I just picked up my RX8 today from my local mazda showroom (T.W. White & Sons) and the salesman mentioned to me that they are trying to put together a 300BHP RX8. With a view to get it on the market in 8-12 mths time. All he would disclose to me is that it would be full MS aero kit and quite a lot of other MS bits under the hood. Being a sales guy he didnt really know exactly what they were putting under the hood to make those 300 horses:( But it true salesman fashion he did know the projected asking price... between £30k-£40K. He also added that it was an exclusive thing that only they (T.W. White & Sons) were doing.
I have no other means of gettin a 100% confirmation on this, as i see it as a rumour (hey, i just dont trust salesmen) it would be nice if any1 out there is in the know about this... any1???
Quote from: Spectre26I just picked up my RX8 today from my local mazda showroom (T.W. White & Sons) and the salesman mentioned to me that they are trying to put together a 300BHP RX8. With a view to get it on the market in 8-12 mths time. All he would disclose to me is that it would be full MS aero kit and quite a lot of other MS bits under the hood. Being a sales guy he didnt really know exactly what they were putting under the hood to make those 300 horses:( But it true salesman fashion he did know the projected asking price... between £30k-£40K. He also added that it was an exclusive thing that only they (T.W. White & Sons) were doing.
I have no other means of gettin a 100% confirmation on this, as i see it as a rumour (hey, i just dont trust salesmen) it would be nice if any1 out there is in the know about this... any1???
Take anything they say with a skip full of salt...
Didnt TW Whites import RX-7 with some form of backing from Mazda UK? I do know that they supported imported cars that other stealers wouldnt touch.
Fish
Yes, like the hi-power autos they allegedly sell, eh?
Pass the salt please Mr Adept...
What\'s happened to Tim\'s turbo conversion - been quiet recently!
I have already got 305hp,didn\'t cost 30-40k either.I took the car to donington a couple of weeks ago to take part in the car tuner GP.Did about 25 laps.Great fun,no issues,just wish I had more grip and less body roll.
Anyone want a conversion?
Tim, but some people like a warranty from the dealer with their nice new car.
Fish
Quote from: TimrxmotorsI have already got 305hp,didn\'t cost 30-40k either.I took the car to donington a couple of weeks ago to take part in the car tuner GP.Did about 25 laps.Great fun,no issues,just wish I had more grip and less body roll.
Anyone want a conversion?
Hi there Tim. Is that rear wheel bhp? BTW are you taking your 8 up tp Santa Pod on the 9th?
Cheers,
Ian.
Like i said at the start of my post dont really trust much of what they say. But on the off chance... it would be nice to imagine an off the shelf 300Bhp RX8.
Off the shelf Mazdaspeed 300Bhp RX-8 - that would be something to be proud of :cool
Wish I\'d known Tim, would have come and watched!
I didn\'t seem to have so much problem with body roll last time out, changed to a much more rear-focused driving style, seemed to almost dial it out...
Just a quick update on this so called 300Bhp RX8. My dealer (at T W Whites)called me today to tell me that he saw it in the garage today.
Aledgedly he said it was not supercharged or turboed. But it was chiped and N/A tuned. Cant remember the name he mentioned but he said it was done by a company who usually tunes Evos and scoobys. He was very enthuatic to say it had a big fat bore exhaust.
If u believe the hype he tells me, T W Whites has had a meeting and they have pretty much finalised everything on the car, all except the MPG. They say it will be released in the next month or so... :rolleyes: Time will tell.
Well, what a load of tosh that is then.
"Used to tuning Evos and Scoobies" immediately implies forced induction, not NA, to me. (Of course it\'s possible for a tuning shop to be expert in both, hi Carl... :D )
All the N/A tuning has been done, already, by Mazda, which is why it\'s now 250ish bhp before detuning for emissions, even though it\'s basically still a 13B. If you think about it, it\'s already been ported, that\'s why there\'s the aux ports in the hi-power.
There\'s just no way there\'s another 50bhp in there, unless they\'ve glued another rotor on. \'Course I suppose it MIGHT be a 3-rotor RENESIS but I think it\'s probably more likely a 3-ring marketing circus...
So if it\'s 300+ bhp, I still think it must be FI (or BS!)
