I seem to have read a lot about V8 engines lately, and how much the little rotary is slagged off for unreliability, But when you compare a 13b to some hulking great v8, both with bolt on’s and tuning are capable of say 400 bhp, or much more, but when you think how the rotary works compared to a piston engine it makes you realize how special rotary’s are, and in fact how reliable they are all things considered, for instance,
Just comparing pistons rings to apex seals! Both do a similar job, One apex seal is 3inches long, X 6 = 18inches
V8 with 4inch pistons, circumference 12 inches for one piston ring , and they need two compression rings per piston, = 2 feet X 8 =16 foot of sealing surface to get the compression to fire the charge, with another 8 foot of oil control rings!!
Against only 18 inches, in a 13b! pretty amazing really all that power from such a small lightweight 1300cc engine, and certainly cheaper to rebuild than a V8! I know from rebuilding a Buick wildcat V8 over 7000cc!
Just my thoughts!
Bob
not to mention a v8 being 3 times the size of a 13b..looking at them both size for size, the 13b absolutley rips the **** out of a v8 when highly tuned. The only cars ive seen do a wheely on the drag strip are v8`s and rotarys..and with the rotary you cant see the engine poking out the bonnet.The rotary is a remarkable little engine that is highly underestimated
Its all down to less wasted energy, with a conventional piston engine you have a lot of wasted energy because the pistons linear travel has to be converted into rotary motion, hence comparable power from a reletively small wankel engine is achievable.
Ho yes having had both, I recon the up for the V8 are No contest with the sound V8 every time. Pulling power, Much better than the 13B but 20B phooo don\'t know. Size and lump, Rotory every time. Lot going for both. + & - on both sides for me. :god
I think its all to do with translating the Rotary\'s power to weight ratio into better handling and braking.
I dont fancy approaching a hairpin bend with a flippin\' V8 up front, thanks.
Its not ALL about power output and 1/4 mile time.
Lets take a standard FD, then lets take another one, put in a V8 of the same horespower, and lets race round the circuit, thats the real way to compare them, if you ask me.
thing is a rotary doesnt compare without a turbo attached. So a i nice light weight V8 chevy with 400 hp will do many more miles than a mazda, have much more torque and better drivability than a peaky rotary, be much quieter, and be much less prone to those niggly little problems.
I would still take the rotary any day though.
both engines have their advantages ... both have their myths and are overated and underated in some ways.
V8\'s are not all heavy
rotaries are not all unreliable
V8\'s are not all bulletproof and reliable (some of the US lumps are far far from it)
Rotaries are small but rotaries are NOT as light as you may think
some v8\'s can rev harder than most rotaries
etc.
Seen a V8 do a 3 hour endurence and run away from opposition,seen a v8 get a whipping from a ROTOR in a Beetle,seen a v8 attempt the land speed record but seen the same get a whipping from a RX7....horses for courses fellas...but in standard form...like they come from their mother....a v8 is hard pressed to overpwer a ROTOR.. :yes
Ever owned a TVR? LOL.
Its like anything, if you take any stock engine and tune the nuts of it the reliability will suffer.
I think the only reason people use V8\'s as opposed to say a Cossy lump is the Torque gain. If this conversation was taking place in a Pub it could be argued the "tweaked" V8 would make a better car to drive on the road than a "Tweaked" Rotary purely for this reason alone.
But saying all this i would never change the engine in a Rx7 to a boinger because i believe the cars are very well balanced and to be quite honest i like them they way Mr Mazda intended (with a few subtle mods ;) )
Just on the note of wheelies on the drag strip - That\'d be 1 for the "original" aircooled vw engine in 1 street legal convertable beetle :)
Thanks to the sharkman for the excellent photo
(http://www.topendtales.com/images/2004/bug_jam/images/richie_webb_06.jpg)
Quote from: monkey-fd3sJust on the note of wheelies on the drag strip - That\'d be 1 for the "original" aircooled vw engine in 1 street legal convertable beetle :)
Thanks to the sharkman for the excellent photo
(http://www.topendtales.com/images/2004/bug_jam/images/richie_webb_06.jpg)
if i put "that" money into my 2,then id be running 9\'s all day with wheelies as well...getting outa perspective here fellas...we were talking stock ROTOR and stock v8....s :cool
Quote from: monkey-fd3sJust on the note of wheelies on the drag strip - That\'d be 1 for the "original" aircooled vw engine in 1 street legal convertable beetle :)
Thanks to the sharkman for the excellent photo
(http://www.topendtales.com/images/2004/bug_jam/images/richie_webb_06.jpg)
Except the engine is in the back :yes
i suppose it would be a different story with a 3 rotor only adding another 650cc, i think that would see off most V8s! and only another 9 inches of apex seals! i\'m sure we would all like an extra 9 inches! for performance of course!!
