i was talking to Ralph at who works at vehicle buyers japan and was telling me that a motec ecu is the way to go, has anyone got one of these or know much about them?
cheers
A Motec M4 will run a rotaryt engine, but you will also have to run the OE ECU at the same time to control other functions.
If you want the version that controls everyting you need to look at the M800 which is more than a couple of grand.
There are a few people out there that are running the M800, it takes lots of mapping.
Even the M4 has gotta cost more than a couple of grand for the ECU plus fitting. From memory the ECU is about £1200 then fitting takes a lot of time as I said above they have to wire it in with the OE ECU for the OMP, air con. and other bits.
You can get good results from the Apexi, Microtech and Haltech ECU\'s, which all cost a hell of a lot less.
If you go for a Motec, youd be best to get the loom made up in Aus. as they know the Motec on rotary FD\'s really well.
Dan
have a motec M800 with adl (digital dash) cast £8500-9000 supplied, also have an M4PRO cost above 3k supplied and fitted, prob the best ecu in the world, (most Le Mans cars run them) you name it you can prob do it, its piggy backs standard ecu as at the mo it will not do oil metering but that is only software which motec say will be sorted soon.
Motec is dearer to buy but cheaper to add to, if you bought apexi, then added data logging, then added traction control Motec would work out cheaper. Also Motec you cann add endless sensor combinations, it will tell you how many G\'s pulling, drawer a map of the circit just driven, tell you where you broke into the corner, where you accelerated out of the corner, how much lift on the susspension going round corners, how much of a steering lock you used, it will even imobilise you car. Its endless. Could even have the logging sent straight to the pits or anywhere in the world while you race.
Actually Gary, the PI research race ECUs are the very best. Bosch also make some very good race units that, for example the corvette team use. Things like dedicated DSP for knock sensing and other stuff. The PI unit is £10,000 before you add the SW and has code crafted for your application.
But back in the real world, motec are very very good. Shame the mark-ups here are so high compared to the home market.
Bill
Bill, what are your thoughts on the Pectel range of ECU\'s?
Dan
Just go Apexi.
This statement will have a little more weight when I have a 500hp car to back it up.
Oct 12th.
oooooohhhh!!!!!!!
I trust this is not just pub talk figures then Ross ;)
Look forward to seeing it - and what has been done to it as well. Is this a jap pre tuned buy?
Spill some beans Ross, you know you want to :)
Regards
Max
Presumably its the Veilside thing he\'s on about; T78 isnt it Mr Rotors?
Having been in Phils with 410 at the wheels I can kind of imagine how quick it\'ll feel. Should scare a few people at the strip :D
Hopefully Phils home grown(!?) will make 500 atw some time in the near future...
R.
I would n\'t take credit for something done in Japan, this one is completely made in the UK, I ported the engine last week and it should be built by tomorrow nite. It will have a T66 with all the extras, custom ignition set-up, custom fuel system, and everything will be installed perfectly and polished up. It should look as well as it goes.
I have the Veilside car coming which is meant to be 635ps, I will reserve judgement until it arrives although it has some amazing kit on it, biggest intercooler I have seen, Trust oil coolers, Ap Brakes etc.. It is good to bring high power cars in from Japan to see some of the jap secrets.
QuoteOriginally posted by Evil Rotor
It is good to bring high power cars in from Japan to see some of the jap secrets.
Yeah, well said that man.
I thought you said yours was gonna b a bit further off. Cant wait to see her at the strip :wave <- bubye Skyline drivers :D
Interested to see how the snail goes; the \'netics T66 has appealed to me for some time now. Q trim I hope? ;)
Lets hope the coming 12 months continue to take the Rotary forward over here...
Good stuff Ross.
R.
Yes Q trim and all the rest of the options, this isnt my car it is a customers car.
Dan,
Pectel is PI research (and I think the name has changed again). I haven\'t looked closely at the specs of the \'affordable\' units only the esoteric stuff, mainly because that\'s what I\'m interested in, if only to get ideas for the code on my own car.
The problem is with any ECU choice is, until you have really played with electronic managment for a while, you don\'t know what you actually need and want to get your car to behave exactly the way you want it.
Bill
They recommend the T6 ECU costing about £2k, plus 3 days with the car.
I know that the T6 is a very good ECU, as some friends have choosen this over the M800 from Motec. One of these guys is a real techie, who has some strange ideas at times but knows his way around ECU\'s almost like I surfing... ;)
Dan
Just found this thread.
My two pennies worth...