Just relaying the message here...
I\'m some1 who doesnt think much of things till it is shown to be backed up by hard evidence. To be honest i can only take wat the dealer says n pass it on. But on a personal note when it comes to the innards of a car the guy dont really know alot and he totally up front about it. Like when i asked about what flash the current RX8 ran on he had no idea wat a flash was and when i explained he still had no clue.
I just put it down to him being purely a salesman and nothing else. You are probably very right zevans. And to be honest, from a logical point of view i very much agree with u. I dont see how u can squeze another 50 horses out without FI. Think u would b very lucky 2 even squeeze out 30 horses with a full NA tune. But the guy insisted it wasnt FI. So, short of yelling down the fone at him "LIAR!!!!" all i could manage was a "hmmm...k..." After all who am i to judge if it exists or not?
Just givin u guys here the spiel hes givin me.
I know a couple of heads at TW White and they have indicated to me that they were working on a project that will turn heads, as to how true 300 bhp is we will have to see.
I read somewhere about an MS 300hp RX-8 too but the conclusion in the article is that it probably won\'t happen??????? (not from mazda anyway?) Only time will tell.
Spoke to the dealer again today. Once again he assures me it will be ready for sale to the general public before christmas. But the release date is pened in for next month.
A small update. He says they r releaseing a 260 Bhp model as well as a 300Bhp model. Asked him again to confirm if it was F/I he confirms again that it is purely N/A. I did ask him if he could call me when it is next in house and i will take a load of pics for the forum and hopefully manage to get some form of dyno paperwork to sway the unconvinced multitude:p as well as to satisfy myself about this too good to be true scenario.
He did comment that the car outwardly looks very stock but under the hood it is a different story. Main difference he mentioned was a large air box. Didnt really ask for any more of a discription, after all, at the moment, why bother? At this stage i believe every1 is in the same school of thinking as i am... the talk is cheap way of thinking. So for me its just a case of waiting for his call and popping down to snap up some shots and get some hard evidence to post up here:)
BTW just keepin u guys updated so dont :flamed the messenger, but by all means discuss away :)
This has come to MRC via TW Whites, and from about as high as it comes, more will be released as they are nearer launch, so be excited..................
"Can’t answer all your questions at this present time but here are a couple of facts that may be of interest to you.
Current RX-8 has 231 at the flywheel and 154 at the rear wheels,we have a Dyno print out on our vehicle of 300 at the flywheel and 210 at the rear wheels.Torque has been improved but not as much as we would like. Not a turbo (you can get those from Japan) or supercharged.
We should be in a position to come to the market in approx 2 months and hope to launch it at the MPH Show where we will have it on the T.W.White stand.
Retail price will be under £30k which will include a full Mazda Speed Body Kit.The car has been lowered by 30mm and the brakes have been uprated. The handling is better than the current RX-8 but I still need to sort out the warranty on this vehicle"
The current renesis 2 rotor n/a engine in the RX8 is never going to get close to 300 bhp, trust me! It\'s pretty much had all the power extracted from it in its stock (hi power) form.
Hmmmm. Sort of getting interesting...................
definately, 300bhp without FI, just imagine it with :D
QuoteCurrent RX-8 has 231 at the flywheel and 154 at the rear wheels
that equates to a 33% power loss through transmission.
Think there figures are very optimistic or mazda have made a real arse of the transmission.
Geff
QuoteCurrent RX-8 has 231 at the flywheel and 154 at the rear wheels
that equates to a 33% power loss through transmission.
think there figures are very optimistic or mazda have made a real arse of the transmission.
I was thinking that - same goes for their claimed 300bhp at the fly: 210 at the wheels does not usually get anywhere near 300bhp at the fly.
hmmm....
Assuming the 8\'s transmissin is no worse than the Fd\'s (it\'s newer technology so I would hope it\'s improved) then 300 fly would give in the region of 245rwhp not 210!
If the car\'s not readys then TW might be hedging their bets and it may produce something close to 300 fly but if it\'s putting out 210 at the wheels then I\'d put money on it not being a true 300 fly.
