Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => Cosmo's and Other Rotary Powered Vehicles => Topic started by: travellinbob on October 17, 2004, 06:51:33 PM

Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 17, 2004, 06:51:33 PM
i now that over in the depths of russia there are other types of cars that are factory supplied with rotary engine. Are they ladas or some other weirdy thing. Kinda hard to do a search when I dont know the name of them.
 Also thnk that alot of them might be front wheel drive.
 Comments anyone.??:confused:
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 17, 2004, 07:36:05 PM
Ok so I just got sent some info and have done a google search on russian rotary cars and have come up with some good stuff. Does anyone know of any eastern european cars, rotary that is, living in the uk? Would be cool to have a closer look.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 17, 2004, 07:57:29 PM
havn\'t heard of any in the UK, apparently they used to do quite a few different models. The engines themselves were very closely copied from the Mazda units.

this page has some good info on Vaz Rotaries

http://members.tripod.com/cp_www/rotary/pg07.htm

I also have some photos of a fwd Rotary Samara equivilent
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 17, 2004, 08:00:17 PM
my mates both rally Riva\'s so I end up learning a fair bit about Lada\'s  They are actually very good strong rally cars and handle much better than a rwd escort as standard + they are dirt cheap.

another piccy
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 17, 2004, 08:16:37 PM
Thanks for those photos mike. Dont know why they dont have a bigger fan base myself? I did manage to find on a website that lada had some sort of sublicensing from mazda and one of the twin rotor lada engines has exactly the same housing displacement as the 13b.
he, he, he, make a good daily driver. 13b injected pp front wheel drive:D
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 17, 2004, 08:24:55 PM
they are quite well respected by rallying folk ... as are Skoda\'s

 I tend to find a lot of cars that have a bad reputation get it via the press and that its not always fully deserved. Having said that Lada\'s are awfull to work on and they are made out of very poor grade steel (albeit in armour plate thickness!!)

I don\'t think Vaz would have licensed anything from Mazda ... the commies weren\'t overly bothered by copyrights ! Ref Conkordski :rollin  that was basically copied from concorde blue prints !!
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 17, 2004, 08:44:36 PM
Mike, check uot the web site http://www.rotaryaviation.com and go  to the link russian rotaries. Makes for good reading.
 cheers., michael.
Title: Lada Rotary
Post by: Norton on October 29, 2004, 10:34:03 PM
Believe it or not, this is a Lada !!!
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 29, 2004, 10:52:47 PM
hey norton, just comes up as a box with a red x in it? is it just my computer?
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on October 29, 2004, 11:29:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by travellinbob
hey norton, just comes up as a box with a red x in it? is it just my computer?

Even when logged on to site?  Works ok on mine...
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: g11ary on October 30, 2004, 09:05:55 AM
just tried it for you and works fine for me to.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: magnusrx7 on October 30, 2004, 09:53:05 AM
Nice pic\'s Mike.

//magnus
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 30, 2004, 03:13:13 PM
Oh ok, I seem to see it now! not too sure what the problem was before, but m 99% sure it was probably me.
 Looks like a tough little race car. Know any stats on it anyone?
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 30, 2004, 04:44:05 PM
its not a rotary ... I know that much.

The only site I know of that has info on that car is in hungarian :rolleyes:
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on October 30, 2004, 10:52:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MikeLMR
its not a rotary ... I know that much.

Having researched it you will be aware that there are web sites that claim that it is, for example...
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/4546/vaz2110.html
http://www.autosoviet.altervista.org/main-english.htm  (click on Lada page 2).
Quote: the new Lada "110 Super Tourism" equipped with a two-rotor engine, for the National championships.
What leads you to believe that they are wrong?
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Carl on October 30, 2004, 11:06:56 PM
Just thought I would mention that the Russian secret police (KGB)liked the Lada with the rotary engine as it was fast for their uses.They also did a 3 rotor one too.The engine design was built originaly without a licence from Mazda and copied the 13b pretty well in most respects.That may have been adjusted since the 80\'s.
Kind regards
Carl
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 31, 2004, 11:29:04 AM
Norton, never seen much info on it before ... like I said the only website I had seen with info was in hungarian. Someone I know told me it had a version of the old vauxhall 2 litre 16v in it. I think he was getting mixed up with the Grp A rally version which was not rotary.

Looking at the hungarian site again they now have an english version of some of the site, that car appears to have as you say a twin rotor engine and a 6 speed samara gearbox. They are quite keen to point out that the only "import" part used in the car is the Bilstien shock absorbers. But there is still very little info ... limited to less than a paragraph in the history section.

http://www.celtia.hu/ladaklub/
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 31, 2004, 11:41:36 AM
as for unusual Ladas ... how about the revolution roadster. Not a rotary though
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on October 31, 2004, 04:44:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MikeLMR
as for unusual Ladas ... how about the revolution roadster. Not a rotary though

Pity eh?

