Has anyone noticed the amount of poor quality FD\'s that\'s coming over recently?
I have been looking for a lower end of the Price scale FD (around the 5k mark) and the amount of Poor cars out there is staggering.
For example i went to see a Bone stock 93 Import at a well known Importers in Liverpool last week, it had 30,000 Miles on the clock and it looked genuine. The car was quite a nice one even though it had a few scuffs from Transit and was not registered (in a raw state) anyway getting back to the subject i took a guy with me who drives an FD every day so knows what one should feel like etc. The sales guy and my Mate went out on a test drive and as i stood watching them pull of it dropped an Apex seal?? Just like that? no Full throttle gear changes or anything silly just a First Change at about 4500 then second gave it a bit to 5500 and when he put the Clutch to change to third it started Missing really badly so he pulled over and it stalled. Game Over. i really thought they where good for 50-60k but i guess there is a bit more to it than that.
This is something else i noticed from 15 cars i\'ve seen, two have been withdrawn from sale due to Major engine faults, 1 was Missing when i got there and the guy was trying to tell me it was Bridge Ported?? 4 had other problems such as Bad Gearbox\'s/Diffs etc and that\'s not to mention bits missing or Body damage.
It made me think that people Must be buying these cars? What is it doing to the FD reputation? I\'m not daft and i\'ve owned Turbo 2\'s for a long time and i know you can get good ones and bad ones and if you buy a Bad one it can kick you really hard in the Wallet but what would happen if you where dazzled by the Looks and the "Fast and Furious" Thing!! and just bought a Car that Runs and looks nice? Even to the Extent i was thinking of buying an FD from a guy along way from where i live, i thought to save making two trips i\'d get it AA inspected and ask for them to Comp test it etc. Guess what?? They would not touch the engine let alone put any sort of guarantee on it. The exact expression was they will check the Oil and water but that\'s about it. Nice.
So when all said and done.. from first hand experience if your looking for an FD Ether get one with a fresh engine, Budget for an Engine or Buy from one of the Specialist Rx7 Importers with a good reputation and the best advice would be do allot of reading on what they should sound,Drive and go Like and don\'t be Dazzled by the looks, because they will know you want one anyway you\'ll end up buying it before you even drive the thing it looks that nice.
Its funny, i\'m in a situation where i wanted to buy an FD with a Budget in mind so i had enough for a Rebuild etc but the way its going at the moment I will have to use some of that money to up my Budget to get a Nice car that runs sweet and pray it don\'t go until i save some more cash up for the engine? Becouse the cars i\'m seeing i would not be happy about spending that sort of money on in the first place.
Chris
I think you\'ve hit it on the head, F&F brought the FD to the attention of the UK masses. And sadly the £4-5k cars ARE selling, but mainly to the saxo brigade :( Its knocked the stuffing out of the Rx7 market.
Been saying this for the last 2 years; 75% of FDs that have been imported into the UK are DOGS...that\'ll be why they were flogged in japan then!!
Chances are a cheap FD is cheap for a reason eh...
I agreee, I spent about 6 months on this forum learning about FDs before I took the plunge. Being in Norfolk was handy with Jimmys so near. Went and saw Andrew there who said the same about engine rebuilds etc.
Therefore bought my fairly standard one (apart from exhaust, suspension and dump valve, retrimmed seats) for a high price but definitely been worth it and I havent had the worry of wondering when it will blow up !!
The silly thing is the car cost 33k when new over here, nobody in there right mind should pay 5k for one and expect it to be perfect.
I have a mate with an R32 Skyline and he says its the same, people buy those of ebay for 4-5k then come on the forum saying has anyone got this bit, that bit etc not realising the prices for Skylines are more than for the FD and infinitely more than their Saxo lol Common one for R32s is windscreens, cant get them for love nor money unless its from Nissan and you are talking over a grand.
That said, there are always some bargains around, especially by people who have to sell them quick because of variety of reasons.
