well here\'s a funny tale.
Just bought my first rex last Friday and have been loving every minute of it. A little less refined than I foolishly expected it to be but what it lacks in refinement in makes up for in fire spitting, popping raw evil. :D
Anyhow back to my point. Yesterday, while reversing it into my garage, I got a add coolant warning, as soon as I switched it on and it didn\'t go off. HMmmmmm I thought, switched it off and went for a bite to eat. Came back an hour later, same problem. Got a little worried now, checked the coolant level, seemed ok. Added some more, burped it, added some more burped it.... and so on. Managed to get about 2/12 litres down it.
Thought it must be ok, switched it back on. BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
still wouldn;t stop. So I am really getting worried now, some kind of major problem with the beast within a week of buying it. Pop the bonnet back up, just for interests sake, notice there\'s an unconnected orange wire, by the main filler point in the centre of the engine bay. Hmmmmmmm, sure I didn;t notice that when I first inspected it. looked around, oh look, theres an unconnected orange female too. Bang them back together, fire her up and as if by magic. SILENCE.
anyhow what is that wire? thermostat or something? I\'m guessing it must be.
hmm.....
this has suddenly become less amusing.
Just took it out for a spin, within 1 minute the alert came on again and then stopped.
Parked it up and went to the shop. Came back 15 mins later and there was a stream running from underneath my car.
Checked underneath and could just see it dripping from underneath the shields, couldn\'t see where. Radiator split? pipie split?
anyone got any advice?
AST??
QuoteOriginally posted by Big Stu
AST??
where exactly?
don\'t know my way around the rex that well yet
Check your Air Seperator tank just behind the radiator. I know these have tendency to split and leak coolant.
Stu
Ok, just checked the dipstick. Seems to still be a good level in there, although residue of somekind on the stick.
Took the main cap off, in the centre of the bay and quite a lot of steam coming out. Smelled the steam and it wasn;t at all exhaust like, just smelled of coolant.
Help,
Keep an eye on it - make sure it\'s topped up before using it.
If you can rule out split hoses or the AST (front passenger side of engine bay) it would be worth having it looked at by a specialist. The symptoms do sound suspiciously like the coolant system is being pressurised due to water seal failure...
You should fill the coolant system from the centre cap - not the plastic tank behind the driver\'s side headlight or the ast.
The level in the filler neck should be rock solid - I check mine regularly and it\'s not moved in the last 10k miles (i.e. since rebuild due to water seal failure!).
Iain
well I just bought it, had a rebuild in 2002 so I\'m hoping it\'s not a water seal failure. AST isn\'t leaking, just checked and rad seems dry. It looks like the water is coming out of the overflow behind the headlight. Stuck a little more in and it went quiet again.
getting a bit vexed now.
ok slight update.
when I fill with coolant from the engine cap, it starts leaking from the overflow, even with the engine stone cold and off.
Proper confused now.
can anyone tell me an easy way to find out is it is a water seal failure?
Hiya,
When you fill it with water are you only filling the one one the engine?.
If you are filling all three fillers you see this will make the car dump water from the tank overflow on the O/S wing and the buzzer come on.
Only fill the system via the one on the engine, this is because the car will find its own system level because as the car gets hot it pushes water into the AST then the wing tank due to expansion, then upon cooling it sucks it back again.
If you have too much water in the system they allways dump more than just the bit you put in.
Over a few runs and the car being allowed to cool fully the system should settle.
If you have water seals starting to go you offen get lots of gurgaling that you can hear from inside the car when you turn the car off after a run.
Hope this helps.
cheers clive, appreciate the feedback. Vexing me quite a bit this, being as it\'s my first rex and I only just bought the bugger.
Yeah I\'m only filling from the main engine cap, although when the light first came on I did foolishly start to fill from the overflow before I used my brain. The AST is about half full when I looked at it. Not heard any gurgling when I switch off. I can hear a bit of crackling coming from the (I assume) heat shields, which I\'m guessing is because they have got red liquid on them as they cool down.
