Anyone know what are the best pads for use with stadard FD discs?
I have just had a new set of Mintex put on the front last month and they dont seem to be able to withstand the heat from the discs :eek:
When pulled up the other day i got out and the brakes stunk somthing chronic, were red hot and there was smoke coming out from both front wheels :confused:
I never had this problem with the pads that were on the car when i bought it so i took a guess that this set must have had a bad compound and just wouldnt bed in :yes
But now i need a new set after only 4 weeks and to make matters worse the car was off the road for 10days as the engine had flooded :(
So what pads should i get and any ideas on price, just so you know i need a pad that can take a lot of heat as i\'m a late braker and drive a little hard here and there :3gears-rh
Cheers :D
how new are they ? new pads tend to smoke a little till they are bedded in.
Did they stop working at all ? we have had the brakes so hot on the rally car that the dust rubbers have caught fire but the brakes still have not gone \'off\' so we left them well alone :)
About 5-6weeks old and the car is driven every day to work and back also went to GT-Battle on these pads but they dont seem to want to bed in, they started soft as you would expect but instead of getting better they are just getting worse...
They do still work but when they get hot they make you wonder if your going to stop at all, wher as the pads that were on their before worked all the time regardless of heat and hard breaking...
I\'ve got black diamond pads, cost me about £95 IIRC from shy-auto for a full set front and rear. Had no probs with them, very good pad, cut down on the brake dust too, only had fast road use with them so far so cannot comment on track capabilities
ps, where did you get your avatar from? :)
:cool
Made it myself from a porsche gif, just changed the car to mine lol
lol, nice one
How do you make gif\'s? is there a special program for them or something? guessing they are just a few pics in a loop
Also love the avatar :3gears-rh nice work .
I just loaded up the original gif in ACDSee and saved it as a jpeg then loaded up each indavidual pic, placed my car over the porsche in each one and then created the new gif with Ulead Gif Animator...
Black Diamond are an ok street pad but not as good as the hawks, lots are using them and most use hp plus on the rear and ht10\'s on front. I think having used them ht10\'s are a bit harsh but very good, and would recomend hp plus rear and either blacks or blues on front, both track pads but not as harsh as the ht10\'s.
All in stock (inc black diamonds) here.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_Diamond.html
or
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Hawk_performance_pads.html
Quote from: RX7KENAnyone know what are the best pads for use with stadard FD discs?
i need a pad that can take a lot of heat as i\'m a late braker and drive a little hard here and there :3gears-rh
Cheers :D
If your getting brakes this hot use Hawk HT10 on the front and HP+ on the back as Black Diamonds will not put up with the abuse your obviously giving your brakes, we don\'t want you out there getting brake fade and hitting something out there ;)
Could the breaks be binding/rubbing or do you generally really push the breaking to the limits?
I\'d suspect a problem with the breaks if pads are running that hot away from track regularly.
I\'m running HT-10/HP+ front/rear black-diamond combi disks front standard rear disks and they\'re awesome but dusty and a bit squealy.
Even on completely standard breaks after abuse I never saw anything remotely like your experience!
I think it might be the pads as they dont seem to have bedded in at all they were soft at first and now feel like spunges under your feet when breaking.
I think i\'ll have to go for a set of the HAWK brakes front and back but i wont be replacing the disks for a while yet as there fine.
Where is the cheapest place to get them from?
Quote from: RX7KENI think it might be the pads as they dont seem to have bedded in at all they were soft at first and now feel like spunges under your feet when breaking.
I think i\'ll have to go for a set of the HAWK brakes front and back but i wont be replacing the disks for a while yet as there fine.
Where is the cheapest place to get them from?
If you have a soft pedal, does it pump up harder ?, if so your system needs bleeding if not and you want a harder pedal, fit some braided brake hoses.
I\'m confused. Soft pedal but pads are the problem?
FWIW, I have run Hawks for a while, decent performance but dusted stupid (alloys poo\'d). Have recently gone to Mintex and have to say I prefer them at the moment, second outing to Ring with them in a few weeks so will see how they are during and afterward.
R.
Rich, what mintex compound are you using? 1155?
I\'m not sure I\'d recommend Hawk pads for road use (or at all). Certainly not the combination I\'m using at present anyway.
I have Hawk black pads with new black diamond discs at the front. After only a week of road use, the discs are very badly scored. Worse than anything I\'ve ever seen after such little use.
It looks very likely that I\'ll have to bin the discs when I change pads (if they even last that long). Has anyone had similar experiences?
Hi Fro / Ken and all,
This thread is getting a little confusing all over with pads causing soft pedals and now pads scoring Discs :confused:
I cant really see that new pads can score Disc\'s unless they have broken up :confused:
Although none of us know it all, the reason l have posted this is because if l am confused by these comments after being in the Motor industry for 33 years and Racing for around 20, then folk reading this thread who know little about cars will be confused even more !!!
Here we go with a few things then.
Soft pedal is normally caused by air in the system.
A brake pedal\'s "feel" can be improved by fitting braided steel hoses, because stock rubber hoses balloon slightly when pressure is applied within them.