What he said! ^
Does seema lot to ask of a n/a system, but looks like we only have a couple of months to see the results, I wonder how bad the mpg might be, to get 300 bhp n/a
Will try to get along to MPH again this year so it\'ll be interesting to see what they are claiming on their stand!
The RX8 231 dynos around 175 at the wheels give or take 7-8 bhp. Which is around a 25% loss. I suspect 154 may be a typo. I don\'t know of a single car that has dyno\'d that low.
Quote from: webrx8The RX8 231 dynos around 175 at the wheels give or take 7-8 bhp. I don\'t know of a single car that has dyno\'d that low.
Agreed, we\'ve had a number of HP\'s on our dyno and they have all made +/- 175atw. Stock any way :evillaugh
Rich
What\'s the maximum anyones got out of a N/A 8? with what mods?
Thanks
The stock car has had pretty much its full potential extracted from it already.
I\'d love to see a more powerful one, but I think that much more would be a struggle!
Take a Renesis apart and check out the induction system - its a serious peice of work - they spent a lot of time to get the power out of it... Compare it to the power a normal N/A 13B makes...
300hp N/A takes some serious work ... just look at the IPRA engines in aus !
The acheivable power potential of the 13 b is actually around 350hp in N/A form,some have made 380hp.(Flywheel)
To do this on a road car with emmissions gear,driveabilty and still N/A would be almost impossible.
The Renesis engine is a normal engine Rich, just the next phase of development of the 13b in N/A form.
The only way of achieving the power suggested by TW Whites in my opinion is by increasing the revs,and the ability of the engine to breathe through more engine porting,new inlet manifolds and exhaust manifolds too.then there is the fueling and ecu tuning.
Regards
Carl
What would a optimax remap and a slightly higher flow cat give you?
I think the power output of the current one is impressive as it is.
The output of the engines they use in the Satar Mazda is 240Bhp and they dont have any emissions regulations?
Quote from: CarlThe acheivable power potential of the 13 b is actually around 350hp in N/A form,some have made 380hp.(Flywheel)
Does the side-exhaust setup increase or decrease potential power? The idea as I understand it is to reduce overlap, so I guess that does lower the potential ceiling on revs and power. OTOH there\'s 30% more port x-section than on the 13B already, so if you port a 13B you\'ve only just caught up...
I imagine once you\'re over 10k revs you\'re into serious bespoke gearboxes and sparks, right? Which is cool in a race car, but in a car for the retail market?!
Just got an email from my dealer at T W Whites. An official update for all of u. So heres how it reads.
We have been developing the car since April this year.Originally we made a rich fuel map and adjusted to suit.
We still have a lot more mapping work to do including;
1. Refine all aspects of acceleration
2. Remove any flat spots
3. Refine cold start/hot start performance
4. Ensure all aspects of OBD are fully functional
5. Confirm combustion temperatures and air fuel ratio generally
6. Confirm acceptable emissions for future MOT tests
7. Set up closed loop Lambda correction
Once this is complete we can then confirm power and torque output with final ECU settings. Coast down to establish accurate power/torque readings at flywheel (to compare to factory figures). Aside from performance figures we do need to finalise a few ‘cosmetic’ changes.
I am happy with pricing and can confirm a retail price of under £30k which will include full Mazda Speed Body Kit and track session with a current B.T.C driver.
We are now the largest RX 8 dealers in Europe and have sold over 1000 new/used RX 8’s. I will only bring this car to the market if my technical people ‘sign it off’. All the salespeople were shown the car on Monday 10th October. It does look ‘stunning’ but we need to get the magical 300 with back up official power/torque output graph that can be used in the marketing/sales of this model. If we have any doubts about the vehicle I will abandon the project.
Once we are happy (and I have sorted out the warranty) I would be happy for 3 or 4 of you to come to Bookham to ‘test it’ prior to its launch.You guys know your vehicles and ‘won’t pull any punches’.
A lot of dealers ‘stretch the facts’- we are trying to be honest with you and keeping you up to date with this project.
Give me a call if you want to try the car before launch â€" I think we will definitely get the 300 â€" but the car will never deliver the torque level found in Evo’s etc. It just can’t be done â€" that’s the downside.