It seems to be running fine otherwise, idle starts at about 2k, quickly drops to 1500 and settles to 800 after warming up. Slightly shaky on exactly where it wants to settle but nothing excessive.
The engine diesn\'t seem to be overheating but I\'ve been very nervous about opening it up since this problem started.
You reckon I should take it out for a few runs and see if the warning just settles?
Quotecan anyone tell me an easy way to find out is it is a water seal failure?
Hope this helps..
You can always take it to a specialist. They\'ll be able to check the CO2 level in the coolant.
cheers J.J
was hoping to do a test myself reallym however will take it to a specialist if needed
also should mention
dipstick is stained a little brown.
Any black bubbles on the dip stick??
nah, just a bit of a brown stain.
Are you having troubles starting the car?? That\'s usually the first sign of water seal failure. (someone correct me if Im wrong)
nope, starts on the button every time. Drives perfect, doesn\'t over heat, plenty power through the rev ranges, just seems to like dumping coolant all over the floor.
Im out...
Sorry mate, that\'s about everything I know :D
I only learnt about this recently. I had a water seal failure on my last one. Costed me a fortune.
From the sound of it, I\'d have guessed that your seals are still ok.
Best having a visit to one of the specialist.
WARNING !!!
DO NOT called a RAC guy out .
When my car was chucking out all those coolant, I stupidly called out RAC. This was what he did.
me : Have you worked on any 7s before??
RAC : Laughing at me. A Mazda is a Mazda, a car is a car. They still use coolant, oil, patrol.......
me : Ok, fair enough.
10 minutes later.........................
RAC : Maybe there\'s some air bubbles in the coolant system.
me : Is it? Could you do something about that?
RAC : Mmmmmmmmmmm
The RAC guys then started putting lots and lots(not talking pints or litres here) of water into all three of places. Overflow tank, the one on the engine, and the one near AST tank.
me : Does it actually need that much water?? A bit too much, no??
RAC : Don\'t worry, it\'s ok.
Started the car, reving 2k, waited for about 3/5 min for the fans to kick in. Coolant was chucked out from overflow tank again(not surprisingly).
Repeated the above for the next 30, 40 minutes with the same result every single time.
All in all, he was there for one hour and a bit.
After he finally gave up.
RAC : I wouldn\'t recommend you to drive it in this state, it\'s not safe.
me : Smiling... :) In my head. It took you this long to come up with that?? mmmmmmm
A bit of brown staining on the dipstick doesn\'t mean combustion gases or oil are getting into the engine. It\'s more likely to be from the water used to fill up the coolant, or from additive in the coolant OR from something like a coolant system sealant like Radweld (hopefully not the last one though). Just look in a kettle in different areas of the country and in some you will see brown staining, in others you will see a ton of chalk!
Thanks for your help with this one JJ, a sniffer test is a real good idea NOW.
It may be worth knowing that if you have RAC home start and tell them that it is a Rotary with engine problems they will transport the car to a Rotary specialist free of charge.
I have used them twice now to transport the car like a 100 miles a time, which has more than paid for the membership. ( just litteraly rung up and booked a lowloader to collect the car)
Also worth noteing that as a full MRC we have discount structures in place for you with both the RAC and the AA
p.s. All these cars have staining on the dipsticks in the tanks, so don\'t worry about that
OK well,
thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated.
I guess I\'ll be giving WGT a call. First call will be to the dealer though.
oh and btw Clive,
will AA do the same?
ok folks, last one on this.
took it out for a spin today, lifted the bonnest when I got out, definite gurgling noises coming from the main filler on the engine top.
:(
it\'s not good is it.
Gonna have to go to see someone and quick sharp I think.
Oedipus Rex - I don\'t think your alone mate.
Been out in mine today. Coolant buzzer and light come on. Fearing the worst I stop and let it cool down for 30 mins. Check for leaks, check levels and all seems fine. Drive home (luckily only 10miles). Let it cool down for 2 hours, check levels all seems fine. Top in and burp system (only 0.5L). Buzzer still going.
