When I first got my RX7 a few weeks ago, I had a Power FC in it and a straight thro cat back. Each time I got in it, it\'d start 1st time without a problem. I\'ve since removed the Power FC and zorst (for insurance purposes ) and sold it and replaced with standard jobbies.
Since then, I\'ve had trouble starting her. When turning the key, it sounds like its turning OK but fails to catch. Its easy enough to get her to bump start and once done, pulls all the way thro the gears without a hitch to well over 100 (on a private road of course).
She idles fine and sounds as sweet as a nut. Since removing the bits, I\'ve only driven her locally as I don\'t want to get stranded anywhere if I switch her off meaning journeys tend to last about 10-15 mins at best (don\'t get me wrong, I don\'t drive down the street to the shops or anything!) which I guess may be coking some of the plugs up a bit. I\'d love to take her to the red line for a bit to de-coke maybe but the weather @ the mo won\'t allow it :(
I\'ve read that the PFC fuels richly and in my estimation this could have fouled the plugs somewhat for when running on a standard ECU and thus caused the problem I have now.
Would it be a fair idea to get the plugs swapped for fresh ones? If so, I take it I should get 7\'s for the leading and 9\'s for the trailing plugs right? Also, what is the size of the socket on spark plug remover gadget that I need to get? Can I remove the sparks without touching the intake that goes over them?
Any ideas other to the problem? I\'m certain that its not compression as its only on 33,000 miles (55100 km) and was starting 1st time every time with the PFC and its literally been on the 2nd start of her (1st started without a hitch) she\'s struggled on the standard ECU. The first time this happened I kept trying turn her over for about 5 mins odd, and the battery began to sound tired and chugged a bit :(
So, the only other thing I can think of is battery as my battery window on the battery says she needs a recharge altho it sounds to be turning over OK but not catching so I\'m not sure its this... mind you, after about 15-20 seconds the battery sounds tired and the local journeys may not be charging her enough to counter the starting.
At a local garage today, I took her in got my cat back swapped for a nice quiet standard job and had to jump her to start on the slope leading away from the garage.
Plan of action is this: -
1 - Get a charger that\'ll cope with the Rex\'s big nasty battery :D
2 - If no joy, get a new set of plugs
3 - If no joy, scratch head and try to work out what is up :(
Hi Matt,
Sounds like before you do any thing else you need a new battery, these cars do like a LOT of battery.
Becareful of the rectifier in the alternator if the battery is getting low. They are mainly semi conductors of solid state electonic. although it is rated at 100 amps you can easiley blow it.
Somebody once told me it takes about 8 miles of driving to recover the power lost during starting the car. i would say more so on a rex which usually takes a second or two to fire. I would get the battery fully up to speed and do something about the stock return paths form the engine parts to the chasis.
scott:)
Right, gonna be charging her with the new charger for the next day or so to get her fully back up to speed. If she loses charge again, i\'ll replace it :)
EDIT
Cheers :D
If I need to go down the new battery route, which battery should I go for? What type/ampage is required?
OK, i\'m charging her now. Should it be slowly charged or would it be ok to do a fast charge on her?
Slow is a slow and steady 2 amp (very slow I know :() or fast charge is 8 amps (much faster :D, but still quite slow :() but is a fast charge OK for a drained battery?
I\'ve recently needed a new battery as I had my car laid up for a while with the result that the battery would hold any charge at all. I jump started it from my 1.0 VW polo and it started first time, as it does every time.
Personally I would take it to a specialist to give it a good going over but then I\'m just lazy :p
It sounds as though it\'s running rich or the plugs could do with changing. The plugs should be easy to check though!
Out of interest, does the replacement ECU match the year of the car or wouldn\'t this matter?
What was the insurance problem with a power FC and decat?
The ECU in question drove my car from norwich to santa pod in 90mins sat in traffic and drove home with no worries at all. 275 mile round trip using only 60 litres of optimax.
1993 fd3s standard engine build. only a few toys added for fun.
I would do a slow charge to avoid warping the plates in the battery mate.
scott
Insurancewise I have it down as a standard import hence the removal of the extra goodies. I have no need for it to be modded and would rather have a quiet exhaust as i\'ve learnt that altho the extra power is nice, I just don\'t get on with the noise! :p
I\'m doing a nice slow charge right at the mo so to have the best charge possible. Its only used at the weekend so a day or two (or maybe even 3) @ 2 amps prolly is best and from what i\'ve read elsewhere give the battery the best life (its a Bosch jobbie that looks quite recent).
To remove the plugs, how do I do it? I\'ve changed plugs before but it just looks like a complete pain in the arse to get at them! Any hints or tips?
EDIT
Its a \'92 car with a \'93 ECU. My understanding is the 92 - 95 had the same 8 bit ECU and 96 - 99 had the same 16 bit ECU and then 99 to 02 had the same ECU...
