:burnout Well I have a had an offer, 5mph to 150mph in a line GT2 against my new tripple rotor when it get back. The bet £1000.00 best of three runs. shall we do this???????????? :wiggle
my money is on the GT2
Will the porch still be attached to a house? If so then the FD should win ;)
If it\'s a Porsche GT2 you\'re racing then it should be fun but the GT2 would probably give you a good run. 4.1sec 0-100kmh and 480bhp would give most cars a good seeing to so I\'d make sure you triple is an easy winner in that department before taking on a bet.
Of course, if you\'re laying down 480 at the wheels you should eb able to do it :)
Quote from: DRAGONmy money is on the GT2
I don\'t think they are that fast. tripple rotor T78 with all the tricks. 550BHp at the fly, I don\'t think so! :guinness
And I think the Gt2 a heavy old lump more than 1260KG\'s anyway
T78 might be alittle too small for a 20B ???
GT42 would be better.
Lay some times down then you will see if you\'re in the money
Chatted to a couple of lads with a GT2 a while back at Mallory Park,nice car and quick but not ballistically so,a sorted 20B powered RX-7 that\'s producing the goods and driven well would walk it,it\'s a simple power thing...
James
Whatever happens you\'ve gotta get it on camera! Talk about the clash of the titans!
Sounds like good fun! get your self down to pob and practice the launch :D
Good luck!
Theratpack .com :yes They are kicking all RX motors, and most other jap marks as well log on an d give us some support. I am holding the side up on my own. :cheers
http://www.theratpac.com/phpBB2/
GT2 does 11 second quarters as standard, weight at the back etc all helps.
No one in the Uk has had a 20b that has done anything in the Uk. So the odds are against you.
as Dragon\'s comments,
James FD3, the one key word you mention is \'SORTED\', there was only one finished 20B FD in the UK at RS/1 and he couldnt get below 13 secs although i didnt realise the GT2 was that quick. I know the turbo 911 is low 12\'s but 11\'s is seriously quick as thats what the McLarren F1 does...
A would say a T78 is too small for a 20b, there are 13b\'s running T78s and the 20b is 50 percent bigger! Meaning it has 50% more gases to get out and needs 50% more air in. There are even a few 13b\'s running T88\'s but i will let you know how that one goes... :p
Who told you to put a T78 on it?
Sorry old mate, a GT2 does NOT do the strip in 11 second runs. we are talking about ( at best) low 12 second runs. I know I have raced them before with the old 13B I had and there was not a lot in it.,
My 13B has done mid 12 second runs only running a T04E. The reason I am going for the T78 is I want th thing to last more than 10,000 miles. it\'s compramise between power and lasting 70 or 80K. And believe me it will be sorted, unlike so many other bad attempts. Pip is doing the whole spec, and she will only be running around 10lb of boost but will still get far more pull than the 13B lump and will not get a 13B lump pulling over 500BHP with 10lb of boost ( no way no how) Maybe I will be the first in the UK with a good road going 20B engine that run as it should, :wiggle bloody quick!
if your running 10 psi with a big turbo or with a little turbo, it wont make it last longer, if anything, a bigger turbo is better for the engine as they run cooler air as they have to compress it less.
be intersting to see your project running, what car is it in?
Always remember my Cosmo 20B on a fresh engine just after I\'d run it in,so sweet and massive midrange grunt compared with a 13B,with careful tuning and a well matched turbo the 20B would be a real giant killer.....
Best of luck with the conversion,sure WGT will do you proud.
James
Normski go GT42 or bigger my 20b\'s running a GT42 on a mild street port and you certainly don\'t want anything smaller or you\'ll end up choking the engine at higher rev\'s. When Pip mapped mine he was saying what he was doing for you and i think he was worried about a lack of room due to the size of the GT42. I\'ve attached the dyno chart from mine running 10psi on stock intercooler and stock silencers. Intercoolers now upgraded and once the exhausts been sorted i\'ll be back for another mapping session on the dyno.
