Author Topic: The other rotary Westfield!  (Read 21776 times)

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2016, 03:48:23 PM »
Re japi..filler tube on centre iron 2 bolt flange joins to plastic tube that runs under inlet manifold and then up into filler cap...can hold alot of oil . At this flange there is a little recess for the seal so adding penny washer or suchlike its captive here and oil coming up at force under surge is held back...not a hint of oil in my catch tank after fitting. Downside is takes ages to fill up with oil. Ive know got a rubber bush from an fd rad mount in there now but original was a penny washer.
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2016, 03:51:04 PM »
Yep thats it! Cant remember size we got loads at work...if you lift flange off and measure dia . Should not be so much of prob if you have the r3 oil filler.
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Offline Smiffers

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2016, 03:56:42 PM »
To add to the confusion re japi:

Penny washers are magical things...  They are in every garage in England and no one has the foggiest (any) idea how they got there, most of the time you have no idea what to use them for either except for now!

I think they are called penny washers because they would have been the size of an old penny way back when...

I also asked my (American) wife what she calls them, she said:

Thats the washer you use when you f...ked up the first attempt at the job...  a fix-it.
Westfield SEiW - 13B-MSP BW 7670 Turbo
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2016, 04:11:33 PM »
When you top up oil wait abit...takes awhile to fill. Oil surface tension an all that. When i change oil ill take out to fill sump.
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
EAT SLEEP ROTOR REPEAT.

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2016, 04:24:33 PM »
While we are on the subject of oil, do you just use the single breather position on the filler neck?  It dawned on me that if the pan was vented on both sides you could never get the positive pressure to push the oil up the filler tube as it would be vented on the other side?

In this way you would not be restricting you breathing potential?  Not a problem for us NA boys but maybe of interest to Clive and the FI boys with the additional blow by?

Just thinking out loud...
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #125 on: January 14, 2016, 04:35:10 PM »
Yes just the 1 on the filler. My new sump has a turbo oil return but again only on left side. Have not tried this sump in anger yet. Damage to my bearing was done before the washer mod. Done a few track days on slicks fillling the catch tank with no pressure alarms going off. I also got an fd oil pressure reg from Clive... much better pressure than stock....thermal pellet in a drawer i couldnt get bolt undone on my spare engine in car. Broke the knuckle on the breaker bar and gave up exhausted
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
EAT SLEEP ROTOR REPEAT.

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #126 on: January 14, 2016, 04:37:23 PM »
The more I think about it we should be breathing two points in the sump (one on each side)...

The washer solution is a novel idea and I can see it works, but it seems a patch?  The oil will still be traveling up the filler tube under positive pressure once it covers the opening in the sump, when it meets the washer the flow rate is decreased (pressure increased) and this buys enough time for the corner to end so the oil never makes it out to the catch can.  But during this time the although the major issue is solved we have stopped all breathing to the crank case and would see an increase in pressure, this would be worse in a FI situation for sure?

Imagine the case that both sides of the sump were breathing, in the case the oil covers the fill tube the other side will be open to atmosphere and provide the path of least resistance for the positive pressure, this would mean the oil would not travel up the oil filler at all, the same is true for cornering the other way.

So to solve this problem and prevent other undesirable side effects I think we should vent both sides of the sump...?

Thoughts?

PS - Not shooting down the washer solution, I think it is great, just trying to make sure we all end up with the correct solution to the problem.
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2016, 04:43:22 PM »
Yes i agree. I dont think problem has been highlighted before as the rx8 cannot corner at the speeds we can generate. Thinking out loud screw a banjo fitting into sump plug and run a steel pipe upto catch tank....breathing both sides.
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2016, 04:45:21 PM »
Nah that wont work doh fluid covered.
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2016, 04:49:27 PM »
Hmm yeah, although you want is as high as you can get it.  My worry with the sump would be that you may get into a situation where you have covered the oil filler but still covered the sump plug so we are back to stage 1.

For Clive the solution should be simple with the FD engine...  As he is single turbo he must have one of the original oil drain (from the FD twin turbos) points not used, that would be perfect for the breather as it is right up the side of the block... perfect solution.  So Clive we have you sorted!

I wonder if those blanks exist on the RX8 castings and could be drilled (would have to drop the sump to get it done as to avoid swarf in the oil?  Also I think my R3 has an additional 'wing' on the side of the sump that could be used.

I'm going to take a look tonight and report back with ideas.
Westfield SEiW - 13B-MSP BW 7670 Turbo
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2016, 05:01:04 PM »
Clive had some surge issues...think he has a washer in there now.
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
EAT SLEEP ROTOR REPEAT.

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2016, 05:42:12 PM »
Yeah, I worry that he will solve the oil surge issue but introduce an oil leak issue due to a pressurised sump!  It is going to be worse with the FI motor than our NA.

I'm sure he will see our ramblings today though.  Will report back tonight on a plan of attack!  I must say it is nice discussing these things rather than stewing in your own thoughts!  Together we will win! (or at the very least get to the finish - LOL)
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2016, 05:57:23 PM »
Yes mate...sharing issues and finding solutions great...this spare engine is gonna get a battering this year b4 the bridge goes back in. I wanna convert my live rear to irs and that is a big headache too.
92 FD rx7 Twins 13.5psi.  EX Track car
EAT SLEEP ROTOR REPEAT.

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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2016, 06:00:15 PM »
So in the centre plate the is the oil fill hole (a short round pipe with two threaded holes either side), that bolts to a (in the case of the RX8) plastic filler tube that puts the oil fill in a (not so) handy place to aid getting oil into the engine (it also has a breather).  Put a washer between the two parts to restrict the oil travelling up the fill tube by restricting the size of the orifice.

Does that help?

Ok, now I understand :) Thanks gents
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Re: The other rotary Westfield!
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2016, 06:02:06 PM »
To add to the confusion re japi:

Penny washers are magical things...  They are in every garage in England and no one has the foggiest (any) idea how they got there, most of the time you have no idea what to use them for either except for now!

I think they are called penny washers because they would have been the size of an old penny way back when...

I also asked my (American) wife what she calls them, she said:

Thats the washer you use when you f...ked up the first attempt at the job...  a fix-it.

Ok, that was funny!  :57:
Power is nothing without control. Weight is enemy of performance, handling and braking.

http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/japi_laukkanen/library/Japi?sort=3&page=1