Mazda Rotary Club

The FC 100mph challenge

As we have had a few people asking if they can enter too we thought we had better come up with a set of rules to keep the competition fair.

Rules of entry

1) Only Mazda Rx7\'s with an FC chassis number are eligible for entry.
2) Only cars running the 13B or 13BT engine are eligible for entry.
3) Turbo charged cars MUST run with standard internals.
4) Turbo cars must run with the standard Turbo.
5) Turbo cars must run with the Top mount intercooler in place.
6) N/A cars may run with mild street porting and Baffels removed.
7) All cars must run with stock FC gearboxes and differentials.
8) All cars must be in full street trim. (Ie no stripped interiors)
9) All cars must have a valid MOT certificate.
10) No drag tyres.
11) No nitrous oxide systems.

 These rules are by no means exhaustive, but will not be added to or changed without prior consultation with the entrants.
 
 Another more unofficial rule is that you must stick to a sensible budget, I doubt Stu and I will have spent more than £500-£750 on modding our cars, we request you do the same.  
 All entrants must submit a full spec of their car, on this thread no later than 2 weeks before Rotorstock 3 takes place.
 All entrants cars will be inspected for safety and foul play before they take to the strip.

How the competition will work

 All cars will have a maximum of 3 runs on the day.  After these runs the winner will be the person who has either
                                     A) Broken the 100mph TS
                                          or if more than 1 person breaks 100mph
                                     B) Achieved the fastest TS over 100mph

  In the event of a tie the winner will be determined by ET, then fastest reaction time.

 I doubt there is going to be much of a prize, but there is a lot of pride at stake here.  This is as much about ingenuity and determination as it is looking for a winner.

 Good luck, play safe and have fun!

 Brett  :3gears-rh

you seem to have 2 rule 3s!

I guess I\'m not eligible under rule 3 (the first one ), rule 4 (soon) and rule 7! oh well I\'ll just have to run for fun then! lol

i like it brett - i really do

made sticky :)

£500 - £700 yeah right - more like under £100 for me :) LOL

Whats a standard terminal?  Wouldnt of thought it far off 100 in the first place?

low to mid 90\'s

my best was 91 and 93

at 15.07 and above :(

that was a STOCK car apart from the main decat removed ... its changed a bit since then but didnt run at RSII

Its the change from 3rd to 4th that kills the TS, see the main thread in chit chat :D

so i suppose my kaaz diff puts me out? I would have joined by then too :(

can i enter my fb 12a?

Ollie

sorry matey - FC only

or so brett says !!

but its old and only 1200cc and no lsd!

How come only FC. i could understand if it was fd.........

Scott

hang on chaps :)

anyone can run the strip as RSIII

brett is just trying to get the FC guys to run - there was only 3 that run last year ( maybe 4 ) - rest were FD\'s

this is just a little compo for the FC guys

it wont effect how RSIII is run - its just for a little fun :D

and a stock FD will run 100mph + anyways !!

I Know. Borgue is running a FB tho.

Scott

What is you definition of Std? Does this mean mazda\'s own or Bolt ons? (Filters,Exhausts Ems?)

I don\'t quite understand if you say standard? I can\'t think of anyone off hand that has not got a Aftermarket part fitted? or had there engine rebuilt useing Fd seals etc does this mean they can\'t run?

I think you need to make it clear what is and isn\'t par for the course. I know its for fun an all but whats stopping somone fitting a Fuel Computer and injectors and running 20psi on a stock car with cats etc?

If not are you promoting unsafe tuning? bolt ons without Ems mods?

CLARIFICATION.

Basically Turbo charged cars must run with standard engine internals, intercooler and turbo.  So aftermarket exhausts, filters, bov\'s, boost controllers, FCD, Fuel computer etc are allowed.  However the turbocharged cars are NOT allowed to run any kind of porting either on the inlet or on the exhaust.
 
 As stated in the rules above, this little comp is for the 2nd generation rx7 only, if we open it up to other versions of the rx7 (and the hybrids etc) then it will not be a very close competition.  I envisage most cars being within 2-3mph of each other and probably with bhp within 5% of each other.

 Grizzly, there is nothing stopping someone whacking the boost up and fitting some additional injectors, but bear in miind most of us mod our FC\'s on a shoe string so I doubt anyone will do that.  But if they do then fair play to them, but I dont think I\'d like to squeeze 20psi through a stock engine......

So what you are saying NO porting!! so any other mod like 2pc seals or Oiling mods are ok?

