Author Topic: engine transplant  (Read 1741 times)

m_reed

  • Guest
engine transplant
« on: August 22, 2008, 01:11:06 PM »
Hi,
 
A year back I got an old school Rx7 1983 with a 12a engine in it, my plan was to do it up and put a turbo engine it it, but my circumstances changed and I had to get rid. I have just got the same car back and want a project so Iam going to do it up and put a turbo engine it.
 
What I want to know is which turbo I should put in it and is it a straight swap? I have done engine conversions before but in vauxhalls.
 
Thanks Mark:)

Offline Cooch

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 10:52:58 PM »
What bad things dude? Id love to help but ive never done one. Someone here should know.

m_reed

  • Guest
engine transplant
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 11:26:22 PM »
Hi,
 
Well I fancied something different I have a scooby at the moment but also an old 1983 rx7, and wanted to put a turbo engine in and get some decent power, but all I read about is cooling prooblem, loss of compression and basicaly unrealiable stuff.
 
I mean please tell me if iam wrong as I know nothing about rotary engines, you guys know more than me, but would like to a see a 1983 generation 1 with more than 300hp when it is suppose to have 100bhp 12a engine lol.
 
Thanks Mark:)

logicalChimp

  • Guest
engine transplant
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 01:24:34 AM »
As I understand it, the \'problem\' with a mk1 is that the chasis is not set up to handle that sort of power (dodgy suspension, etc)

The general issues with rotaries are heat and compression - but unless you put silly amounts of mods on, or don\'t pay enough attention to the reliability mods, they are reasonably robust (equal or better than the \'chocolate scoobies\')

obviously, if you\'re uprating the turbo etc for more power, you have to increase your cooling...  its when folks do the power mods first, intending to do the \'extra bits\' later that engines get unhappy...

edit: i\'ve just read what i wrote - what a load of drivel - i knew i shouldn\'t post late at night :D

Offline Carl

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,947
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.mazdarotary.co.uk
engine transplant
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 09:21:15 AM »
Hi Mark,
Lot\'s of people on this site have done allsorts of conversions.
We do engine swaps all the time.
If you need any help give me a ring on 01635 255545,we offer loads of free advice!
Oh,and the engine\'s are nothing like all the horror stories you are hearing.
Regards
Carl
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 04:12:47 PM by kev-yorks »

m_reed

  • Guest
engine transplant
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 10:58:35 AM »
Thanks for the replys guys,
 
I fancy doing this project purely because I have a gen 1 its a bit rusty but fancy getting the body work soted then sticking a turbo engine in it would like around 300hp,
 
I would hate for it to go to the scrap yard, plus I like to be different, my mate doesnt want me to do it as he says the cars ogly but thats opinion, I think its because Iam only 26, he says its an old mans car lol he wants me to stop in the scoob, told him Iam keeping both any way lol
 
Thanks again Mark

travellinbob

  • Guest
engine transplant
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 12:53:24 PM »
archbish would def be an excellent person to tal to as his car is really starting to take shap and pretty much any hassle you will come across with the conversion he has overcome. Oh and dont be all freaked out about the cars not handleing the power etc.....just look on ausrotary to see how many old skoolers have been given 300+ hp and get on fine with it.
 cheers, hope to hear how you get on soon.

Offline kiwimazda

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 952
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 11:15:27 PM »
Arch bish is defo your man
I also know of another RX7(Sa22 model) with Turbo 13b lump.
Its a good car and handles well. In fact I know of plenty 1st gens with 200+ hp and no handling issues.
I hope your project goes well and any questions please just ask

Cheers
Brian

m_reed

  • Guest
engine transplant
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 11:47:32 PM »
Hi,
 
Thanks for the positive replys guys, I will keep you all informed.
 
Mark

Offline drutin

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 12:22:21 AM »
hello,
 
13BT engine into a first gen is relatively simple, the engines i use for the conversion are series 4/5 (FC) or the cosmo 13BTT engines,
i can use the series 5 turbos in the conversion and an easy 300hp is achievable
you do have to upgrade the fuel cooling systems etc to have the best result
 
and rotaries are very reliable as long as setup correctly, any engine with a system not working correctly will blow up and be unreliable
dont read and accept alot of internet threads to be the truth, ring and talk to the correct people ie a rotary shop, dont listen to hearsay :)
 
you can use first gen gearboxes or use series 4/5 (FC), i can also do the brake upgrades on them too
 
do you want to do it yourself or do you want someone else to do it for you ???
 
i can do the conversions but im in northern ireland and you would need to bring the car over if you wanted it done
 
i think if you search on this site alot of threads are similar to what your asking
 
later
glen
 
ps i am currently working on a 13BTT with a S5 gearbox in a series 3 rx7, gotta love power to weight
whatever spins your wheels:)

but if it aint a rotor it aint a motor :)

http://www.rotorworks.co.nz/ireland

Offline Archbish

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,328
  • Karma: +34/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.archbish.com
engine transplant
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 07:38:35 AM »
Hi Mark,

Sorry, I hadn\'t seen the post on here before, but it sounds like you\'re coming from roughly the same starting point I did, so hopefully the below is of some use.