Trouble is we all tend to look with our hearts rather than our heads lol
Gareth
Yer as you guys have said, there are so many like this...but at the end of the day you are paying for what you get ... and if you think about...if a dealer is selling at 5 how much has he paid in Japan ? Not right much ... so this leads you to think why the jap owner sold so cheap..and at the end of the day its usally because they have issues...
And the other worrying thing is so many people have jumped onto the import band wagon, with very little knowledge of mechanics..let alone rotaries..so what chance have they got??
So i think the best advice is maybe..to hang on abit long...maybe wait till have have a slightly bigger budget...and go out..buy one from someone who knows rotaries..there are many on the forum who would be able to sort you with a quality one no problems,simply because they know what they are looking for whne buying from japan. ... Freddy...Miguel...Jurgen...and Myself...
Good look with the search
All The Best
Matt
Quote from: MattR..buy one from someone who knows rotaries..there are many on the forum who would be able to sort you with a quality one no problems,simply because they know what they are looking for whne buying from japan. ... Freddy...Miguel...Jurgen...and Myself...
IMHO, from
personal experience over the last 5 years (cars mis-described, numerous additional faults found, undisclosed crash damage etc etc - and coming from \'experts\'!) there are certainly NO guarantees, but paying more and using some one whos recommended gives you better odds...sorry if that sounds harsh, but we (same for the other rotary companies!) get enough imported FDs through the workshop to suggest I\'m not the only one who\'s been \'stiffed\' (shut up OJ) in the past so people should just be aware - same as buying any second hand car, more so.
The plus side of people having imported them to death over the last couple of years is that there are so many in the country now that prices are rock bottom - and there ARE a few decent cars here to be picked up as a bargain - you just need to make sure you dont buy blind - which means getting expert opinion if you are not 100% sure about any thing and buying with an emergency fund available. No one should be under the ellusion that a cheap FD is likely to be a steal, its just as likely to be a wallet killing pain in the butt! Even a car that looks tidy and straight and is going for good money can have expensive issues. These are great cars but as Gareth said above, these were 35-40K supercars cars new - people shouldnt expect them to run for the same as a saxo. To get the best out of them they need maintenance otherwise u r going totally miss what a proper FD is - simlply put - AWESOME :)
I think that a fair amount of blame can be laid at our own feet, how many times have I seen posts "got 4k whos selling there car". If consumers are stupid enough to ask for cars for nothing then to a degree they deserve all they get. Britain has become the dumping ground for cheap 2nds and poor quality crap that no one else wants. Ive seen it have in the tile and bathroom industry. Its happening everywhere and its all driven by us, the consumer, I dont think anyone should have any gripes with it, if you dont want it dont ask or buy it. If no one bought the crap the manufactures and importers would not supply it.
Quote from: MattRAnd the other worrying thing is so many people have jumped onto the import band wagon, with very little knowledge of mechanics..let alone rotaries..so what chance have they got??
I couldn\'t agree more with this. If i had looked further into the RX7 scene before i purchased and had gone to a, how should i put this...... Experianced importer with an in depth knowledge of the car i was purchasing then i may not be in the position i\'m in now. Unfortunatly for me i\'m quite an impluseive person and i tend to buy before with very little thought which is what alot of importers realy on. (by this i mean the people that have just jumped on the band wagon and have no real experiance or knowledge of the cars they sell) and like you said the cheaper 7\'s, and more so the gen3\'s, go to the newer nova generation. I mean come on if your 18 or so and you have a saxo,or similar, and you realise that if you sell your car shed sorry saxo for £3k get a loan of £2k then you have enough for an early FD. This in turn and as it has with impreza market effects the latter models or special edition that are genuinaly worth lots more and they just sit for ages not selling. The attidude of lots of these people are why spend £9k if i can spend £5k? The RX7 comunity is a very closely nit comunity and most outside (ie the MAX POWER type people) are unware that on the whole its worth spending more to get a good clean example (don\'t get me wrong it\'s not the case with all of them)
What i\'m trying to say, i think, is that people are happy to buy them in shoddy condition or cheap because most people know some who can do a nice cheap respray for a fresh lick of paint and bosch your the talk of all ya mates innit coz i got me a REX 7 and it Banging wicked BRUV. These are what the band wagon jumpers realy on and so long as people keep buying the cheap shoddy ones they will keep bringing them in
The thing is its not just the fact there are Hundreds of Realy poor cars out there but there getting sold!! which means the nice genuine cars of say 7k and above Don\'t. You only have to look at Autotrader to see this (there are lots of 5k cars and they sell quite quick anything above seems to take a long time selling)
Its only two months down the line when your £4500 car has no engine in it and a 3k bill looming that you wish you\'d taken the 8k car.