You are correct in what you say matt
I think the 16 bit ecu has more pins on one of the plugs. so you cant interchange em :)
scott
Cheers for the confirmation :D
Just a couple quick questions: -
Would the plug stay \'wet\' after it been jump started and driven for 2 x 20 mins? Could it be that they plugs are still to wet to restart her after turning off the engine?
I\'m gonna complete this full recharge @ 2 amps (would 36 hour recharge be ok or not long enough?) and if not sorted and still not sorted, i\'m gonna try getting some replacement 7\'s put in. From what I recall, it had some new ones put in about 5 months ago and about 3000 km with the PFC.
What size spark plug socket does the spark plug take and how do I get at them as they look a royal pain in the arse to do!
Cheers :wave
i cant remember what size you need mate.
i have 9\'s all the way round. always have done.
You can access the plugs from underneath the car on the passenger side. they aint to bad to do. when you get them out see if they are carbon\'d up.
Had a thought about this. you could try re-earthing the engine and its ancillary components. you may have a bad earth. also the pfc will let you take things away from the engine. You may have something missing. try reading fault code if there is one.
scott.
ps did you sort your electrical fault. it may contribute
How can I re-earth the components? Not very electrically minded :(
Haven\'t sorted the electrical problem and have actually ponded whether its a grounding problem with those lights. Would makes sense.
As for removed bits, what could have been removed? As far as I can see, everything seems to be there that should be. Knowing my luck, the PFC was set up in a special way with bits removed and i\'ll have no way of knowing which bits were taken out :(
Mind you, I had a problem with the dash lights before removing the PFC...
I uprated my earths. with a kit. take a few earth cables from various places to the chasis or back to the battery. 16mm H01 cable is what u need or a 16 mm multi strand cable. not 16mm multi core which is what your house is earthed with. multi strand is finer. i put one to the slam panel. to the back of the engine. to the right side ( i think its a ignitor. near the abs). Cant remember where the rest are the car aint at my house. i may take the dog for a wlak and take you some pics. it made a big differance to my car it started better and went better. less restrictive. people over look electrical load.
scott
ps make sure its a semi pvc cable. never use rubber sheathed cable in a engine bay.
Where did you get the grounding kit from? If I make my own, where can I get the crimper ring end to go on the end of the wire?
It was given to me. nobody took it seriously at the time but i did.
Look for a auto electrical place. the crimp lugs are easy to get hold of.
HKS do a kit called a circle earth kit. loadsa money. was thinkin of making some. dont know how much interest there is tho.
try this short term.could make em for bout 25 30 quid
get 16mm ho1 vvf of 16mm cable as spoke about. bare it back about 2 inch. split it equal in half .Put this round the bolt or stud with a washer either side and twist the end to create a loop round the stud or bolt. just tighten. this will do tempory. not saying this is the answer to all ills but might help.
scott
At Maplins its £2.99/metre for silicon coated 16mm multi strand cable plus 49p per pack of 10 53mm O ring crimps for the cable ends.... How can HKS justify £150? Can\'t see me needing any more than about 5-6 metres of the stuff - block to chassis, battery to chassis, turbo\'s to chassis - what else?
sounds like you are having fun matey
can you post links for the maplins stuff please
thanks
stu
All sorted now - She just needed a good charge :D
Plugged the battery back, turned the key and woompa woompa woompa the car came back to life :)
Just need to sort the dash now :wave
EDIT
Oh, ring connectors are either ML92A and I can\'t remember the code for the cable. When I collect mine on Thursday(ish) i\'ll get it...
Glad to hear it mate......
scott:cool
I\'m glad its sorted too :)
The dash circuit popped a 25 amp fuse when I put it in :(
Where does the dash circuit ground to?
Just had a thought about my starting and dash lights problem (although obviously, with enough battery the car is starting). My car used to have a remote start unit in it. It was removed by the previous owner on the day I collected it. I\'d seen it obviously working with the unit in so I know it works with it in and started without question
Since then I have thought nothing about it. However, this occurred to me today -
As its a remote starting unit, it would be connected to the live circuit, the engine and the starter motor to enable it to turn the starter motor and start the car. When this was removed, the harness was left in, just the unit taken out. I\'ve since removed the harness from the ignition block. HOWEVER, the loom for the unit still has connections going into the engine bay and thus presumably still connected to the live circuit.
Therefore, it makes perfect sense that if I reconnect the remote start unit back into the circuit, the battery drain will stop and that the dash light fuse blowing will stop as a short won\'t be occurring in the circuit.
Does this make sense and therefore possibly? I\'m not near my car at the mo\' so can\'t test my theory, but it sounds plausible, right?
It does mate. Its important to understand why it is blowing tho.
If it is blowing a fuse then it would indicate either a over load situation. or a short circuit. ( Short circuit is when the live conductor is in direct contact with the neutral, since neutral is earth it applies to it as well). Now the fuse is put in circuit at its origin (The source) The fuse is designed to protect the cables on that circuit against currents that exceed the cables designed full load working current. Not to protect 3rd party device or any equipment. An overload will put mechanical and thermal stress on the cable.