As background, I already have a 3rd Gen, but decided I wanted a bit of a retro cool project to do everything myself, so bought a 1st gen Shell and an engine and gearbox from a turbo 2.  

To get the engine to fit, you need to
- modify/make a new gearbox mount to line the holes up on the chassis.  
- the 13bt engine has mounts on the side, but the 12a mounts on the front.  Therefore the engine can be mounted by either swapping the front plate to the first gen 12a plate, or welding on blocks of aluminium to the 13bt front plate so you can drill and tap them.  (I went down the front plate route - it looks better, but you will lose the Oil Metering pump so you will have to use premix).
- the sump and oil pickup will need to be changed to miss the crossmember (I bought mine from Pip, but I\'m guessing most people will be able to get their hands on this).
- you have the choice of using the normal engine mount and cutting the gearstick hole back, or replacing the mount to bring the engine and gearbox forward.
- The propshaft from the 13bt and the 1st gen will have to be merged.
- a new manifold can be bought from Aus for about £200 to mount the turbo so it clears the steering box (there are rumours you can rotate the manifold and it will fit once a couple of holes are drilled, but I didn\'t look at that).
- I\'m assuming a new fuelpump will be required to provide enough fuel to keep the bad boy running? (I really did get a basic chassis!!)
- then it\'s downpipe, wiring, intercooler, and job done...

My car is in the Readers Projects section of last months Practical Performance Car, and there\'s more details on Exile and here\'s a couple of pics:



I have got slightly carried away now, with a T04s turbo, replacing all the suspension components, interior, will be buying a Microtech ECU, bosch coils, complete respray...  But learning loads as I go.

There are loads on here that should be able to help, along with Exile (where they\'ve been putting rotaries into cars from a morris traveller to a chevette!!), and on Ausrotary (they do it as standard almost there, but search first - they can get quite grumpy answering the same question for the 5th time.... *grin*)

Please do ask if there\'s anything you think I can help with.
Everyone wants to be like ArchBish,
Cos the Bish is never glum.
Its hard to be unhappy
when the sun shines out your bum

Offline shaunwil

  • Extra Special Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Major Contributor
  • *****
  • Location: Preston
  • Posts: 6,905
  • Karma: +56/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 08:05:25 AM »
If you keep the same gear ratio the thing will be faster than the scoob :D

The parts to swap over to the 13b engine aren\'t hard to aquire and the engine bolts straight upto the original 12a gearbox :D

The hardest bit is slotting the engine mount, swapping the sump over to a GSLE 13b sump using the original 12a cover.

I would say that by far the 1st gen section of RX7club.com has the most information about the swap.

Trust me it will make you smile every time you drive it, especially with 300bhp. I do with 125bhp. And I own a 385bhp FD too !

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline Archbish

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,328
  • Karma: +34/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.archbish.com
engine transplant
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2008, 09:14:21 AM »
Oh, I was talking about a gearbox and engine swap, Shaun is obviously talking engine only.  

Shaun - when you say to slot the engine mount - in what way??  (only cos I don\'t know, and want to learn...!)
Everyone wants to be like ArchBish,
Cos the Bish is never glum.
Its hard to be unhappy
when the sun shines out your bum

Offline shaunwil

  • Extra Special Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Major Contributor
  • *****
  • Location: Preston
  • Posts: 6,905
  • Karma: +56/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2008, 04:19:37 PM »
Its only slotted if you swap to a 13b. The 13b is 20mm longer than the 12a and the engine won\'t bolt down in the right place if the engine mount that is bolted to the front of the engine isn\'t slotted by the difference.

Sorry if this is off topic :Giggle

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline Rotaryguru

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
engine transplant
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2008, 10:47:03 PM »
I\'ve met a few of the exile guys, and they are great!!!

I built my Turbo S1 RX7 with a 12A Turbo, sourced out of a HB cosmo. 1000cc injectors, non intercooled, never got to dyno it, but it used to do this!!!!:eek:eek:eek