A Disc will normally only score really badly if the pad material disappears letting the metal backing contact the Disc.
Brake "fade" is often banded about but few people in my experience have experienced proper brake fade.
Brake fad comes about by the brake pad over heating and losing its friction capabilities, picture sliding something hard across a piece of glass to give you an idea of grip when brake fade takes place.
Now picture putting your foot on the brake and the car NOT slowing at ALL, now that\'s proper brake fade !!
Fade is also sometimes accompanied by a lot more pedal travel due to the brake fluid actually boiling in-side the callipers, hence the reason for upgrading brake fluid to a better quality "Race" fluid
Things I have found with Brake pads on FD\'s,
If you just want a better quality pad with no track days and a pad that will keep you nice rims clean then Black Diamond pads are the pads for you.
With Hawk pads (HP+) bewarned that when you fit them to the front and bed them in you will immediately feel like Michael Schumacher with the way your FD now stops, BUT you will now find three things with these pads, A, they WILL make your wheels very dirty, and B, they WILL fade under prolonged hard use even on the road without letting them cool properly, and C that they are very "grab and stop" under hard braking providing little feed back of "feel" to the driver .
Having said all that, Hawk HP+ are fine on the front for the road providing you don\'t drive hard and don\'t mind the dust.
We have found that if your doing Track days then the combination Black Diamond Disc\'s, Hawk HT 10 for the front and HP+ for the rear is a very good set up for an FD or an FC, without going to the expense of Big brake kits that often require major modifications to the brake system to make them perform properly.
You may now be wondering why l am now saying HP+ for the rear, this is because with the HP+ being a softer pad that the HT10 it means that you alter the "brake bias" to give more grip to the rear which on an FD it will stop the fronts locking quicker than the fronts and make the car more stable under braking into corners, especially if you are braking whilst in a bend.
BTW the term Brake bias is used to describe the proportioned level of grip of the braking system between the front and the bake of any vehicle.
Perhaps Rich can shed more light on Mintex on an FD but from my experience with the 1155 brake compound, (from memory I used this in one of my race cars) it is very much a "race" pad with very little cold stopping capability that squeals like mad, something a lot of customers will not put up with.
None of the above is intended to be a grumble, but it scares me that people may getting wrong info, which is worrying especially when you think this thread is about brakes!!
I have no doubt that some of the "Internet technicians" giving advise or selling stuff out there with no experience of "hands on" real life stuff out there can find variations or different descriptions of what l have described, but please bear in mind the comments that even if my comments l have made above read a little wrong, they are what l have been found through fitting these parts and the seat of my pants and not from a book or the internet !
Yeah Clive, you\'re right about the 1155s. I\'ve used them on a circuit racing alfa 33 and they were superb but they were very wooden until completely up to temperature. I\'ve used 1144 compound in the past which is probably a better comprimise for the road, though they still squeal.
Sorry for hijacking the thread with the scored discs. The only time I\'ve experienced this in the past, it was due to defective discs (on the alfa again) and I\'m wondering if this is the case again, or if the pads are stupidly abrasive.
Would you prefer if I started a new thread?
Cheers
Rob
Hi Rob
Thanks for the info, please leave the thread alone as hopfully its now become an informative " brake" thread.
Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comBlack Diamond are an ok street pad but not as good as the hawks, lots are using them and most use hp plus on the rear and ht10\'s on front. I think having used them ht10\'s are a bit harsh but very good, and would recomend hp plus rear and either blacks or blues on front, both track pads but not as harsh as the ht10\'s.
All in stock (inc black diamonds) here.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_Diamond.html
or
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Hawk_performance_pads.html
So as said by Clive and what I quoted earlier is about right. There is a Hawk compound guide here, look at Blues or Blacks as they are not as ha HT10\'s and have a better heat range for fast street.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Hawk_performance_pads.html
Perhaps move some of the posts to new thread if you start one fro.
I have Hawk black compound front pads with Black Diamond rotors (combi).
After bedding in according to the pad instructions (6 medium stops / 6 hard stops with brake ducts sealed, not coming to a rest) I have very heavy scoring of the disc. In addition to the bedding in, the picture below shows the scoring after a couple of hundred of normal road driving (no hard stops).
It\'s difficult to judge the scoring from the photo but it\'s quite nasty. If you run a fingernail down it, it will catch.
Has anyone experienced similar problems before? At the current wear rate I\'ll have to change the discs before the pads :eek
With the current scoring I will probably have to change the discs when the pads are changed.
Cheers
Rob
didnt get this problem when i had my black diamonds., get rid of the hawk pads, buy some green stuff or predator (black diamond) pads. what do the pads look like? are they badly scored as well?
Quote from: ShyAuto.comPerhaps Rich can shed more light on Mintex on an FD but from my experience with the 1155 brake compound, (from memory I used this in one of my race cars) it is very much a "race" pad with very little cold stopping capability that squeals like mad, something a lot of customers will not put up with.