The mad thing is if you knew nothing about Rotarys the cars for sale at 5k look ok, low mileage, alot have wheels, suspension etc? I can see why alot are apealing to the Chav eliment. I think there is a bit diffrent way of looking at buying a Third gen than the std Buying a used car Guide. For example checking the Oil and water then starting it and listening for Knocks and looking for blue smoke??
You know what scared me into saving some more cash. I comp tested the Seven that let loose on test drive, it was an even mid 6 on all sides of both rotors. If a comp test won\'t save you then maybe you should have the engine money ready no matter what level car your buying??
Also while i\'m on Imports, When you import a car do they test it etc in Japan? i know they do a Body check and stuff like that? Is this also a risk you take?
What can you say Supply and demand. But it makes the Rx7 Market a mine field.
On a serious note though i did think about buying one that was a runner with good mileage and Body work then getting it Trucked to My local Rx7 Specialist and get a nice new engine and a Power Fc fitted.
It would have to be the only way i\'d buy a Cheap Third Gen. At least that way i\'d know exactly what its had done and when.
Quote from: GrizzlyAlso while i\'m on Imports, When you import a car do they test it etc in Japan? i know they do a Body check and stuff like that? Is this also a risk you take?
Well yes, most importers go off the auction inspection sheet when buying... this is the cheapest easiest option... but you take massive risks.. i learnt my lesson the hard way by doing this..
By from my point of view now.. i am using a new agent..a good friend of mine... and one of the main things i was making sure he was able to do was go to the aucs and go through the cars... i know the lad has very good knowledge of mechanics s i can trust his judgements... Makes buying a lot safer... i also get 40-50 pics and a vid of the car.. so for any potential buyer is a great advantage..
But worse case senario they car does have even the slightest of faults.. i would not be happy selling it like that...iv been in the motor trade 25yrs..and now have a good knowledge of rotaries.. so i know what is right..
But another thing..i dont sell my cars in Autotrader.. my cars are either on the forum or in mags.. I dont think Autotrader is the best way to sell any more..beacuse as you say..theres so much crap on their...
It really is ashame.. i just hope the market for earlier rxs doesnt get as bad as the scoob wrx market!!
Just abit of info for you there lol...
Cheers
Matt
When I bought mine 5 years ago I was looking for an exclusive and interesting sports car than would hold it\'s value well and provide years of exciting motoring.
Well I got what I wanted on two counts but it\'s a shame the way the FD market has gone with all the cheap clocked and accident damaged RX-7\'s brought over in the last few years.I\'ve been too look at some 4-5K examples for friends and without even getting up close have walked away,remember a silver one with not one straight panel gap on the whole car! a black one where the engine would not last as long as polo mint and another that was just dangerous and would chuck you backwards through a hedge at the mere thought of a corner.There are a few decent examples to be had but these are few and far between.
You just cannot expect a 30K plus supercar to be bought and run on a budget,full stop.We ended up importing a lovely standard 1996RS at double his original budget from a respected importer and the cars been faultless,only requiring general servicing and TLC.
Only good thing I can think of is that for all the bad ones that are being scrapped due to excessive repair bills is that they\'ll be plenty of spares to keep the good ones running!
James
Great topic this,
As most have said you get what you pay for, a chap knocked at my door and said "is your rx7 for sale" so i said how much you got to spend?
