Hi, firstly sorry if this has been covered before. I am looking later this year to be buying a rex and have spoken to my uncle as he has some tuning experiance, Ive told him that most RX7s seem to be running an Apexi power fc if they have an uprated ecu but he currently is running a Motec system in his Galant VR4 and swears by Motec. Can anyone shed any light on why most RX7s go with Apexi and if there are any advantages or disadvantages with each system?
cheers and sorry again if it has been covered but any info will be gratefully received
Ant
Basically the Apexi is a plug and pray ecu, where as the MoTeC needs a lot work for installation and configuration.
Apexi = unplug OE ecu, plug in PFC. Turn on and let it self learn, then take it for proper mapping.
MoTeC = unplug OE ecu, locate the MoTeC in good location. Make the loom up. Then contact people out in either Aus or NZ for a base map to work from.
Yes the MoTeC is a lot better, but it also costs a hell of a lot more.
Fish
(Former MoTeC user)
Easy one this,
The apexi is circa £400 + fitting and tuning. Most tuners on here can tune this.
The MOTEC will be several thousand pounds and I don\'t know of anyone that will have much experience with it and rotaries in the UK as far as I am aware.
Apexi wins every time for normal cars, if you want t dedicated full on track or drag car then maybe the MOTEC would be worth the extra cash.
cheers for the info guys, would you not trust a tuner that maps motec systems on piston cars to do a good job on an RX 7?
Probabaly not to be honest tuning a rotary should in my opinion be left to a rotary tuner.
ok cheers guys. Would you say that the Apexi is the one to have then or are there any other choices that are in the same league?
The apexi is the one to have really, all the major tuners in the UK can work with it.
Ok thanks allstaruk.
Motec kicks the ass out of apexi.
We have one of our own cars running on a plug and play loom and we are in the process of back to back dyno runs apexi against motec looks like its picked up 20hp so far. Car is noticebly smoother than on apexi.
only down side is cost about 4 x the amount of an apexi but so worth it if you can afford it.
might be worth looking at an M4 price is half M800 but dos based software and no further development to be done on it but hardware is of the same quality as M800.
Geff
So does that mean u will be looking at mapping Motec in the future then? Also would you say that Motec is more reliable as ive read a few threads on here about having Apexi and stalling and ideling poblems?
From what I understand as Rich (RE Worx) has said, the MoTec is one of the best ECUs on the market, however it is costly and fewer users over here, saying that you have plenty of other options:
Haltech
Microtech
AEM (the US boys have really started to rave about them)
and I believe Autronic (who are run by a MoTec designer) have a suitable ECU also
Cheers, has anyone on here run any of these other systems to say what is better than what etc..
cheers
we are motec dealers so yes we do install supply and map motec ecu\'s.
Geff
May as well jump in :)
MoTeC is simply the best product on the market for our types of vehicles. For an FD, if you want to keep powersteering, A/C, other bibs and bobs then you will probably need to go for an M800.
All of the software is free to download and play with yourself from //www.motec.com.au - it is simply brilliant.
Have a look at things like the compensation tables for things like:
Air temp comp
Engine temp comp
MAP comp
Fuel temp comp
Gear comp
the list goes on, this is just a hint of what its potential is.
You can log everything also to keep a close eye on what is going on with the engine etc.
BUT - to get the most out of it, you do need to spend the money on sensors etc. and the configuration of it all. It really does depend on how serious you want to be with it.
This is why products like the Apexi are very good, as they do everything you need to get your car running, and running hard ;) in many cases!
In Oz it is one of the most debated things on the forums, most people are coming round to the fact that you get what you pay for. It will keep being debated for some time yet!
Cheers for all the feedback, very useful.
I\'ll be getting Motec soon (ish) :)
I\'ve been spending a bit of time mapping an FD with the M800 and absolutely love it!
Think the ECU will double the value of the car ;)
If I had the spare cash to throw at the FD I would definitely go Motec.
Played with the software available and it is all very impressive stuff. :)
Any of the Reworx crew who are responding on this thread able to tell the approximate cost of the Motec units?
Quote from: maximtaylorI\'ll be getting Motec soon (ish) :)
I\'ve been spending a bit of time mapping an FD with the M800 and absolutely love it!
Think the ECU will double the value of the car ;)
Me too :InLove (love it - that is).
the number plate on the rx8 is a bit of a give away Glenn :Giggle
incidently the fastesdt circuit car in Japan a skyline has a power fc.
But those steriod fed Datsun Cherry\'s are so basic. :D
Fish
Quote from: FreddyIf I had the spare cash to throw at the FD I would definitely go Motec.
Played with the software available and it is all very impressive stuff. :)
Any of the Reworx crew who are responding on this thread able to tell the approximate cost of the Motec units?
All the Motec prices are n my site
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Motec.html
Quote from: RE:WorxMotec kicks the ass out of apexi.