Bob
lol...this is great reading...
It\'s bloody VW!!!! Huuuuuuuuuu! :rollin. Please don\'t mention how fast some can go! I know. But look at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right, I am a newbie here, but hopefully in the upcoming weekend, I will be able to pick up a certain Dragon Performance built single turbo FD3S hheheehehhe...[evil grins]
But back on topic, I\'ve owned many cars before and as far as the whole V8 vs. Rotory thing goes I have to say that both do have their good points and bad ones, first off, let me start off with the rotary, as simple as the rotary concept may seem, as there is only 2 moving parts within the whole engine, that also means that it is one of the most complicated, if something minor goes wrong within the engine, the motor will most likely need to be striped. As for the V8, it depends mainly on build quality, take for example the Yamaha V8 found in the Ford Taurus SHO, the weak point in them are the cam sprockets that can come lose over time and slip out of position causing major top to bottom work, but with the cam sprockets welded the car can take alot of punishment within reason. Another V8 would be the all mighty GM LS1/2/6/7 based engine, found in the C5/6 Corvette, 98-02 F-bodies, the current Vauxhall Monaro and a few of the aussie Holdens, the problem with the engines are the fact that GM put so much effort into developing the engine, they ran out of money to produce it, hence the weak pushrods, but as time went along, GM started to find the flaws, revisions began in 2001 when they introduced the cars with better flowing manifolds, and the LS6 intake, well let\'s just say after a while they now have the C6 Z06 which is almost perfect in all means, top notch everything, but I am still wondering when they\'ll start catching on to the point where steel shift forks are needed for the T56 gearbox.....anywhos back on track...
Rotary cars have a more efficient way to burn fuel and by far the most unique way. Also the weight of the engine and the size really helps, being pushed back against the firewall means much better weight distrubution so when it comes to like a circuit sprint I am sure the RX7 will come out on top compared to a evenly matched V8....we can\'t compare the LS1 motor to the 13B REW motor as there is a significant production date difference, hmm so back in 92, chevy still was limping around with the TPI engine....that is definetely hmmmm not quite what we\'re looking for so lets fast forward and give GM a year advantage and say let\'s compare the RX7 to the LT1 GM block say in a corvette....well I would love to see in a 20 lap race how many times the LT1 vette would get lapped say in Silverstone......yes they\'re very clumbsy and heavy engines....so I would say in that challenge the rotary wins. (I did not mention the 93\' Ford 302ci H/O engine because it was simply not worth talking about in my opinion....)
So here comes the sound test, well we all know that the V8s sound very very nice, especially something with long tube headers and a free flow exhaust humming with a lumpy cam....as for a RX7 though they might sound good on idle, lets face it, once they hit high revs they sound like a weed whacker from hell.
So like I said each to it\'s own advantages and if you are looking for performance the rotary wins considering what it\'s competition was. Hope this helps a bit! :)
Freak
Ok freak, a good write up... BUT.
I will never agree that a Rotary is more complicated than a V8, or even a 6 or 4 cylinder for that matter! No springs, levers and timing chains.
There are 3 moving parts by the way, 2 rotors and the eccentric shaft.
As for the sound - its the absolute best sound ever on song, very closely followed by a 2 stroke grand prix bike!!
A V8 to me just sounds big and heavy, which is EXACTLY what it is!!!
:-))
;0.......................
I believe the "VW" is knocking on the door of the 9\'s in street trim...
Is you\'re RX that fast? Mine certainly isn\'t. All cars are cool when tuned and worked well, imho the bug is cool.
Quote from: normskiIt\'s bloody VW!!!! Huuuuuuuuuu! :rollin. Please don\'t mention how fast some can go! I know. But look at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me the photo\'s below show cars as cool as each other, different engines... who cares... from Pro Mod to CCSE to Rotary Drag Cars they are all cool, all sound cool. I don\'t really think it matters what engine your car has, as long as it runs the numbers.
