Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: McCARTHY on June 29, 2005, 12:14:18 PM

Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: McCARTHY on June 29, 2005, 12:14:18 PM
Has anyone got any pics????? is it designed to work in conjuction with a front mounted intercooler ???? Oh and it would be on a singal turbo car
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Steve Burnett on June 29, 2005, 01:02:22 PM
Quick answer as I know little about them.

They are instead of an intercooler. (I hope im right in saying that)
They can be for twins and single.
There are pics, but I can\'t remember where they are.

Warthog is currently got one installed and is getting very good results with it.

Buy Jtuner magazine, there are a couple of FD\'s with charge coolers in them in this months edition (No.2)
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Kieron on June 29, 2005, 01:37:53 PM
(https://sslrelay.com/s113386882.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=1542c295b032fc8/shopdata/0005_Induction/0050_Intercoolers+=26amp=3B+other+charge+coolers/images/pwrcc_l_350x224.jpg)

RE:WORX
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Brett on June 29, 2005, 02:10:11 PM
I belive John (of yellow 7 fame) is running one, he was very pleased with it.
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Kieron on June 29, 2005, 02:12:09 PM
My post wasnt very informative, I believe RE:WORX use that chargecooler on there 9second drag car so that would have made my mind up if I was going to buy one, quality speaks for its self, tried and tested.
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: McCARTHY on June 29, 2005, 02:26:21 PM
i\'d asume it wuld come with the pipe work to mount it closer to the front of the engine bay away from all the heat???? How do they work, are they just air in the middle surrounded a skin of water???
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Brett on June 29, 2005, 02:36:26 PM
Basically you are passing the air through a water cooled tunnel, the water is then circulated around its own little rad.  Buy this months J tuner, theres loads of 7\'s with POW-R charge coolers in there, and some good engine bay pics too :)
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: McCARTHY on June 29, 2005, 02:54:54 PM
Do they have the same caracteristics as a front mount in that when your standing still the temps climb up by a noticeable amount..... Basically i want to gear my car for drifting......... if i ever get it back and am in two minds as to which would be better for that sort of job Vmount or charge cooler......
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Spotlamp on June 29, 2005, 02:55:08 PM
Really neat install if you ask me.  They sit between the engine and the rad normaly as that\'s the only place you\'ve got room.  Pretty tight with stock air box, however they do offer a much shorter piping over FMIC and subsequenly less lag.  I\'m not sure if the difference is that noticable though.  The other major advantage is a much lesser risk(?) of hear soak than air to air intercoolers.

It was going to be a mod for my stock twins but subsequently gone for a cheap single turbo/fmic option.  Considering it as a future upgrade, worth the money I reckon.

HTH
H
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: FD3UK on June 29, 2005, 05:27:11 PM
I am part way through installing a PWR Charge Cooler. See link for some pictures and info. Kit only comes with parts as shown by Kieron, so you will have some fabrication work to do.



Link.....   http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15317
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: OLSKOOLROTAR on June 29, 2005, 05:49:43 PM
I\'m running an old version of this, but its the same thing. its not pretty to look at but it does the job I\'ve got a diagram somewhere.

Jase
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on June 29, 2005, 07:54:42 PM
There are a couple of advantages using a charge cooler over an intercooler:

1] They do not require you to be moving for it to work, so they maintain lower temps   when in traffic.

2] They do not restrict air flow through your [engine] rad therefore you should see lower water temps

You do find that you will run slightly higher inlet temps as against a FMIC but, I feel it is a good trade off against better water temps the +5c is not enough to get over worried about. If you consider what a SMIC gives you [inlet temp wise] a charge cooler / FMIC will be a vast improvement, can\'t comment on the \'V\' mount as yet to see one / hear any comments on them.
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: Fish on June 29, 2005, 09:21:09 PM
Any idea of the life of the pump? This could be an issue if it failed.

Fish
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: 20B_boy on June 29, 2005, 09:45:25 PM
Pumps lifes same as the normal davies ewp - some thing like 2000 hrs i.e. a good engines-worth :D
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: DFLROWLAND on June 29, 2005, 10:21:29 PM
what does the pwr charge cooler kit cost & how would need to be added to that figure for ant fabrications needed to install?
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on June 29, 2005, 11:18:49 PM
Quote from: FishAny idea of the life of the pump? This could be an issue if it failed.

