Author Topic: Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?  (Read 13376 times)

Offline ianelvar

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« on: June 17, 2009, 11:14:39 AM »
Anyone do their own tuning? There\'s a fairly big DIY scene in the states, but I\'ve not seen anyone on the forums here talking about it. I\'ve got a fair bit of experience myself, having worked on a few of my cars and mapped a few project cars for other people. I\'ve done a couple of MK1 MR2\'s, an E30 BMW drift car with a 2.7 turbo engine (300bhp) and a 2.0 T28 turbo scirocco (280 bhp + nitrous) running high 12\'s on the strip.
I\'m going to do the tuning on my forthcoming FD track project, and while I could talk to the guys in the states, it would be nice to get something going here.

Ian

Offline BlitzBoy

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 11:25:27 AM »
Me and DaveHG do quite a bit of mapping using Datalogit on the Apexi PowerFC, there are a couple of others on here doing the same
"Piston Killa" 3rd Gen\'94 \'Oldone Racing Full Bridge Ported REW 13b engine with SCR seals\'. HKS T51 KAI turbo BBM mapped Motec ECU

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Offline Prof

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 11:47:29 AM »
I\'ve just started dabbling in this, all be it with a piggy back unit (emanage) so I am starting with someone elses work as a base, but finding information is as much or more of a chore than actually getting the laptop connected and tweaking the tables.
 
As you say, there\'s much more info on the forums abroad - US and AUS sites - about how to get started and for advice.  Might be nice to get something started here.
"Plus this engine is probably one of the most volumetric engines going! It passes more air than a herd of cows eating vindaloo\'s" - courtesy of AtomicRex
 

Offline Speedworks

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 11:50:04 AM »
I am using a PFC and Datalogit, together with a Innovative LC1 wideband and Excell spreadsheet for AFR tuning.


I have a bunch of maps (search rx7club.com for member \'hwnd\') to compare with and use base maps.

I also have the Chuck westbrook tuning notes which are pretty handy to get to understand all the different features and their use

Offline Prof

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 12:12:05 PM »
Quote from: Speedworks;617215
I am using a PFC and Datalogit, together with a Innovative LC1 wideband and Excell spreadsheet for AFR tuning.
 
 
I have a bunch of maps (search rx7club.com for member \'hwnd\') to compare with and use base maps.
 
I also have the Chuck westbrook tuning notes which are pretty handy to get to understand all the different features and their use

I found 2 good discussion threads - one on timing and one on AFR\'s for rotary\'s - which I printed out - can\'t remember if that was on RX7club.com or one of the other FC sites, but ironically I found them whilst browsing the rx8club.com for emanage info.  I\'ll dig out the papers tonight and post the links up - some good reading.
"Plus this engine is probably one of the most volumetric engines going! It passes more air than a herd of cows eating vindaloo\'s" - courtesy of AtomicRex
 

Offline dthebuk

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 03:18:01 PM »
Quote from: Prof;617222
 I\'ll dig out the papers tonight and post the links up - some good reading.


Please do, ive always wondered how this mapping stuff works :D


\'91 FC TII - Drifter... Under construction :D
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Kieron

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 03:44:38 PM »
I\'ll be doing mine once I\'ve finished building it. Will be calling Blitzboy for help ;)

Offline ianelvar

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »
Excellent, we\'ve got a few then :) I looked into the datalogit option, but it\'s fairly pricey compared to the plain old serial cable I use with the megasquirt. What\'s the tuning interface like with the datalogit? Do you get a 3d graphical representation, or just the figures?
I\'ll have a look at maps later on and the papers once prof posts them - thanks for the info. I\'m really interested in the spark advance table for the rotary, and how its needs differ from a piston engine. Fuel mapping\'s always a breeze with a wideband anyway, and once the timing\'s right I never find it takes very long. I have a techedge WB myself, which I built from a kit.
I\'ve got no experience on the rotary yet, but if I can help anyone with general tuning info I\'d be happy to pass on what I know.