"but I dont think I\'d like to squeeze 20psi through a stock engine......"

But this is within the rules? (20psi was an example of course you would not need that to do the Job)

How would water Injection stand? Or Race fuel?

hummm seemed to have gained an interest of a few peeps here

so you thinking of running chris ??

Quote from: sdminusI Know. Borgue is running a FB tho.

Scott

This was started by FC enthusiasts, for FC\'s.
There arent many that run at R/Stock so just a bit of FC fun.
Borgue wont be running in the FC challenge, BUT
the pair of you could organise your own challenges.
Why dont you both have a FB & FD challenge.
Make some simple rules and post to see if you get any interest.
Then at R/Stock 3 more race entries can be made. The 1st, 2nd & 3rd gen challenge.
Last yr Scott you did have your own challenge, which FB & FC were not allowed in "the fastest stock FD"
Have fun with this, it could be a real laugh.

^ what he said :D

Quote from: grinderso you thinking of running chris ??

I think i will be bussy whith my Vert, but 100 doesn\'t seem a too unrealistic target. But even though you think its going to be close or a Buget thing if you get the right intrest you can get good power on a Stock engine and Turbo with water injection to compensate for the lack of IC.

I think it will be down to who has the best condition engine and Turbo running the most boost. O and a bit of Driver skill to get it off the line with those skinny wheels and maybe a bit of Research into tweeking stock engines.;)

Chris

lets not be too competative lads. i dont know if my car is going to make it the whole 1/4 mile nevermind gettin a 100mph terminal!!

i wouldnt mind joining in on the fun tho, only to see what the 1/4 mile on my car is.

but expect the following mods

1. full stainless 3" exhaust - no cat!
2. FCD
3. stripped out car

Has anyone figured out what sort of time you would need to pull to do 100mph terminal? i\'m guessing v-low 14\'s high 13\'s. Does this sound about right?

Er...Stripped out cars are NOT allowed within the rules.
From the evidence I\'ve seen a 100mph TS has an ET anywhere from the Mid 13\'s upto the mid 14\'s.
 Water injection is allowed, however for those running Turbo charged cars:-

 CLARIFICATION

 All Turbo Charged cars must run with std engine internals and no porting of any kind.

 I know its going to take some time to sort out all the niggles and loopholes in the rules, however I\'m hoping that people will try to stay within the spirit of the rules and not exploit any loop holes created by my shocking levels of incompetence!

ha ha ha i think people are gonna try and find loads of loop holes to be honest matey

the biggest question i have is

"how many FC\'s will be at RSIII"

^LoL!

 \'Book them, they will come\'

:D

I think its open to interpretation, There is a large margine between a Tuned (stock Turboe+engine) car and a Stocker. So i would say the Closest to 100mph terminal speed wins? then it makes it more fair and harder to compete as its not about who can make most power from a stock engine? Wouldn\'t that eliminate any loop holes?

If it is done like that the big boys can play too!! ;)

TBH (This is just me, if the general consensus is to let the \'big boy\'s\' play with us then so be it) I dont want the Big Boys coming over here, taking my lunch money etc.  If I have.had a car thats capable of doing 12.5sec qtrs with a TS of 120+ then all I have to do is watch the speedo and peg my accel at the 100mph point. I\'ve won.  Doesnt seem fair to include that kind of car against the ones that will struggle to make 100mph in the first place.
:)

Quote from: BrettEr...Stripped out cars are NOT allowed within the rules.

Seems a bit silly to me - stripping a car is definitely a low-cost option and exactly what you SHOULD be doing for 1/4 miles!

I should start a thread for RS-III and try and drum up a bit of Renesis business really...

I know its one of the esiest ways to gain an advantage, but the idea behind it was that basically it had to be in its orgional trim with no huge mods.

fair enough.

*grumble about not being able to remove me back seats*

You can remove them, just make sure they are back in for the run :)

lol very clever brett. we got a date for this yet?

RS3 mate, next May!  You have plenty of time  :D

I think the not stripped out is a bit unfair, after all I was running mine for a year with no back seats or carpets and I would say it is perfectly road useable! lol I can understand the no major mods thing as it is a cheap project type competition, but if it is road legal and REGULARLY used in the same state as it is run down the strip on the road why not include stripped out cars (still doesn\'t include me :-( but hey ho)

Because there are somepeople who want to take part who, for one reason or another cannot strip out the interior, so they would be at a disadvantage straight away.

fair enough, I agree that the car should be run down the strip in the same fettle as it is used on the road so if there are people who need to keep their interiors in place for daily use then it is fair to set that as a rule (if however someone had already stripped the car out and wanted to run, could they run with ballast - fastened obviously- to even the score)?

brett i didnt realise were going to have scrutineering lol. i should have it on the road by then!

:D  Minimal scrutineering TBH, after if someone has ported their engine and not said it should become apparant when they knock spots off of everyone else, and of course the idle if its a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge port.
 Ballast would be hard to do, after all, how much does the FC interior way?  And giving somoene a 30kg block of lead gives them an advantage/disadvantage with weight distribution.

I could weigh my interior which is in the shed! lol Doesn\'t make any difference for me as I said, I\'ll have a go, but obviously I won\'t be included in the competition due to the porting and I should have FMIC and hopefully an new turbo by then!

Just to bring this back to date.
Who is planning on entering?  We have about 6 months left to get this sorted.

So far I think the runners are :-

TURBOIINUTTAH
GRINDER
BRETT
GRIZZLEY
SHORTCIRCUIT
?

i\'m in  :yes  (thats if the engine is still in one piece)time to see what extra power I can squeze out .

Might be an idea if everyone who is entering can post the spec of their car.
I\'ll go first!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model :- Turbo II
Year :- 1991 H
Mods :-  
             Knightsports FBCD
             PanSpeed chipped JDM spec ECU
             Blitz BOV
             K&N panel filter
             3" Straight through exhaust system

196bhp at the wheels (Prior to ECU swap)
240ft lb torque
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You should edit your post when/if you make changes to the car.

model - turbo II (JDM) 1991

• blitz air filter or standard air box with hks filter (can\'t decide which to use)
• blitz id boost controller and power meter
• decat exhaust and after market system
• 100122 km on clock so engine well run in !!!!

Didnt spot this so i will add my car :-

H Reg TII
106K On the clock
Dodgy Clutch
Play in Turbo
Blitz Induction Kit
Main Cat and Pre Cat Removed
FCD
Blitz BOV
Not sure if to run with the SAFCII or the Blitz MFCS yet ???

RSI - i got a 15.03 @ 91mph ( althought the fastest speed was 93.xx .. )

Just to spice things up a bit I have run a 14.5 1/4 at 98 mph in a stock engined FC Cabriolet about 4 or 5 years ago.
The only mods were a complete racing beat exhaust and a pretty serious launch.No ECU\'s,No porting,no water injection.The engine had done 50,000 miles.
My Brother ran a 14.4 on the same day in the same car with a 93 mph terminal.
Now the really interesting things is that my Bro weighed 20 stone at the time,and I was 15 stone.
Make of that what you will,but it shows that it should be possible with minimal mods to achieve the 100 mph terminal at RS3.
Hopefully this will encourage a few.
Regards
Carl

i like it carl !!

gives us food for thought :D

humph! I\'m not allowed to play in this game :-( as according to the rules my car is too far from stock! Please let me play, I\'m rubbish at starts

mods:
stripped interior
1/2 bridgeport
FMIC
Microtech LT10s ECU
decat + SS 2.5" exhaust
Koni adjustables + Pi springs

at RSII I ran a 15.4 at 92mph on stock ECU and stock IC (as the turbo is still stock, I don\'t see me improving too much on that!)

I\'ll play.
Std Series 5 atmo
Slipping clutch (Ill fix it when it is above -5 outside!).
FACTORY Exhaust (And airpump pipe!)
Does wanky Mudflaps ,Rear Konis and a Sparco steering wheel count me out?

4 " turbo back exahust
100mm ali pipe from turbo to big front mount ic to inlet - made today!
engine not built yet 3mm tips ported and dowelled
hks t51r
2 walbro pumps with in car tank
stripped fiberglass bonnet
perspex windows
fd diff
i need ecu and injectors
carl i got the engine into work and had a quick look at apex seals through exahust port today, only 1 seal has slightly mushroomed over, all the rest i can push in and out of grooves, do u think the housing will be damaged?
im hoping to be going to shakespear test and tune in march if anyone fancys it

Quote from: stuart wizy4 " turbo back exahust
100mm ali pipe from turbo to big front mount ic to inlet - made today!
engine not built yet 3mm tips ported and dowelled
hks t51r
2 walbro pumps with in car tank
stripped fiberglass bonnet
perspex windows
fd diff
i need ecu and injectors
carl i got the engine into work and had a quick look at apex seals through exahust port today, only 1 seal has slightly mushroomed over, all the rest i can push in and out of grooves, do u think the housing will be damaged?
im hoping to be going to shakespear test and tune in march if anyone fancys it

crickey :D :D :D :D

march you say.......... Sounds like alot of fun :)

Shaun

hoping for high elevens or maybe high tens
did a 12.6 in my fd last year on stock turbos witn interior so its got to be possible
guys in aus and states running 8s and 9s with fcs

thats a good spec FC matey

i would just like to hit 14\'s , even 14.99 would be nice :D

as long as its a 100mph + :p

Shaun

the cars being built on a tight budget by me and a few mates from work
i work in the tool room and the other guys are coded welders welding stainless and ali so we should be getting it done for sod all apart from gaskets seals ecu and injectors, weve got everything else
ive got a bit of a challenge on buy a guy that works with me who runs in the wild bunch with a proper space frame dragster and 3 speed box shift break and tranny module, chevvy at 350 hp but all last season best run was 10.8 at 120mph which to me is pretty ****e for a proper dragster compared to some jap machines knocking about nowadays.
were having a race at shakespear in march for the crack anyway
1990 rotary against purpose built dragster that cost 15k to build!"
the fc stands us at 1500 quid with big front mount, fd diff and t51r turbo but with blown engine!
im getting a wideband sensor so we can have a go at mapping  ourselves :Hammer

MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm FMIC :D :D :D

to me the rotary is unreal for power yet so cheap! specialy buying from the states huge front mounts for 150 quid t45 ball bearing turbos 500 quid!
no wonder theres so many super quick fcs and fds in the states
you can pick fcs up now for under 500 quid, do a bit of welding buy huge turbo front mount fuel setup ecu, and see off mega expensive macinery :Thumbs-up

lovely, march would sound alot of fun, i\'ll hopefully get into the 12\'s with mine. Have to get back up the fastest stock twins league table !

Once you realise that the bo**ocks that people spout about the engines not being reliable and actually drive one for real there isn\'t anything else that can match a fd or fc for bangs for bucks especially the fc. Amazing what power you can get out of them really !

Shaun

well I am to far from playing as rusted out and twisted shell so will have to sit it out I will save what I can from her and maybe be ready for RS4 or 5
what shell I do to my N/A engine I have anouth time to get it right anyway

good luck all I am looking forwoud to it
ed

I\'ll have a go. Mine\'s a virtually standard vert so will be a good benchmark for you all!

Turbo II vert (about 50K on 2nd engine)
Stainless steel exhaust (still with cat though)
no other mods as far as I know

See you there

Nice one easylife - I met you at Brooklands I think.

Do you know if vert owners have to have any safety stuff in for this ?

I heard a rumour about roll cages or something - don\'t want to spoil the line of the car though.

If I\'m allowed to play I have:

89 Vert
Full racing Beat with no CAT !
HKS Induction
Blitz ECU (no fuel cut, no rev limit)
Walborough Fuel pump
Koni shocks
17" OZ superleggara\'s running 225/45 Eagle F1\'s
Engine with 16000 on since rebuild
Knackered clutch at moment - see other post  :reallymad

Might have done (I have the bits - it\'s a time thing) :   :Hammer
replacement ARC intercooler - still top mount  (does this disqualify ?)
Greddy throttle body inlet compression tube
Fuel Pump rewire

i nearly bought an ARC topmount for mine - but didnt bother .. i kick myself now as he only wanted £75 for it :(

not sure if im running or not to be honest - i bet its gonna be packed and i really cant be bothered waiting inline for 20 mins then to run

we shall see though :D

and Prof , if you keep the ARC off till afterwards you should be ok

Rule : Turbo cars must run with the Top mount intercooler in place.

Quote from: grinderRule : Turbo cars must run with the Top mount intercooler in place.

Grinder - are you saying we have to run with the orignal \'George Forman\' in place ?   :D   ...after all, the ARC is still a top mount :yes

Just got ordered me tickets for RSIII, and also asked about requirements for cars doing the 1/4.


Vert owners must wear a lid - you can rent one on site. :Viking

He also mentioned a container to catch any leaky coolant  :guinness

 
Apart from that its all on.

Thing is the last few drags off the lights have been crap - so I need to practice  :Giggle :3gears-rh

I will be keeping the stock interwarmer on for now

i cant wait :D :D :D

all fun and games and see\'ing a few FC runs ( i hope !! )

Stu

Still wandering whether to put the ARC on - or will that disquailify me from the FC challenge even though this is still a TMIC.

Actually, because I am a lazy sod, this will not get done until after RSIII. :Snoring

Perhaps better to benchmark the car before all the mods go on in any case, as I have new toys to fit later this year :D :D

From what I could calculate, you need 280 BHP at the fly (assuming 18% losses) to get to 100Mph in 1/4 mile.  That\'s an ET in the high 13\'s.  Problem is how much of your rev range has good power output  :(

If the weather dried up I could go out with the Gtech and practice...  :rolleyes:

my main prob is the mo is the new clutch - its very hard to get used to and if you try and launch the car sounds like its ripping itself in half ( my poor diff ) - i have never heard so many strange noises from it

seeing this is a speed challenge - i can baby it off the line - then go for it - rather that drag launches ( which will never happen with this clutch )

still needs some bedding in yet ... that will be fun

grabs great when you are driving - but setting off - ekkkk - i wont say how many times i have stalled it !! LOL

Stu

I know what you mean - I\'m nursing my repaired pilot bearing - car seems quick at the moment though ! :Thumbs-up

MOT this Tuesday - and I noticed one of the rules is that it must have a valid MOT certificate - should pass, but I\'m putting the old lights back in just in case  :D

Should be some good fun !   :guinness  :Party  :Viking  :3gears-rh

im just hoping the weather holds out

the plan is to arrive on monday morning - get on the strip as soon as it opens !

my car feels like its pulling soo much better and im hitting boost better aswell

just need to get the set offs sorted now !!! LOL

Stu

So whens the next chance to do the drag runs ?

Also, from a thorough scan through the rules, it doesn\'t say we can\'t run bigger injectors and appropriate fuel management with more boost and water injection.

For a TII the rules appear to be:

Must have stock Turbo / Intercooler
Must have all usual street trim
Engine must not be ported

From what Carl said in his post, a good launch should see a 100mph in a modified vert - and looking at my timing sheets it was my starts that were crap on both runs.

Roll on the next challenge...

I may be abale to run next time but I have a question?

Rules of entry

6) N/A cars may run with mild street porting and Baffels removed.
7) All cars must run with stock FC gearboxes and differentials.


can I run a tII shell N/A

and can I use my LPG P Port engine project?

I know it says mild street porting but LPG preduces less power anyway so it woud be intresting to see results?

regards ed

Oh, here we go again...

 So chaps lets here all the excuses for this \'so called big event\' that was planned almost 10 moths ago not happening then!

 Same thing year after year with all the gun talk competetions..
 

To be fair Trex, I wasn\'t on the forum 10 months ago, but I know that at least 3 or 4 of us were ready for this on Monday - just the weather did not allow. :(

It\'s a bit of fun, and as amateurs, probably more of a challenge than having an experienced driver or sorted car.  Given our poor starting techniques, most of the competition is going to be at the fast end of the track, relying on the car more than the driver !  :driving

We all know the FC has a lame 3rd gear, but that makes it all the more interesting.  I think this challenge has some life in it yet for the rest of the year.

Game on.... :cool

the only excuse i have at this moment intime is

1 - the master cylinder seals are shot and the clutch peddle sticks to the floor and creeps in 1st - not ideal for the 1/4 mile
2 - errrr lots of rain and a closed track :D

im really really gutted that i didnt get to run to be honest - i have been waiting for this day for ages and then the weather spoils it - i had gone thru the scrutineering ( sp ) got my number on the car - went to pay and forgot my license ( it was in the car ) as i went back for it - the heavens opened and as they say "rain stopped play"

im hoping to get on the 1/4 mile track before the next RS - just to see if i stand a chance ?

Stu
( still gutted that i didnt race :( :( :( )

So close...

Had the Gtec on this morning, as I was working the weekend, and the roads around here are virtually empty at 6.00am on a Sunday morning.  ;)

So found myself a nice long stretch of tarmac, dead straight and level, and sat with the car ready to go.  Reset the old Gtec and then did a test run.

Managed a 15.75 with TS of 96.5 Mph, and that was with a boggy start (tried dropping the clutch and made a pig\'s ear of it  :rolleyes: )

Accuracy is quoted as +/- 1/10 Sec and +/- 1 Mph.

So I am more and more convinced my heavy old bus will do the 1/4 ton  :)

96.5 isnt bad - best for me so far is about 93 :(