Just had my engine rebuilt and have been wondering if I am doing everything I can to ensure minimal problems. I have a turbo timer so cooling down the car isn\'t an issue, however it made me start to wonder ho other people warm up their cars.
At the moment, I start it up and let it run for about a minute or so before driving off. I tend to keep below 4000revs before it shows as warm on the dashboard. Then I obviously drive it how it is mean to be driven!!
Is this what others do?
Thanks
Tailz
Start it, get in, drive off <3000 rpm no hard throttle till water temp is ok. Wait another 3 mins or so as oil takes a lot longer.
Are you still running the car in? if so I would recommend talking to your engine builder, normal rule of thumb for run in is no boost for the 1st xxx miles and slowly build, weather the car is run in or not never show it any boost till both water and oil are up to temp.
Had mine rebuilt first 500 miles dont go over 2500rpm, have a service next 500 dont go over 4500rpm, then another service n ease into it but dont boot it, for another 200miles.. then u should be good to go :)
Warming up, id start the car, let her heat up for a min, pull away keeping revs no more than 3000rpm, them once warm AHHWOOHOOO!!!! lol
I think I might be being over cautious with mine . I start it up let it run until the water temp is at normal running temp ( about 5 mins ) then I do about 10 miles to make sure the oil is nice and warm , then I thrash the pants off it
Better to be over cautious than abuse it :) As a rule of thumb I\'d recommend off boost driving for the first 10mins, or leave it idling on the driveway for a bit before you set off. (may be difficult depending on where you live)
Quote from: JL1978I think I might be being over cautious with mine . I start it up let it run until the water temp is at normal running temp ( about 5 mins ) then I do about 10 miles to make sure the oil is nice and warm , then I thrash the pants off it
With a 4k rebuild cost, id rather be to carfull than not enough lol.. ma m8`s tend to rip the **** out o me the way i went on with mine lol.. o i miss her sob sob!!
A ten minuite journey would take me like 25 mins lol
Quote from: JL1978I think I might be being over cautious with mine . I start it up let it run until the water temp is at normal running temp ( about 5 mins ) then I do about 10 miles to make sure the oil is nice and warm , then I thrash the pants off it
I think this is bad. to leave the car on idle with the choke on too is more likely to cause more damage to the engine.
Personally I start it, leave it for about 10seconds whilst I find the right CD to listen too and stick the seat belt on then drive off. as long as your not taking it up the rev scale it\'ll be fine being driven gently, if anything it\'ll be better than leaving it on idle chucking fuel in.....
Another method I heard of was this:-
For the first 10mins drive it like its broken, then after that drive it like you wanna break it :bandit
Not advocating this obviously :D
I floor it as soon as it\'s started up. Is that bad?
:p ;)
The over protective advice I would say is :
When you turn the car on the engine will auto rev to around 3k rpm for around 20-30 seconds. After this drive off boost and no more than 3,000 rpm. When Water is normal drive for another 5 mins for oil in engine & drivetrain to be up to temp. Then bring the boost up in small amounts - ie not straght to buzzer!
So usually means going the long way to work! :p
O MY GOD!! hehe thats the best way to drive them ya no lololol
Quote from: Ricco_04When you turn the car on the engine will auto rev to around 3k rpm for around 20-30 seconds.
Strange.... Mine definately doesnt sit at 3k for 20-30seconds.... anyone elses? maybe 1750?
I was about 1800rpm then goes down to 800-1000rpm after 30secs or so..
mine sits at 1500ish for quite a while. Till she\'s warmed up a bit really. So the speed of engine is about right - but i suspect i have an idle issue. Possibly the idle control valve. Dunno yet - haven\'t investigated yet.
Usually i start the car up water temp is about 18oC, i let the car sit there till it gets to 30oC and hen drive without going over 3000rpm until water and oil temp are at normal temp so water 73oC and oil 70oC.