Offline Prof

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 06:52:23 PM »
ok,
 
found the docs, they are on an FC3S site, but the timing is applicable to FB / FC / FD and even the RX8.
 
This one is for timing:
 
http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=41915
 
This one is for AFR\'s:
 
http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=38317
 
I\'ve some other bits and bobs somewhere as well, but these 2 are a good place to start.
"Plus this engine is probably one of the most volumetric engines going! It passes more air than a herd of cows eating vindaloo\'s" - courtesy of AtomicRex
 

lee mills

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 06:55:10 PM »
Can this thread be made into a sticky hopefully there will be some valuable info as the thread progresses

Offline kev-yorks

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 08:43:57 PM »
I\'ll sticky and move to engine and tech section Lee.
Regards Kevin

lee mills

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 08:51:10 PM »
Cheers Kev

Offline slingo

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 10:23:19 PM »
Could you leave the timing map alone with say street port , single turbo and power fc and just do a/f ?

Offline Prof

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 11:17:25 PM »
The timing will come from a base map - which will be enough to get the car running before it goes to a tuner to be mapped properley.  If you\'re doing the tuning yourself then you\'ll probably need to make changes to the timing.  The thing is, changes you make to timing will affect AFR\'s and vice versa - so you\'ll almost certainly end up needing to make some adjustments.
 
It could be something silly like the plug types you use - may require more advance or retard to run smoothly.
 
The stock ECU I am using is chipped and has very different timing maps to the stock ECU I had before.  I\'ve run both with the eManage so that I could see what the differences were.
 
The chipped ECU has considerably less split (between leading and trailing plugs) in the non boost part of the map which gives much better response low down in the map.  It pushes the advance out as far as is safe when off boost, then quickly pulls timing back as boost is made.  About the only changes I had to make to the timing were a little bit more retarded towards the top end of boost in the mid revs, as that\'s where the most likelyhood of knock will be.
 
I am guessing that a base map will not be optimised for your particular engine so it would pay to set that up first, then once done you can sort out AFR\'s for best power with safety.  Timing will not be as advanced as it could be, and that\'s for safety.  So if you want the most power and torque from the engine then you\'ll need to do the timing.
"Plus this engine is probably one of the most volumetric engines going! It passes more air than a herd of cows eating vindaloo\'s" - courtesy of AtomicRex
 

Offline slingo

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Mapping - Who\'s tried it themselves?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 06:30:27 PM »
Quote from: Prof;617492
The timing will come from a base map - which will be enough to get the car running before it goes to a tuner to be mapped properley. If you\'re doing the tuning yourself then you\'ll probably need to make changes to the timing. The thing is, changes you make to timing will affect AFR\'s and vice versa - so you\'ll almost certainly end up needing to make some adjustments.
 
It could be something silly like the plug types you use - may require more advance or retard to run smoothly.
 
The stock ECU I am using is chipped and has very different timing maps to the stock ECU I had before. I\'ve run both with the eManage so that I could see what the differences were.
 
The chipped ECU has considerably less split (between leading and trailing plugs) in the non boost part of the map which gives much better response low down in the map. It pushes the advance out as far as is safe when off boost, then quickly pulls timing back as boost is made. About the only changes I had to make to the timing were a little bit more retarded towards the top end of boost in the mid revs, as that\'s where the most likelyhood of knock will be.
 
I am guessing that a base map will not be optimised for your particular engine so it would pay to set that up first, then once done you can sort out AFR\'s for best power with safety. Timing will not be as advanced as it could be, and that\'s for safety. So if you want the most power and torque from the engine then you\'ll need to do the timing.

 i did get a map from rx7club which takes you through the pfc with a datalogic and using a wideband on a to4e tubby,he said that hes not going for as much power as he can get so is leaving the ign map as it comes on the pfc and just doing the a/f ,so what hes doing isnt safe or healthy for a good map ?