With this in mind i would start at the source of the circuit ie at the fuse which protects it and work forward. You could do this by finding the first and last point of electrical distribution. ou need to gradually put the points back in circuit one at a time untill it blows the fuse. Also try and get hold of a dc clamp style ammeter.
scott
Beware of parallel return paths and parelleled circuits:wave
BTW cheers for the pointers mate! :D
OK, the unit is back in and car starts quicker with it in :confused:
Also, if I put a higher rate fuse in and flick the lmain lights on, the revs drop so I presume there is grounding some where? (or a lack of?). If I remove the fuse the revs stay set when the headlights are put on...
The dash lights etc don\'t come on, but for a guess the grounding (or lack of) is preventing the lights? I think i may be getting somewhere now.
Just need the help from someone with a better understanding than me :(
Oh, the remote start unit has the following wires free (coming off the unit) - Yellow, green and grey whilst wires coming in from under the dash (and god knows where) are red and white. Red is coming off the handbreak signal so I guess I need to find the units handbreak input.
The remote start unit is a Starbo RS1500 if helps...
Anyone?
Swaping fuese is a bad idea. Remember what i said about circuit protection. That means you are possibly over rating the cable. It is doing that due to the magnetic coupling of the alternator coused by incrreased load on the output windings. Basically the higher requirement of current puts greater load on the windings of the stator. this causes a magnetic flux (cutting) of the rotor windings Slowing it down. higher the load the greater the magnetic flux. its a reversed emf.
I should think it had a switch wire for the hand barke so it knew if the car was driven off with out the key in the ignition ie on remote start
scott:wave
I figured its not good, but I just wanted to test to see if they came on. I take it i\'m correct in assuming an incorrect grounding somewhere in the system?
I guess the solution is a auto electrician? Or do you have any idea how I can fix it?
EDIT
Forgot to say, as recommend, I\'m making me a grounding setup for the rex anyway (on order for the weekend) to improve pick up etc. Should be good :)
try what i said bud. split the circuit see if it hold in
scott
QuoteOriginally posted by sdminus
try what i said bud. split the circuit see if it hold in
scott
Which circuits can I split?!? I\'m game to take some off but don\'t know how or where to start?
pull the fuse. now tell what doesnt work
scott
Dash illumination, side lights and rear lights and finally rear heated window...
Looking at the schematic there isa diode in the panel lamp control switch. try and by pass it.
It is mainly all doide controlled so is fairly fool proof. check for reverse polarity in the dash
here is a run down fro my schematic
conrol unit. cpu and speedo. headlight cleaner if equiped. front fogs switch. retract head light sw..heater control. rear window defo. fag lighter. ash try .. audio.
argh.... audio. did you do something to this........
scott
QuoteOriginally posted by sdminus
Looking at the schematic there isa diode in the panel lamp control switch. try and by pass it.
It is mainly all doide controlled so is fairly fool proof. check for reverse polarity in the dash
here is a run down fro my schematic
conrol unit. cpu and speedo. headlight cleaner if equiped. front fogs switch. retract head light sw..heater control. rear window defo. fag lighter. ash try .. audio.
argh.... audio. did you do something to this........
scott
ICE is not installed at the moment (or purchased) due to this on going problem as at the moment it would obviously be a waste of cash.
You are definatley on the right track there as all of those you listed are out (bar the speedo, but I pressume it means speedo light and the head light retract button still works) but the rest are out as you say eg
front fogs switch, , heater control, rear window defo, fag lighter, ash tary and dash!When you say panel lamp control switch, do you mean the dimmer for the dash?
Yeah mate all illum lamps. its the first thing in the circuit. its a real simple circuit.
Remove it see if it makes any differance. if the pot is dirty it might play up. if the diode has blown which it could in a short circuit it could be a permanant short.
short..
were you eva anything to do with grass hopper?
scott
QuoteOriginally posted by sdminus
Yeah mate all illum lamps. its the first thing in the circuit. its a real simple circuit.
Remove it see if it makes any differance. if the pot is dirty it might play up. if the diode has blown which it could in a short circuit it could be a permanant short.
short..
were you eva anything to do with grass hopper?
scott
Nothing to do with Grass Hopper i\'m afraid mate :)
How does the dimmer come out of dash? It some how clips in but i\'m not quite sure if I should push it out the front or pull it back out of the bracket and remove it thro the din hole?
Now you have got me bud..... i dont know
scott
Right, haven\'t been able to remove the dimmer actual control out as its held in behind the din and can only be removed with the centre section out.
I actually removed the dimmer out of the equation by removing the plug out of the back of it (and thus would have taken out the illumination) but still I didn\'t have the rear lights (which are the bit I need more than anything).
With this in mind, do you think that would still be dimmer related? I think if the dimmer is taken out, the other circuits on the same fuse would still work, right?