Hope that helps,
Gurj :)
When i start mine it runs at 1300 for a few minutes then i drive off without hanging around, but dont floor it! and within 5 minutes it settles down at about 800, idle, nice and smooth, this goes up to 900 with the aircon on
Bob
Thanks for the feedback guys
you will find that the water temp reaches norm op temp before the oil... especially in the cooler weather in the mornings now... it could take atleast another 5-10 minutes to get the oil up to temp
as for the choke issue... mine start shoots upto about 3k then immeadiately drops to about 1800 the slowly moves down to about 1200 then sits at 800 after about 1 minute...
allways the same pattern.
good luck
Quote from: the lemsteryou will find that the water temp reaches norm op temp before the oil... especially in the cooler weather in the mornings now... it could take atleast another 5-10 minutes to get the oil up to temp
as for the choke issue... mine start shoots upto about 3k then immeadiately drops to about 1800 the slowly moves down to about 1200 then sits at 800 after about 1 minute...
allways the same pattern.
good luck
Yup, thats what it should do (according to the manual). Just to throw another in the works, mine doesn\'t always auto rev from cold!!! :confused:
I dont think it does it if it already sences the car is warm enough (like if you used it half an hour ago)
Sorry, but this is mad..
Why do you (all) start the car, wait to warm up, drive under 3K for awhile, no boost for 10 mins etc etc etc..
Please please explain... :rolleyes:
Im not great with guessing sarcasm or not.
But this is to protect teh engine , Rotary or piston engines should never be given stick when cold , you need to warm them up , lube things up, get the juices flowing then begin your assult....
Bit like other things in life :p
Quote from: TRexSorry, but this is mad..
Why do you (all) start the car, wait to warm up, drive under 3K for awhile, no boost for 10 mins etc etc etc..
Please please explain... :rolleyes:
Hmmmmm, 3 replies over different threads all sarcastic ??? seems apparent you want an arguement over something ? :confused:
No just tired of all the misinfomation that gets posted here.
Sit and wonder why when you get a moment, \'why do the general public are wary of the rotary?\'
If I was joe bloke looking for a nice sports car and saw these cars about, decided to look them up and come across this site for info..
Guess what, I would run far far away from the rotary and go as far as spreading the word that they are rubbish.... they are disposable cars, they only last 60K miles, you NEED an after market ECU straight away otherwise the slightest mod the engine will blow up. you need to start the car, let it warm up, drive under 3K for 10 mins, no boost etc etc.
Thats what clubs and sites like this are for, to educate learn/teach the correct things.
Not scare people away because of lack of information and education!
as we all know the oil lubricates the engine and is used in the combustion cycle...
oil flows better when warm and it is only when warm that the oil coolers work. oil is also used in the turbos for lubrication.
as the turbos work under compression they heat up really quickly and the oil doesnt so there is a temperature difference that could result in blowing a turboor something similar... yes you could start from cold and go hell for leather but this does not do your engine any good.
Gsb, no beef m8, but there is a difference in sarcasm and questioning/objecting. You won\'t know the latter because you don\'t know any better.
If I read or hear something that I do not understand or dissagreed or even know better, yes of course I will jump in and try to correct it or learn from it.
And you know why, because I like to be edcuated with the correct infomation, I do not want to learn rubbish.
That is not called \'looking for an argument\' son, that is called disagreeing and trying to put right instead of just sitting in my chair and learning rubbish like everyone does on here!
If you think I am wrong, just have a look at the RX7 car prices... A ford focus has better value!
rgds
So what are you suggesting then, it\'s ok to rag the tits off a cold engine?
TRex,
You obviously strongly disagree with the warming up process people are advocating on here. You seem to have disagreed and complained about what is being written without actually posting what you consider to be the correct way to warm up an FD. How exactly would you warm up and FD then?
Jake
Quote from: TRexThat is not called \'looking for an argument\' son, that is called disagreeing and trying to put right instead of just sitting in my chair and learning rubbish like everyone does on here!
But your not trying to put right are you? if you disagree tell us why and what we should do. Personally I start the car and drive off. I just dont rag it til the oil is up to temp....
Go on any car club which has a turbo fitted to the motor you\'ll get the same answer everywhere so I doubt its going to scare many people away
:)
Many moons ago...
Back in the days of the carburator, there was a law that people lived by. And it said...
You must thoroughly warm up your engine before driving the car.
This law was deeply rooted in poor vaporization of the gas in a cold carburator and intake manifold. It was accepted then that it was best to warm up the so as to eliminate hesitation, stall, or throttle tip-in sag. While this scenario may have served the driver well, it was the worst possible scenario for the engine.
A cold engine experiences excessive wear due to the rich mixture required by the EFI system. This tends to wash fuel from the cylinder walls and aggravates wear between the rings and cylinder bores.