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/98930.jpg)
(http://firewire.co.nz/Images/Gallery/HO4-Gallery/images/Abel%20IBARRA%20(1).jpg)
(http://www.nhraimport.com/2002/events/race01/photos/photo43.jpg)
Why how much money has Richie put in his bug... do you actually know him?
I think if you did you\'d find that most of it was fab\'d up between a group of like minded guys on a Budget.
If we\'re talking stock Rotary engines... then why are we talking about wheelies.... :xconfused
Quote from: oldoneif i put "that" money into my 2,then id be running 9\'s all day with wheelies as well...getting outa perspective here fellas...we were talking stock ROTOR and stock v8....s :cool
One advantage the rotary has is the rev-limit. Generally not that high on big displacement V8s so potentially less time \'in-gear\' for the pistony thing.
Certainly love the sound of some of the V8s - shame TVR moved away from them with the flawed S6 engine. V10\'s sound even better ;)
Quote from: iaintOne advantage the rotary has is the rev-limit. Generally not that high on big displacement V8s so potentially less time \'in-gear\' for the pistony thing.
Certainly love the sound of some of the V8s - shame TVR moved away from them with the flawed S6 engine. V10\'s sound even better ;)
v8\'s are quite nicely balanced engines. make one out of modern materials and the correct dimensions and it will rev its nuts off just like any other engine config
The new generation of F1 V8\'s are already exceeding the rpm limits of the current V10\'s
Quote from: MikeLMRv8\'s are quite nicely balanced engines. make one out of modern materials and the correct dimensions and it will rev its nuts off just like any other engine config
The new generation of F1 V8\'s are already exceeding the rpm limits of the current V10\'s
I don\'t disagree on modern V8s revving higher than older ones but large capacity pistons have inherant issues reving hard. Similar to the limits applied to rotaries revving very high (i.e. weight of the rotors and the materials are as important as the balancing!).
Comparing the very short-throw F1 engines with a normal V8 vs a rotary isn\'t a great comparison either! One major factor with the F1\'s high rev limit is the fact that the pistons only travel a small portion of the distance of a normal piston but have a large surface area IIRC - means a lot of power with relatively low torque and nothing lower down the range.
are rotary engines really high reving though ? devide the shaft rpm by 3 to get rotor rpm and the rotary is a lazy torque monster of an engine ;)
Out of interest what is the comparison between the average velocity of a rotor tip at the extreme maximum (say on a 6 second drag car) compared with a piston ring in a similar application ?
Quote from: MikeLMRare rotary engines really high reving though ? devide the shaft rpm by 3 to get rotor rpm and the rotary is a lazy torque monster of an engine ;)
Out of interest what is the comparison between the average velocity of a rotor tip at the extreme maximum (say on a 6 second drag car) compared with a piston ring in a similar application ?
Always thought the rotor/eccentric speed was 2/3 of the output shaft not 1/3?
From the little I\'ve read about this the problems with the eccentric deforming under high RPM can only be partially solved with clever balancing and needs to be dealt with by saving weight on the rotors and using the right materials which would make it very expensive.
I guess that the same goes with the tips and corner seals - need to withstand high g-forces at big rpms.
If I recall correctly Carl mentioned he can build a customer engine that\'d rev to 10krpm for a price...
I think part of it is using a Billet Eccentric Shaft and they alone cost a shed load of money.....
I think they are around $2500 AUD :yes
When i started this thread, The main reason was to compare the following=
One apex seal is 3inches long, X 6 = 18inches
V8 with 4inch pistons, circumference 12 inches for one piston ring , and they need two compression rings per piston, = 2 feet X 8 =16 foot of sealing surface to get the compression to fire the charge, with another 8 foot of oil control rings!! making a total length of sealing surface 8 YARDS!
Against a total of only 18 inches! OF APEX SEALS in a 13b!
No valves Tappets or cam belts or camshafts, or timing chains or tensioners, half the plugs! I think the rotary engine is incredible, (ok they may need a rebuild after 12 years, but for the end result, worth every penny! )equal power to a v8 but higher revving, and in a fabulous car.
Bob
what about the side seals and oil seals on the rotary ?