Neil White
So wonder who would be up for that test drive then eh? :p
If they get 300hp out of it in N/A form for under £30k I\'ll do a quarter mile on a unicycle, naked, in december. If they get anywhere near that figure it will be unreliable, undrivable and the result of finding the "more power" button that Mazda haven\'t told anyone about.
Sorry... that sounded really angry... I\'m not angry, I\'m just ssssssssoooooooooooooooooo sceptical. I don\'t doubt the abilities of who ever is tuning their 8, I just can\'t see them getting the power out of it for under 30k ;)
Quote from: Spectre26Originally we made a rich fuel map and adjusted to suit.
We still have a lot more mapping work to do including;
1. Refine all aspects of acceleration
2. Remove any flat spots
3. Refine cold start/hot start performance
4. Ensure all aspects of OBD are fully functional
5. Confirm combustion temperatures and air fuel ratio generally
6. Confirm acceptable emissions for future MOT tests
7. Set up closed loop Lambda correction
Once this is complete we can then confirm power and torque output with final ECU settings. Coast down to establish accurate power/torque readings at flywheel (to compare to factory figures). Aside from performance figures we do need to finalise a few ‘cosmetic’ changes.
LOL, is that ALL they have left todo? :P
Quote from: 20B_boyLOL, is that ALL they have left todo? :P
LOL - they\'ve done all of the mapping apart from any actual mapping then?
Matt - time to invest in a tandem!
I\'ll join you Matt, can\'t see it happening without going forced induction.
Quote from: mattmaclennanIf they get 300hp out of it in N/A form for under £30k I\'ll do a quarter mile on a unicycle, naked, in december.
LOL - Maybe they should fit LED repeaters & bulbs to save on power loss too..........;-)
I hope I haven\'t started something here.... Strip @ The Strip? Someone should get in touch with SantaPod, the whole Club could be doing it for Cancer Research next... I didn\'t say anything, I had nothing to do with it, I wasn\'t even there when someone suggested it.
A 300hp Rx8 would be a dodle anyway, just rip out the untuneable plastic engine and throw in a TII motor with some nice ports and a turbo... da daaa all for under £30K By the way, I\'d quite happily do this for £10k LOL
Quote from: mattmaclennanA 300hp Rx8 would be a dodle anyway, just rip out the untuneable plastic engine and throw in a TII motor with some nice ports and a turbo...
Must... not... feed... troll...
...although that would be a lot easier than getting a T-IIs brakes, suspension, stiffness, and drivetrain up to RX8 standard, eh? :p
T2? Didn\'t James Cameron do that film ;-).
Saw this advert at the MPH show at Earl\'s Court today:
Here is the small print:
it will be interesting to see if it lives up to its name :)
I think we need to know more about this V-Pro Power upgrade... ;) I think I have everything else already... :)
surely the unique decals must count for somthing :D
Have just found out the V-pro power upgrade is a replacment ecu produced by HKS will look into more and see what I can dish out?
I\'d want leather seats not cloth for that price surely. But then again if we get that sort of power out of it i wouldnt want to be sliding out of my seat going round the bends.....
So if I read this correctly, they are going to fit an aftermarket ECU mapped for Jap fuel (100RON) into a UK car.
I would rather use an Apexi PFC.
RYan whats wrong with cloth seats? Warmer in winter, cooler in summer, and they hold you more firmly on the turns. I dont get this "leather" thing at all??
Could it be this?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/61801/racier_rx8_is_on_the_way.html
hmmm gotta pop in to tw whites sometime soon to ask about y exactly there is condensation in my rear left and right cluster on my 3mth old car. so might ask them on the latest news regarding the advert that kevint saw
Wow.... So it gets some sporty suspension, an aftermarket exhaust and a few bits of fibre added to it. What about giving it more power, which IMHO it needs.
We already know that it handles well, that is not in question. Power is!
Fish
Actually, in the handling department, stiffening the rear made quite a difference...
mm About my previous post, actually I DO understand the "leather" thing, but not for car seats! :-)))
Interestingly, AutoExpress says there\'s a facelift in 2007.
Quote from: Spectre26hmmm gotta pop in to tw whites sometime soon to ask about y exactly there is condensation in my rear left and right cluster on my 3mth old car. so might ask them on the latest news regarding the advert that kevint saw
I\'ve got the same problem on my 2 month old car. Left is worse than right.