Regards Kevin :3gears-rh
sounds ace under load too ;) (completely off topic)
That was about half pedal when i passed the caravan Mike. Temps where still a bit low for full pedal.
Nice to meet you regards Kevin
1184ft/lb torque?? is that right? seems enormous!
Coincidence you have raced them before, they are rare as rocking horse sh1t. Do not confuse the GT2 with any other 911.
They are a 11 second car, thats not my opinion, its been proven.
As far as a race goes there are loads of variables, you maybe a crap driver, he maybe a great driver, or the other way round, are you running 4psi of boost or 40psi, etc, etc.
Good-luck, let us know how you get on.
Dont want to take over Normski\'s thread here but actual torque figure is 345 you divide by the ratio to get a figure, something to do with it being a hub dyno or so Pip said
Kevin
Quote from: ScuttleRX1184ft/lb torque?? is that right? seems enormous!
probably at the wheels ?
1184ft/lbs divide by diff ratio (assuming dyno pull in a 1:1 gear and 3.8 diff) =305ft/lbs
EDIT doh beaten to it :D EDIT
didnt realise that :) thought it was rather on the large side!
I met a carrera turbo the other day
creamed the bugger
:yes
I am very very impressed :yes . I think your car is the most awesome type of sleeper. I LUV it! good luck with it.
I think my problem is, Pip has already got this T78 in. ready to stick it under the bonnet. Anyway, a T78 is not exactly a small baby blower is it. I think he intends to run about 10lbs of boost in my thing, which he recons it should cope with OK. will still have the water injection system. and the big intercooler. As I broke it last time, and it\'s cost both Pip and me a load of dosh, we thought this is not going to happen again, if we can help it. I think it\'s a very good point about the blower size though. the bigger it is, the less air it\'s got to compress. Very good point!
I don\'t know, Kev may know with his cosmo, but he recons in an FD running that spect it will awsome! well over 500BHP and enough pull to rip your face off, if pushed!
what do you think....
Quote from: DRAGONCoincidence you have raced them before, they are rare as rocking horse sh1t. Do not confuse the GT2 with any other 911.
They are a 11 second car, thats not my opinion, its been proven.
As far as a race goes there are loads of variables, you maybe a crap driver, he maybe a great driver, or the other way round, are you running 4psi of boost or 40psi, etc, etc.
Good-luck, let us know how you get on.
http://www.classicrsfords.co.uk/quartermile.htm
It\'s all here Dragon, check it out. and yes I have raced a GT2. and I do know what one looks like.
I was driving cars hard when you were pushing your 3 wheeled trike up the road. my history of cars goes back to the early 1970\'s were you around then? I was a car nut then and still a car nut today.. :yes thats about 33 years, so I do know my cars quite well. Maybe not all the workings of the RX, like you. but a very good accross the board interest is where I am at.
Driving, yes I am a very good driver. But, as you all know, there is always someone a bit better out there. I always think the very term is an odd one.
When I was in the groove ( as it were) there were some motors, almost know one could have got past me. Is a good driver, someone who can drive a 40ft 70 seater coach up to a French toll gate at about 40 MPH with about 5 inches eather side of the wing mirrors, and not touch, time and time again a good driver, ( I don\'t know, you tell me) . as I say there is all sorts of drivers. At one time I used to drive around 70,000 miles per year, Uk to Spain, and back 2 times a week, every week for 7 months, 2 drivers 4 hours on 4 hours off, all through the day and all through the night. I don\'t know, am I a crap driver :o
feeling a bit touchy this morning Normski?
Drivin a performance car is not the same as a coach matey ?
But i see your point, well the truth will be seen once you race.
