Hi all,
A friend of mine here in Oz makes these awesome intakes:
http://www.hymee.com/philsskills/index.html
If you want to get in contact with him - let me know.
Nice!
R.
Nice casting, but won\'t flow that spectacularly. If you were going to the trouble of tooling up to make a custom 20B upper why not improve the design at the same time?
Hi Bill,
Do you think the runners should be a different shape/length or something?
I\'m pretty sure the 20B one is for a turbo, some of the others are for NA engines.
some nice casting work there, I presume the 2 rotor one on the 2nd page is for a turbo setup as it doesn\'t seem to have any space for injector bungs, throttle plates etc.
as for the flow on the 20B jobbies, having two 90 degree short radius bends is never going to be great for flow, but how else can you get some length into the intake runners and enough room to have a large plenum chamber without fitting the engine in a tube frame chassis such as one of the big power drag cars. (which incidentally seem to have much straighter manifolds)
It all depends what you are trying to achieve as to what the compromises will be.
The long stock runners that 13B and 20B are endowed with tend to be to maximise torque around 4000RPM. If you are going to the trouble of designing your own casting you will have a set of requirements for the engine, probably starting with the need for 600odd wild stallions off a big fsck off single turbo. In this case maximising flow above 4000RPM is of far more interest.
As with a casting you can get whatever shapes you require you could do all sorts of nice things to get linear tapers and convergence points to deal with the turbulence caused by a 90 degree bend.
Bill,
Almost as clear as mud! going from your first post to the second?!?!?!?
ok - lets say then, that it is for a 1400hp, 3rotor, side port, turbo drag car. How would you design it? pipe shapes, sizes, lengths, etc.? to fit into a tube chassis car? (i.e. providing a little more space as Mike has mentioned).
well for a start I would look at the numbers and see that 1400HP/3 is 466HP/rotor. I would then have a stiff whisky and try and work out what fuel would be needed and at what RPM and boost.
A wild guess would be a nasty methanol/toulene/XXX mix at 9000RPM and about 40 PSI boost. At these boost levels you would want to focus on getting as straight a shot as possible into the ports, so would go for getting a really good 1/r taper off the ports for about 10" then into a plenum. If its a space frame and you position the engine far enough back then you can put the turbo (s) under the plenum firing up. (A plan I have for the Fury)
Then off to the flow bench to test out the best way to get the air to behave in the turbo-plenum-inlet transitions.
Gimmie lots of money and I\'m sure that I could come up with something that works very well. Finding someone who can build an engine strong enough to take it could be a challenge, but there are a couple of them out there I\'m sure.
P.S Bill
Flanges arrived today. Will e-mail you.
Cheers ~ Mike
QuoteOriginally posted by bill shurvinton
well for a start I would look at the numbers and see that 1400HP/3 is 466HP/rotor. I would then have a stiff whisky and try and work out what fuel would be needed and at what RPM and boost.
A wild guess would be a nasty methanol/toulene/XXX mix at 9000RPM and about 40 PSI boost. At these boost levels you would want to focus on getting as straight a shot as possible into the ports, so would go for getting a really good 1/r taper off the ports for about 10" then into a plenum. If its a space frame and you position the engine far enough back then you can put the turbo (s) under the plenum firing up. (A plan I have for the Fury)
Then off to the flow bench to test out the best way to get the air to behave in the turbo-plenum-inlet transitions.
Gimmie lots of money and I\'m sure that I could come up with something that works very well. Finding someone who can build an engine strong enough to take it could be a challenge, but there are a couple of them out there I\'m sure.
Bill,
Phil has achieved these figures already with similar 20B manifolds.
No wild guesses involved, no paying you lots of money!!! Phil is out there doing it, his manifolds work, his tuning works, he has all the paperwork to verify his results including a 201mph 1/4 mile pass.
Again your first comment on this thread was a little \'over\' critical!!!
Glenn
Oh dear...
I thought you might have been trying some purile little fskwitted stunt with that one to try and catch me out. Hence not listing fuel being used, boost pressures, RPM etc. I list \'how\' I would do it over my break time, without time to actually run the numbers and you seize this as some sort of victory.
My comments stand. From an engineering perspective they are not \'awesome\'. If you had even half an incling of thermodynamics you would realise that.
Good on Phil though if he really can hit 1400HP with just fuel and air. I feel sorry for him having you as a friend though.
QuoteIf you had even half an incling of thermodynamics you would
.... be nearly as high as Bill on his horse! I hope your nicer in the flesh Bill!
i would off brought one even without glens subsequent posts. show me how to fit a manifold without tight radius bends init into an RX7. Thermodynamics True real world space is the issue!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by bill shurvinton
Oh dear...
I thought you might have been trying some purile little fskwitted stunt with that one to try and catch me out. Hence not listing fuel being used, boost pressures, RPM etc. I list \'how\' I would do it over my break time, without time to actually run the numbers and you seize this as some sort of victory.
My comments stand. From an engineering perspective they are not \'awesome\'. If you had even half an incling of thermodynamics you would realise that.
Good on Phil though if he really can hit 1400HP with just fuel and air. I feel sorry for him having you as a friend though.
I have to be honest Bill, I was trying to catch you out!
Good on Phil alright - he knows his stuff!
QuoteOriginally posted by bill shurvinton
Oh dear...
I thought you might have been trying some purile little fskwitted stunt with that one to try and catch me out.
I feel sorry for him having you as a friend though.
Bill whatever you and Glenn have going on , l would prefer you kept these type of extremely personal comments for the RX-7 forum or the Aus forums where it seems perfectly acceptable to offer to take someone out side and punch them !,
Well Bill it ain\'t happening in here, so from now on please do not post on each others threads due to your History !!!!.
You do bring a lot of good info to this site thankyou , but the one above was pure provocation, a 90 degree bend is a 90 degree bend for Christ\'s sake and probably built for the constraints of various cars,
The awesome comment is very much a throw away remark in Aus, and surely not enough to spark this type of behaviour!