Let me know how you get on
Philip
I know it\'s no consolation, but they ALL do that... it\'s not water leaking in, it\'s condensation caused by temperature differential... I\'m sure it\'s as a result of having plastic lenses... they do it on the front too...
Quote from: BlueAdeptI know it\'s no consolation, but they ALL do that... it\'s not water leaking in, it\'s condensation caused by temperature differential... I\'m sure it\'s as a result of having plastic lenses... they do it on the front too...
Exactly what I was going to say I\'ve had a few xars now where ther plastic lens is put on the cluster and they\'ve all done the same unfortunatly it\'s just something we\'re (as 8 owners will have to put up wit
Quote from: BlueAdeptI know it\'s no consolation, but they ALL do that... it\'s not water leaking in, it\'s condensation caused by temperature differential... I\'m sure it\'s as a result of having plastic lenses... they do it on the front too...
Looks like i might not even bother mentioning it to them when i pop down 2 c them... Just makes me look picky :p just as ya said guess i gotta live with it. :o
Quote from: BlueAdeptI know it\'s no consolation, but they ALL do that... it\'s not water leaking in, it\'s condensation caused by temperature differential... I\'m sure it\'s as a result of having plastic lenses... they do it on the front too...
My old 8 did this and I reckon my new 8 does too :mad: . However, I don\'t believe all is lost fellas. I\'ve read that some US owners have managed to have both the front AND rear clusters replaced under warranty for the very same issues :yes .
I think that I may have even seen a Service Bulletin on this problem, something to do with the lense glue?? Put it this way, if mine deffo are misting up then I\'m off to Milcars for a warranty jobby :eek: .
Ian.
I think you SHOULD get it done - you spend a lot of money for a car, you dont want little faults like this and if you can find the bulletin this confirms the fault!
If it gets to be more of a problem in the future you will be wishing you got it looked at!
Absolutely... don\'t get me wrong, if it can be fixed... that\'s great. but if it\'s caused by temperature changes and not water leaking into the clusters then I don\'t see how replacing them can help... unless the new ones are of a different material.
Quote from: Martinymm About my previous post, actually I DO understand the "leather" thing, but not for car seats! :-)))
IMO there\'s a simple reason... leather car seats are much longer lasting... and an aged leather seat looks better than an aged cloth one... If you plan to keep the car for 3 years, it\'s not a concideration, but if you plan to keep it longer, then it might start to be.
And out of interest are the cloth seats heated??? The heated seats are nice on the cold mornings ;)
^^^ Off topic - briefly :eek . Ryan, just checked out the link to your motor. Just wanted to say very nice :D .
On topic - Heated cloth seats :rollin :rollin . I just know you are taking the urine ;) .
As for that V-Pro power upgrade... Could it be this:-
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/hksfcvmaun.html
K, this is a long one but i hope it will answer some of the questions u may have had. Please bear with me on this. :god
I popped down to T W Whites last evening to return a survey and sort out a few minor things and inadvertantly got myself a meeting with Neil White himself regarding the 300bhp RX8 hes putting out. Not being a professional reporter i\'ll try to convey the meeting we had as best i can in this post.
Biggest Vibe i got off Neil was the almost desperation he has to convince all of u that it is indeed a 300bhp machine. Just goes to show he is concerned with the opinion of all of u out there. He stated the basically logical fact that it would be maddness to spend 8mths of working (and money) on a car and then to announce to people that he was making a 300bhp car only not to produce. That would really be setting yourself up for a fall, not to mention tarnishing your reputation. Which led onto a piece of good news. Which is the car will be arriving as a completed product at Whites by the end of this week. So the day or reckoning is near.