Sorry, I didnt realise the classic Ford web-site was the authority on Porsche GT2 stastistics. :rolleyes:
Anyway talk is cheap, I\'ll bet you £1000 on a 5mph-150mph race if you want.
nicely does it guys got to be honest dont think ross meant anything derogatory...any race is hugely dependant on the day/conditions/driver and would and could vary with one run giving good and another bad.to be honest unless u are at the extreme edge of tuning like ross/geff who are running and building very fast cars its hard to figure how fast a car is going to be as bhp doesnt allways mean a lot and porsches are pretty well engineered cars that are made to do one thing and that is go fast.i wouldnt take any bets on beating anything until the car was built and tested hard otherwise u might end up looking a bit silly with porche exhaust fumes in ur face ;)
One of my heros was Roger Clark,one of the most talented drivers ever to sit behind the wheel,he had a saying...."when the flag drops,the bull**** stops....."
Never a truer word said.
James
Errrr
Just dont offer Ross a race too !!!!!
I ain\'t racing Ross too! :confused:
Of course driving a coach is not the same as a performance car, I was saying it\'s driving skills just the same, but in a very differing way. I agree, it\'s very easy to talk the talk but can we walk the walk. We have all had those fools out there, tell us of these fantastic times. we can all do that! my car does the strip is 4.5 seconds. See, it\'s easy! but just don\'t ask me to prove it!
As far as the GT2 goes Ross, I really do think if you check out almost any site you like, and anyone else who feels the need, you will find the average is around 2.1 to about 12.7 runs. They are a avery very good car, not saying otherwise, but they only have 460BHP not 560 or 660. Check most of the time out and I think you will find an F40 ( which is quicker than the GT2) averages very high 11 second runs about 11.9 ish. Lets look at it on papaer anyway, a GT2 is more of lump than the RX7 and I should be pulling at least 50 or 60BHP+ more than that, as a result, at least 150KGs less weight and about 60 ish BHP more push. in a straight line on a rolling start to about 150, he will loose, not by to much, but he should loose!
If talk about drag strips, abig factor is grip and the start, a skill in it\'self. Nothing to do with whose car is better. Rubber also plays good part as well.
If we mention, normal track racing then, although the Mazda has great balance a cornering abilities, I don\'t think it\'s quite up to a Porker GT2, or 3 come to that. Conditions out there also come into it, as we all know the RX is quite famous in the wet, heheheh :wave :burnout, then there is the track knowledge, who know that track the best ???? Ummmmm! Luck also comes into play to, it could be just a bad day for someone. Even F1 top line drivers scew up at times! So theres lots of veriables. It\'s not quite that simple people. Thats why I said a rolling start in a straight line, good conditions, to about 150MPH it\'s the simplist type of driving, and as you may all recall, it is not about who is the best driver, it\'s about who has the power sheer grunt from 5 or 10mph to 150MPH. then it\'s all about the car, nothing else. Agility the GT2 would cill the RX I recon, but thats not what its all about! :wave
http://www.pr.streetracing.org/whats_new.html
also see this one then! :bandit
Quote from: normskihttp://www.pr.streetracing.org/whats_new.html
also see this one then! :bandit
I cant even see the GT2 on the list :confused:
http://www.ssmoparmuscle.com/speedcomp.htm
It\'s on this one.
Turbo s is about as near as you can get, nothing in it!
Come on boys I\'ll settle the argument, It\'s time for the best test available for those on a budget: GranTurismo4 :D . I\'ll let you know the outcome :3gears-rh
Now why did we not think of that one! silly me! :3gears-lh :3gears-rh :3gears-lh :wiggle :god :god
Quote from: normskiI am very very impressed :yes . I think your car is the most awesome type of sleeper. I LUV it! good luck with it.
I think my problem is, Pip has already got this T78 in. ready to stick it under the bonnet. Anyway, a T78 is not exactly a small baby blower is it. I think he intends to run about 10lbs of boost in my thing, which he recons it should cope with OK. will still have the water injection system. and the big intercooler. As I broke it last time, and it\'s cost both Pip and me a load of dosh, we thought this is not going to happen again, if we can help it. I think it\'s a very good point about the blower size though. the bigger it is, the less air it\'s got to compress. Very good point!
I don\'t know, Kev may know with his cosmo, but he recons in an FD running that spect it will awsome! well over 500BHP and enough pull to rip your face off, if pushed!
what do you think....