Fish

Not so much of an issue as you might think, when I 1st hooked mine up I had it on a switch from the battery and on a \'few\' trips I forgot to turn it on only noticed when checking the commander it still has some cooling properties without the pump running certainly enough for you to limp home.
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: 20B_boy on June 29, 2005, 11:23:28 PM
I was going to say the same John; I\'ve driven the drag car with it switched off, no biggy cruising about I found...
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on June 29, 2005, 11:25:01 PM
Quote from: DFLROWLANDwhat does the pwr charge cooler kit cost & how would need to be added to that figure for ant fabrications needed to install?

Have a look on REworx site they sell them in the UK or have a look at Aus sites if you fancy importing one, I dont profess to be a mechanic but with the aid of some Samco hose and couplers it was pretty much a straight forward job.
There is also Pace engineering they make and sell there own to the Cossie boys
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: McCARTHY on June 30, 2005, 09:25:53 AM
Quote from: FD3UKI am part way through installing a PWR Charge Cooler. See link for some pictures and info. Kit only comes with parts as shown by Kieron, so you will have some fabrication work to do.



With the fabrication as say will need doin..... how do you work out the diamiter of the pipes would it matter if you mounted closer to the front of the car???? would you just use the same diamiter as the holes either end of the charge cooler??? I like the sound of having one, but it would be great if anyone had a comparason between that and the v mount???
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: PETE SMITH on June 30, 2005, 11:18:40 PM
Bloody Hell!
This thread is tempting me towards this!
If so, i\'m gonna have an APEXI FMIC for sale!! :eek:
In a bizarre sort of way, changing to the charger would create some nice frontal space to sort out air induction!!
Pete..is there no end to modification??! :guinness
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: FD3UK on July 01, 2005, 09:10:18 AM
My turbo(T78) outlet and greddy elbow inlet are both 70mm, the PWR charge coolers end tanks are both 76mm. As you will see I have positioned tank to keep my run as short as possible, so have used Samco hose to link together.

Charge cooler position depends on many factors, different turbo setups and battery relocation. Also the further foward you go the lower you have to go to clear bonnet shut line.



Kev
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on July 01, 2005, 05:18:12 PM
Hi Kev

Having looked at your proposed install as per the photo I would not recommend having the outlets above the level of the tank, you are likely to get air locks in the system that way [If you think about it air is lighter than water so will find the highest point once you have created an air bubble you will not get any circulation through the charge cooler], I assume you have some form of ducting to the CC rad as it is in the SMIC position. BTW love the quality of the install. If you are going to install it that way I would recommend an AAV.
I would also recommend some insulation to the turbo [beany bag?]


REgards

John
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: FD3UK on July 01, 2005, 05:54:11 PM
Yes, I spoke to warthog about positoning and he said the same thing, my theory was that the fill point was highest and air would be released through the cap. Yes the rad will be sealed, with air being fed in from the same point as SMIC.

At the moment I just have heat wrapped manifold, turbo and downpipe (done since photo). Not sure what you ment by AAV.

I seem to take one step foward and two back with whole project. when wiring new injectors I found loom was very brittle, so I have ripped it out and have a Microtech L10s which will be here on Monday. So I will now have a nice new loom and a much less complicated set up. Just on and off thermostatic control for the fans and no aircon. Have been busy removing as much of front loom as I can. Also going to move the alternator to where aircon was and run electric power steering pump, so will only have single belt.

Opps, sorry for the long post.


Kev
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on July 01, 2005, 06:03:04 PM
Nice one :god  Good to see someone else moving the alternator :) AAV - automatic air vent - lets the air out whilst keeping the water in. When you say \'just on and off controll for the fans\' is this for the water rad fans? I wired the fan and pump for the CC on the ignition, they run all the time the ignition is on.
Are we likely to see this masterpiece in the not to distant future?
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: FD3UK on July 01, 2005, 06:15:07 PM
John,

I was rabbiting on about coolant system fans, I will lose the ECU control of them. I was going to run Charge Cooler pump with ignition, but run fan based on intake air temp.

Hoping to make progress now, have had some personal issues to deal with over the last few months.
Title: PWR chargecooler
Post by: John Yorke on July 01, 2005, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: FD3UKJohn,

I was rabbiting on about coolant system fans, I will lose the ECU control of them. I was going to run Charge Cooler pump with ignition, but run fan based on intake air temp.

Hoping to make progress now, have had some personal issues to deal with over the last few months.

As soon as you put any load on the turbo inlets temps will rise IMHO not worth the extra work, no additional load on the engine might just as well let it come on with the ignition. HTH John