I will be rebuilding my motor soon and Im going to have a go at porting it.
Does anyone have any templates for a street port ?
also does anyone no what position holes are used for dowelling plates to housings? and what size dowels are used
im gonna stand the housings and irons assembled flat on my jig borer and drill and ream on both sides for dowels to be pressed in.
is this the correct way?
also is it worth milling my rotor tips out for 3mm tips??
the motor is going in a fc for track use only and im using a hybrid t35 roller bearing turbo
Yeah bud ,contact Hayward Rotary...got a whole drawer full of templates and all the other info needed. :WaveBye
do u think he would sell me a plastic template and send it in the post? and where are they based mate
He is one of the registered vendors,just look at the adverts on the top of the screen.Sure he will sort you out. :Typing
I\'m sure Carl might sell you the use (but not rights to) a template - I don\'t know for sure but I suspect streep ports are all very similar. It\'s the extended variants and bridges that are worth the real serious money...
Approx 3-4 weeks time, is the release of the diy-re porting dvd with porting template
If you try to machine your way through the whole of the engine then you will run into trouble as the tool will wander.This is becuase there is no control over the end of the tool at that length.
Regards
Carl
Do you need a dowelled engine for a smallish turboed track car? We dont dowel are drag car, and dont use 3mm seals either, we even used second hand non genuine mazda seals last time! This time its been rebuilt with new Mazda 2 peice seals. Personally I would try and avoid doing anything that is not necessary.
Track cars need to last and are under alot of high rpm stress for a long time.
The need for dowelling is not necessarily present,but the 3mm apex seals are stronger and do not wear as quick if the engine is setup right.
The OEM 2mm seals are also good,but I know where I would go for a track engine.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: Carl...but I know where I would go for a track engine.
Regards
Carl
Mazda UK? :)
Francesco Iannetti actually.(Ceramics everytime for me)
If anyone want\'s some help with porting then I will happily offer advice and try to help them for free.I think that if anyone is keen enough to learn and try to rebuild the own engine and also modify it too that should be encouraged.
Regards
Carl
JayDee??? :evillaugh :evillaugh :Giggle
Quote from: dreJayDee??? :evillaugh :evillaugh :Giggle
Agree...anytime..he\'s the man.. :Thumbs-up
Carl - re-read your post above, it is clear now to me - but wasn\'t initially that you were actually talking about the seals ;)
I also agree about the Iannetti\'s - get what you pay for!
Dre!!!!! :Hammer
Interesting that you should pop out of the woodwork!
Regards
Carl
Yes I probably did not make it too clear about that I was meaning the seals.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: LaeeqAgree...anytime..he\'s the man.. :Thumbs-up
Should be an interesting year then.
I will look forward to all of this racing on the circuit.
How many championships do you think?
Regards
Carl
Quote from: CarlShould be an interesting year then.
I will look forward to all of this racing on the circuit.
How many championships do you think?
Regards
Carl
Dont start with me mate...i can only express my opinion of the people i have dealt with... if i did with you then you will get the same response.....ta ta....
regards
agreed, you only have to look at Laeeq\'s dyno chart. Tried and tested :flamed
what about on the track,in racing?Or track days?
Not poo pooing,just it would be very good to see.
Regards
Carl
Carl, I will be doing some track days later on this year, so i\'ll let you know how i get on.
That is great Dre.
I know that one is being organized that should be good.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: dreCarl, I will be doing some track days later on this year, so i\'ll let you know how i get on.
a Track day is not equal to racing on so many levels.
If you\'re going to treat it as racing then let me know which day/session you\'re in and I\'ll opt for the other one ;)
It\'s clear that there are a growing number of very talented tuners here in ths UK, of whom Jaydee and Carl are two.
Jaydee has built some very powerful engines, will be great when it\'s backed up with some solid performances on the strip.
Carl\'s got a proven pedigree in building circuit racing engines. There are probably a lot of common elements between the two uses but also some very important differences.
Dre - I\'m guessing you were suggesting that Stuart should contact Jaydee about porting templates? If so maybe some contact info would be useful as PMs and Email are not available to non-members? Alternatively, is this a carry-over from the other thread? If so then... *yawn*
Iain
No it\'s not a carry over from the other thread.