An engine that is driven immediately will have much higher coolant and oil temperatures than one that idles for 5 minutes. At the same time you will also warm up the rest of the drivetrain like the transmission and wheel bearings. Something idling can not do...
Quote from: davegttph1But your not trying to put right are you? if you disagree tell us why and what we should do. Personally I start the car and drive off. I just dont rag it til the oil is up to temp....
:)
Dave relax, this is exactly what I said/ask..
{QUOTE TREX}Why do you (all) start the car, wait to warm up, drive under 3K for awhile, no boost for 10 mins etc etc etc..
Please please explain... {QUOTE}
I asked a question, not disagreeing...
SO don\'t know where this all started...
OK I agree with your explanation (p.s. Im relaxed as can be at work ;) ) that sitting there waiting for it too warm up is bad. never agreed with that, but you must also let the car warm up whilst driving it before giving it high revs :)
Quote from: TRexI asked a question, not disagreeing...
But you were making out that you knew better. So do you disagree with driving the car gently until its thouroughly warmed up? Fair enough don\'t let it sit and idle, but from your explanation it sounded like you were saying "dive it hard so it warms up faster".
I think he means don\'t treat it like a delicate flower for the first few minutes - just drive it normally. I would have thought ragging it to the limits straight away is a good plan (But only due to the turbos requiring a nice supply of thin oil that only warm oil can do) - but i may be wrong there, too!!
I also do not agree that treating it delicately right from the start for 10 minutes or so is necassarily giving it the best treatment. I just drive mine normally - as you would any other car. I also do not sit in my drive waiting for it to cool down for 10 minutes - i used to, but don\'t anymore. The reason you\'re meant to is that oil used to get burnt (carbonised) to the oil supply lines of the turbos when hot, but with modern turbos that are water cooled, they will cool down slowly anyway, and therefore not have this problem, so i see little point in sitting in my car for no apparent reason.
I\'m with Trex on this one! :D
To elaborate a bit more, it\'s better to warm up your car while driving so that everything warms up equally. ie: you don\'t want your engine running at temp. while your transmission, differential, etc. are still frozen. This could cause undo stress should you decide to gun it for whatever reason...
This way the fluid will get pumped up and around theentire engine much faster than sitting at idle. I usually let it idle for about 30 seconds and go. In fact idling longer will be bad for the car. This is the new concept now.
Let your car idle till it\'s warmed up and compare to driving slowly out. You will notice that the latter step will warm the car up faster.
ALso if you knew how a rotary engine works, and the oil system compared to a piston type is totally different in what needs and what gets lubed you may understand more.
rgds
Ok yes I think we all understand a bit more...
1. Idling for long periods is not good, especially when engine is cold.
2. Drive the car after starting...
3. Don\'t rag it just yet..
4. A rule of thumb is drive easily for first 2 miles.. normally after this the running temps are fine enough to red line the b@stard.. :cool
Ok, so what was your original gripe with the methods suggested previously on this thread?:
"Sorry, but this is mad..
Why do you (all) start the car, wait to warm up, drive under 3K for awhile, no boost for 10 mins etc etc etc..."
It was abit too excessive don\'t you think..
Abit like the car blows up at 60K..
I think we need to get some stuff right about the cars as thats what peeps come on here for...
There are hundreds of people lurking and browsing the site on a weekly basis looking for information and they come on and read crazy stuff and they run away, and so to does the appreciation and value of our cars too, they run away! :(
I\'ll give you an example as it\'s relevant..
A couple of months ago when I was fresh on these cars, I asked a question(after searching many many past topics on here).
I wanted to know what was the average or correct \'Oil pressures\' for these rotary engines..
Up to now the question has not been answered correctly. And since then 2 other threads came up asking the same question and still no one can give an answer.. :rolleyes:
People here mod there cars to the teeth and run them, but do not know the very very basic critical answer to an important question like that.. mad..
Excessive maybe, but it\'s certainly not misinformation. I mean how hard is it to be nice to your car until she\'s warmed up? At the end of the day it\'s entirely your perogative how you treat your car, but like interloper said with rebuilds often costing in excess of £4k, where\'s the harm in being cautious? Although I do agree there\'s alot scaremongering surrounding the rotary engine.
but there\'s harm in being over cautious! Ok, you treat your engine like kid gloves, by warming it up in the drive way on idle - on the gearbox destroys itself cos you go out and give it full throttle straight away because the engine is now warm enough to thrash!