(QUOTE)what about the side seals and oil seals on the rotary ?(UNQUOTE)
Well i don\'t know how long they would be, but allow a couple of yards of side/oil seals i guess, Still six yards short of the seals needed on a v8! to do the same thing.
Also no con-rods,no enormous crank! big ends, small ends, much less mains bearings,Dizzy! is there a dizzy?scrap that! getting picky now! Rotary rules for me, even N/A and is the way in the future,IMHO.
Bob
Hi guys - great thread.
Have a read through this when you have a couple of hours - some VERY interesting reading and heated debate! ;)
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31549&highlight=rotary+versus+piston
I\'d never consider anything but a 13B in a 3rd Gen RX-7, as without major surgery, it won\'t handle well with a large increase of weight in the front.
By the same token though, some V8\'s are truly awesome. Some time ago I was lucky enough to be lent a Ferrari 355i GT-S for the day... The sound that V8 made with a special exhaust system fitted was probably the best I\'ve heard on any car I\'ve driven!
Right now, I\'m completing a build of a very special AE86 Corolla with a full 4AGE 200 bhp N/A race engine. I did consider dropping a 13B engine into it, which would have made a very quick drift car, but I didn\'t...
Why? - Because I believe for the most part, a car\'s better with the original lump meant for it. It takes a huge amount of effort and resources to design a car and it\'s components well so it handles optimally, so to try and develop an engine conversion and optimise handling, etc. oneself afterwards will at best devour a lot of time, trial and error. There comes a time when you just don\'t want to put that amount of resources and energy into a road car. Just my 2p worth - to add t the debate :D
Nice little vid here.. ROTARY POWER BABY :wiggle
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7478425524329074458&q=%22V8PushrodMullet+Ownage%22+playable%3Atrue
brilliant link, thanks again Robbie
Bob
no problemO my friend :cheers
i have just read this thread how many of you have driven a good v8 (not a 1956 design rover) my gen 3 fitted with a ls1 v8 does over 25mpg (30+ on a run) 70 mph is only 1600 rpm !,i do agree the rotary is a brilliant motor some of us just like the sound and the instant responce it gives. as for going into a corner with "a big v8 up front" they are all ally these days you know, mine is on std rx7 fron springs!! and it will pass an usa emision test after 100,000 miles .I have driven a few rotary powered cars and was inpresed by the power for a std car but horrified at the fuel they used and as far as reliability goes mine had done 67,000 miles when i got if funny enought with a scrap motor . any rotarys out there with over 400 ft lb of torque at 1900 rpm. one last thing you can buy a engine and gear box for the price of a rotary rebuild cheers craig
craig any pics and details of ur ls1 rotary..is it 3rd gen and who did all the work...wld be very interested in pics and details.i know the small block chevy engine fits but the ls1 is a much better engine..email p.brian@fsmail.net when u have a moment with pics etc incl interior as i assume it has to be butchered a bit for the gearbox..thk paul
Maybe this V8 would be light enough for a rex..
click (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5321100141757542472&q=blown+v8)
whats the handling like? being as i live by birmingham, would you mind me having a blast round a few twisties by my house just to compare it to mine (presuming it`s a 3rd gen fd). i would rarther do it in the summer now though when the tar is hot and stickie. Mine still has the standard suspension. I wonder how much heavier the v8 is compared to the 13b and how much is the 50/50 weight distribution thrown off with the v8 in??
Mazda\'s talented motorsport engineers got so ticked off with other manufacturers questioning the rotarys reliabilty and power that they decided to enter the LE MANS 24 hr race to prove tham all wrong,alot of other teams had a \'dig\' saying the car would never finish but the 787B had the last laugh,the piston engined cars just could not match the 787B\'s speed down the straights and combined with superior handling the car trounced them all gaining the rotary a new found respect in the process.
If I was going to build an all out race car and the choice was V8 or rotary power,I know which my choice would be...... :WaveBye
the thing is though reliability is def not the rotarys strong point.what car can require without fail or question a rebuild at least once before 100,000 miles and consider the amount of rotary cars in the uk and then see how many have not had a rebuild i think it would be a very interesting percentage figure.the yank v8 is an awesome engine straight out of the box and there is a very old saying(old like me)u cant beat cubic capacity.a yank v8 in a fd3 will give awesome perf/good mpg/less emmissions and if u check on the other side of the atlantic some superb cars with very similar weight and distribution figures as the rotary now the only diff is costs.if paying someone the conversion all in wld be around the 10,000 mark all in all prob the cost of 3 rebuilds for the rotary.but if handy with a spaner the there are companies that supply all the bits and for about 5 grand u will have a excellent powerplant and not have to worry about water temp/oil temp/apex seals/side seals/water seals/knock/ etc etc etc
Quote from: rx7veilsidecraig any pics and details of ur ls1 rotary..is it 3rd gen and who did all the work...wld be very interested in pics and details.i know the small block chevy engine fits but the ls1 is a much better engine..email p.brian@fsmail.net when u have a moment with pics etc incl interior as i assume it has to be butchered a bit for the gearbox..thk paul
[/QUOTE]the small block chevy engine fits but the ls1 is a much better engine..
all chevy engines are good engines for torque and horsepower,the ls1 is just a modern day chevy motor with more electronics on it... so you cant say its a better engine...than the old school sbc 5.7,as both engines can make serious bhp and torque...how many sub 10 sec cars use the ls1...non as they all use the 1955- sbc engines,besides that they are a lot cheaper to build and buy than the ls1...
i guess its horses for courses...and how big your budget is...all i know is mine is awesome and has not missed a beat,the sound is awesome,the torque is great,and when i fit the new ali dart pro 1 heads and a bigger cam it will be 420+ hp and around 450 torque...which should be nice...
tinkers car,even though is the same car being an fd3,is a totally different beast with power delevery and the 2 engines sound completely different...merry christmas... :burnout
hers a clip of lukes fd3ls1...
http://www.lukelonberger.com/media/ncda/gripluke.wmv
heres a couple of a mates porsche 924 with a old school sbc and 750hp... :3gears-lh
i think some people are getting confused about why we fit v8s i had a motor and spent a lot of time and effort to finda car to put it in,the fd3s fitted all the needs rear drive ,good shape,good suspension,and there are lots of them with motors that need work (or soon will).i brouhgt mine from andrew at jimmys (very helpful),i first fitted a full spec rover 5.0 which was ok but not that special 338bhp on the limit !!,now the ls1 is another story 417bhp standard factory 6 speed no overheating it drive just like a factory car with so much go !!!, it is fitted right back against the bulk head and handels very well after all cars are just shells and drive trains its not rocket seince .i have not cut any body work and could fit a 13b back in, i am not trying to slag the rotary but sometimes its nice to have something different.my car is a daily drive and has been 100% reliable no worrys about hot starts etc ,i could not afford to run a rotary daily as the fuel would be to much, if anyone wants a look at it they are welcome ,i am about to fit a 6.3l stroker bottom end with cam upgrade and flowed heads should be 525 + bhp & 525 ft lb .there are no interior mods ive got the gear lever coming thfough the std hole and gator . as for the rev range it will only rev to 6500 but it starts pulling for 1100rpm so there is enough to use cheers craig will try to at some pics
by better i only meant slightly neater install..yes the sbc is a very good engine but does require hood alteration..prob is even using sbc if gettting the work done it is still about 10,000.i realise less if u are handy with a spanner..also the shifter for the sbc is very large..i blve the ls1 uses 6 speed box and no interior mods
and had a v8 fd3 been around when i was looking over a year ago i would have been very very tempted...rxv8 wld really like to have a look at yours in the new year i am in middx drop me some times in the new year when i can have a look at what u have done..paul
no problem mate...pm d you...
hi mate...the car is for sale for the time being,so if i still have the car in jan will let you know...prob will have as had tons of timewasters who just want to listen to the car...
send me an email to bearnigel@yahoo.com
Well thanks for all the replies guys, this has been interesting reading, i don\'t know what all the overheating problems are as i don\'t have any, i use my FD as a daily driver, my engine has been rebuilt, it failed due to corrosion (after 12 years, not apex seals) at 50,000 which could happen to any engine if it\'s not maintained, considering the size of the engine, the performance is amazing and yet BHP was limited at production BY MAZDA, something to do with an agreement with other manufacturers i think! imagine if they had not had that limit! all things considered the price of a rebuild is cheap, and certainly cheaper than changing it for a v8, or rebuilding a v8, as for comparing performance, with all the extra yards of comp rings, enormous cc, etc, etc, rabbit hutch on the bonnet, and no agreement to limit power, a v8 certainly should give more power than a 1300cc.
Handling /racing etc, compared on a track 13b or even a tiny 12a, RobbieRX7\'s link to an excelent video says it all!
from all the comments iv\'e read i think i have an answer for a car that would suit me, my FD with Carls new 3 rotor engine, a powerfull ICE with a recording of a racing V8 on full volume in case anyone else! wants to listen!
HAPPY CHRISTMAS ALL.
Bob
tinker27 wld love to see ur ls1 powered car do u have a email address etc
hi its tinker-27taylor@blueyonder.co.uk ,i have tried to put on some pics but cant do it ! have tried using the insert but cant get it to work will try again later
tinker send them to me mate and i will put them up for you... bearnigel@yahoo.com
Quote from: ro284Handling /racing etc, compared on a track 13b or even a tiny 12a, RobbieRX7\'s link to an excelent video says it all!
Regaring that video, comparing a rotary sports sedan with a v8 supercar isn\'t a fair comparision by any streatch of the imagination!! :rollin
People say rotaries are unreliable and people say v8s are heavy, both wrong, but that\'s life!
What do you mean not fair!
(quote)
Regarding that video, comparing a rotary sports sedan with a v8 supercar isn\'t a fair comparision by any stretch of the imagination!!
(end quote)
I thought the V8 Supercar did quite well all things considered, and nearly caught up a bit when the little 7 missed a gear! I think it would have been more FAIR! if the 20b hadn\'t broke his alternator as the greater cc would have made engine capacity nearer more equal.
wonder how many laps it would take for the 7 to lap the supercar! 5 or 6?
what you reckon guys?
Bob
here are tinkers pics...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rxv8/Image00312.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rxv8/Image00212.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rxv8/Image00112.jpg
Quote from: ro284What do you mean not fair!
(quote)
Regarding that video, comparing a rotary sports sedan with a v8 supercar isn\'t a fair comparision by any stretch of the imagination!!
(end quote)
I thought the V8 Supercar did quite well all things considered, and nearly caught up a bit when the little 7 missed a gear! I think it would have been more FAIR! if the 20b hadn\'t broke his alternator as the greater cc would have made engine capacity nearer more equal.
wonder how many laps it would take for the 7 to lap the supercar! 5 or 6?
what you reckon guys?
Bob
Compare a v8 sports sedan with a rotary sports sedan and you\'ll see what I mean!!!! The V8 supercar is basically a family sedan converted into a race car. They weigh a ton and handle like crap compared to the sports sedan class. The video basically compares apples with oranges! :Hammer
Forgot to mention the 20B\'s in the super sedans class still can\'t touch the v8s. (and I\'m ex NZ so I\'ve seen it with my own eyes) ;)
go on mullins......:)
i thought it was a pretty good comparison.The v8 had 150bhp more to make up for the heavier body, the rotary had less power and a lighter body..what is wrong with that? At the end of the day the only major difference would be the handling due to the big v8 and heavier car..but i suppose thats what you get with having a much heavier engine up front. surely the handling of that particular car is not that bad..it is a track car afterall. It`s like they say in the rocket rotary video when comparing the mcr skyline champion to the new entry re amamiya 13b rx7..power is not everything..the rx7 won because it is more nimble around the twisty roads. This thread will go on forever about which is better. Ive not got much against v8 conversions..i find it interesting, but if i was that paranoid about the rotary i would have bought a different car. Before i bought mine 2 years ago i was thinking of getting a fd with blown engine and getting a v8 conversion, but it it goes against the whole rx7 thing imo.
i realy like the idea of ls1/t56 combo power/torque and no worry about which of the hundreds of seals are gonna go pop...i am biased as 2 of my tips went recently and everything of mine is uprated so well hacked off..wish i was handy with a spanner i would be def be going this route..i love the looks of the rx7 but spend all my time wondering if its going to go pop..if my engine ever pops again its5.7litres for me...roughly 30mpg and a shedload of torque and a very nice looking engine as well
well said... pm tinker veilside as he might be able to hook you up a deal on a conversion...:)
http://www.torquecentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11
:burnout :burnout :burnout :burnout :burnout
veilside have you seen this... get a pm box or get ur email; up.. as you are uncontactable... so i have put the link on here...
email p.brian@fsmail.net ..yeah have looked on that site...the old school sbc can that use any other gearbox for example old school sbc(best sound)but later gearbox t56 6 speed manual
u have mail...
no mail rcvd
sent now.....
