Author Topic: Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.  (Read 9385 times)

Offline shaunwil

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2008, 01:11:36 PM »
Blimey this is a bit of a blast from the past ! I\'m running a Egi engine on a Impco Carb with the LPG. Had a lot of trouble finding a manifold for the setup though.

Have a quick look under the threads I\'ve started for info on how I did my 1st gen.

I get about 18mpg on LPG in the 1st gen with a 6 port 13b !

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline Brett

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2008, 01:17:51 PM »
A guy on here called jeted was running LPG on his EGi.  The EGi\'s are very poor on fuel, but you should be able to get over 200miles from a tank.

What sort of journeys are you doing?  How do you drive?  

(If this goes too off topic I will split the thread and put this part of it in the 2nd gen section)
At the end of the day, it\'s meant to be fun - not a political movement! :burnout
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Offline Don Pamponi

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2009, 07:09:18 PM »
I\'d be very interested to see how this comes off.  I have a 12AT with a microtec so it could bolt straight on! (providing you dont blow yours up first :Giggle)
Now with added boost!  :burnout

Offline shaunwil

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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2009, 07:18:27 PM »
The biggest headache with the egi is having the gas pressure control the fueling table.

I\'ve run LPG N/A carb\'d for over 15k miles !

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Waddock

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 10:01:04 PM »
40p a litre sounds good to me but free hydrogen sounds even better. The only thing that worries me is technically I won\'t be a petrolhead any more :)

I will keep an eye on this thread. If anyone gets a working LPG/ hydrogen FD with big BHp you will help to free the Rex for daily usage!

Are there less emitions with LPG ? It may help keep the cars on the road in future if the government introduce stricter Mot rules.

Offline shaunwil

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2009, 10:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Waddock;585562
Are there less emitions with LPG ? It may help keep the cars on the road in future if the government introduce stricter Mot rules.


Yes they do. The FB has passed without any emissions kit on it. But it is based on an mot for a 23yr old car !

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline Ricco_04

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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 10:45:52 AM »
What sort of emissions result did you get, whats on the sheet (if you have it handy and dont mind? :)

I understand there will be some sort of emissions from LPG but not the ones they test for, like Co?

Also being that the engines have the OMP that will cause emissions too but guessing these will be trace as the car is static when tested?

Offline shaunwil

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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 06:12:45 PM »
Not actually sure !!!

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline Ricco_04

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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2009, 11:26:53 PM »
Ah no worries mate, cheers :cheers

bumpstart

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 10:06:04 AM »
hi ! i have been using a blow through mixer with dedicated LPG in my FC for a few years now
( since 2006 )
- both with a modded dizzy on a mild port ( with fully custom inlet and TB )
,, and with a microtech running the coils on a 6 port hybrid block with modded turbo inlet manifolds and stock TB

i am using model E convertor, impco 225 mixer and a 65L underfloor tank at the rear

40 L usable litres of LPG ( i get pure propane locally )
at around 62 aussie cents per litre gets me 200 km,,
,,,,,,,  almost $25 per 200km

( premium 98 RON unleaded is around $1.30 per litre in comparisons )
of which most FC turbo\'s would happily use 30 L of to get that far
,,,,,,,,so that works out to be nearly $40 per 200 km

and propane  has ( lots ) more than 98 RON !!!!

PS
-- no issues with apex seal wear on the mild port with 30 000 km on old already s/h hard seals
and they are remarkably clean inside !!!


PSS

-- here is the standalone EOMP driver i have helped develop
,, so as to give metering options for latter engines with EOMP wanting LPG

The Electronic Oil Metering Pump Controller - And other technical errata..

Offline Rub87

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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2009, 07:22:39 PM »
Isn\'t it the easiest for a low modded car to use stock fuel ecu and a sort of direct port piggyback ecu to control the lpg injectors? I\'ve seen some of these setups, works real easy, ignition is done by the stock ecu, when driving on lpg, the stock injector pulses are intercepted and used as a baseline for the lpg ecu, in the lpg you have 3d maps available to finetune the lpg injector duration versus the pertrol injector duration based on some inputs, like rpm, temp.. this way closed loop operation etc all works, the lpg delivery is independant on lpg "rail pressure", as there is a sensor on the rail and the lpg ecu also has a map signal so the total quantity of lpg is unaffected when running boost/vacum
 
In school we have a project with hydrogen fueling a normal petrol engine, and it seems they\'re using just a motec ecu and lpg injectors (2 per cilminder), high pressure hydrogen tank (so gaseous storage), but liquid or chemical storage are also possibilities

Offline shaunwil

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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2009, 09:55:06 PM »
One of the biggest headaches I\'ve found with that is the rotary uses sequential injectors. There is a system on the market that is for the Rx8 that will work and the Rx8 has 3 injectors per rotor on the 231 model !

Another issue is gas pressure, the LPG needs to be at a decent pressure to work with the multi fuel bosch 1600cc injectors. something like 65psi gives you the same performance as 1300cc injectors. However I\'m not sure anybody manufactures a regulator that will flow enough that is lpg certified. The only information I haven\'t found is what pressure the injection vaporisers run at, maybe this would be an option.

Another issue is the system doesn\'t use any pumps at all and a return line is very hard.

Hydrogen is quite hard. There was a really good thread about people trying to get a Stock engine to run on it. Not sure how they got on.

You can run Haltech (with an addon box) and a LINKecu so correct with gas pressure correction in the map. This is what the piggyback boxes do !

Its a definitely interesting project !

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

Offline CharlieP

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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2010, 08:26:48 AM »
Any news!?
Back to the top...let\'s get on the gas!:3gears-rh

Offline shaunwil

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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2010, 10:36:44 AM »
The other big problem as well is room for the tank. Even if you cut the spare well out there is a support rib in the way of the tank and it wouldn\'t be that big !

I have been busy on another project so haven\'t really done any more investigation. The 13b REW will more likely run on gas once its in the FB :Giggle

Shaun
1994 White FD with A-spec GT3574R - 358bhp at the hubs at 0.9bar :3gears-lh
2003 Mondeo 2lt 130ps Diesel Estate Daily :driving

bumpstart

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Rotory Engines on Gas Discussion.
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2011, 12:50:29 AM »
here is something out of the ordinary i have done for a mate
its a b2000 with a 13b engine with s4 turbo, with LPG

,, using an unusual combination of end plates with some porting and decked out with the single TB manifolds i made for LPG on my rx7
( my rx7 is still LPG mixer,, just using stock manifolds )

genuine examples of b1600 utes with factory 13b where sold in the mid 70\'s in the USA , known as REPU\'s
 this one is done with a 12a rx7 front engine bracket and s4 spark side feet welded on to full chassis


here is the first start vid ( with vac and exhaust leaks )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1jl7dXI7Yw


i built and supplied the engine and driveline
and did the rotor conversion and wiring and dizzy mods
 also built the turbo and the exhaust system and fitted a chaser/supra intercooler in the passenger fender


this engine is a RESI 6 port,, tall port primary ,, with rx4 rotors
the LPG system is custom plenum, VN TB, impco 225 and model E converter
the dizzy is leading only DFI using bosch BIMS and HEC coils , modded curve and 12at retard pot


after the run-in a s trim baby hybrid turbo was fitted
and without much of a tune ( just stabbed the modded dizzy ) it has made 286 rwhp at 13 psi ( on the little S trim hifi hiflow )
it is returning costs of about $25 per 200 km in LPG fuel



turbo s5 LIM , custom plenum for single 65 mm TB
port matched to 6 p block





ports and housings




cross port end plates on the secondary /auxiliary ports


old anchor


engine mounts


s5 turbo gearbox mods


engine built and ready to fit


engine in