Pips right about the performance make sure you\'ve a clear 1/2 mile or so in front of you if you\'re going to open it up as corners and traffic come up real fast. Even at 150mph in the heavier Cosmo theres no let up in the acceleration so it should be a intresting race if you can keep the backend under control. I dont know what size rear tyres you\'re going to use 265\'s on the back of mine and its still pretty easy to get the backend out. The noise you get out of the tail pipes is something special as well once you open it up.
Kevin
okies checked out various magazines and stuff, they mostly quote from 11.8 to 12.2 for the quarter mile. So it will be close, but the 20B should win if the car has been set up right and you launch it well.
But I feel if you gonna race through twisties then the GT2 will walk it easy, you gotta remember the FD Chassis was designed with the 13b and 300 BHP in mind, where as the GT2 Chassis was designed with over 400 bhp from the start, the Grunt/Torque from the turbod flat 6 exiting a corner with the Porsche Chassis will cream you. So just agree on a drag race lol
:yes I agree! Corners, I will get creamed big time. I often feel these 360\'s 355\'s Gt3 and GT4 are often over stated. Of course they are very quick, compaired to your average ST220 ford or MGF, and alike. But I still say, in a straight balls out race in a line, a good 600BHP Supra Skyline, RX7, and some others will trounce them. Yes I know they have been worked on and the others are out of the box, but, when you consider they are 100K upwards. and all we have to do. is spend 10K on the car and another 15K on the MOD\'s 25 or so later, and we have agiant Killer. And extra 3 or 4K on the looks
What have we got a Jap exclusive, which is individual, and short of an Enzo or similar there ain\'t nothing gonna get past your ass! Sorry all those red car fans 355\'s and alike, but you are paying 50K for the badge and 30K for the car type thing. Keep the badge, I will take a good Jap motor anyday.
I think thats why sites like tis one exist, Cos we think they are the best! And you can\'t tune a Porch or the (big F) like you can a nice Jap motor! thats a fact.
Ans Kev! Yes I just cannot wait to get my new car back the 20B in it. Pip recons the sound is just out there. A six pot 2 stroke. never listened to one of them. he recons ( sound wise) it\'s not too far off the formula 1 screem, would you agree ???
I\'ve always said rotaries \'howl\' and they do.
I love the noise out of my car, especially in a tunnel.
Quote from: normskiI think thats why sites like tis one exist, Cos we think they are the best! And you can\'t tune a Porch or the (big F) like you can a nice Jap motor! thats a fact.[/QUOTETheres a lot of tuning out there for Porsches. And look at the times from GT Battle at the weekend. The GT3 RS\'s out of the box standard cars were only really beaten by Lloyds Cossie and I bet thats had rather more than 75k spent on it to develop it to the spec. Same with Sumos R34 which only just piped them. But then the Porsches still have warrenty. And re-sale value.
Id definatly have one if I had the money to do so.
The cossie looked bleedin quick too !!!! saw it go round lapping the Lotus Exige
Interesting video of Gemballa porsche vs RSG R34 (I know its not a rex, but when it comes to jap vs world we\'re all in the same boat)
http://www.toprpm.com/videos/RSG-GTR34_vs_PorscheGambala.rm
Who\'s the DADDY NOW :D
yea your right there loads of addons for the Porkers, I don\'t know if there is as many as for the Jap scene, but ha, there we go! The truth is, I like the Porkers to, some very nice machines out there, but there are loads and loads about. Stand on ya average street corner, and see a porker go past, and the reaction generaly is, so what! see a nice X7 float by and my experience says it gets more attention. 99% of 911\'s all look the bloody same, alth there are about 14 million models out there. The Boxster, 924, 944, 928, ( ha well, forget them sorry things ( short back and sides come to mind) that ain\'t happening man! GT3 GT3rs GT2, GT1 Turbo and the Turbo\'S great cars, the rest are pants! , :yes . No doubt, we could ponder such finaries all day long. If I was mega rich I would have a nice Turbo \'S in my little stable along with, a bunch of many others to. I would still have the old RX7 Cos I like them, It\'s classic in it\'s own time. One of the best proper sports cars to have ever come out of the land of the rising sun. Supra\'s also a sweet car, GTO. Skylines they all the Big boy of the Jap performance. Others are very good to. but. Pulsars, and alike, not my bag baby!