Quote from: ro284What do you mean not fair!
(quote)
Regarding that video, comparing a rotary sports sedan with a v8 supercar isn\'t a fair comparision by any stretch of the imagination!!
(end quote)
I thought the V8 Supercar did quite well all things considered, and nearly caught up a bit when the little 7 missed a gear! I think it would have been more FAIR! if the 20b hadn\'t broke his alternator as the greater cc would have made engine capacity nearer more equal.
wonder how many laps it would take for the 7 to lap the supercar! 5 or 6?
what you reckon guys?
Bob
G\'Day Bob!
It wasn\'t a fair video, and I don\'t really know why they did it to be honest. The cars are run in different classes, and are designed for different classes. I\'m not sure of the weight difference between the two but it would be a lot! maybe 500 kgs or more.
A proper test is what goes on in the Sports Sedan Championship of Australia. http://www.sportssedan.com.au/ Where V8\'s, 6\'s, etc. are up against rotor\'s with the same class rules.
Sports Sedan\'s have pretty much always been faster than the V8 Supercars. V8 Supercars however are a LOT more expensive :)
Hi Glen,
Thanks for your reply, When i started this thread i was intersted in comparing all the internals seal. rings cc, crankshafts in both types of engine, how both types of engine are developed, and the performance comparison of course, and then the handling of the cars, being a rotary enthusiast after owning many V8s i must say that i am very pleased with what i have learned from this thread! Wether the video gives a fair comparison is debatable,Taking into account all the extra BHP the supercar has to get all that extra wieght moving! (i thought that V8s were lighter now) as i see it the rotaries whatever class they are in would seem to be in a class of thier own, The acceleration of both the cars off the line was very similar, and i note the little 12a overtook the supercar with ease, i think out of the two classes i think the sports sedan class racing would be the most exciting to watch, and preferable to the big heavy Supercars, If a 13b were tuned to the same level as that little 12a, i can\'t see anything catching it! i\'m just so pleased that the capabilities of the rotary are there for all to see, that car really shifts!amazing!
i think the capacity of the 12a is around 1190 cc, against what would that V8 be? 3500, 5000cc ?
Cheers Bob
Bob, I\'m not getting at you but here are some answers to you comments...
Quote from: ro284Wether the video gives a fair comparison is debatable,Taking into account all the extra BHP the supercar has to get all that extra wieght moving! (i thought that V8s were lighter now)
It\'s not just about weight or BHP though, it\'s about the chassis setup! The V8 supercar runs a standard chassis with a front mounted engine. The Sports Sedan runs a tube chassis with a mid mounted engine.
Quote from: ro284The acceleration of both the cars off the line was very similar, and i note the little 10a overtook the supercar with ease
True the acceleration was similar off the line but the Sports Sedan is able to brake much later into the corners and that is how it passed! It has nothing to do with being faster or not. It is a lighter class of car with superior braking and handling. (i assume by 10A you mean 12A turbo)
Quote from: ro284If a 13b were tuned to the same level as that little 10a, i can\'t see anything catching it!
Bear in mind the V8s in the same class will be tuned to a similar level!
Quote from: ro284i think the capacity of the 10a is around 1190 cc, against what would that V8 be? 3500, 5000cc ?
It\'s a 12A Turbo vs a 5000cc non turbo. It\'s fine comparing capacity but as you know with a Rotary capacity is not a good indication of power output!
Put the 12A turbo in the V8 bodyshell (or put the V8 in the RX-7 bodyshell), race them as equals and then see whos quicker!! That would be a fair comparision! As Glenn said check out a class where Rotaries and V8\'s are on an equal footing and you will have a fairer basis for comparision and much better viewing!
Cheers :)
Thanks for corrections Mullins, i did mean 12a, edited, thanks for your comments, i am still learning so all info much appreciated! i guess i just see it as a direct comparison , like 4 wheels 1 driver, 1 engine, a body, same track, i am sure you all agree that the 12a puts up a fantastic all round performance,
cheers Bob
Totally agree 12A\'s are a brilliant package. A lot of them on the track can put a 13B\'s to shame if setup well. A guy I used to know back home used to run a Series 1 RX-7 with a 12A PP Turbo and it was damn quick! :driving