I can\'t speak for JayDee. It\'s up to him if he wants to give stuart some basic templates or advise for street ports.
Also, i was not comparing track days to circuit racing. Carl asked me,
"what about on the track,in racing?Or track days?
Not poo pooing,just it would be very good to see."
....and was just stating that track days is what i wanna do.
I\'ll post my best lap times on different circuits if people are interested.
I think that it is good that there are others getting into the circuit track days.
It would also be good to see some more competitors in circuit racing so that rotaries can be developed further in this country.
Think about proper competing Dre,with Jason as your mechanic and tuner you could go far,the possiblities are endless.Racing is where it is at.
Track days\' are not really proper racing as Iain has said,but they do put the car under alot more stress than a dyno or the road.They are useful for developement too.Racing puts a car under even more as you have to be maxing the whole car out all of the time to be competitve.That is not to say that you have to have masses of power,power is nothing without control.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: dre....and was just stating that track days is what i wanna do.
I\'ll post my best lap times on different circuits if people are interested.
I\'m with you there - much more interesting to me than dragging :)
Times would be interesting but be careful not to get spotted by the organisers as they\'ll boot you from the day for running timing equipment (something to do with insurance for non-competetive days).
Some days are listed as \'test days\' - I think you would be fine running official timing gear then but you\'d be mixing it with race cars and it\'s generally less tolerant of the kind of driving I\'m likely to exhibit.
Quote from: CarlThink about proper competing Dre,with Jason as your mechanic and tuner you could go far,the possiblities are endless.Racing is where it is at.
Track days\' are not really proper racing as Iain has said,but they do put the car under alot more stress than a dyno or the road.They are useful for developement too.Racing puts a car under even more as you have to be maxing the whole car out all of the time to be competitve.That is not to say that you have to have masses of power,power is nothing without control.
Regards
Carl
I\'ve not put any figures together but I suspect that a season\'s racing is out of reach for many of us (not including the oringinal purchase and prep of the car). Sponsorship is the key but very hard to get these days even for established racers.
Are there any series open to FDs in the UK? I know the rotary is quite harshly done by by the governing bodies in most motorsport :(
Maybe in a few years time I\'ll be lucky enough to go racing but until then it\'s track days and some training courses I think.
Track days is what it\'s all about. I\'d love to go racing Carl, but with work commitments and the costs involved, realistically it\'s not gonna happen just yet. I\'m still working on setting the car up for track days and have a few more bits and bobs to do before i\'d feel confident pushing it hard on a track. However at the end of the day it\'s my street car so it\'s not stripped out or anything but should still be competative.
Iaint - do you get a timing slip when you do a lap of the nurburgring?
There are quite a few areas that the FD can race in.
I\'ll bet that the amount of money spent on a lot of modded cars is more than the cost\'s to race.Those with the money to mod should be able to get into a club series.
They don\'t have to do every race either.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: dreJayDee??? :evillaugh :evillaugh :Giggle
Quote from: LaeeqAgree...anytime..he\'s the man.. :Thumbs-up
2 mins apart hmmmm
Quote from: dreNo it\'s not a carry over from the other thread.
I can\'t speak for JayDee. It\'s up to him if he wants to give stuart some basic templates or advise for street ports.
So may I ask the point of your first post? You\'ve hijacked this thread and taken it way off topic. :Hammer
Mullins - i just stated that if was getting a track engine i\'d see JayDee.
Harmless enough and quiet on topic don\'t you think??? :xconfused
Quote from: stuart wizyI will be rebuilding my motor soon and Im going to have a go at porting it.
Does anyone have any templates for a street port ?
also does anyone no what position holes are used for dowelling plates to housings? and what size dowels are used
im gonna stand the housings and irons assembled flat on my jig borer and drill and ream on both sides for dowels to be pressed in.
is this the correct way?
also is it worth milling my rotor tips out for 3mm tips??
the motor is going in a fc for track use only and im using a hybrid t35 roller bearing turbo
The topic ^^^^
Iaint - do you get a timing slip when you do a lap of the nurburgring?[/QUOTE]
Nope! The ring is classed as a public road........ you will meet all types driving round there from the exotic to coaches :eek AND everything in between.