Dude says "i\'ve got £6k in cash" :WaveBye :WaveBye
I pointed out to him for that price you wont get a rx like mine but can actually get a rx but it wont bring much joy if you dont do your research, gave him the MRC link but haven\'t seen him sign up ? So he will probably end up with a dog rx7 from Keighley trade or something :2eek
Quote from: MattRWell yes, most importers go off the auction inspection sheet when buying... this is the cheapest easiest option... but you take massive risks.. i learnt my lesson the hard way by doing this..
Bizarrely the best FD I have ever imported was just bought off the auction sheet via autosquare - and its still the best 1992 FD Geff or I have come across to date - but then I paid good money for it and didnt make any thing on it, probably lost a few quid.
TBH, any FD is a lottery to a degree - some are more of an obvious liability than others though! Personally I would discount any thing written about a car for sale other than the obvious stuff u can confirm yourself like aftermarket bits fitted. There are loads of FDs with dodgy clocks for sure - there really arent that many genuine low mileage cars no matter what people tell you. I would say if there isnt a historical paper trail with the car to take the mileage with a pinch of salt unless is obivously in delivery mileage condition.
If you are buying an FD to be top of the local chav frat then go by any p.o.s. and you wont be far disappointed. If you want an FD cause of their pedigree and performance PLEASE get a decent one - get some one who knows what they should feel like to drive for definite - SO many FDs in the UK handle like a bag of ****, arent as quick as they should be - or dont stop any thing like they should - and theres just no point buying such a car unless u want to built up a good one from scratch. Bad and good FDs are really like chalk and cheese...
HTH, sorry for another rant but some of the cars people buy unawares are shocking and theres no need for it :(
Remember when I was looking last year.
The first car I saw was a Montego blue type R. The guy wanted 9k for it but it was more fitting for the 5k p.o.s bracket. Engine aside every bit of the car was a dog. Funniest part on the test drive was the guy telling me the brakes had just been replaced. I start breaking for a turning where I\'d normally start braking in my FTO and the car just sails past the junction....lol.
The other good one was the 3rd to 5th gear change to see if the synco\'s were knackered and it wouldn\'t go into gear. "oh its near done that before" the guy says. :flamed
So my 1st contact with RX7\'s could have easily put me off and I was considering keeping the FTO until Gurj says check this one on autotrader.
Made the long journey to West Wales and instantly had a good feeling when I saw the car. Guy very geniune. His test drive did scare the s*** out of me but I had an ear to ear grin. Icing on the cake it had a full engine rebuild by Pip. Touch wood to this day the car has been faultless except the general wear and tear issues associated with any car.
Personally I wouldn\'t take the risk of buying an import without seeing it first. I guess its ok if you have plenty of money to throw at it if things go wrong.
Buying privately or off a reputable trader takes some of the risk out of buying blind so I\'d always go with this option. As with all things in life you get what you pay for so you just have to weigh up what is best for your personal circumstances.
Right thats taken up some time, only another 2 hours before we finish, woohoo :wiggle
Interesting reading, see the name of the certain trade centre, thats got a hell of a bad reputation on the MR2 forums, guess why should they be any different for the RX7.
With regard to £5000 cars, there are £5000 cars for sale in the sale section of this forum advertised as having 1500 mile old rebuilt engines and being generally perfect.... ???? I agree there is alot of rubbish about, but it does seem you can get a good one for £5000 but also rubbish for £5000. What I want to know is why is £5000 the apparent base of the market? Surely there must be loads of blown cars out there, nowt wrong except the engine, why are they not up for £3000??