My little baby, will have cost me about 40K when it\'s complete. and will give an F40 costing 150K a bloody good run, it won\'t make me look silly at all. And I have got music, electric windows, and door handles in my car! Ha, and the panels fit better to!
Anyway! You will please to know in about 3 hours I am off to Thailand for the next 16 days. So I don\'t care anyway....... :yes :wiggle :wave :wave
Taken from the RatPack site:
20B you sound like one angry cat man! a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it and if you can afford it then we don\'t worry about depreciation. you spent 20k on a jap crate! what is it worth now? 30k my arse!!
fact is if you buy a 550 now then you have cracking car at £70-80k that will pull all the way up to 200 mph and was built for the job. an engien and noise to die for and one of the best handling cars ever...
I think the air fix on your car would give up after a few mins at 160 let alone 200!
as phil said get you car to the track where it counts and the radical will wave goodbye. I think phil\'s X50 will have no issues as well.
the car maybe quick but what about the driver?
plus the ****** engined car will be rubbish from zero...and you know it.
all subjective and I think they are naff cars with a wank image and a ****** of an engine! you spent 20k on it! unlucky!
I am sure if you pulled up next to a crwod of ladies and opened the doors then the 911 or rari would win every day and you would be beating them off with a ****ty stick! your car they would run a mile...maybe the local pink police might take you up?
your chose and your car. was we have made our choices. why issue all these challenges as I am sure we are all up for it on thr track.
I bet you have never ever been on track and just polish the turd all day!!
truth hurts!
\'I am always getting people ask what my car is, what make, Not so with the others\'...more like \'what the **** is it it\'s awful!!\'
I saw plenty of RX7s around le mans, the camp sites and going home. All I thought was cheap, nasty and when is the next rebuild due.
ARE YOU ALL GOING TO STAND BY AND LET CRAP GO ON????????? :flamed
Don\'t really know what is going on with this thread.
But we are the //www.mazdarotaryclub.com :)
Check out these guys at toprpm.com
These guys can by porkers,lambos etc with change down the back of thier sofas. Just to thrash them with JAP POWER. :yes
http://www.toprpm.com/videos/Diablo_vs_Skyline.rm
O/K Norm and all you other Guys lets not start a war with another site , after all everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if we don\'t agree with them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course your right there, Not nice people are they! :wiggle
As you may well see, the extract was from their site about the RX, not the other way round. It\'s not me or us doing all this. They are the ones launching the bricks! :yes
Let all ltalk about Prams! I expect we upset them toooo :D
Quote from: J4P RXTheres a lot of tuning out there for Porsches. And look at the times from GT Battle at the weekend. The GT3 RS\'s out of the box standard cars were only really beaten by Lloyds Cossie and I bet thats had rather more than 75k spent on it to develop it to the spec. Same with Sumos R34 which only just piped them. But then the Porsches still have warrenty. And re-sale value.
Id definatly have one if I had the money to do so.
I agree, the GT3 RS is the daddy, I want one so bad it hurts :god ;) Although what happened to the one towards the end after he spun? I saw him looking quite worried and then he didn\'t start the engine he just pushed it into the paddock area:(
Paul:)
I saw the RatPac boys at McDonalds in LeMan and there was some serious machinery there! Orange Murcielago, GT3s, a 360 with awesome exhaust (tubey?). They are all minted so can afford to run pretty much what they want.
A friend of a friend is a member and he says they are a bunch of nutters.
regards
Gareth
sound like a bunch of limp dicks with small todgers anyone that wants a car because they think girls will swoon and drop their nickers is sad.we buy cars because we like them not because of what others might say(i hope so anyway)i have been stopped several times and asked what my car is at lights petrol station etc(i have it debadged for a clean look bomex kit resprayed 350z blue