Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Queries / Hints and Tips on purchasing a rotary => Topic started by: cib24 on March 16, 2015, 09:27:59 PM

Title: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on March 16, 2015, 09:27:59 PM
Hello MRC,

I don't know if I have ever posted on this forum but I browse it almost daily. I'm an RX-8 owner and tend to spend most of my time posting on RX8OC but I think the people on this forum are the best to ask for the following advice. I've owned my RX-8 since October/November 2013 and originally chose this car because it was cheap to buy, cheap to rebuild, good for learning how to drive on track and learn about RWD, and it was one of the only sports cars I could realistically insure at the time since I had no previous driving history in the UK being an American and not being able to transfer over my license. I went down the "buy cheap and upgrade it yourself route" and ended up doing quite a bit to the car (i.e. spending too much since RX-8's in general are worth little on the used market). I use my car for weekend trips and track days (about 8-10 per year) equating to 6-8k miles per year.

I've enjoyed the car and continue to enjoy it but now that I've had my UK license for a few years insurance on more exciting stuff is much more affordable and I have a bit of spare cash lying around at the moment so I'm semi-actively looking at getting something faster and more unique. I was a kid in the 90s so turbocharged Japanese muscle from that era has always been close to my heart. I have a strong desire to own one or two of these infamous legends at some point in my life and this desire of mine is magnified by the fact that in the UK you can actually buy most of these cars, whereas in the US you cannot unless you pay ridiculous import prices (and even then they might not be registrable depending on the state you live in). So, I've been looking around and I think I have settled on three completely different types of cars, with my preference in the following order:


My realistic budget which won't require justification to my wife is £15k but if the car is a must have then I can stretch a little higher without issue (except a possible divorce :D).

Whilst an RX-7 is my most desired of the three above, there is a big problem with this car for me. I have very high standards when it comes to cars and I have not found one FD for sale in the UK in recent months that is in good enough shape, and I have viewed at least 5 in person.

My current car is by no means in showroom condition as that was impossible buying cheap with a low compression motor, but once it was in my possession I had the engine rebuilt in the first two weeks and then had the underbody rust treated and minor paint correction done. It sits in a garage and is washed and waxed when necessary. If the car were more valuable I would have spent more restoring the car to near original condition.

I want my next car to be something special and basically what I'm looking for is 4-4.5/5 exterior and paint quality, a minimum A-/B+ interior and virtually no rust (or at most surface rust that can be properly treated and restored without cutting or welding). This seems to be impossible with RX-7s in this country and it is relatively understandable given their age and Mazda's painting incompetence and inability to do any rust prevention from the factory.

As a result, I have looked heavily into Nissan Skyline R32's and R33's since they seem to be in much better shape overall for not much more money, they can be modified just as much as an RX-7 and they are depreciation-proof. Obviously, I know they are quite expensive to maintain and don't handle as well out of the box as an FD. I'm still doing my research on these but it seems like you can get a well modified example within my budget that's been looked after.

Finally, I've looked into Evo X's and this is the one my wife likes the most (although in reality she would probably prefer that I buy a BMW...) because it's the newest of the three and it has the most practicality. I quite like them as well having test driven one but I'm a bit put off by the AWD system being too competent and making track days a bit bland. At least the Skylines are somewhat RWD-biased.

I know this is a rotary club so I'm expecting a lot of sway towards the RX-7 which is fine. If you can convince me that finding a FD in the condition that I demand is actually possible and you can point me to some examples then that could help me keep looking, but I'm also interested in your opinions on the other two cars as well.

TL:DR - I'm a current RX-8 owner semi-actively looking to upgrade to something quicker and more unique. I've narrowed my choices down to a Mazda RX-7, Nissan Skyline R32/R33 and possibly a Mistubishi Evo X. I'm after a grade 4-4.5/5 car with an interior in excellent condition and no rust but finding an FD that meets these requirements seems impossible. My budget is up to £15k and the car will be used for weekends and track days equating to 6-8k miles per year. I'm indifferent as to whether the car is stock or modified, but if modified it must be done correctly. Please help me decide!
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: Alexsavv on March 16, 2015, 10:15:08 PM
Hey, give me a call on 07902968889, I have something for you
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: clive on March 17, 2015, 08:10:57 AM
Welcome to MRC Roy,

From the post above you may well have an FD coming your way  :)

I know you have listed other cars above but pound for pound the FD will win every time for a very very quick car  plus the RX-7 has far more charisma that those mentioned  :0012397:
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: re japi on March 17, 2015, 12:11:59 PM
Well, if you are doing a car just for fun and track...

r32 is awesome car. But r33 is too fat and heavy..

Evos are great too. But I would choose older model just because they have much simple electronics. And they are easier to modify. Evo 5 and 6 are great.

Then there is Fd. Needles to say that they are awesome! But you could do rx8 with turbo/charger, and just lose weight. That would be brilliant track weapon ;)
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on March 17, 2015, 01:33:57 PM
I'm hesitant to put any additional significant money into the RX-8 for two reasons:


It just seems very difficult to source a quality FD at the moment whereas there are plenty of Skyline's to choose from which are already tastefully modified and will most certainly not lose their value.

I'm in no rush at the moment though as my RX-8 runs great and is still exciting to drive on track. I want to make sure that my next purchase, if and when it happens, is for the right car. One that I will truly cherish and enjoy beyond what the RX-8 already offers.
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: Alexsavv on March 17, 2015, 01:49:43 PM
I've had a skyline R32 and also the FD, nothing drives like an FD when you contact me I will show you what I have
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on March 18, 2015, 11:39:44 AM
Thanks Alex. I'm still looking and I guess I will start looking at importing one and see what that entails.
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: C J R on March 18, 2015, 09:41:03 PM
Hi,
I remember you posting when you were originally looking to get in to Rotary ownership, but were restricted due to licence ownership in the UK.

So, I too looked at Evo's (great car 4 wheel drive, lots of 'safe' electricals to ensure you get round the corner safely), GTR's, I concur R32 are desired, R33 I liked, but were heavy and R34, very heavy but newer. I did read a lot on the internet about Nissan and Mitzi engines going 'pop' after short ownership.
Then there is the RX7 FD. A car I had admired since being a youthful young guy. Swoopy lines, great handling, awesome looks and potential for awesome power.
I was sold !! I researched the internet and forums, talked to a lot of different owners and looked at a few FD's. Decided single turbo was the best option (for me), removed 'rats nest', improved engine/turbo history (compression test essential).
I paid over the odds for my FD, but the engine lasted for 4 years with hard ownership (including drag racing and track days) which only let me down after I changed the oil for a very cheap brand.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ( and still do enjoy) FD ownership. Yes it can be challenging at times when stuff goes wrong or breaks, but I experience that with the other newer vehicles in my small fleet.
What I do still have is the experience of driving the FD which still produces 'goose bumps' and turns heads.

So, in summary, its always a personal decision, all I can share with you is my similar decision making process.

Good luck
Chris
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: Casey on March 19, 2015, 10:28:21 AM
Hi Roy, and welcome to the MRC  :)

I can't help with your search for your dream FD, but I wish you luck in your quest!

See you at a trackday again sometime soon  :)
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on March 19, 2015, 10:42:15 AM
Hi,
I remember you posting when you were originally looking to get in to Rotary ownership, but were restricted due to licence ownership in the UK.

So, I too looked at Evo's (great car 4 wheel drive, lots of 'safe' electricals to ensure you get round the corner safely), GTR's, I concur R32 are desired, R33 I liked, but were heavy and R34, very heavy but newer. I did read a lot on the internet about Nissan and Mitzi engines going 'pop' after short ownership.
Then there is the RX7 FD. A car I had admired since being a youthful young guy. Swoopy lines, great handling, awesome looks and potential for awesome power.
I was sold !! I researched the internet and forums, talked to a lot of different owners and looked at a few FD's. Decided single turbo was the best option (for me), removed 'rats nest', improved engine/turbo history (compression test essential).
I paid over the odds for my FD, but the engine lasted for 4 years with hard ownership (including drag racing and track days) which only let me down after I changed the oil for a very cheap brand.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ( and still do enjoy) FD ownership. Yes it can be challenging at times when stuff goes wrong or breaks, but I experience that with the other newer vehicles in my small fleet.
What I do still have is the experience of driving the FD which still produces 'goose bumps' and turns heads.

So, in summary, its always a personal decision, all I can share with you is my similar decision making process.

Good luck
Chris

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the reply. I remember riding in your car at Snetterton last year and it was thrilling. Judging by the condition of your car, the trailer it arrived on that day, and the extent of the modifications I can tell you are very passionate about FD's. I still have a photo of your FD somewhere when I was taking photos that day. I hope to see you at another track event in the future and perhaps I can ask you a few more questions about RX-7s.
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on March 19, 2015, 11:54:32 AM
Hi Roy, and welcome to the MRC  :)

I can't help with your search for your dream FD, but I wish you luck in your quest!

See you at a trackday sometime soon  :)

Hi Malcolm,

I'm still happy with my RX-8 and will make sure to keep on top of its maintenance and condition if/until I find a suitable replacement in a RX-7 or R32. Hopefully Aston actually answers his phone and my emails and slots me in for a service ahead of our next track day in April (maybe he doesn't want my money?). Otherwise I will need to make the long trek to Hayward Rotary which is just more difficult to justify commuting to for general servicing.

I'm still adamant on catching up to your times at Snetterton but I may never be able to without better brakes or tires!
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: Mir on March 19, 2015, 04:16:58 PM
My only input is that; once you have a proper FD, You will "never" let go of it. I have searched for my dream FD for 8 years and at the end I got what I always wanted - A UK Spec FD (124 Cars ever made), 57 THOUSAND MILES on the clock, full service history from Mazda, garaged for 17 years and the interior still smells like a brand new car. The engine starts hot and cold on a button and when its running you cant hear the sound of the engine! The idle is not lumpy and very stable

Judging your standard, its quite hard to say that, you would ever find what you are after because these cars are now getting rarer and old. Hence, without a compromise, its highly unlikely that you would get what you are after!

Just my two pence :)

Best of Luck
Mir
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on April 03, 2015, 10:18:48 AM
I think I may have found an FD but I could use a bit of help making my decision. There are two I'm looking at, both 1999 RS cars.

Both are nearly stock except for Apexi filters and cat-back exhausts.

One has 80,000 miles and the other has 42,000 miles.

80,000 miles car pros

80,000 miles cons

42,000 miles pros

42,000 miles cons

To me it seems like both cars could potentially require an additional £3k-4k of work done to them. The 80,000 mile car may or may not need a rebuild and the 42,000 mile car definitely needs a respray. The other determinant is simply the mileage difference. Both cars are being advertised at prices within the same ballpark.

I'm leaning towards the higher mileage car but could use some convincing. Thanks.
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: boosted on April 03, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
gotta drive the pair of them mate and go with the gut me thinks!
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: cib24 on April 03, 2015, 11:05:45 AM
Well I have been in both and driven both and I still can't decide which is why I'm asking, lol. You are right though, I should go with my gut but so far my gut is torn as well!
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: boosted on April 03, 2015, 12:12:30 PM
id then would go the decent paint 1. mileage on a fd does not concern me its maintenance or lack off....who seemed the most passionate owner and there reasons for selling a big factor as well.
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: ianmo on July 02, 2015, 11:20:19 AM
Hi
I know this post is a couple of months old now so don't know if your dilemma is sorted. But just to chuck my opinions into the mix.
I have a 2000 FD Type RB Special edition, I’ve owned it since 2005 and I’m the 3rd UK owner. I like you was torn between the RX7, an Evo (VI at the time) but also a Lancia Delta Intergrale a GTO (or 3000GT in the UK) and an NSX. I'll get to the skyline in a minute. I ruled out the NSX as too expensive, the GTO/3000GT as too heavy and the Intergrale...... although I’m kicking myself about the investment potential, i couldn't get past the rust/reliability/only left hand drive issues I also wanted to be able  to drive it occasionally without fear of it falling to bits. So it left me with an Evo or RX7.

The reason I discounted the Skyline was both my Brother and best friend both had UK (only 100 made) R33 GTR's. They are the most insane cars with brutal midrange torque. My brothers had HKS filters, a Turbo back exhaust system, race spec HKS intercooler, AP Racing Clutch and running 1 bar of boost, I estimate it was pushing 400hp it also had the biggest set of brakes I’ve seen squeezed into standard 17" wheels, AP Racing 6 pots, they were so close to the wheel that it left a clean line in the inside of the wheel rim where the wheel went past the calliper, didn't touch though, just very close.
My Best mates was lowered, filters, turbo back exhaust and a short shifter.

I decided on an RX7 for the looks and rarity value and was lucky to pick mine up at 5 years old with only 23000 miles on it, now at 15 years old it’s still only got 30000 on it and is pretty standard apart from RX8 wheels, lowered and a cat back exhaust, but i have all the standard parts to return it if necessary.

The reason i went into detail about mods is this, it depends on what mods you do, and what you’re looking for from the car, to what you buy. i loved my brothers skyline, nothing beats the thrill of him driving, me in the passenger seat and his GF in the back and an Impreza covered in rally stickers trying to have a go and getting blasted into the weeds and disappearing out of sight within half a mile, it was insane, but if we were to drag race the weight was an issue, up to about 60mph, the order would have always been me, my mate, my bro, once it lifted its skirt and got on boost the GTR's would go past and then from 100+ my Brothers would just keep pulling like a train until it hit the speed limiter like a brick wall. It also handled like it was on rails and the electronics helped it round tight corners at speed that my RX7 would be wagging its tail around, however i could always catch/pull away out the corners due to the weight and the fact that the GTR wasn't on boost. which goes to show how good the RX7 is, I was standard, giving away 4wd, 4ws and 100+ hp and yet the sequential turbo set up meant that from 1500rpm I was on boost and away before the GTR could blink.

If you’re after short, point to point bursts (track day), go for the RX7, if you’re after insane mid-range and top end (street) and want to take more than one mate out, go for the GTR.

oh and one final point, all 3 had either HKS or Blitz back boxes, and under hard acceleration through the Dartford tunnel the RX7 drowned out the noise of both GTR's........ It’s all about Smiles per gallon, not Miles per gallon
Title: Re: I'm looking for an FD...or an R32...or an Evo X
Post by: neil_jdmr on July 04, 2015, 07:51:34 PM
If it were me I'd buy the 80k miler and just budget for a rebuild when it happens. Might be 2k might be 40k.

To many variables to the lower milage car plus decent paint costs a packet.

I never pay much attention to milage and more to condition and just general buying savvy.