Seems strange that information about the Russian saloon car championship rotary Ladas is so hard to come by, you would have thought that they would be proud of them and would want everyone to know what they have achieved.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 31, 2004, 04:53:54 PM
not sure why they are so quiet ... probably still a hangover from being so isolated due to the poltical situation ?
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 31, 2004, 05:20:18 PM
kinda relevant to this subject...the sectretary on the estate on which I live is a wonderfull scottish lady, who just happens to speak russian. So I am sure if anyone wanted anything translated badly enough she could be bribed with wine.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on November 01, 2004, 11:46:38 PM
OK! ply her with much wine (or whisky), sit her in front of the internet and see what she can find cos im bu**ered if i can find any decent info.
A word of warning though... it takes ages to clean puke out of a keyboard.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Carl on November 01, 2004, 11:58:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Norton
OK! ply her with much wine (or whisky), sit her in front of the internet and see what she can find cos im bu**ered if i can find any decent info.
A word of warning though... it takes ages to clean puke out of a keyboard.


Don\'t forget,she is Russian so is probably used to it!!
Kind regards
Carl
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on November 02, 2004, 09:32:02 AM
Actually she is from the scottish east coast. So I guess she is just as capable with the wine:D
 But seriously, I could even maybe stretch to a fax number(by phone ) and peeps could maybe send them to her at the castle where she works.?!?
 I\'ll ask next time i see her.
 cheers all.
Title: hsfkgdjd jkhjjhsdk ?? jldwy,;vwhsjs !! hjuiv ?
Post by: Norton on November 03, 2004, 12:22:15 AM
Heres a few links...
http://www.motorsport.ru/cgi-bin/kernel.pl?open=-1&run=54
http://www.tmsport.ru/index.shtml
http://www.torgmash.volga.ru/
http://www.nr.spb.ru/en/paddok/index.php
http://www.kamaz.ru/sport/russian/index.htm  
Dont understand a word of it!
I have found a pic of a 2004 spec car though and it appears to have \'2.0GTI\' (i.e. Opel engine) on the back, so maybe they dont use the Rotary anymore (??).
Or is it cos this is \'only\' a Tourism class car, not the Super Tourism class ?? Do those classes still exist ?? My brain hurts...
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on November 04, 2004, 02:55:43 PM
hi, just spoke to my russian speaking scottish friend who is up for some translating. PM me if interested and I can put her in touch with interested parties. Dont know how much to translate  say an a4 size page. As i said i can put you in touch. I am not after comision and am in no way going into the translating buisness.
  ( just to make sure the moderators dont think I am advertising a buisness.)
  thanks. michael.
Title: Lada Rotary Racing
Post by: Norton on November 05, 2004, 09:51:36 PM
Just received this e-mail...

Hi Derek,
Yes, you\'re correct, that car was prepared for Russian  supertouring Cars Championship or RSTCC. Car races for few years in the end of 90\'s. Car was prepared by works team and raced by works driver Boris Maslov. If I\'m not mistaken it was a running prototype for special VAZ division that was in charge for Rotary engine development and was in someway linked with production of rotary engines that was fitted in the special version of VAZ cars, like those for police, etc... I\'m not certain if VAZ currently produce cars with Rotary engines that are available to public. Few years ago there was rumours that factory is gearing towards selling their first rotary engined cars in 2004 but nothing was produced and sold. Also there was rumours that Rotary Engine Development group was dismissed. I\'m not really connected with car making world, i\'m more of motor person but will try to find it out next week.
As for technical specification on that car, you can find it below.
Length - 4250
Width - 1780
Height - 1350
Full mass - 960
Top speed - 240 km/h (150 mph)
0-100 km/h - 6sec (0-62 mph)
Engine
Type - Rotary VAZ 415
# of Sections - 2 (rotors)
Displacement - 1308
Compression ratio - 9,4
Power, hp/rpm - 190/8500
Torque, Nm/rpm - 196.2/4500
Fuel feed - Injection, controlled by Janvar 4-1 ECU
Gearbox
Gears - 6
Type - Dogbox
Max BHP - 250
Car features stiff LSD and a typical formula type of suspension with triangle arms and was fitted with Bilstein
shocks
Best regards,
G. Golyshev

Top geezer eh!!! :D
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on November 06, 2004, 06:19:13 PM
cool:cool
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on October 08, 2005, 11:54:11 PM
Just learned that Lada are entering the World Touring Car Championships from 2006... sadly NOT using rotary power.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Spectre26 on October 11, 2005, 11:36:53 AM
LOL that is farrr too coincidental. On a long trip heading back to gatwick from norich. We joked about adding a V6 badge to my RX8 and seeing how many of the local chavs would actually believe it had a V6. Then my friend added why not remove your Mazda badge and place a Lada badge on it, rotary powered Lada we both said as we both laughed... And now i\'m reading this post :rolleyes: lol
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: deanflowers on October 11, 2005, 01:11:28 PM
i have rallied 3 lada rivas and they are literally bomb proof,

1 was a 1.3 standard engined one with a few bits

2 was the 1.5 again standard engine but with lots of mkII escort bits on

3 was a fitted with a lotus twin cam which was quite entertaining, had lightened doors etc on it all were really good.