We have one of our own cars running on a plug and play loom and we are in the process of back to back dyno runs apexi against motec looks like its picked up 20hp so far. Car is noticebly smoother than on apexi.
Hi Geff,
Was that power through the mid range due to the extra resolution or top end?
I should be playing with a AEM soon, it looks like it has alot of features>
Jason
So with all the bells and whisles fitted and tuned in how much is the package then Max--anyone. £4000+ ?????? or more.???? :wave
Most of the way through Jason, and on a fairly quick tune, not fully tidied up yet :)
Have fun with the AEM!!!! Software looks like it\'ll take time to get used to.
Quote from: JayDeeHi Geff,
Was that power through the mid range due to the extra resolution or top end?
I should be playing with a AEM soon, it looks like it has alot of features>
Jason
If we get time thurs hoping to run back to back will post dyno sheets if we do J.
It would be interesting, if you can get someone brave to hold a timing light on the car and set the ignition the same on both ecu\'s to see if there is any difference in the readings.
Quote from: RE:WorxIf we get time thurs hoping to run back to back will post dyno sheets if we do J.
the ignition map is exactlly the same in both ecu\'s will have a go with timing light during power run to see if they are the same. motec seems to hold 100% steady when timing check whereas microtech is all over the place haven\'t really tested apexi.
Geff
Cool should be interesting, I\'ll have to log on from Cuba tomorrow to find out the result:-)
Do you have to zero in the timing like the haltech?
Jason
Been a bit of discussion on MR2 sites about Motec v\'s power FC and conclusion was Motec is the daddy and in the MR2 case only about £700 more expensive (on older AFM cars) so becomming quite a consideration for alot of people.
A few comments from those running the motec and had previously run power FC was that there are far better mappers out there that only deal with motec. Almost a graduation thing, start out tuning with unichips, power fc etc then with experience move to motec and cease to work on anything else. Don\'t know how true this is but a local company that maps WRC mitsu\'s, now only map motec\'s and it isn\'t a company that was previously mentioned. ?
So what I gather the Motec offers greater resolution? so the Apexi uses a 20x20 resolution what does the Motec give?
Also in the MoTeC ball park is Pectel and Bosch.
Blitz, depends on the model you buy, but the recommended M800 does 40x21 then add all the additional compensation tables on as well.
Brochure (http://www.motec.com.au/m800io.htm)
Fish
That dyno sheet will be interesting.
So from reading the descriptions on http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/ECU_s.html would you say that the M4Pro would be the daddy as the others seem to have things that probably wouldnt be needed on a twin rotor?
Also anyone who is in the know, would it be worth fitting this to a standard car and if so would you expect any power gains?
cheers
Ant
you would get very little power gains from a stock car, not worth it imho.
Just looked up old motec bill and my m800 set up has cost £8559.28 with all the sensors etc, not fitting. So add it up carefully.
That is a lot of cash!!!
Its got the ADL digi dash and so was expensive, but worth it when done. But it soon adds up with all the sensors etc. Just dont buy a Motec, work out all needed first. And make sure you get a quote for the install, not an estimate, as my estimate was 6k fitting but was invoiced for 9k, they forgot 3k of materials.
Quote from: g11aryIts got the ADL digi dash and so was expensive, but worth it when done. But it soon adds up with all the sensors etc. Just dont buy a Motec, work out all needed first. And make sure you get a quote for the install, not an estimate, as my estimate was 6k fitting but was invoiced for 9k, they forgot 3k of materials.
I don\'t understand how thats so expensive, an M4 installed on on MR2T inc mapping is Under 2K thats including new sensors as AFM gets ditched for MAP etc
Dont take much
ADL £2700
79 pin connector £ 100
ADL logging £1000
M800 £2000
M800 Adv tun upgrade £300
Single lambda support £500
Dual lambda support £200
2x thermocouple kit £140
2x Thermo amp £200
2X5 bar sensors £100
Can cable £150
can inferface £50
2x bosch connectors £40
3x bosch engine temp sensors £65
2x bosch fast lambda sensor £225
M800 crimps £300
M800 12 cyl support £300
Soon adds up
are all the sensors bought from motec or are they just general sensors? if you know what i mean?
cheers
most motec with some bosch parts
Dont forget that on most piston engines you can get away with lesser models. The main thing you need is the outputs and software to run a stepper motor for the oil injection.
I ran an M48Pro (on a subaru) for over a year, and loved it. It just gave so much extra refinement over the PFC, proper boost control and the closed loop lambda saved loads on fuel.
Fish
Yeah thats another thing, my uncle is running MoTec on his galant with about 370bhp and he still gets 30mpg (off boost) well, so he claims.
The first Motec I used gave me more power and much better fuel economy, but most aftermarket ecu\'s will do that if mapped
cheers for all the info everyone has put on this thread it been very useful!!!!