Car had a full rebuild at Pips about 5K ago so I\'m really hoping its not water seal failure.
I can see the engine temp sensor and connector on the main filler neck. Is it worth taking apart and cleaning contacts ? Also are there any other sensors and contacts that possibly may be causing this ?
Rich
QuoteOriginally posted by Oedipus Rex
oh and btw Clive,
will AA do the same?
Sorry you will have to ring the AA to find out as l can only comment on the RAC.
Sorry to hear about your engine,
may not be my engine yet,
we\'ll just have to wait and see.
Rice Cheung
The sender you were referring to on the front of the filler neck is the coolant level sender. As you can see this is very near to the top of system, if you had to add .5ltr that would have been low enough to make it go off.
The filler neck above this is the corect place to top up system, but it is also good to check there is some coolant in the expansion bottle on drivers side wing. Dont over fill this as it will only dump excess on the floor the next time engine is brought up to operating temp.
Kev
Just looked at you post and you say buzzer is still going after topping up. You can try disconnecting the sender I mentioned above at it\'s electrical connector (take care these can get a bit brittle) use a short piece of wire to link connector to metal part on the engine. turn on the ignition and check to see buzzer does not come on, this will tell you if the sender has gone bad.
Kev
Cheers chap, I\'ll try that this week and post how it goes on.
Nicked the g/f\'s 1.0L Fiesta for work. Its amazing how far £10 of fuel gets you in that :D
hmm...
more info. If anyoen can tell anything from this.
If I fill the system with coolant, it just starts leaking out onto the floor (it would appear), I did spill a bit but I\'m sure it dripped more than I spilled. This is with the engine switched off. It seems that it is impossible for me to fill the thing, however much I put it it will take more, like if I just leave it for a few hours and come back it will have dropped right down . I have felt around as far as I can without starting to unclip and remove things and I can\'t feel a leak. Also jacked it up but couldn\'t see f all through the shields but I\'m guessing there is a cracked / split / loose pipe somewhere in a position that means it loses some water but not loads and loads. This could also explain the bubbling from the system, as air would also be getting in.
Thoughts anyone?
Another point of interest. A small amount of oil on floor around about under the drivers seat area, after sitting for a couple of days. No idea if there could be a link between the 2
Could be a split in the expansion tank. Not uncommon and can exhibit the overflowing behaviour when you top the system up.
Worth checking at least.
QuoteOriginally posted by iaint
Could be a split in the expansion tank. Not uncommon and can exhibit the overflowing behaviour when you top the system up.
Worth checking at least.
don\'t think so because it\'s not dripping from behing the O/S headlight, it\'s more central than that. It did originally come from there, I think that was just me overfilling the system after the first time I got the alert though.
Now we have a bit more info this is looking like one of two things possably( provideing its water dripping from under the engine ),
1 / check the turbo water pipes or 2/ its a water seal dripping outwards and not inwards into the rotor housing
Sadly either way unless you know a lot about cars the time has come to get a rotary company involved.
You said that you had only just got the car so can you go back and talk to the Guy about some help with your not well car??
QuoteOriginally posted by clive
Now we have a bit more info this is looking like one of two things possably( provideing its water dripping from under the engine ),
1 / check the turbo water pipes or 2/ its a water seal dripping outwards and not inwards into the rotor housing
Sadly either way unless you know a lot about cars the time has come to get a rotary company involved.
You said that you had only just got the car so can you go back and talk to the Guy about some help with your not well car??
agreed, I\'m gonna get it booked as soon as possible. It\'s not done a single mile since I\'ve become aware of the problem.
As for talking to the guy, it was sold by a dealer, with no warranty intended or given. It definitely didn;t have the problem when it arrived with me but I\'m pretty sure I\'m still entitled to some protection within the law, as I lodged my dissatisfaction within the first week. I\'d take it back for them to have a look at, unforunately they are 280 miles away from me so it makes life a little tricky.
By the way Cive, I really appreciate the feedback you\'ve given me. This site has been invaluable to me in a very short period of time.
QuoteOriginally posted by Oedipus Rex
This site has been invaluable to me in a very short period of time.
MRC was formed to try and help people and to enjoy these great cars ;)
Just thought I\'d jump in and offer my 2 cents. The fact that she seems to be losing coolant when she\'s cold defo suggests that there\'s a ruptured pipe somewhere in the system. Like Clive says, the turbo coolant pipes are a prime candidate purely because they get such a hammering from all that heat down there. Obviously when the engine heats up the coolant is just gonna p*ss out! If your coolant seals had failed to the point that they made a visible difference to the water level, when you started her up you\'d be able to see a steady stream of bubbles flowing to the surface in the filler neck (this is known as the \'champagne test\'). Also take a look at the condition of the pressure cap on the AST. If the seal is compromised then as soon as she heats up she\'ll just push all of her coolant into the overflow tank and then won\'t draw any back. Any doubt just change it, they\'re only about £4 from any good motor factor. The bubbling/gurgling sound you mentioned seems to be normal, I think you\'ll find that most rex\'s do it. I\'ve put a higher pressure AST cap on mine in an attempt to prevent this but I haven\'t driven her since to see if it\'s worked. Anyway, don\'t despair yet, the rex\'s reputation for reliability seems to make people throw money at them before they go through the basics themselves. Hopefully it\'ll be something really simple. Best of Luck! :wave
QuoteOriginally posted by MillSpeed
Just thought I\'d jump in and offer my 2 cents. The fact that she seems to be losing coolant when she\'s cold defo suggests that there\'s a ruptured pipe somewhere in the system. Like Clive says, the turbo coolant pipes are a prime candidate purely because they get such a hammering from all that heat down there. Obviously when the engine heats up the coolant is just gonna p*ss out! If your coolant seals had failed to the point that they made a visible difference to the water level, when you started her up you\'d be able to see a steady stream of bubbles flowing to the surface in the filler neck (this is known as the \'champagne test\'). Also take a look at the condition of the pressure cap on the AST. If the seal is compromised then as soon as she heats up she\'ll just push all of her coolant into the overflow tank and then won\'t draw any back. Any doubt just change it, they\'re only about £4 from any good motor factor. The bubbling/gurgling sound you mentioned seems to be normal, I think you\'ll find that most rex\'s do it. I\'ve put a higher pressure AST cap on mine in an attempt to prevent this but I haven\'t driven her since to see if it\'s worked. Anyway, don\'t despair yet, the rex\'s reputation for reliability seems to make people throw money at them before they go through the basics themselves. Hopefully it\'ll be something really simple. Best of Luck! :wave
:D
Cheers mate, really appreciate that reply.
Feeling a little better at the moment after a few more tests. I\'ve realised that liquid is coming out of the front centre somewhere, and definitely not out of the overflow. Neither does it get forced out of the main filler neck if I take the cap off shortly after starting her up. the the reason it appeared to be dripping from further back was because I had it jacked up. So I\'m hoping it\'s just a split rad / loose rad pipe or similar. It drips even with the engine off but as soon as I switch it on it just ****es out. I\'m guessing (hoping) that as soon as the system is pressurised, it is forcing more out through the pipe / crack. Would seem to make sense to me.
anyhow got it booked in with Pip now so I\'ll soon find out one way or another.
Hi,
If you really cant find any splits, crack, faulty cap etc, etc...
Try flushing the cooling system completely.
This site is good.
http://www.rx7.org/Robinette/reliabiltiy.htm
Split Rad
:D
I knew it would be something simple! I bet you\'re relieved. Well there\'s your excuse to go out and buy a shiny new up-rated alloy rad.
QuoteOriginally posted by MillSpeed
I knew it would be something simple! I bet you\'re relieved. Well there\'s your excuse to go out and buy a shiny new up-rated alloy rad.
Yeah!!!!!!!!
got her back yesterday with a new rad and a major service. Driving beautifully. Had a play with an m3 SMG on the way back. Honours were even.
god I love this car.