I just drive mine normally straightaway - don\'t thrash it, but normal driving. I have found that the gearbox is much easier to use, slots in very nicely quite quickly. I believe that\'s down to everything warming up all at the same time.
TRex,
I agree with what you\'re saying about the warming up process. I was always taught once a car is started to drive it, don\'t just let it sit there and idle for ages before driving away. Don\'t baby it too much when its cold, just be more considerate until it\'s up to temp and then go for it. :3gears-rh
No no, I don\'t mean leave it sit on the driveway idling for 10 minutes, just drive her gently until she\'s warmed through without boosting excessively. That\'s essentially the advice that was given at the start of this thread, so where\'s the problem with that? Pretty much standard practice with any turbo car, rotary or not.
On a side note, the oil pressures should be roughly:
~30-40 psi at idle
~60 psi at 3000 rpm
~100 psi + at reline
(although it will vary from car to car depending on wear etc.)
{QUOTE TREX}Why do you (all) start the car, wait to warm up, drive under 3K for awhile, no boost for 10 mins etc etc etc..
Please please explain... {QUOTE}
Not too far off, no??
1. Start the car, wait to warm up - 30~60 secs
2. Drive under 3k for a while no boost for 10 mins - try avoiding positive boost, let the turbos warm up(no wot for 2 miles),
3. stay below 4k for another 2 miles(no wot).
4. Floor it :D
The total warming up time 10 minutes ;)
haha, is it me or is that maths a little off? If you sit for 60 secs, drive under 3k for 10 minutes and then do another 2 miles that\'d be more like 15 minutes surely? I still don\'t agree with the letting the car sit for 30-60 seconds once it\'s started. Surely it\'s just keeping the car colder for longer as it\'s not gonna warm up very fast sitting on the drive idling. I would have thought that driving the car with some consideration is the quickest and best way to warm a car up? Plus as others have mentioned it won\'t help much warming up the gearbox, diff.
Quotehaha, is it me or is that maths a little off? If you sit for 60 secs, drive under 3k for 10 minutes and then do another 2 miles that\'d be more like 15 minutes surely? I still don\'t agree with the letting the car sit for 30-60 seconds once it\'s started.
Sorry, was trying to link it up from the quote so wasnt clear. 10 minutes would be the total warming time, not 15.
1. Start the car, wait to warm up - 30~60 secs
2. Drive under 3k for a while no boost - try avoiding positive boost, let the turbos warm up(no wot for 2 miles), this would take 4 to 5 minutes
3. stay below 4k for another 2 miles(no wot), this would take another 3 to 4 minutes
4. Floor it
The total warming up time, about 10 minutes.
I didnt make these up myself. Was quoting from rotechniks. Found them quite reasonable, so followed ever since.
Cool, was there any explaination as to the benefit and reason to idle for 30-60 seconds before you pull away? I\'d be interested to know as it\'s something I\'ve never done or heard a good explaination as to why I should.
Quote from: nikpI also do not sit in my drive waiting for it to cool down for 10 minutes - i used to, but don\'t anymore. The reason you\'re meant to is that oil used to get burnt (carbonised) to the oil supply lines of the turbos when hot, but with modern turbos that are water cooled, they will cool down slowly anyway, and therefore not have this problem, so i see little point in sitting in my car for no apparent reason.
Might be worth getting a turbo timer. Think about it though, the only way the water cooling is going to have any effect on the temperature of th bearing cartridge is if the water is circulating. If you come in from a hard drive, your turbos are gonna be hotter than hell (especially since they\'re bolted to that big-ass cast iron manifold). If you just switch the engine off, then the essentially stationary coolant in the cartridge isn\'t gonna do squat (asside from getting very hot!), and if you\'re running mineral oil it\'s just gonna gradually coke up your bearings. Now if you let the coolant circulate, at least it\'s gonna carry some of the heat away from the bearing cartridge before you shut it down. Remember that the circulating oil will also have a similar effect. What\'s needed ideally is a switch to turn the fans on continuously while she\'s idling, to strip out as much heat as possible before you turn it off.
Yeah I wouldn\'t go turning the engine off straight away after a drive as wihtout fluids circulating everything will cook. I always idle for a few minutes after a drive to give the temps in the turbos time to come down by letting the oil circulate for a while. Even better I cruise around at 30mph for a few minutes before coming to a stop to help everything cool. I\'ve also got a billion variable fan controller which is fantastic. The fans come on even if the engine temps go up a bit over normal operating temperature, great at keeping the water temps constant.