Racing round there on open days takes some cahoooners and a tow truck parked somewhere close.
The Ring is an experience every petrolhead should go for but, understand unless you go for a dedicated \'track day\' you will drive round there with all types of motorized transport. HTH
Quote from: dreIaint - do you get a timing slip when you do a lap of the nurburgring?
You do on GT4 ;)
The way things are going mine\'s gettin gmore track focussed as time progresses. Not really interested in it looking pretty! Fortunately I\'ve got a 2nd car which, a chance would have it, is a great towing vehicle (4.0l Jeep Cherokee)... nice coincidence or evil scheme..?
Wish we had a circuit here, like Tsukuba in Japan, where we have a certain time to beat for each class i.e. under 1min for anything fast, then sub 58s for the beasts :bandit , etc.....
Would be excellent to get everyone, not just rotaries, to have one default circuit here in the UK to compare times for modified metal and super cars the like. I guess maybe rockingham could become that with GT battle?
Sorry for thread hi-jack,
Paul :burnout
Laeeq doesnt do track days, he does the north circ. :D:p
Fish
Quote from: FishLaeeq doesnt do track days, he does the north circ. :D:p
Fish
Oh you are naughty but...... I like it :WaveBye
sorry to be a bit cheeky with engineering questions carl and I appreciate your attitude to help people who want to have a go, most other people would tell me to get stuffed and think just another tuner wannabe jumping on the band wagon!! trust me this is not the case.
I served my time engineering at holroyds machine tools and rotors and produced rotors from billet for japanese customers for use in engines, this was years ago when I knew nout about rotary engines and had no interest.
Ive played with all sorts of engines for years but the rotary does it for me now!
ive started again in engineering in a high tech tool room with all machines required to probably build every part of the rotary engine! if we could get casts that is.
im not interested in doing foriegners and making money from it, I just wanna build my own engine and do all the work on it myself, if it blows up then start again!! its just a bit of playing about at dinner times for me.
carl could you tell me if you use 3mm side and face or slot drill for rotor tips?
side and face would give better finish, im gonna spin it round in dividing head.
Ive got the car cheap with a blown engine 1990 fc and were gonna lighten the car as much as posible stiffen the shell up make fiberglass pannels bonnet and boot and make anything we can do out of ally to get weight down even more.
300 rwhp is plenty for a car hovering about 1000kg dont you think or should i go for more power, thats why i was thinking gt35 roller bearing turbo for quicker spool, what u guys think?
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
We need to talk Stuart.
Regards.
Carl
when i get the block into work i will ring you carl and we can have a chat, can you supply me with gaskets and oil rings and other bits needed?
Quote from: FishLaeeq doesnt do track days, he does the north circ. :D:p
Fish
Just read your post mate....not so funny at all....in a big rush will be back here on to reply tomorrow......
Glad people can have their laugh on the others expense... :reallymad
L8r
Quote from: John YorkeOh you are naughty but...... I like it :WaveBye
And as for you John i think you had better humer then that mate.......
Getting the thread of Stuart back on track...............................
That would be fine Stuart.
Now can one of the mods close this thread before it ends up in a bun fight again?
Regards
Carl
Hi,
Mod hat on for a minute.
Laeeq please discuss with Fish offline or by PM let\'s not take this thread forther off-topic than it is.
Iain
To end all the the dick wagging on this here forum, by the lil uns who feel the need to pee farther and stronger than the rest of us old people,who think G...created them to be the horsepower kings of ROTARIES and that they can show off their inability to converse with adults in an appropiate manner.....
Let me tell you youngs boys a thing or two.......
a) You are welcome to your opinion as this is an open public forum
b) This thread was started in an honest and innocent manner by a person who needs advice
c) Refrain from your ability to rouse the meanness in people
d) If you have got a problem with any of the members of this club,come forward and get it in the open
e) Your brash attitude only magnifies your shortcomings in experience
f) Before you throw your toys out the cot.......I have been there,done it and got the T shirt.........Ive got more National accolades than what you can shake a stick at,Iv got more International accolades than what you can shake a stick at.
g) Be modest and the world will come to you willingly
h) Am really looking forward to meeting you and exchanging some good engineering ideas
i) Until then,be cool ,be calm and if you cant ,be very careful
From the chronicals of the OLDONE
Agreed, this thread does not need closing. Just requires a mod to clear it of crap posted by Fish and others to bring the topic back on track. A lot of crap posted goes against forum rules - you\'d expect old time users to know of this. :)
Stuart, seems to be an interesting project. I\'m not far from you so if you need a helping hand just drop me a line.
BILLET ROTORS!!! jeez I am still trying to get me scone around that one. Where would you start? what metal would you use? would you heat treat them......
The porting dvd sounds great too by the way.
cheers, top thread.
Quote from: FreddyAgreed, this thread does not need closing. Just requires a mod to clear it of crap posted by Fish and others to bring the topic back on track. A lot of crap posted goes against forum rules - you\'d expect old time users to know of this. :)
Stuart, seems to be an interesting project. I\'m not far from you so if you need a helping hand just drop me a line.
Praat jy van my swaer ? :Typing
I would like to apologise to Laeeq for my post, it was meant in humour. Yes I have a poor taste of it, those who know me can vouch for this.
Lets hope someone can/will help Stuart out.
Fish
Carl with regard to this thread. A engine build is something i\'ll be looking at doing myself before long how would you feel about giving a bit of a lesson with some old housings etc if a few of us were willing to get together at your place and pay for your time?
Kevin
Hi Kev,
I would be happy to do it on a one to one basis for the cost of consumable materials.
Regards
Carl
How you fixed tomorrow?
Only joking Carl, when you\'ve a bit of time in your schedule let me know works not too busy at the moment so i can normally get a day off with just a few days notice.
Regards Kevin
Hi all, I think there was a little bit of misunderstanding a few posts back - which caused a few other posts to go up. Anyways...
Stuart - have you had a look around at the various websites for porting etc. (there are some really good photos here and there).
Don\'t forget that a lot of power can also be made from the exhaust ports and changing their shape too.
As for the billet rotors - I have seen aftermarket rotors in the Japanese magazines, perhaps these could have been some? But as for the performance improvements, I have yet to see anything really substantial as far as power gains or reliability from anyone. The standard/race Mazda stuff appears to be pretty damn good. I\'m certainly not saying that improvements can\'t be made - but more that the Mazda gear isn\'t that bad at all when you look at some of the results people are achieving.
For the 3mm slots on the rotors, my understanding is that it is difficult to do and the main problem in getting it done at your average machine shop is that they are not truly square with the rotor, or that the gaps aren\'t consistent. I believe it has to be done spot on in order to get the most out of putting your 3mm seals in (i.e. 3mm seals will still fail if grove isn\'t spot on).
whe have a 2mm wide norton diamond grinding wheel that can be used to grind the slot out if tolerances are that high, the rotor can be clamped on a spigot in a dividing head which can be clocked true on cetre line to microns to the cente of the original slot.
all i need to know is the exact width ( clearance size for a 3mm tip ie plus .001" example)
once the rotor is clocked true the dividing head is rotated to the other 2 slots.
next time somebody gets hold of a rotor with 3mm tips i just need them to slip block the width of the slot.
The thing is Stuart that the rotors are a nightmare to machine accurately.
The only way to do it really well is to insert 3 mm corner pins too and then they have to be spot on for vertical and then machine for each slot individualy.
The reason for this is because every slot is slightly different on the rotors in positoning.
Regards
Carl
i wonder how they are originaly done?
water jetting or that ultrasonic machining, could also be wire eroded!
ive milled jobs up that have been sent away for water jeting which came back for more machining , they jetted through 50mm thick steel and the slots were less than 1mm wide!
it seems to be common to do it an aus and the states so there must be loads of machine shops doing it unless they do wire or jet the slots out.
All the articles use the term milled rotor tips though
the best way to clock them would be to grind a flat plate the same width as the rotor 2mm slot and stick it in the slot and clock that up in both axis.
thats what we gonna do lad!
Ive seen water jetting, for cutting and is totally awesome
I know how it is done but will chat to you privately about it.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: kev-yorksCarl with regard to this thread. A engine build is something i\'ll be looking at doing myself before long how would you feel about giving a bit of a lesson with some old housings etc if a few of us were willing to get together at your place and pay for your time?
Kevin
Sounds like a good idea ;)