He has even gone thru the trouble of not only getting a dyno graph printed out from the place he is getting it tuned at (Rampage) but he is also getting an independant party to dyno the car. That hopefully will convince all but the most skeptical of u out there. I believe Neil mentioned that the indi guys are based in oxford and are the same people who did the tuned EVO (Fq400... i think... btw i am crap in the memory dept)
I asked him about the apparent miscalculation with regard to the drivetrain losses derived from the figures he previously quoted us. I believe some of u worked it out to be an unbelieveable 30% drivetrain loss. He said the figures were what the tuning company quoted him and the reason for it was because of the type of dyno used. I think, but dont take it as gospel as my memory sux, he said it was a mustang dyno. And that they were characteristic of giving readouts which equated to high drivetrain losses. I\'m not a dyno professor so i am leaving the floor open to those of u who r in the know on dynos. I did try to advise him that if he was worried about people not believing the independant dyno people he has employed, that sending the car to Re-worx :cool for an independant dyno run would probably silence all but the most hardcore of nay-sayers on this forum.
Neil said that a majority of the aftermarket kit is HKS. Don\'t know if he wanted me to mention it or not but he never said other wise... so... The exhaust & intake is HKS. As for the rest, the brakes and springs, he didn\'t have it to hand so he couldnt confirm. But what he did mention on the V-pro power upgrade was that it is a piggy back unit, not a stand alone, so i would rate Jame\'s find on the HKS v-pro as a very educated guess, especially since he did say that he wanted to go for HKS for most of the aftermarket stuff as they were a reputable international aftermarket manufacturer. Thou i must add he never mentioned who the manufacturer of the piggy back unit was.
He did add that he did look at just about all the aftermarket parts out there for the 8. He said that he had travelled to a load of countries, from USA to Japan and quite a few other places insearch of the right parts. Key considerations for him were as u would expect, 1st, does the part allow the ammount of improvement required to being the RX8 up to level? and 2nd, is it affordable enough for the buying public to shell out cash to buy the car with those parts on? I have a suspicion that he had advisors on the topic as Neil did add that he isn\'t a very technically minded guy. He said that he met some1 at the MPH show, some rotor nut (was it one of u??) who began firing questions and info at him, which which throughly baffled and impressed him. After mentioning this he said it goes to show that some of the guys out there are very clued up. Also suspect that he had an advisior on the parts selection front because he hadn\'t really heard of JIC when i asked if they considered their exhaust unit, yes... JIC fan here :p . Seeing as JIC are the tuners for the D1GP RX8 i dont really see them as a low profile aftermarket company.
Neil also mentioned to me who the test driver for this 300bhp RX8 is. Thou he did add that he didn\'t want me disclosing the identity. But I suppose i can add that whoever it is, is a pretty hi-profile driver and is not unfimilar with rx8s. The car has undergone around 6000 miles of testing so far(car was from new) A portion of the miles accumilated by Neil himself. The rest divided between the tuning house and the test driver. Neil\'s aim with this car is not just to hit the 300bhp mark but also to do it with reliability in mind He stressed that he was not up for producing a 300bhp car for sale only for it to die a few mths or weeks down the line. He mentioned that just about all the info he has released so far on the 300bhp RX8 is thru this forum as he will not go to press on the car till the 100% finished product lands on his doorstep later this week. Thou again adding that this is not an indication that the 300bhp RX8 does not exist. Neil is practically paranoid of people not believeing him... to be honest at one point in our conversation i did find it funny when he was showing me the people he was calling on his mobile just incase i doubted him lol :p
I asked about the warrenty issue, as i believe some of u out there have. Neil said the warrenty would not be a Mazda warrenty but instead would be a T W Whites approved warrenty. So any porblems would be solved thru them and not Mazda.
Next question was one that many have asked. What will be the MPG of the car? Neil\'s reply was that he would not be getting into publishing or even working out figures for this as it would involve driving the car for a month or so wholely on city roads then a month on motorways, then a month of combination. And all that time and money spent to realise those figures, plus the added pains involved in making those figures official. Its not something he really wants to be dragged into. Safe to say he added that fuel burn wouldn\'t be as good as a stock RX8 but hey... like any of u out there were really expecting a more fuel efficient RX8.
I did mention that one theroy some people on the forum had come to, was that the 300bhp could be achieved N/A if the redline was raised. He did say that it can be raised to 11k and pretty much switched subjects at that. So in all honesty that avenue is still open to debate. Guess i\'ll have to wait a lil longer to get the 100% answer.