Aren\'t the turbos on the FD oil, not water cooled?
Well, i still disagree.
Ok, turn the engine off straightaway. Result: no water being moved round the engine and ancillaries. Bad? Maybe - but, that also means that the hot engine that will increase the temperaturee of the coolant that is still around the engine - and therefore this hotter coolant will not be passed around the turbo\'s. Ok, but there\'s still hot coolant around the turbo\'s - well, firstly, you have that all the time anyway. Secondly, the coolant around the turbo\'s will cool down gradually, thereby allowing the oil to cool gently too - not cooling rapidly, therefore allowing the oil to bake. So, i yet to remain convinced.
However, i\'m open to opinion and well balanced argument or proven results! :D
I\'m not really sure what you\'re getting at. Think of it another way, during normal operation, why doesn\'t the oil coke up in the cartridge? Because the oil is flowing so it\'s not exposed to extremely high temperature for an extended period of time. But the oil is still degraded, just by flowing through the turbo bearings, that\'s why it\'s recommended to change the oil so frequently in a turbocharged car. So what happens when you shut your car down without giving the coolant flowing through the cartridge chance to reduce its temperature? Well, the stationary oil sat in the cartridge is just gonna turn to sh*t, I mean what\'s the temperature of the metal on the hot side of a turbo after a good run? A damn sight higher than the oil can stand that\'s for sure. And it\'s not just the turbo\'s that benefit from being allowed to cool down a bit, when the coolant stops flowing, the heat stored in the metal of the engine and the coolant in the body of the motor has no where to go...it\'s not going to be removed from the radiator via the fans, so the temp of the engine is gonna go through the roof. Remember, the rotary engine is just a big sandwich of iron and aluminium, thing\'s are gonna start to warp. No wonder coolant seals are failing all the time.
"Gsb, no beef m8, but there is a difference in sarcasm and questioning/objecting. You won\'t know the latter because you don\'t know any better." - quote
Hmmmmmmm, somebody take me back to early learning centre please as i dont understand ???? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Thats sarcasm as i dont know any better :p
Going with Nik abit on this one.
When after driving I would not really let the engine just sit there idling for a period of time really.
All that does is create more heat, \'heatsoak\', which is actually worse as it\'s building a heatsoak and not moving to get fresh air to cool/dilute.
My way is about a normal drive I just park and shut off... After a good hiding, drive off boost etc for about a mile or so then park and shut down.
Well, i don\'t kow for sure which way is better. I guess the discussion could go on for a long time. I\'ll stop arguing my side now, as this could go on for a long time. I\'m not saying I\'m wrong however, but neither am I saying you\'re wrong either!
And, yes, the previous reply wasn\'t very eloquant - but i think you got the gist of what i was trying to say!
Well that\'s what the radiator fans are for. I still maintain you\'ve gotta get the heat out of those turbo\'s before you shut her down. Like you say, driving off boost is a good way to do that, but I still think the benefits of idling for a bit with the fans running outweigh the possibilty of heatsoak, the engine\'s not gonna generate more heat idling than it would under load. What is certain is that the turbo\'s are gonna be alot hotter than the engine. Alternatively you could rig up an electric pump to circulate the coolant after the engines been shut off, perhaps in conjunction with the fans....would hammer the sh*t out of your battery tho.
To demonstrate a good example of heatsoak is as follows, but oinly works well with an aftermarket coolant temperature gauge: switch your car off after driving when the coolant temps are quite high (Not really really high though) and come back to it after 10 minutes. Switch the ignition on and you will see the temps have actually gone up. The radiator fans may even come on - thereby cooling the water in the rads, but nowhere else. If the car is started then those coolant temps come down very quickly.
I\'m not sure what I\'m proving here! :p Other than heaksoak is easily noticeable after 10 minutes of a car sitting around.
No Nik you proved it spot on really... :cool
Quote from: MillSpeedwhen the coolant stops flowing, the heat stored in the metal of the engine and the coolant in the body of the motor has no where to go...it\'s not going to be removed from the radiator via the fans, so the temp of the engine is gonna go through the roof.
You just proved my point for me, the coolant\'s gotta be flowing to remove the heat from the system (and ideally the fans have gotta be goin too!)
depends on several things, TREX said drive off boost for a mile or so, so he has in effect cooled th eengine down, like you would on a warm down lap.
But if driving hard and then stopping, you have several issues. Yes water temps will rise as will heat soak, but the rad controls that heat easily and heat soak is not a problem as you as stopping not about to blast off. Its the oil and engine materials that are the most important things, several different material used in the engine will cool at different rates, so if engine goes from 4-5k rpm to 750 for a while it gives the materials a better chance to move (shrink) at a slower rate, also oil will still be moving around and may get hotter before it cools but wont sit in a caverty boiling away because of lack of movement, and then next start up have boiled thick usless oil that wont pretect on start up.
I would air on the side of caution, its like so many things, you can abuse and see no physical difference until one day come rebuild time, when you ask yourself could I have got a few extra miles out of her.
but switching the engine off will remove the heat - the engine itself will no longer produce heat, and all components will begin to gradually start to disipapet their heat to the air around. The hot oil will slowly lower in temperature, radiating to the water, which itself will radiate out of the coolant lines into the air around.
It does not need to be pumped around the coolant system, because it does not need to remove heat from the engine any longer, as it is no longer producing any heat. The same for the turbo\'s.
I think that\'s pretty solid advice however gary: erring on the side of caution os no bad thing! It certainly won\'t do any harm, whereby turning off straightaway may do damge.
I should also notee that I don\'t turn it off straightaway after giving her a massive blast! I drive her gently on the way after wards! I just don\'t let her run sat in the driveway. The heat generated by the engine will just re-heat the oil anyway! (Have you felt some of the majoy components in the engine bay after a hard run? Wow! They are hot! So hot it\'s almost impossible to stick your hands on them for long periods of time!!)
Quote from: nikpbut switching the engine off will remove the heat - the engine itself will no longer produce heat, and all components will begin to gradually start to disipapet their heat to the air around.
So why does the temperature go up then? When you switch the engine off there\'s still a huge anount of energy stored in the system which now has nowhere to go since the coolant is no longer circulating. Granted, there\'s no more heat being introduced to the system, but it\'s also not being extracted either (not at any appreciable rate anyway). Don\'t forget the most efficient method of extracting heat from the system is through the radiator, into the cool air flowing through the radiator.
T-Rex - you seem angry about other people’s choices by suggesting that people are excessively cautious or ill informed about the best way to cherish their car. They might be wrong but by posting their methods and experiences, they inform the browser (me) about choices owners make - the same way your reply shades the opposite view perfectly rationally. Concise, accurate answers are the province of expert opinion and books rather than the internet. This post can prove that. :)
Changes in the pattern of use are probably the biggest killer of old cars and most RX7’s are getting a bit long in the tooth. Add the fact that nothing dates quicker than a prestige sports car and some will have already been through the hands of owners with insufficient money to maintain them properly â€" some may be with such owners now. (It’s not a criticism - you don\'t always have the budget for your passions.) On this basis it seems reasonable for people to exercise whatever sort of care they think works.
Does it scare people off to hear such things? As a browser myself I find it interesting, not a cause for flight. It will always be the differences that ensure the minority appeal of the car - not lack of information about how normal it is. Any non-mainstream choice, like a rotary, is harder to make. If people don’t get past the scare stories it is most likely because they don’t care to look further. In fact if you DO look hard enough at any car/engine it can start to appear fragile. (Aston blocks ‘always’ crack between cylinders. TR’s ‘must have’ a bigger oil pump fitted and Jaguar engines need to have oil leaks.) Like all good stories there’s a grain of truth in most of these ‘well known facts’ but they (like the 60k rotary threshold) were never meant to be universals when they started.
As to the modification thing - it is possible that so many owners have always had cars/engines with an electronic gateway to more performance, that some of the basic mechanical concepts do get passed over as givens. I’d agree that it is best to get what you already have running (and stopping) properly before ‘improvements.’
For any specific enquiry (putting aside the internet’s reputation as a storehouse only of truth and accuracy) I’m sure one of the engine builders on the site would give you an informed answer to your questions â€" off line. Once on-line they might be a little wary that any figure they quoted would become another “well known fact†(Albeit in total isolation from any other factor and quoted out of context for ever more until one day someone posts that their engine blew up...but its oil pressure was ‘spot on’.) :)
Jinx no need to bring my name back into it.
Seems you know not much. as for being angry, you do not know me as I am far from that.. If you paid attention on the thread you would see that because of my \'anger\' this thread has taken off and alot of good information has come out from people and it\'s a fantastic debate going on, not \'anger\'!
rgds
BTW whats your post have to do with the topic..
\'Warming up and FD?\'
rgds
Mr Angry
Sorry m8 you just wound me up, the debate was going fine and different views and infomation was coming out benifical for everyone and you had to divert because you are angry for something.. ;)
Quote from: TRexSorry m8 you just wound me up, the debate was going fine and different views and infomation was coming out benifical for everyone and you had to divert because you are angry for something.. ;)
It appears this is easy to do.
Play nice, chaps...
The 8\'s manual recommends idling for 30 seconds or so on a cold start, to give the oil a chance to get round all the trick bits, and that must go double for turbo cars.
And cooling down, like several have said, you need airflow for even cooling really, and it\'s not just the engine - brakes, drivetrain, cat if you have one. It\'s not just the heat-soak that\'s the problem, it\'s hot-spots developing because the parts fully exposed to cool air will cool faster than the parts in the heart of the engine bay, and that\'s how cracks and warping happen. (Esp brake rotors.)
Rotaries don\'t really do idle either, so much healthier all around if you drive off-boost (or off-aux-ports in my case) for the last few miles.
QuoteDon\'t forget the most efficient method of extracting heat from the system is through the radiator, into the cool air flowing through the radiator.
Sorry - not quite with you there. Don\'t take it the wrong way - just bit confused as to what you mean.
Basically a radiator is a heat exchanger. Is exchanges the heat from the coolant to the cool ar surrounding it. That\'s one of the reasons why the stock intercooler is not so good - because it is located after the radiator where only the hot air is - and that\'s why there is ducting introduced, so that the can try and get as much cool air into it as possible....
I\'m just waffling now! :p
Ha ha, fair do\'s TRex, this place would be a lot less interesting without you around to perk people up a bit from time to time! Keep it up you crazy mofo! ;)
SO to warm up an fd.here`s what i do.
start car and get ready with your seatbelt,cd`s and so on... takes about 30sec. Drive under 3000rmp with no boost for 10mins. After this time gradually increae boost to blow all the **** out the cat and engine.
To cool down after heavy boosting i take it easy for a good 2miles with no boost at all
with air con switched on and the fan switch mod turned on (this way 2 fans are blowing through the rad)
after the steady drive home i park up and switch off because i know for sure that the engine has had a good cool down period.
this procedure has done me well since owning the car on the original engine with no water leaks.
Robbie-RX7 for president, I say!
I was just saying that you\'re gonna shift more heat from the system by circulating coolant through the radiator and fans, than relying on convection and radiation to remove the heat from the block/turbos after you\'ve shut it down. Hot air behind the rad is good, (well, not for the intercooler) it show\'s the rad is working. zevans made a good point, you don\'t want your coolant getting too hot after you shut the motor down, otherwise you\'ll start to get localised boiling and hot spots developing, which is defo not a good thing for a rotary. Sometimes you\'ll hear the b*stard bubbling after you shut it down.
like you said before, it would be best to have an electric water pump, but on the other hand i dont fully trust electric motors for doing the job reliable ennough,SO it would be great if you could have a mechanical water and oil pump, but when you turn off the ignition, the electric water+oil pump kicks in to keep things circulating nicely..problem is that with an electric oil pump pumping oil through a non moving engine sounds a bit risky..perhaps pumping oil through the turbo lines would be better.
haha, yeah I\'ve got to agree with that one. TRex posting and appearing to be slightly miffed off got me involved in this thread and I\'m glad that he did. So thanks TRex :wave
When I was last at WGT I was speaking to Pip about the issue of cooling a rotary down after driving. He basically said that if I\'ve been going hell for leather for a long period of time I definitely shouldn\'t just park it. Best to give it about 5 minutes of off boost running at about 30mph if possible and then about a minute of idle before shutting off. If you\'ve just been driving but nothing too crazy then just a bit of idle to take a bit of heat out of the turbos should be fine. He also warned me not to overdo it as too much idling would just lead to heatsoak and do more harm than good.
and too much idling from cold causes more carbon build up
Think I\'ve come to this thread a bit late, but I\'m going to add my tuppence worth in. To warm up nothing special really drive off but keep off boost until a mile or so after the water temp is up to 80C. Then anything goes.
To cool down I drive gently for 3 - 4 miles again off boost with air con on full, heat up to take as much heat out of the rad as poss. Arrive at destination turn engine off. If I\'ve been giving it some stick, I\'ll leave the ignition so that I can check the water temp (air con still on at this point taking heat out of the rad still). Once the temp gets to high 90\'s I turn the engine back on for 30 seconds or so to let the cooler water from the rad circulate round the engine. After this the water temp usual drops considerably so I turn off and leave car.
Hope I don\'t get flamed but it works for me.
Barry
As a guide i watched the water temp to see where the oil temp is, so ,
@ 70oC water, oil was @ 45oC
Water maxed out @ 75oC after about 8 mins oil was @ 70oC.
Just a guide as once water reached temp it doesn\'t mean the oilis up to temp.
gurj...was that normal drivin or caning it? must get better water temp gauge and fluidididididine radiator ..oh and an alu ast :yes
Just normal driving, 30 mph to the gym.
I dont do any quick driving till oil is up to 70oC.
Im gona say this and I dont thick TREX will take offence. Everyone has a different take on the way people post, sometimes Ive typed out, posted and can see how Ive been abrupt without meaning to. I have see this on lots of occassions with TREX\'s posts. I have never meet TREX but Im sure he is a great guy, that just says what he thinks/means without any offence meant. Can we all just not read in to posts what we think but think what might have been meant. Its just that Ive seen several posts/threads end up with people taking sides and usually against TREX.
It is good that we all have our opinions and it keeps some of these mas-debates ;-) healthy.
Back to my slarnt.
Its not going to be a hard and fast rules, if youve just been to work or tootling around because of traffic you are probably not going to need to warm down your car and no harm will be done, this cars cant be that fragile. But if youve given it a hard time then some warm down driving will be required before turning off, if you get sufficient warm down driving then just turning off probably wont do it any harm. If youve just come off the motorway, track or similar then I think it absolutely essential you cool her down before turning off.
Part of the reason for cooling down is not just to cool the engine its to cool it slowly. If you have cained her and generally temps are high, and you run her on tick over the area will cool down it wont go high. When you start your car it will go from cold to a opt heat range it wont go off the scale, if it does you have lots of problems. But generally it will reach a point and stay there. So when you park up your temp will be high and will go down to opt heat range, then once switched off it will cool down more. Oil is the most important cooling agent you have not water, one cant live without the other but the oil will cool engine parts more efficiently, so if left running the oil is still circulating and doing its job, and not degrading in to the tar like substance you dont want. Another reason for cooling down after a hard run is that diff materials cool down at different rates, and this is probably the most important reason for doing it. I was out with a friend in his helecopter and even he does cool down after a flight, not because the engine is hot but because of the different rate different materials expand and contarct.
As I say it depends on how you have just driven it, but if you have a timer then era on caution and use it.
It also highlights the use of a good engine oil, not just something because its cheap.
Quote from: RobbieRX-7SO to warm up an fd.here`s what i do.
start car and get ready with your seatbelt,cd`s and so on... takes about 30sec. Drive under 3000rmp with no boost for 10mins. After this time gradually increae boost to blow all the **** out the cat and engine.
To cool down after heavy boosting i take it easy for a good 2miles with no boost at all
after the steady drive home i park up and switch off because i know for sure that the engine has had a good cool down period.
QUOTE]
Well well, tell me again how complicated we can all make a simple question ;) , blimey its a good job someone doesn\'t ask for an answer for the meaning of life :rollin :rollin
Seriously, If you have any mechanical sympathy for your car be it Rotary or Boinger Robbie\'s right, its as simple as he puts it.
No need for Turbo timers just a bit of consideration for things that go round and round very very fast and get very very hot but also need to be at their optimum temperature to operate efficiently and safely thus reducing the risk of breakage and wear .
p.s. why do woman make good Drag racers, its because teams found that when they put them in cars they just did as they were told, i.e. " do this and do that and it goes fast" but they found they did it with no mechanical sympathy for their vehicle at all !
That\'s it l\'ve had me fun, I\'ll get me coat now, but one day we must start a Thread asking if anyone knows the meaning of life :) , bye :wave .
Glad to know that I said the same on the very first page of posts! :wiggle :bandit