When I have got rid of my MR2T my plan of action is to find any manual R car that is not crash damaged for as little as possible, there must be blown ones available for £3000 somewhere. Then take it to RE:WORK have the engine rebuilt replacing whats needed, no porting or anything, approximate cost £3000?? Full set of the bushes they offer fitted £1000 set of Teins fitted £1200. So having spent £8200 ish and then i\'ll have a car with waranteeed engine and should feel lovely and fresh on all new suspension. For £8200 i could well ask Newera to get me a nice car, however theres nothing to say they engine won\'t go bang no matter how nice it looks, then the car could end up costing me £12000 total. I am I being silly or sensible???? :confused:
my boss won\'t import rx7\'s any more , he\'s been importing cars for 8 years and half the one\'s he\'s imported have died before they sold . part of the problem i think is that they were not looked after on the forcourt .start stop every day as they were put out on display then people getting in them for test drives and thrashing them from cold (i was not working for him at the time)but the finishing touch was while we were in Japan I talked him in to trying to buy one just for something different to have in stock .we found a grade 4, nice wheels, started fine no smoke so we told our agent to bid on it only for it to be pulled out the auction as a non runner !! its not only the public that get cought out sometimes the importers do too.
The market is definately a fickle thing. I bought my 7 for 6250 with no mods and a fresh engine from pips. The only thing that had made me buy it in the end was the engine warrenty. It was clean in and out too. As alot of people have put the importer had the engine blow up on them when they had the car, so they spent 3.5k at pips. I went to the trade centre and have to say the cars they had where terrible when put in perpesctive.
If i was looking for a cheap one now, or even a cheap 1st gen I think after all this time i would probably look for one with a knackered engine and have a go at rebuilding it myself. This is only down to the great stuff i\'ve learned off the club.
If i was new to rotarys, say like the saxo side then i would buy the cheapest i could get and that would have serious consequences.
I think the only thing that has kept the cost of rotaries so high is the higher insurance premiums, it helps to limit the demand for rx7\'s. If they cant insure it they cant buy it :)
Its definately a lottery, thats for sure.
Shaun
Guys Im going to jump in here with my 2p. I currently own an Mitsubishi FTO GPX which I got from a dealer fresh from import. Looking back I got stiffed on the price and I was a bit naive regarding prices and what not. The UK market is now being flooded with low price FTO\'s that are basically falling to bits. The Mivec engines have a habit of going bang if not looked after and this is giving FTO\'s a bad name. Also the price is allowing the chav element to be able to afford one of these and while they are not as high maintenance as the FD they still need a fair bit of TLC which most 18-20 year olds cant afford to give and why there are so many FTO\'s being constantly scrapped.
I\'ve learnt enough in the last 1 year of owing a jap import that the best way to get one is to buy a members car or one from a dealer/importer who is recomended by the owners club. I\'m currently looking at getting a 3rd Gen 7 and once I can sell my FTO then I\'ll hopefully have around the £7k mark to play with but I\'m quite happy to wait until I see the correct one unlike alot of people who will just get the cheapest one they see on Ebay.
Hi folks,
I\'m looking to buy a 3rd gen soon, just as soon as I get rid of the GT4. Really glad I found this site as I was going to get an import on the 5k mark but you guys have convinced me to pay a bit more and get one with a new engine!
Before the GT4 I had a 2nd gen Turbo II but was a bad example and a steep lurning curve, however I loved the thing and really can\'t wait to get behind the wheel of a 3rd gen after hearing you lot salivate over them! I love my RWD cars and the more I read about them...it will be a weekend car so hope it will last me for it\'s life!?
Just got a few q\'s if anyone can help:
What is an FD? is this just a model name? Excuse my ignorance!
Does anyone know the guy behind Super 7 Autos on e.bay? He seems to have some real nice examples with re-built engines and other parts. Just wondered if anybody had any experience with him and if he\'s got a good reputation?
Also, I\'m not that mechanically minded, I thought I was a hero when I managed to get the spark plaugs out on my gen 2! Does owning a good example of a 3rd gen necessitate getting your hands mucky regularly? I see some of you guys run them everyday... I\'m thinking with weekend use I should be ok as I just wouldn\'t know where to start!?
I know they are highly strung, and it\'s a price I\'m obviously willing to pay but my nearest Rex man is in Cheshire - WGT and I\'m in North Lancashire. Don\'t really wanna be trailing down there every 2 mins!
Any advice wouild be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam