juat a quick 1 what is the most you can get out of an rx and keep it road legal.(bhp)?
I am planning on getting a pree modded 1 for around £13.000 some time next year,would this get me somthing that would be good on a dragway up with supras and SKYLINERS,but still be good for road use? or would by making it good for a dragway make it unable to drive on a road?
Well theoretically you can run as much hp as you want depending on mods, but buying one already done doesnt leave much scope for getting your own spec so you\'ll have to go with what you can find. 400 should be findable though on that kind of budget.
Obviously the higher its tuned the more maintenance needed over a standard car. They should still be driveable on the road no problems.
Beating a Supra on a drag strip shouldnt be a problem, but you will find it hard to beat a Skyline as the launch determines the time and they have 4WD. EG with only 150bhp at the wheels my Pulsar was in the high 13\'s for a stock car, which would trouble a lot of RX7\'s. Its possible to make a lot of time with suspension set up to get more grip off the line.
Cheers
Lee
thanks for that i\'m new to all this so i\'m just trying to find the best way to get what i want with out to much fuss.The way i was thinking if i got 1 that had already been moded then it would cost me less than getting 1 for say £8.000 and adding the mods my self 400s not bad was hoping for 600 but thats prob in my little fanticy world.i got a book rx-7 performance handbook so i have been looking at the chassis and suspension setups just trying to take it all in bit by bit thanks for the info :D
YEp, getting a car with a lot of mods already will save you a fair few quid. But the down side is you dont get to select them, nor do you know how well they\'ve been put together and subsequently looked after. Obviously a car with a lot of mods is not likely to have lived an easy life which added to the fact that lots of FD\'s dont seem to like sailing here doesnt equal much hope of years of happy motoring ;)
Also, dont forget that a mod\'d FD will need retuning when it gets here as it\'ll have been mapped on jap fuel which can go as high as 103 octane as opposed to our measely 98...
Finally, a 600 horse FD would be an animal to drive much on the street. I\'ve been in a \'98 which was initially dyno\'d at 409ATW and it flys; it WILL kill most things on the road without really stretching its legs.
A stock car will do between 13.5 and 14.5 on the 1/4 depending on year and tyres. A few mods will get you in the mid/early 13\'s. I have a single turbo (which isnt big enough I dont think) 13B half bridgeport running about 13psi on any Unleaded and premix on loan from the guy that does the spanner work on my car; dunno what it makes ATW, 350? - no idea really - but its run a 12.37 1/4 at 123mph which will despatch a lot of cars on the roads today. Hopefully more to come too. It\'s a bit lumpy on idle and a little loud (and uneconomic :D ) but otherwise its fine around town...
Just dont buy an FD with loads of mods at auction and expect to have cheap tarmac shredder; they need looking after alot. When you buy an FD budget for an engine in the price and you shouldnt shed too many tears too soon...
R.:wave ;)
thanks 20b got me thinking now :D + better satisfaction from doing it your self as well.think i could be jumping right in without looking at what i am landing on.
so in all i would be better off getting a car for say £8000 then find a good tuning shop that manly does fd\'s tell them what i want and work my way up :D
If you were going to have it built anyway then id say get one with a blown engine for 4k, and then at least you will know what has been done.
Trouble is once you start adding the cost of parts up you realise that even starting at 4k you dont get that far and think about a ready built one again.
Cheers
Lee
I agree Lee, get a dead un if you can for 2 or 3 K.
I think you are better off getting a modded car from Japan, yet thats what forums are for differing opinions.:)
I have yet to see a problematic fd that has not been remapped to uk fuel, I also have yet to see a well proven fd modded for serious power in UK and maintain the same level of reliability that is found in Japan, Australia etc.
For this reason I would much rather buy one already done in Japan than over here because that\'s where the experience is. IMO
rgds
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
How many FD motors have gone pop in a short space of time since arriving here from Japan? Loads!! Every time I go to Geffs there is pretty much without fail at least one car their dead waiting for a rebuild...
These cars die from detonation. It doesnt take much to chip or crack a seal. Run a car thats been mapped on 103 hard and you\'re asking for trouble IMO, regardless of how well tuned it was from Japan. Surely running a car tuned perfectly on 103 without booster on 97 or 98Ron is as bad as a less than perfect tune done on our shitty pump fuel? When you need it most the protection that extra octane provides isnt there and *ping*.....
JMO :)
R.
If alot of fd\'s go bang when they get here do you have proof this is directly related to the kind of fuel being used ?
rgds
Nope, not at all. If a seal is chipped etc from detonating though isnt it likely that either the tuning is out or fuel isnt good enough? Especially if we are talking stock cars with stock ecu\'s - which the majority are I guess. There are many reasons for it I\'m sure, but I think octane is certainly one of them. I think this is a view Carl may be shares? Detonation is the reason that a major proportion of FD\'s die (outside of higher mileage issues) - wouldnt you agree Bri? reducing octane decreases survivability - thats a fact isnt it?
Let the debate continue mate :)
R.
Look at buget.
I have have spent enough to buy a fleet of 7\'s having it done how I want it, and have no complaints, but if to do it all again I would go down the buy in Japan route and get it tested and mapped once here. 15k for a good un from Japan or 30k do have it done here.
Why do most people sell there cars here or in Japan, coz they have had the best out of it and want to sell before it pops.
Notice I put most not meaning all before I get flamed. There are some genuine cars out there.
Just be carefull, check every thing and buy from someone you trust, ie recommedation, and leave the rest to lady luck.
Yes & Yes,
I tend to lean on the fence of tuning insufficent fueling etc rather than the difference between 100 octane which most Jap cars run on and 98 octance shell optimax. I really don\'t think that difference in octane is detrimental as long as everything else is right.
:)
I\'m with Gary on the basis that when I want a serious modded fd rather get it built etc over here I would rather buy from Japan instead.
rgds
My point is that if the car is tuned based on the anti knock properties of a higher grade of fuel then?? the car may have enough fuel chucked in to prevent pinging on 100/103 octane but running the same map on less protective fuel...
Why do so many stock cars from japan blow up not long after they get here - I\'m not saying its the only reason but I think its contributory...
Why did UK cars have 237bhp? I know they had precat etc but were the ecu\'s programmed different for the fuel here?
This is an interseting topic I think, which could be debated forever. I hope a few of the real techies comment at some point.
Cheers Bri,
Rich
Also if you do buy a modded FD from japan (or anywhere for that matter) and it does go pop you\'ll still be left with all the ancillaries - ECU, turbo setup etc. which cost a lot to upgrade a standard car to.
Err, unless you lose the seals out the exhaust port and they destroy the contents of your T51SPL\'s exhaust housing!!!
Gutted!
R.
exactly, biggest money spent is not on engine but on ancillerys and tuning.
mmmmmmmmmm this is all very confusing (going way over my head now) but this is how i see it form knowing nothing about the import biz and fd\'s in gen.
if you get 1 on the cheep to diy your self this will cost you much more than getting 1 already dun from japan and although you know what you have dun to it does not meen it is any more reliyable as you still do not know what the last oner had dun to it as could of thrashed the hell out of it,so you could spend all that £££ and it still go the same way.(bang)
now if you get 1 brought in for you i would of thought the importer and the people he works with out there would or should know enough about what they are buying if he is not dogy getting any old thing,and as this seems like quite a close nit world where it seems all the rx-7 oners and buyers are all on here ,selling people tat that goes bang as soon as ya get home would not keep them open for long.+ i would of also thought that the importer /seller would of remaped the fule to uk spek and added it to the price of the car to save the buyer some time and hastle.
i think ither way you look at it it\'s a dubble edge sword and the only way to stay on the right side of it is to find an importer that workes with you to find what you are looking for and some 1 that that realy has a pastion for what they are doing and the cars he or she is selling but finding some 1 like that could be tricky as well so it\'s realy all down to luck :confused:
I have been looking at importing an FD for myself and would say that the importers that I have dealt with through this forum have been superb, PCCarter tried his best to get a car I may like and BNA Ellis also put a lot of effort into finding out what I would want (his conntact in Japan owns and runs a modded FD in Japan). So I think you could, through the right people end up with a reliable enough car to the spec you want.. My 2p (might be equivalent to two yen but hey you never know!!!!)
Cheers
nope 2p is about 3.8 yen:D :D
QuoteOriginally posted by richrx
nope 2p is about 3.8 yen:D :D
My Point exactly :D :D it may be worth less than 2p:cool
mmmmmmmmmm i must say buying a pree tuned car from jp still sounds better to me and if big importers are on here and and still bringing them in then what they sell must be good ta go or they would not be around
oh the opitmax thing i have friends with tuned cars that run on it and friends that don\'t the 1\'s that do run with it seem to have less probs than them that don\'t (not all of these cars are from jp and i think any tuned car should be running on it from what i have seen,but your the lads that know as i am just a beginner at all this so ill :god to what ever you think best :D
On the optimax side I know a couple of guys that own modded skylines and they dont roast the car unless they have Optimax and octane booster in the car because of the problems it could cause, dont know how this affects rotarys (because I don\'t have one yet) but thats what they swear for the boingers
if I were buying one now, I\'d buy a dog (blown engine, dodgy paintwork), and spend the rest doing it up.
I figure £3k for the car, £3.5 for the engine, £2.5k for the respray,
£2k for the wheels
11k total for a complete car that is fresh, new, unique and reliable.
I know there will be some ancilliaries, and the cost will probably be closer to £15k in the end if you get the extra\'s, but I\'m talking about a basic car that will be stunning.
((p.s. mail clive with the subject OJ FOR CHIT-CHAT MODERATOR))
Higher octane fuel is only needed when a car has been tuned to need it. The reason higher octane fuel is needed is to resist detonation. The octane number can be used as a guide to its ability to resist knock.
If an RX has been mapped to say, 2 or 3 degrees more advance than is safe on our 98 ron fuel then it may blow due to this. It may however have been fine on the japs higher octane fuel.
When many of the highly modded stuff comes over they often have ECUs where you cannot see what advance they are running. Although if it has a power FC, you can see how advanced it is and then drop it back, depending on how advanced it is. Although then you have to consider whether all not the motor as been ported (which you may not know) as this also affects the amount of advance you can run.
Modded cars from Japan are an absolute bargain. Single turbo conversions and body kits are very expensive, so the savings are immense. I think the best thing to do is have the car checked over when it gets here, perhaps have a wide band put on it and check it is set-up right.
so an improter could not check it there to save time insted of doing it here + i\'m with you it must be the way to go things cost so much in the uk anyway to do all the addons your self,well it\'s made my mind up anyway import it is
I am of the opinion that most modified FD\'s that come into the country were running on higher octane fuel in Japan.
Even if you change the timing of the engine that may not prevent it from detonating if the fueling and boost is not also changed.
I would like to know who get\'s the "Bargain Car",is that the importer or the customer.
What is the price for a modified single turbo good condition mid 90\'s car to people here and what sort of engine warranty would I get if I bought one?
If I were to buy an FD with a dead engine here that was reasonably tidy for about 3500 pounds(this is a realistic price) then get it built to the same spec it would probably cost similar money but would have a rebuilt engine and lots of other new components,I am not talking of body kits here, as you can buy a dead car with bodykits here too.but what I am saying is that if the cost to the customer is taken into consideration and not the price landed for the importer then it is probably about even.
You can get a GT 35/40 single turbo(good for 500 hp)put on for around 4000 pounds.Then you need to add an ECU like an Apexi power FC for lets be over the top 1000 pounds.
Engine rebuilt and ported 4000 pounds.12 month warranty@450 hp
Exhaust uprated 700 pounds
Front mount intercooler 800 pounds
Water injection 400 pounds fitted
Uprated injectors and fuel pump say 700 pounds fitted
Mapping 500 pounds.A few guages too.
Lets say 15000 pounds all up( a bit over the top) with the spec you want.This is based on the car having a few goodies like aftermarket wheels a bit of a bodykit or spoiler or the like.
On the other hand the alternative is a car with lots of goodies that are all used and unknown as to how old they are,they may have even been on another car before you bought it and the engine may have even been in another car too.
This is a tricky one but I am keenly interested in the warranty on a modified import?Also the customer may have bought a 500 hp car that now can only safely produce 400 hp here.
Hope that this generates some positive feedback.
Kind regards
Carl
:)
mmmmmmmmm i\'m still slitly confuesed here so what about another way not getting an import not getting a shed and adding ya own bits but getting 1 from on here that people know is a good car that say some 1 is selling because of lets say having a kid and need the cash could this not be a good way and cut out a lot of probs as peolpe on here could stear you away from 1 they know is a bit duff exe
In aword Craig "YES"
That would be a good plan.There are often cars that come up that have just had an engine rebuild.
Try to join FDUK,you do not have to be an FD owner,just looking to get one.,it is a forum run by Henning Percy,a very helpful chap as a Yahoo group.Look up FDUK on the web.
Another thing that is good is to buy a car with a dead engine and get it rebuilt to the spec that you want ie:ported and the like but not uprate the rest of the ancillaries like turbo until you have a bit more money,a sort of rolling project that spreads the cost over time.Also it means that you could do more on your car than you might have thought originally.Many people are doing just that.
If you were to buy an import with all the goodies on it then you could allways run a better fuel such Cool Blue that 76 make,it is more expensive than pump fuel but can be mixed into pump fuel to up the octane.By itself it\'s octane (RON)is 106.
Clive Haynsford in the club can source it for you through his company called "Shy" see shyauto.com
Kind regards
Carl
mmmmmmmmmm funny realy all ways sound good being young i\'m wanting every thing like yesterday if ya know what i meen doing 1 bit by bit does sound good and would help me learn more about the workings of the car + by doing that it poses another prob i live in york where there does not seem to be anything in the way of peeps that just manly do fd\'s from what i have found on the net anyway tuning wise.i have joined fduk so will try and use it more as the fule thing does sound good and would prob help alot of my friends out as well :D thanks for that.i\'m just trying to work all theses things out for next year when then i will be 25 and in a better postion to get my fd so atleast i have time to think and talk to people that know and have lived through doing all the diff ways of getting 1 set up from importing to diy thank you for and every 1 for your posts thank you :wave :D
I would like to say is that all the people on this forum who import cars are real enthusiasts for the rotary and will help you with the car as much as possible.
Also another area of modding to be considered is suspension and brakes to handle the extra power safely.
This to is expensive but may be already done on the car you are considering,whatever it may be,an import or a dead one.Well you get the drift.
Kind regards
Carl;)
Add brakes, suspension, fitting for intercooler exhaust etc you that up and it still comes to more than getting it from Japan, and that don\'t even include the price of the car yet that\'s just the parts and half of them not even fitted. It\'s impossible for it be just as cost effective over compared to buying from Japan. I don\'t mean from an importers perspective but from a customers.
rgds
yer i have been reading up on that allready just learning as i go along :) it will all work out in the end and this does seem to be the place and people to be talking to :)))
The worst part is not so much how much the parts cost but it\'s the fitting of the parts that really add up the total. However this does depend on where the car is taken for work to be done, but this country is a right rip off when dealing with aftermarket items.
customs, shipping fitting etc.
rgds
true :( only way it can be in the uk though it takes the piss realy
That is presuming that the car you are buying to modify is bog standard which can be picked up for 2500 pounds easily with a blown motor,as we know there are many partly modded cars already here and they sell reasonably cheap when the engine and turbo blows up.
Price on exhaust and intercooler includes fitting.
Plus don\'t forget that your car has secondhand hand parts on it.
Don\'t get me wrong Brian,I know you take great care over the cars you source,and I would reccomend you to anyone.
Put up a couple of example prices and specs for us to see please.
Kind regards
Carl
And the warranty please Brian.
Thanks
Carl
Hi Carl,
I understand equality in price if someone buy\'s a cheap engine blown rx7, I was calculating on the basis someone bought a car in good working order which is gonna cost depending on year lets say 7k and then start modding.
Here\'s one I have forsale for an example. of costs
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1690
rgds
Very nice Brian,
As I said you source good cars.
I would think with fresh engine you could do a longer warranty.
Price is good to.
Kind regards
Carl:)
You May be interested to know that I have developed an exhaust system for the FD that is very high flowing but not too loud especially for the modified scene.
It gives a pleasant deep tone with without the raspiness usually associated with the rotary.
Kind regards
Carl
I kind of hope no one buy\'s it so I can sell mine and keep this for myself:D
rgds
I Would like to see it if you have a mind Brian.
And you too of course.Go on,you know you want to keep it!
Kind regards
Carl
Funny Carl,
we were talking tonight at the southern area meet and I was saying I have a car in stock with full re-amemiya exhaust system downpipe , midpipe,back box and it is almost as quiet as stock, I couldn\'t believe it. I kno wthey have a rep in Japan quiet but good flowing exhaust but this is something else. Only problem it costs a bomb to buy. I knew you were developing a syatem I did not realise you had it all complete. I\'m sure you\'ll save people alot of hassle trying to get their fd on the track.
rgds
That is the plan as I know how hard it is to get them under the noise limits.
I had the system on Clives single turbo which is very noisy and ported too.
I got 105 DB on the sound meter measured as per usual method but in the car it is pretty quiet,That will get you onto quite a few tracks but not all,some work to do still.
The system is 3 inches straight through all the way so the flow is excellent.
I think on the twin turbo cars it will be really quiet.I have yet to test it but am confident.
Kind regards
Carl
do you have any sound clips of it ?
Hi Craig,
No I don\'t ,I have not thought of that but when we get this in full swing then I may just do that.
Kind regards
Carl
cool sounds good ta me hope i get ta hear it pic would be nice as well but maby to much to ask :D