I will be following up the latest when the car arrives in the "flesh", but as i might well be out the country on holidays next week i might miss the chance:( But rest assured I will do my best to keep u updated.He did offer me the opertunity to test drive the car round the local roads and twisties provided i promised not to stack it :3gears-rh I just hope that the offer will still stand when i am back from my hols. Fingers crossed.
Apologies again, I know its a long ol post but finally thanks to Neil White for his time :wave and a thanks going out to John Crook for making it possiable :wave
Also thanks to all of u who have had the patience to finish reading the post :wave
Quote from: Spectre26K, this is a long one but i hope it will answer some of the questions u may have had. Please bear with me on this. :god
Think I can speak for the forum when I say thanks for your efforts! :god
I will draw my own conclusions from the curtailment of the NA discussion ;)
Quote from: Spectre26I did mention that one theroy some people on the forum had come to, was that the 300bhp could be achieved N/A if the redline was raised. He did say that it can be raised to 11k and pretty much switched subjects at that.
Mmmm a Mazda dealership did tell me that the origonal plan for the RX-8 was to have it limit at 14k revs - but I wold take no notice of this considering what hassle I had from them!
Sounds just like the conversation I had with Neil at the MPH show at the NEC, he seemed almost desperate for people to believe his claims?? I suppose the proof of the pudding and all that .. we\'ll just have to see what happens :confused:
Oh he did say he would market the car just as a "higher powered" model if he couldn\'t get to the magic 300bhp.
:p
Jon
Quote from: Ricco_04Mmmm a Mazda dealership did tell me that the origonal plan for the RX-8 was to have it limit at 14k revs - but I wold take no notice of this considering what hassle I had from them!
I\'ve certainly heard the 11K number, but I\'ve also heard that a 13B has a destructive resonance at 13K... so 14K seems unlikley, although what effect the RX8\'s lightened rotors have on this I do not know.
Quote from: BlueAdeptI\'ve certainly heard the 11K number, but I\'ve also heard that a 13B has a destructive resonance at 13K... so 14K seems unlikley, although what effect the RX8\'s lightened rotors have on this I do not know.
That\'s true - I kinda took everything they said with a pinch of salt really. I guess it could be done but rotors and the like would be weighted differtently so would probably idle at 5,000 revs - hang on, thats a bloody great idea!!!! :cool :rollin
Oh a lil thing i forgot to mention... Neil mentioned that it would only run on octane 98 or higher. He also mentioned optimax is fine as well.
Well just a coupple more days and we will soon see how it goes...
Well the day or reckoning has come and gone... and no car i am able to reach out and touch yet alone see.:( But its only a day over the date (02 Dec) they mentioned that the car would be in. To be honest i kinda expected it. Few ventures ever go to schedule. Delay is always 2 be expected.
I called T W Whites about an hour ago. Thats when i was told no car was in or at least none that they knew of. I asked if Neil was around but was told he was in Europe somewhere... or Japan, not too sure. Either way he is uncontactable. So its kinda tough getting info on the cars status. To make things worse... well dunno if its worse but well... i\'m off 2 cyprus for some winter sun for a couple of weeks. As such i cant really do any follow up on the car:(
I know that having said what i just have, conspiracy theroys will be rife. But just remember i\'m just following up as and when i can and will keep u guys updated whenever i get info. Still got my fingers crossed on that test drive. Just try 2 keep an open mind (know what some of u r like ;)) We can only give him a fair chance.
^ Cheers mate. Have a good holiday too ;-).
SPoke to Bob at TW Whites this morning who confirmed that its on its way. Coming soon!
Do we have a "drumming his fingers impatiently" smiley?
Well I am guessing that TW Whites had been talking rather too loudly at the pub when someone called their bluff.
Best get back down the pub and brag or blag some more. :p
Fish
Hey just had a great idea!
If they mess around long enough, could we get them to launch it at Brooklands?
If they mess around even longer, at RS?
Well Here is the long awaited conclusion to this topic. I went to T W Whites showroom yesterday to check up on things. I was given the following letter from Neil White.
We have now decided NOT to proceed with the RX-8 300 Project.
We have tested the ‘finished’ car several times and the DYNO readings have ranged from 282 bhp to 303 bhp - this would be acceptable from a sales and marketing point of view, but we do have technical issues with the ‘running’ of the vehicle.