This debate will rage on forever - you should read some of the threads in //www.ausrotary.com about this :)
As for the range of ECU\'s, you get what you pay for. If you want virtually no limit on plug ins/add ons etc. then the more expensive units are obviously going to be better. BUT - most importantly you need to find people who know what they are doing with the units, and this type of knowledge either comes from many years of experience, or someone who is just really clever, or both.
We are spoilt for choice here in Australia, as - for all the ECU\'s there are REAL experts around who can install them and tune them.
There are many many debates going around as to which unit is best: Microtech/Haltech/MoTeC/Autronics/EMS the list goes on.
I have an extra luxury with knowing Ezio at //www.cityperformancecentre.com is good with every one of them, and it doesn\'t matter what is thrown at him - he\'ll be able to work it out.
Just this weekend past, there were a few problems on John Stein\'s 1st gen. RX-7 running a PI dash/logger - and Ezio found the problem. The car also runs an M800 ECU which Ezio installed/tunes etc.
I have asked Ezio about the ECU\'s a number of times, and he strongly recommends MoTeC - there really isn\'t any better in his opinion. There may be other systems around, but the support for them is generally very limited (like for the PI system in Australia - but again it is only a logger, not an ECU).
He has installed, set-up and tuned MoTeC\'s on everything from rotors, bikes, V8\'s, 4\'s, 6\'s (he did //www.exvitermini.com \'s 8 second GTR), F3 cars, Racing Trucks, the list goes on. He has also spent 100\'s of ours on the Dyno - not only with MoTeC but many other ECU\'ed cars.
He likes the flexibility of the MoTeC as it is virtually limitless in what you can do with it. It has been used in F1 now also.
But as I have said, people like Anthony Rodriges in Melbourne swears by Microtech - so it can\'t be all that bad as he tunes it on the worlds fastest 1/4 mile RX-7 (Siguel Racings). And Microtech is getting better all the time.
My choice is obviously MoTeC, as I have spent most of my adult life looking and seeking out the best rotary racecar builders. Most of them prefer MoTeC - as it can do it all. But at a price (again - you get what you pay for!). AND prices between Australia and the UK are now suprisingly close.
.ps The software has now been written for the Oil Metering Pump on a rotary (I\'m finding out more from Ezio on this - will keep you all posted).
Hi glen, thanks for that info on oil metering thats the one thing that Motec said they were working on that I have been waiting for.
When I bought Motec 8 weeks ago oz wanted £5500 I paid close to £9k form reworx uk. not so close.
Gary,
Interesting - what was that actually for? (what addons etc.?)
Nine Grand!!!!!!!!!! I hope its £8300 better than an Apexi.
dont know for sure as i cant get a invoice, but from memory, m800, adl, 2 wide band sensors, 2 egt, ?
For the time being I am having to go Apexi, but it WILL change next year.
By then I should have some good fuel/ignition maps for using on whichever I choose (heading towards Pectel at present).
Dan
Matt, FYI (not sure if you\'re an FDUK guy too or not):
f u havent seen:
Be careful ! (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/fduk/message/38431)
my membership is still pending, be careful of what?
Matt I think you were supposed to click on the link where it says be careful.:)
rgds
yeah i clicked it, but it wont let me read the article as my membership is still pending.
Try this one Matt:
VBJ information (http://www.skylineowners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2805)
R.
thats really weird, whats happened to them?
i went up there on sat night to look at the cars and i wondered why there was nothing there and the road blocked off.
I did make initial contact with Motec UK regarding looking a different business model for dealing with owners clubs. They were very interested but I didn’t pursue it at the time. But if 5 people were interested in a Motec setup I would be able to get significantly better pricing, especially on things like the loom, which usually is batsrad costly for some wire.
Other option is to get someone to bring the HW over in their hand luggage. Motec don’t care about this as long as they sell the ECUs
Hi Bill,
It is funny - the loom itself is actually quite cheap. It is the making of it to suit your car that costs (labour/connectors/heat shrink). And it is best to get the proper heat shrinking done also (the stuff they use in the forces).
I got in trouble a while ago with MoTeC UK and Oz for saying that I could get stuff cheaper from Australia - as MoTeC UK pay the duty and all the other odds and sods to get them into the country.
This was around 24months ago.
Actually - the anoying thing about it all was that no-one really knows their stuff in the UK with MoTeC on Rotaries.
So I think it is completely fair enough that you can source a complete package from another country - as they will be able to support you across countries no problems.
I think a bit of politics was involved in MoTeC somehow - as I also heard this happened in the US.
Sorry Glen, should have said \'wire is cheap\' but the loom is labour intensive. However a lot of that is setup time.
If there is a market amongst the seriously power crazed then I am more than happy to work on getting the core skills developed here at home. Would force me to buy a turbo finally as well :-)
Bill