
Good luck
Dre, i didnt know you had a half bidge, you kept that under your hat, look forward to seeing you on the strip....
I edited my threads,nothing on mikes part.
Regards
Carl
antnic
the work done on your 3 rotor is top notch mate, well done
its nice to see custom work done :Thumbsup!
is it running yet?
here are some pics of std fc plenum and runners with 50 mm tube showing the difference in size from std
note the yellow line is where im gona cut the std runners off and run my new tubes straight down to the ports in one run (ie -no middle flange like std upper and lower runners)
the only thing im woried about is vibration through the full body when assembled so we might have to fab some strenghening brackets up to keep it rigid.
also anyone any ideas what location to weld collets for the injectors on the runners?
should i keep the standard primary injector position ( ie intermediate plate injectors) in the normal place or fit them in the runners?
Looking good, it is running but has some.......... lets say Teething problems.
The throttle body seems to be working fine though.
Carl, since when did you use morse code for your posts?