These issues include :-
Hot start problem we cannot resolve
Flat spots we cannot iron out
MPG of 13.0 to 13.8
Question mark over long term reliability
We do not want to compromise our position in the market or the RX-8 in general, so therefore please inform any of your customers who were interested in the 300, that we feel it would be UNWISE to boost their RX-8 to this level of performance. The reliability will just not be good enough for a MAZDA.
Everyone at whites who is aware of the forums and the reception the topic has had thus far is bracing themselves for the torrent of "I told you so" that is inevitably gonna come.
To be honest I am a lil gutted that they weren\'t able to pull it off reliably, would have loved to have taken the test drive that Neil offered. Can only give the guy the credit for at least spending the time and money to try and achieve it. Would be nice if maybe he keeps what he has learnt from this project and trys to work it out slowly on the back burner, sort of a part time pet project. Would be a waste to just bin it.
Thanks for the update Paul. I\'ll leave it for those with real rotary experience to draw their own conclusions, based on TG Whites err..... reasons above. I\'ll just keep my thoughts to my self for now..............*cough* BS *cough*. :-).
Thanks again for your efforts, Spectre... and no, I\'m not going to say it. :D
I won\'t say it either then ;)
I am intending to conact Neil White personally and maybe salvage something from this episode. As i said b4 it is a total shame to just throw the pervious years efforts into the bin. Just because you dont succeed in your efforts doesn\'t mean what u attempted was totally useless. I\'ll try get my hands on the dyno readings to post up. I emphasise the TRY bit. I\'ll also try to get wat info he can give with regard to was was done to the car. But TBH i don\'t see myself getting much here as he pretty much left that part to the people doing the work, which was an independant company.
TBH i would like to meet up with him in person again and maybe discuss putting out a 260 HP RX8. Reason he wanted to hit the 300 figure was because it was wat he reckoned would be needed to turn heads and get people interested. To that end i think he was more than successful. But i don\'t think 260 is a number 2 b ashamed of? The point on the MPG seemed 2 concern the sales guys quite a bit but in all honesty if u were out to get a 300 BHP would u expect MPG to be anywhere close to 20??? I certainly wouldn\'t.
From what i know the people who did the tune were pistion heads. A good bunch thou, they did the tune on the EVO Fqs. But as i\'m sure every1 here knows, just cos u r hot in tuning pistons doesn\'t mean u r anywhere near hot in tuning rotarys. I would like to point him towards some of the more established rotary tuning houses in the UK. Who knows, they could maybe spot some solutions the previous tuners missed. Dunno if any of u reading are in those established houses i mentioned ( u know who u r ;)) would ya be interested in applying your skillz to the problems? I could offer him your expertise? Hey maybe it could be a joint venture, a tuning house/dealership joint venture? Opinions?
I\'m not a car tuner by any means but i would like to think that the issues the car has can be sorted out by a bunch of guys with a good background in rotary engine tuning. Ok maybe not hitting that 300 mark he was aiming for but, as just mentioned, the 260 mark. Getting an out of the box NA 260 RX8 from your local dealership and warenty honored by them. That ain\'t half bad is it? I know its an option i would have liked 2 have been offered when i got my 8. Thou if i could have afforded it would have been another point altogether.
OH...and cheers guys for not saying it. Just about every1 at Whites knew wat was gonna go thru your heads when they released that statement. But the fact that it wasnt said just adds to the good reputation and friendly atmosphere this forum is well known for :Thumbs-up
If any support is required on this project from a turbo standpoint, I am an application engineer for Honeywell turbo technologies (otherwise known as Garrett Turbo) and although my support would be independent of my company I would be more then happy to help.
If you could just supply me with some engine data.....!
Quote from: rxsamIf any support is required on this project from a turbo standpoint, I am an application engineer for Honeywell turbo technologies (otherwise known as Garrett Turbo) and although my support would be independent of my company I would be more then happy to help.
If you could just supply me with some engine data.....!
WTF?? I\'m sure this was posted about 6 months ago? or is it just similar? sure this has happened before - the odd old post reappearing??
Spoooky de ja vu :Hammer
Thought this thread died a death many moons ago. de ja vu indeed.