we tend to do night rallies wit ha mixture of forest and tarmac.

the most we ever gave for one was the N plate 8,000 miles from new riva costing a total of £80 with tax and MOT. :)
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 11, 2005, 05:21:35 PM
Rallying a Lada Riva ?!? you must be mad  :D

We have been known to do "one or two" road rallies in Lada\'s ;)
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: travellinbob on October 11, 2005, 07:11:15 PM
Which one is you Mike?
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: MikeLMR on October 12, 2005, 11:56:10 AM
the daft bugger posing for the camera in the passenger seat :)
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: deanflowers on October 12, 2005, 12:07:28 PM
i will have to post a pic now of lada on on drift, will scan it in laters
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on December 14, 2006, 12:37:14 AM
Quote from: MikeLMR
as for unusual Ladas ... how about the revolution roadster. Not a rotary though


But this Lada Revolution Roadster IS powered by a Lada Rotary engine!!!!!...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G92jhdrbhs&NR

If you watch it to the end you will see the car being driven up and down a Russian Dual-Carriageway. I think the wankel may have been retro fitted though, it seems to belong to a company who are in to rotaries. Another video from them on You Tube shows their stand at a car show with a couple of FD\'s on display.
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: oldone on December 14, 2006, 12:55:42 AM
Thats a good looking hybrid.......any links to their homepage or mor info on the project ??????
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Norton on December 14, 2006, 01:34:46 AM
http://photofile.ru/users/caesar/1126080/
http://photofile.ru/users/caesar/1406804/30532020/
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: Iwan on December 14, 2006, 03:16:26 PM
I know only. that the last version of Lada Rotary was making 140 hp, not 190 as mentioned on previos post.
Lada is into Rotary\'s for years now, but looks like them copy much from Mazda and this is probably the reason, them never make it avaliable for public. Russians are not chinese, so them copy but them ask before them sell something.

This is right, KGB was using Rotary\'s in there cars. Russian university did teached the engine engeneers for Rotary like to my father back in 1970.

by the way, if you need something translated, let me know.

REgards
Iwan
Title: rotary lada??
Post by: rotary emotions on December 20, 2006, 06:39:06 PM
They actually copied NSU-rotaries before going Mazda... Mainly for Eastern Germany (Trabant/Wartburg...) they developed NSU-copies, also used by Lada in Russia. Later they started to copy Mazda, so if you have good connections you might be able to get some 13B housings "Made in Russia" :D
Title: Re: rotary lada??
Post by: re japi on August 05, 2015, 04:16:35 PM
Just found this. Some of you might know that I have been tracking down rotary Lada from russia. Also I have been doing lots of research. I have a Lada enthusiast friend who has contact in russia. He said that all of them are basically gone, cause it was "illegal for civilians" to own them.

First, that wtcc Lada 110 is basically Opel. They was going to put rotary in it...

But russians stopped rotary research and production 2002...

Then, there is some info about some of them:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21018 (1978) — first series rotary engine modification for Soviet police & KGB with one-rotor 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS) VAZ-311 Wankel engine with electronic ignition and twin-electrode sparking plugs.[26] It also featured a downdraft carburettor, with different jet sizes to the 2101, and two-stage aircleaner.[27] Presented to the public by 1982. Only 250 built.[28] Engine durability was an issue, wearing out at just 20,000 km (12,000 mi).

Lada 21059 - Debut 1980 as a small scale spetsmodifikatsiya for the traffic police, the Interior Ministry and the KGB with 120 hp (89 kW; 120 PS) 186 N·m (137 ft·lbf) two-rotor 1,300 cc (80 cu in) VAZ-411M or (slightly larger displacement) 140 hp (100 kW; 140 PS) VAZ-4132 Wankel engine (which both featured a 9.4:1 compression ratio) and four-speed manual transmission. Capable of 112 mph (180 km/h) and 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) in nine seconds. Priced at 52,000 rubles.

 Lada 21079 Debut 1982, fitted with 120 hp (89 kW; 120 PS) two-rotor 1,300 cc (80 cu in) VAZ-411M or (slightly larger displacement) 140 hp (100 kW; 140 PS) VAZ-4132 Wankel engine (which both featured a 9.4:1 compression ratio) and five-speed manual transmission. Capable of 112 mph (180 km/h) and 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) in nine seconds. Priced at 58,000 rubles. Originally created for the needs of federal agencies: the traffic police, the Interior Ministry and KGB.

Small numbers of Lada rally cars were built with 150 hp (110 kW; 150 PS) Wankel engines, fitted with a pair of Weber DCOE twin-choke carburettors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is that link: http://cp_www.tripod.com/rotary/pg07.htm Here is another interesting link: http://www.autosoviet.altervista.org/main-english.htm

Seems that I might be able to get engine, but seems like impossible to get full car or papers/vin...
However, if I get that engine, is some one willing to buy it? Cause I dont need it ;)

Cheers
Japi