TBH, I thought they were M1166\'s - I will check. I am also now using RZ/RS discs btw. May be my car is a funny, but I have had NO squeal from them that I can recall. They are dusting at a reasonable rate I think also. They were pretty good at the Ring last time altho no comparison to Phil or Max\'s biggies obviously. See how they get on next month. I think they cost a bit more than Hawks tho. I havent personally driven Hawks in my own cars for a while now and will be sticking with Mintex (or some thing bigger all round) for now unless the next set is completely different!
I don\'t know if I\'m talking non-sense here but I think thats pretty normal ... I\'ve certainly seen it plenty of times before on cars I have worked on and none had any problems with brake judder :confused: or any adverse affects
What exactly is the problem ?
I feel now this thread should become an informative thread about brakes in general and not just a "selling" one particular brand thread purely about upgrades, after all, unless people know the basic\'s how can they make informed judgements on what is best for their car and particular driving style.
We should all bear in mind that different drivers and applications need different types of brake systems and possibly different types of manufactures products and this has now become an important thread when you consider also the safety aspects involved.
I now welcome different peoples experiences of the many different brake products available particularly for the FD but also all other Rotary\'s including the RX-8 for which there are already different types of upgrades available.
Were only the pads new, or the discs too?
With pads new only, the method of bedding in is correct.
But with new discs you should brake very gently for the first 100 miles or so.
(Btw, with new discs, also put new pads on)
I\'ve got the same discs and Hawke HT-10 pads and haven\'t noticed anything like this on them. WIll go check for sure in a bit though.
Just checked - there\'s a little very light scoring but nothing that would cause any concern to me. Just enough to feel it with the nail, almost feels smooth to the fingertip.
Are Hawk Blacks a race compound?
Fish
Quote from: FishAre Hawk Blacks a race compound?
Fish
They\'re classed as a all purpose race pad. In reply to an earlier question, both discs and pads are new.
I\'ve not had to treat new discs gently in the past. I\'ve put new discs on and literally gone straight out into race qualifying with no problems :rollin
Quote from: MikeLMRI don\'t know if I\'m talking non-sense here but I think thats pretty normal ... I\'ve certainly seen it plenty of times before on cars I have worked on and none had any problems with brake judder :confused: or any adverse affects
What exactly is the problem ?
The problem is, when I come to replace the pads, the discs will have to be binned or skimmed. If this is normal with Hawk pads (and after a bit of research on rx7club it may be) then I\'m not sure I\'d buy them again.
Quote from: froThe problem is, when I come to replace the pads, the discs will have to be binned or skimmed. If this is normal with Hawk pads (and after a bit of research on rx7club it may be) then I\'m not sure I\'d buy them again.
Looking at the Disc I am inclined to aggree with Mike that this is just the result of a very aggressive Race pad that has a very harsh composite material probably with lots of metal within it.
Main thing is though seeing as your racing with this set-up is DOES IT WORK ?
If so and you have no other adverse effects that a bit of scoring, l wouldn\'t worry !
If not providing your getting no viberation from the Disc\'s and your still worried try HT10\'s, and with a bit of bedding in they will still bed into those Disc\'s OK reguardless of how they look .
Hope this helps.
Hi Clive,
I suspect you\'re right and it\'s due to the aggresive, abrasive compound. I\'m not racing with this setup, this is on a road car which will be used for occasional track days.
I\'ve not had this problem with pure race pads though :confused:
Anyway, the setup works well on the road (albeit a bit grabby) but the proof of the pudding will be the frist track day.
Has anyone tried Ferodo DS2500s on a FD? I\'ve used them on a 200sx and they are an excellent fast road/track day pad.. the downside is they\'re quite expensive (although not as expensive as replacing a pair of discs every time ;) )
Cheers
Rob
Quote from: cliveLooking at the Disc I am inclined to aggree with Mike that this is just the result of a very aggressive Race pad that has a very harsh composite material probably with lots of metal within it.
Main thing is though seeing as your racing with this set-up is DOES IT WORK ?
If so and you have no other adverse effects that a bit of scoring, l wouldn\'t worry !
If not providing your getting no viberation from the Disc\'s and your still worried try HT10\'s, and with a bit of bedding in they will still bed into those Disc\'s OK reguardless of how they look .
Hope this helps.
Quote from: froHi Clive,
Has anyone tried Ferodo DS2500s on a FD? I\'ve used them on a 200sx and they are an excellent fast road/track day pad.. the downside is they\'re quite expensive (although not as expensive as replacing a pair of discs every time ;) )
Cheers
Rob
I run DS2500 on my FD and have been very pleased, but this is with my Big Disc Brembo set up, sadly they do not make this material in FD pad shape :(
Will let you know when I have more detail, been working on a deal for a while now, meeting them tomorrow, so hopefully ready soon, but I will also have Ferrodos available.
Anyone using them already, would like to hear your comments as this thread has died.
The Ferrodo DS2500\'s are a good pad. Good bite from cold, no noise when cold, good heat characteristics. Down side is the cost. But you get what you pay for.
Fish
So we know people are using
Hawk
Ferodo
Mintex
Black Diamond
I only know of 1 using Endless
Do we have any other makes being used???
I think there are some that use those EBC pads. But I wouldnt recommend using those on a push bike, let along an FD.
Fish
Second that motion. EBC are for Corsas, Novas and Saxos hence their popularity.